Question for Teachers at Poor Performing Schools

I think there is a lot more to it than just parenting. You have to consider economics/ poverty, hunger, race, percentage of students with ESL, percentage of students with IEP's, broken families, experience of the teaching staff, administration, emphasis on physical health, teaching to the test vs. teaching to life, and many other factors. That "puddle" is made of lots of drops of rain.

True. Teachers at poor performing schools are just as good as (obviously it varies person to person) as those at better schools. There are many factors, but I would agree that most of the variation comes from the families/incoming student population.
Just goes to show how all this pressure on teachers to perform may be misplaced.

I worked at a poor performing school as well and it is really hard to have that stigma when we worked so hard! But, I hear you...as a parent I'd probably choose the other one as well. Yes, there are a lot of factors that go into it, but I still stick with parenting as the primary reason. I had a wide range of parent involvment over the years and I had one little girl whose house did not have a floor, literally it was dirt, I went there on more than one occassion, and she had the most attentive parent. I know this girl didn't eat really well but she was well loved and her mother made her daughter and her school work her priority. So even though she was fighting lots of factors, her mom helped her with school and that was what made a difference. Each kid who had at least one involved parent (even if they worked full time) did better in school. They may not have been "the smartest" or gotten the best grades but they had a work ethic, did their homework, and had mostly good behavior.

Our elementary school, middle school and high school are all considered excellent.

At one point the middle school was rated low performing.. Unfortunately immediately the parents from our elementary school started sending their children to private schools or transferring to other middles schools.

The reason the ratings dropped? Because our middle school that year was sent a large group of students from another part of the district to help this other low performing middle school get them back on track.. To give you an idea.. most of these new middle school students did not even know how to use a ruler!

The campus did a great job but once the scores came back, they did not meet the percentage in one group of kids and were rated low performing.

We tried to explain to parents "YOUR" children are accelerated learners. They will always be accelerated. They will have the studies, the courses and the teachers they need to continue to learn at THEIR pace.

Other students will also have the teachers, the studies and the courses THEY need.

It is so hard to get parents to understand this.. Instead we would hear. They were worried about their children being with THOSE students. Like it was catching to be poor, and undereducated. Drove me crazy..

The middle school is still trying to recover from this.. This is the middle school our daughter and her friends all attended and these students are at some of the best colleges and Universities around the country.. The few that have stuck through it with this middle school are finding we were not lying. This is a dedicated school to ALL types of students. The kicker is that at our neighborhood high school, The Valedictorian is always also a graduate of this "low performing" middle school.

I never listen to labels of a school. You need to go in and see what it is all about.

I believe in supporting the neighborhood schools. They need our help. They can fail and be closed because of a lack of students from the neighborhood. Then property values go down. Parents end up having to travel to another part of town out of their own neighborhoods. It splits communities.

also believe as parents we need to do what is best for our own children, but you need to make sure you have all of the facts. The best way to find out is to go in yourself and find out what the facts are.

My friend is a social worker at a school in a "bad area". It's urban, but it's small. Many of the kids come to school and they didn't eat since the day before. The parents are neglectful, substance abusers, or competely ill-equiped to be parents. Not all the parents are bad but they live in a community where they live in poverty but have smart phones and other status symbols. They look down upon studying although being success is revered. I think a lot of it is not what happens at school but what the kids come home to both in their family and in their community.

My friend teaches at a "poor performing" school.
Just a little ways away, there is another school, that is much better in performance. Both public schools.
But between both schools, the demographics and the population attending the schools, are very different. And as Christi below said: there are MANY factors, that affect a school and its performance.
It is NOT just parenting.
It is a very complicated mix, of factors.

Hell yes the student population can be that different. I'll give poverty a big portion of it but it also comes down to parenting, If kids aren't parented, never taught by mom not to take things away from others, never taught by dad (if there is one) that you follow the rules ( of traffic, of the country) then you have no idea of how to act in a school, then when the teachers try to teach these skills the parents argue and fight and disrespect them then I don't think it's fair to expect any one to perform miracles.

I've heard there is also subgroups of different ethnic, specialneeds, type things that can mainpulate how test scores look. If you have so many, say ESL kids, then they are required to perform just as well as others, but if you have under a certain limit of those kids their scores are not counted. Can anyone confirm this, i'm not sure i totally trust the person that told me this.

Hi Lisa,
I am a teacher in a low performing district. I work VERY hard and have some GREAT students. We use the SAME curriculum as the "rich" districts that surround us. We design our lessons according to the state (and now national) standards. We attend multiple workshops and professional development classes per year. When I speak to friends that teach in the "good"districts around me they are astounded by how much extra stuff I have to do compared to them. So.... one would wonder then WHY is my district "failing"?
It is not so much that the population is different, as the culture. By culture I don't mean ethnically, I mean attitude toward school, authority and life in general. The students that I have that have supportive parents, both toward their schooling and toward me, do well. The ones that have parents that don't support me, or even work against me, have a more difficult time.
Now, I am NOT saying that they can't be taught or that I don't try, but it can be very overwhelming. In other districts I have talked to friends that have 2-3 emotionally needy kids in their classes. I have MUCH more than that. And often the kids don't even realize what it is that they need, so they fight against me trying to reach them.
I teach in an upper elementary grade. Many of my students leave the district after elementary school. They come back and they are doing fine in the new districts that they attend. This tells me that they ARE on par with their peers. It is very frustrating that they leave though and then when testing (like the MEAP) comes around they are not here to have their score counted with the rest of the kids that I taught.
Many of our kids DO come to school behind already. Our kindergarten teachers are playing "catch up" from Day 1. Again, not ALL of them, but a much higher percent than other districts. This is what I wish the politicians would understand. It is not fair to judge two teachers the same when one gets kids that know all their letters and sounds and have 'life experiences" while the other teacher is getting a child that doesn't know colors, how to count past 5 or how to spell his/her name.
I want to say, too, that I send my child to a school in my district. I KNOW that the teachers are great, even if they don't look like it on paper. I KNOW that he is receiving a challenging curriculum. The reason I don't want to send him to a School of Choice in another district is that I don't feel it is right. I don't pay taxes in the other district and don't feel o.k. taking advantage of the homeowners there. I also get frustrated when I know that I have neighbors that will complain about the district we live in, but then will not pass anything to help the district out when they vote. They say, "Well, I don't send MY kids there, so why should I increase my taxes?", but then they brag about all of the great things going on at their children's school.
It begins at home. I can only do so much when a child misses at least one day of school per week, the parents let them stay up till all hours of the night, the parents don't insist that their kid does homework and refuses to come in to meet with me. I try to make up for it and be the supporter that so many of the kids need, but I am only one person.

It starts at home and ends with a grade for the schools. Kids come to school unprepared to learn, they move schools several times a year, they miss a lot of school and in the end there is only so much a teacher can do but the school is judged on the scores.

Parents who live in the area of poor performing schools who care and can do something do what you do, they move their kids to better performing schools. What it leaves is a school of kids who don't have those chances. Sometimes it is because the parents don't know any better or because they are so distract by living but in the end the kids suffer.

A student with good support and values education can succeed in almost any school but it is hard.

Also, keep in mind, Waiting for Superman follows involved families who take charge of their kids education and know the system. What about the families who are not like that? Also, there are some amazing public schools and so really bad charter schools. It is not always black and white with what is good and bad.

I really want to thank JL for the link to Waiting for Superman. I just watched the whole thing- it was EXCELLENT!!!!.
I'm going to go out and buy the DVD and lend it to everyone I know!! :)
Thanks again,
L.

It's definitely a combination of factors:

1. Resources in the area (tax base) - In addition to a high number of people who may not be paying taxes, do you know that by sending your child to another school, you are requiring the local school to pay for her to go thereby pulling even more of their resources? This was what I didn't realize about vouchers....

2. Readiness level upon entering school - this is pretty huge. Never underestimate the power of your involvement in preparing your child (physically, academically, socially) for school!

3. Teacher salary - Is it competitive? Are they attracting (and keeping) the best teachers?

4. Student intervention programs - what supports do they have in place to assist students with planning, behavior, and academic challenges?

The short answer is, yes, schools can vary widely based on all of the above and more! As a teacher, I want to support the local schools, but as a parent, I feel vehemently that I want to be able to give my child the best opportunity I can in the best in environment for him, so I understand your choice. It's just a shame that things aren't more equal in schools so all kids can have the same chance at success.

It's easy to blame parenting, poverty, and the make up of a neighborhood. Watch this documentary...it explains everything far more objectively IMO.

Trailers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKGNmvhqxzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6AfN5EiUIg

Movie: There are 11 parts. This is the link to part 1 and it will lead you to the rest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEOOCTmR-k

Some of it is the population. My SD's elementary school serves an area with a lot of ESL kids. If you are still learning English, you are not going to score as well as kids whose native language is English. The staff are great. The school is excellent, IMO. But if you only looked at the test scores you'd wonder what kind of school it was. My SD attended from 1-5th grade and is now in AP and Honors classes in HS.

The school population from place to place can be VERY different. Yes, there are rotten schools, but I feel that you have to go to the school, talk to other parents, and talk to the staff and not just go by test scores. Some of those high-ranking schools also spend months teaching to test. Is that much better?

If I felt that the school could not meet my DD's needs, I would not consider it for her in a couple of years. Everyone needs to make their own choices. But you asked why one school could be so low so close to one that was so high. That's one reason.

I agree with lots of answers already. In one area I worked that was very low-performing, TONS of it had to do with the area - the socio-economic status of the students in the school, the education level of the parents, the way the parents were raised ...... Without trying to be judgemental about race or anything -- we had a few children tell their teacher "My M. say I ain't got to listen to you because you white." We had children throw their chairs across the room in anger of being there. The area can be different just blocks away. But I agree with Amy in that some schools might attract and keep the best teachers. In this school I've referred to, we tried so hard. We had great team-work. We did all we could and had great morale amongst teachers and with some parents.So it might depend on the way the teachers at the school nearest you are treated - do they hate their job? Do they have incentive to try harder? Tough situation to know for sure, as there are so many factors and so many are un-known.

@VM's comment about populations and test results: It may vary by state. but in Texas, VM is right - some scores don't count towards their overall school rating. ie: In the same school I reference above, perhaps 1% of our student population was 'white' and in order for that sub-group population to have their test scores count, we needed to have 5% or greater. So - every white kid in that school - their score didn't count. And because we were a bilingual campus, some white children were specifically sent TO that school by their parents so they could be in our dual lanugage program. Sucks - their amazing scores didn't count for our school. They often did very very good on their state exams.

I've worked in "low performing schools" (thank you federal government for your labels) my entire career.

In my classroom, all students are held to high standards. I expect them to behave, learn, and excel. I always have been that way.

Do not base anything on test scores. GO to the school, visit it often if you must. Speak with the principal and other staff. If the school is having a fun fair, or some type of event, like a play, go to it.

Do not watch documentaries about low performing schools, as these are not YOUR school.

Recently, we moved to a new town. I moved here because the public school system is outstanding. The school my daughter now attends is considered "low performing" and a Title I school. However, it is phenomenal. The entire staff is dedicated to providing excellent learning experiences to each child. The neighborhood is involved in the school's activities. They are using the most current curriculum and technologies. I feel 100% confident that my child will excel at this school, no matter what ONE test scores says.