Potty Training Nightmare - Topeka,KS

Wow. you take things away from him when he doesn't poop in the toilet?

You should never use any form of discipline when potty training, that just creates power struggles.

I like what J. K wrote. It's time to just let him have accidents and make it his responsibility. No rewards, no consequences. Soiled clothes and the mess is consequence enough.

You need to step back, find zombie mommy, and show no reactions.Keep you words simple, "you had an accident? I'm sorry, next time you will get it all in the potty." YOU need to emotional pull back here. And please, please get rid of the rewards and consequences. You didn't use these things when he learned to walk, and potting isn't much different.

So seriously, tell him that he is a big boy and totally responsible for his pee and poop from this point forward. Then just let go and give him time.

first of all, you can not really count most of that time because at 10 months he is simply too young, so don't make him feel like he has been trying for 2 years and failing. Next, ask him why he does not want to poop in the potty. Many kids are scared to poop in the potty so ask him why, and if it is fear walk him through his fears. Is he in undies now? If not, take away all the diapers unless he needs them at night, but no diapers for day wear.

Kids can control 3 things, eating, sleeping and potty training. This is a control issue between you two and the only way you can win is to let go. He gets lots of attention for not going on the potty, and I would stop giving it to him.

I would not put him in anything but underwear. No diapers and no pull-ups. If you want to give him notice then you can pick a date on the calendar and say "Joe, July 20th is the day that 4 year old boys no longer wear pull-ups, so after that day we won't be wearing those anymore." You can tell him what to expect... "Joe I know that you're ready to wear big boy underwear. So from now on if (not when) you have an accident you'll be in charge of cleaning that up yourself, because that's what big boys do." Then when he soils himself he gets to clean it up and you repsond kindly, but matter of fact..."Oh, Joey, it looks as though you didn't make it to the potty this time. Go in the bathroom and take off your pants and put on some clean ones." If he doesn't know how to do this, show him one time how to wipe himself up and where to put the spoiled clothes and then let him do it. This will probably be met with protest of " I can't do this!" to which you answer... " you sound frustrated, and I know that you can do it. It just takes some practice. Be sure to wash your hand when you're done." and walk out of the bathroom. There will probably be more protesting and again you answer with empathic matter of fact tones. " I hear you. But when we have an accident, we have to clean it up."

Keep your conversations short, and don't argue with him or give in and "do it for him this time." He needs to realize that this behavior no longer gets a reaction from you and it just ends up being more work for him. As soon as he puts together that simply going in the potty takes LESS time and trouble for him he will start doing it. This is a behavior. He's absolutely ready and able to do it on his own. Don't buy him treats, don't do charts... he's beyond that and the thing that will work is natural consequences. Do praise him for going in the potty, but don't be over the top. "That's great Joey! I bet you're so proud of yourself!! And look, now you have more time to play!"

Don't worry Momma.... he won't go to high school in diapers. Good luck!

I think the problem now is that you're jumping through flaming hoops to convince him this is something he wants to do. You need to shift your thinking. Potty training isn't some Freudian, crazy thing. It's simply teaching a young child a new skill. Kind of like how you taught him to put his shoes on, or eat with a fork. That's all it is! And for him, IT IS NOT OPTIONAL. He's almost 4. Plenty old enough to be out of diapers. Tomorrow, throw the diapers away. From here on out, he's naked from the waist down, or in underwear. No need to talk it to death or convince him - just tell it like it is, and keep it short and sweet. Have him go sit on the potty - feign complete disinterest in what he chooses to do while sitting there (unless he poops or pees, then celebrate like crazy!). My older daughter tried to hold her poop in when I KNEW she had to go - so I just held her on the potty until she went. It may sound mean, but she had to go, needed to go, and I was sick of her drama. She's almost 10 years old now and is not scarred for life, so do what you have to do, mama! If he has an accident, have him help clean it up in a calm way, and then tell him he will make it to the potty next time. Then, help make sure he does. Stick with it, calmly. Remember that you are his teacher in this. It does not have to be a power struggle, just a teaching opportunity. You can do this!!

First and foremost, see your pediatrician about a condition called encopresis. See: http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/WELCOME/conditions/encopre...

I think that's what is going on here. It's very common and is basically a severe case of constipation. I talk a bit about what you can do in the interim of seeing a doctor, later in the post.

Aside from this, I gather a couple of things here.

One, from what you write it sounds like you often send him off on his own alot and expect him to go on his own volition versus physically walking him to the bathroom and waiting with him as he goes. Just because people are in a bathroom and he can watch them go, doesn't guarantee he'll follow suit. With potty training, you MUST be there with them and go through all of the motions with them everytime. This must go on for at least a good 6 months or until you KNOW for certain they can read their body cues on their own and are motivated to get on the potty unassisted.

Since you say you know his body clock fairly well (the appproximate times he might go) physically walk him to the potty at those times and make him sit on the potty for at least 10 minutes whether he "thinks" he needs to go or not. Doing this first thing upon waking and shortly after meals is a good time to do this, as they're natural times when he may need to go. Keep books near the toilet or some quiet activity nearby to motivate him to relax and stay seated for an entire 10 minutes. Whether he goes or not, reward him "verbally" with a "good job for trying." No treats.

Some experts recommend getting a timer or something like this potty watch from One Step Ahead http://www.pottytimeinc.com/ if you have a hard time remembering to get him to the potty on a schedule or have trouble motivating him. Put it on the watch or timer that he needs to go. For instance, he's playing and doesn't want to leave what he's doing...but the watch beeps or the timer rings (get a cute one that looks like an animal and give it a name) say "The cow timer says it's time to head to the potty," or "The potty watch is beeping, time for a potty break." And the BOTH of you go and sit for 10 minutes whether he needs to go or not. Over time, he WILL eventually go and then you can reward him with a sticker and high five. The potty watch has intervals for every half hour, every hour, and every two hours. In the beginning you want to block a weekend and set it for every half hour and eventually space it as he begins to develop a regular schedule naturally. You can follow this protocol with the kitchen timer too. Just don't forget to reset it right away so time doesn't get away from you. The watch does this automatically, so you don't have to worry about resetting it. The other good thing about the watch is, if you're away from home it's still on the job and you know when to get near a potty so you can stay on schedule.

Often kids like the watch or timer so much, they won't need much convincing to go running to the bathroom. Make it fun and very game-like. Make jokes and make it laid back. The key is routine and timing.

Secondly, you say he's complaining of pain and holding it to continue with other activities. Sounds like he's severely constipated. It is very difficult to potty train a constipated child. Talk with your pediatrician about Miralax or try an over the counter stool softner, make sure he drinks more water and 100 percent fruit juice (apple or prune is good) which softens stools, and try more fiber and grain in the diet (be watchful though, those with sensitive tummies can actually get worse with too much fiber and then soft cooked fruits and veggies are the better way to go) to help make going to the bathroom easier. He may have bathroom issues for a while until the constipation is resolved. Because up until now it has been painful, he may be fearful for a while to try to go too. Products make going a "breeze" and may help him regain confidence after awhile. Just take your time and talk with your doctor about this before starting any stool softner. But you will probably find after talking with the doctor and going this route, your problem will be solved.

Last, DO NOT punish your child with cold showers or overindulge them with big ticket presents when potty training. You're only creating unnecessary problems that will derail any efforts to get him on track. It sends a bad message (the big gifts) and sets you up to be manipulated emotionally by him in the future. The cold showers are cruel and will make him resentful and resistent to working with you. This is what prisons used to do to punish people. Chances are very good he is just constipated and in pain, not trying to make your life difficult. Just throw out his dirty pants if you don't want to clean them, or just take them away calmly and clean them with no emotional event or ordeal. Taking toys away is a big mistake. Avoid punishment when potty training. If you need to know why, read any parenting book that covers the topic. It's just the wrong way to approach things. You don't want power struggles to develop over this important stage in development. If you keep punishing him for something that is probably a mild medical issue, he will eventually use poop and potty to control you if he can. If he hasn't discovered it's a topic that pushes your buttons and gets you mad, he eventually will, and will go there when there is something he really is mad about to get the point across to you. Trust me, no punishment. Just don't go there at all.

A small reward (a matchbox car or popsicle) at the end of the whole program is plenty. Stickers are fine too. I have found a verbal "way to go" and lots of hugs the best reward! Who doesn't like getting hugs when they please their mommy for doing a grown up thing?

Hope this helps.

Tough one, he clearly knows what you expect of him so it sounds as if this is turning into a power struggle. Which you will not win, cause you can not force them to use the potty.

My youngest was challenging in the sense that she wanted to pee on or in anything that wasn't her potty.

A few questions, what happens when he does have an accident? Do you clean him up or is he responsible for himself? At this stage he should be cleaning himself up and cleaning his underwear.

How are is poop's, are they normal in consistency? Is/has he been constipated? I know with my 5th child constipation created a bit of havoc with getting him to use the potty for poop's..pee was terrific.

I think, if I was in your shoes I would back off a little and hand the control over to him. All of the control, from when he goes to cleaning himself up. Maybe by not turning this into a battle of wills he will cave and do what he knows he needs to do.

I would talk to the pediatrician about not pooping and holding it in for so many days. My daughter was having some problems and my doc said that once it hurts to go then they don't want to go and so they keep holding it in. If this has been the case, then you might need to try a laxative like Miralax or the generic. My dr said 2 doses a day for 2 weeks until she is used to it just sliding out, (this part can get messy) so that it doesn't hurt anymore. They need to be reconditioned that pooping doesn't hurt.
Also, does he stand to pee? We went through 4 potty chairs before we got the $5 one from Ikea that she picked out; apparently the other ones pinched her and the toilet was scary because its big and loud. Try talking to him about it. But, I think the miralax is a good idea that I would start with.

I don't mean this in any demeaning way to you, but I don't understand why parents are hesitant to "push" their little ones into potty training. To me if they showed the signs I helped them to meet their goal of being trained, just like with eating solids, walking, talking, whatever the milestone. To me it leads them towards becoming the independent beings we raise them to be, I don't consider it pushing as much as encouraging and staying consistent until they meet the goal.

You son thinks he's outsmarting you, in reality he's actually setting himself up for major problems that could lead to encopresis, a road no one wants to go down. Take a look at this, my "go to" site for "poop refusers", which my guy was, too.
http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/pottytrainingrefusals.htm

The site will guide you through the process of getting your son trained, is specifically geared towards the child over 3 who is not potty trained, has a wealth of information to guide you to guide him. If it's any encouragement to you know that my guy, a master poop holder (he could hold it for a week) was literally running to poop on the potty within a little over a day of me implementing one of the key ideas I gleaned from the site, the power incentive.

Be the parent and let him know he's not, hang in there, you CAN do this!

The biggest thing that jump-started my DD's potty training was when I would change her diaper in the bathroom... I would have her sit on the potty while I cleaned up her diaper and got a new one ready. (I would do it really slowly, so that she would have to sit there for a minute or so...)

I also watched really closely, so that every time I thought she had to go, or immediately after she did, I could get her on that potty.

She is all but trained now... but she did have a speech therapist come by today. She was asking questions about her life progress (this was her first visit to the house, so she had to go over everything...), and we were talking about potty training. I mentioned that my DD had a block about pooping on the potty, and HER advice (even though we are already past the block... lol.) was to have her watch us dump her poop in the toilet. Even if it's from a diaper, actually watching THEIR poop go in there helps them make that connection.

Maybe if you have HIM clean up his own mess when he has an accident (or help at least...) and it will be too much of a fuss for him, and he will start using the potty just to make life easier?

I would have suggested underwear only and make him clean up after himself, but you are already doing that and it isn't working.

I actually took a different approach with one of mine. He was clearly holding the poop in because he didn't want to go poop on the potty. He was doing well at pee on the potty and even surprisingly well at overnight dryness.

My son already had constipation type issues with harder poops. So I didn't want to have him withhold and make things worse. One time he threw up and I believe it was from eating his regular amount of food but holding his poops. So I started letting him poop in a diaper. He would say when he wanted to go and we'd put on a diaper. If he had it on more than 10-15 minutes, we'd take it off and say try again later. Then I switched to him being able to wear a diaper, but he had to stay in the bathroom to do it. I was also giving him some Miralax on a daily basis after discussing the situation with the pediatrician. After he got the hang of pooping in the diaper in the bathroom and the Miralax was making his stools soft and hard to hold in, I decided to push for sitting on the toilet with the diaper on. It turns out that he didn't even need that step. He would push back sometimes and ask for a diaper, but I'd say no.

I know a lot of people tend to do the opposite and push for underwear, but in my case, the problems associated with withholding led me to giving in to a gentler approach. I was also fortunate that he never regressed to peeing in the diaper when he had it on. He would still pee in the potty.

I also had a drawer with toys in it. If he poops in the potty, he gets to pick a toy. Then we have an end goal of pooping 10 times in a row, whereupon he gets a special prize, which is a roadster tricycle. Then I can phase out the drawer.

I'm by no means a potty expert and I have only potty trained 2 girls, neither of whom had the poop issue. But what comes to mind is that you need to make it really inconvenient for him to not poop in the toilet... like, he has to do the cleaning up like someone else mentioned. Not in a punishment or shaming way, just a matter-of-fact, "natural consequence" kind of way. You obviously need to accompany and guide him but he is with you every step of the way "OK now we need to take your undies over to the sink.... blah blah blah now we wash our hands..." etc etc. Make this cleanup procedure as slow and excruciatingly inconvenient as possible. Stop begging him, negotiating, bribing, dangling things over his head. Just let it be, make it super inconvenient every time he soils his undies, and he will eventually decide it is better for him to just get on the pot and go and be done with it.

You are using only undies right? Diapers or "training pants" are really not an option anymore I would say (but my training philosophy is once you start, the diapers go and you don't look back... not everyone does that though).

Or the flip side of the coin, what someone else said, just give up and be over it. No one ever went to high school still pooping their pants (love that, so true! Or mostly true anyway). My sister had this problem with her daughter and just put a diaper on her when she had to poo. Eventually she got over it on her own too.

Have you offered him any books to look at/read while he is on the potty? You could make it part of a routine that 15 minutes after dinner, or every morning 30 minutes after breakfast (or whatever) that he sits on the potty and looks at a book. There are age appropriate books about going potty that he could look at, too.

Aside from trying yet another way to try to encourage him, what about trying reverse psychology on him? Just, matter of factly (not condescendingly or meanly or even disappointedly), tell him that he is not allowed to use the potty. If he is doing well with the peeing, then maybe allow that, but he is NOT to sit on the potty to poop. He is only to poop in a diaper, and when he is done, he is to tell you so you can supervise what he does with it after (which would be have him dump it into the toilet).

I don't know if it will help (doesn't seem like it could hurt), but we all know kids are more attracted to forbidden fruit. And he currently doesn't want to do it anyway, so it will take the pressure off of both him AND you.
An aside: as a "reward" for my kids, when they were potty training, the first one they ever earned, was to get to flush the handle!
I swear, I think my daughter went JUST so she could flush the handle.

I can absolutely sympathize with you. I had the very same issue with my 3 1/2 year old daughter. It was definitely a matter of will. I took her to the doctor and she did have hard poops so the doc put her on some softeners which reduced her fear of going on the potty. But, the only thing that really worked was for me to stop worrying so much about it. We took a "training" break for about two weeks. I let her go in her pull-up standing up, which is what she wanted to do. If she told me she needed a pull-up, I first asked if she wanted to try the potty, but that was it if she said no. Then, guess what? She decided that she was ready and has been doing it ever since. It was just like a magic switched flipped and it became HER idea. The break was something that we both needed and in the end, I think had a lot to do with her deciding she was ready. Because of her strong will, it needed to be her idea. Good luck. This is never easy with strong-willed kids. Do talk with your doctor to make sure it is not a medical issue. If not, take a break and then try again (but don't put so much pressure on yourself or your son).

I would back off a bit and tell him next week you will start over and then you be in charge. Not him. You can start from the beginning with a timer or since he already knows how just tell him it's time to go to potty and see that he does. If it's quiet and he's alone to relax he may go better. I know so many kids these days who are afraid to go and get constipated. Is it diet or something other and I think maybe diet would help even if it is something else. It would be good to do more fruits and if you have to talk to your doctor about Miralax SHORT term. I think this little boy has had potty training hanging over his head since he was 10 months old and that would make me confused. Kids rarely just go on their own. It's like anything else we teach them and train them to do. You say 'usually goes' or 'too busy' and that is where you come in to train him to go regardless of playing or anything else and that helps him learn when to go and to be sure and not rush. I would not do showers or make him clean it up or make it a punishment at all. He was not taught in the beginning that he has to go and so it's not his problem, even though he knows what to do. Start again, do it kindly and firmly and let him know this is the real thing. Do a reward at the end or a small thing when he does go poop, or whatever he likes to know he's doing well. It is a job for the parent more than for the child. At his age it should only take a few days to be done. Don't use anything but underwear, not pullups or other type of pants. He should be rewarded though as you say he 'doesn't care anymore'. He's given up and is very discouraged. Don't do a box he can pick out of but something you give him as a good job reward. I would not make him clean up his own messes as that seems like punishment at this point. Tell him 'next time you'll do better'.

Let it go. Keep him in regular underpants, make him deal with the underwear (I had a diaper bucket in the bathroom) and mess, then let it go.

This is a control issue ... and YOU don't have it. HE does. We had poop issues with my oldest son till he was almost 8. And his pediatrician said to not stress about it. He's never known of a kid who graduated from high school still pooping his pants. He was checked for any physical issues that might be leading to the pooping in his pants and when those were negative we went with the "he'll do it when he's ready".

Now we did have some consequences for the issue ... he couldn't go with his dad to the ball park when dad played softball and be bat boy/ball boy if he couldn't go to the bathroom properly.

Have you tried prune juice to help him poop when he's constipated?