Potty Training Advice for Older Child

Updated on April 23, 2009
C.G. asks from Pittsburgh, PA
14 answers

Hi! I am an older mom with a large family--several grown children and 2 "late-in-life" babies who are now ages 4 and 7. Our youngest son is not yet potty trained. I have many years of experience potty training children, but never have encountered one like our son! Being older, "wiser" parents, we have not put the same kinds of pressures on our younger children like we did on our older ones. We have allowed our little ones to develop at their own paces without pushing them to do things for which they are not developmentally ready. Our 7-yr-old was 3 1/2 before he was potty trained, and that was okay. Once he was ready, it came easily. Our "baby" is now almost 4 1/2 and is not interested in potty training! He is generally very laid back, outgoing, happy, self-assured, etc. And he has all the physiological readiness skills for being potty trained--dry when he wakes up in the morning, knows when he needs to go to the bathroom and goes off in a corner or another room to "do his business" in his pull-up in privacy, etc. However, when he sits on or stands in front of any kind of a potty, he won't allow his muscles to relax enough to pee! He can be completely filled up with liquid and hold it in for hours and will NOT go on a potty, but the minute he puts his pull-up on, he'll relax and go. We've tried all kinds of things--cheerios in the toilet for him to aim at (he loves the idea but simply won't relax enough to let it come!), communal peeing with big brother and/or Daddy (again, fun but no peeing!), giving him privacy in the bathroom to relax and do it on his own, etc. The one thing we have NOT done is to pressure him into going. To me that would be counter-productive. Part of me thinks that once he is ready, he'll just do it. There is no compelling reason why he needs to be potty trained until he's ready for kindergarten, which is over a year from now. So, what do you other moms think? I have encountered reluctant "poopers" but not reluctant "pee-ers"! Part of me thinks that he just enjoys being the baby of the big family with all of his many "parents." By the way, he is big enough that typical potty chairs are way too small, although he really enjoys sitting on them for fun. I've also allowed him to sit on or stand next to the potty with his pull-up on to try to help him relax, but to no avail. He is not distressed at all when he is on a potty--in fact, we will sometimes sit with him for long stretches of time, reading to him, singing songs, etc. so that hopefully he will eventually pee, and he enjoys himself a lot but never relaxes those muscles... Any ideas out there?!

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So What Happened?

I’m sure many of you are wondering what became of the 4½-yr-old un-potty-trained boy. Before I tell you how it ended, I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond. There were some excellent potty-training tips there, and much showing of support, and I appreciate all of you for trying to help out.

I also want to clarify some things, which I hope will help others when people write on this list in the future. First, and this is my fault, I did not make my request clear enough. What I really needed was to get some ideas from other moms about how to encourage my child to be able to relax his muscles when on the potty to let the pee out. The only person who really answered my question was the mom (Margie) who suggested I give him a special magazine to read when he was sitting on the pot to help him relax. Thank you for that suggestion! You’ll see in a moment how that suggestion paid off.

What I did not expect was the barrage of people analyzing my parenting skills and even one questioning my teaching skills! Thankfully, I am an experienced mom and teacher (and a very good one at that!), and all the analyses were more entertaining than offensive. I was more concerned about how other moms who are struggling with similar issues took the discussions. I received some emails privately from moms in similar situations who were too embarrassed about their late-potty-trainers to admit it to the group, and after some of the condescending responses I received, I can’t say I blame them!

So, before I tell you how it turned out, let me clarify a bit about my situation. I had lots and lots of potty-training experience prior to this last child. I do not view myself as an overly “permissive” parent, but I do believe in allowing children to reach milestones when they are both physiologically as well as developmentally ready. To push children into any task too soon, simply based upon a pre-set determination of when a child “typically” should master that goal, can be detrimental. Each child is different. I also had children who were potty trained before the age of two, but they were ready. And as for wanting my child to “stay a baby,” who in her right mind, even if she wants to keep her child little, wants to keep her child in diapers forever! I’ll be a grandmother soon enough, so there’s no practical need for me to try to keep any babies of my own around!  Also, I am not concerned about all of the “psychological damage” some suggested I might be inflicting on my child. I have raised many children quite beautifully and successfully—all our grown children are very well-adjusted and successful adults, and our 7-yr-old is beloved by all his teachers and fellow students. Outsiders feel the same about our 4-yr-old as well. So, based on my vast and successful experience with child-rearing and potty-training, I allowed our youngest to take the lead. This was not a power struggle, as some had suggested, because we never turned it into an issue to struggle about.

So, how did it turn out, you are all wondering? Beautifully! Most of you suggested techniques for potty-training we had either already tried with him or didn’t need to try. For instance, there were some great suggestions for how to encourage him to stay sitting on the pot, but that wasn’t an issue, because he could sit there happily for hours without doing a thing. And for those who suggested offering him treats or other incentives such as stickers for every time he peed, that was not an option, because he simply couldn’t figure out how to relax his muscles when sitting on the pot—so there was no peeing to reward. Also, he did not want to have a big fuss made over him, as other children often like. We also had already ditched the diapers and pull-ups. I knew that if he would just pee once in the potty, all would be well. So, when the mom suggested the thing about the magazine, I thought of something. We had already tried reading to him on the potty as well as allowing him to read on the potty before, but this time I went at it with a different twist. When it was time to have him sit on the potty (yes, I regularly put him there for mandatory potty time, which he didn’t mind a bit—he just never did anything!), I asked him if he would like to take a book or magazine with him when he went. I explained that lots of grown-ups, including Daddy, like to take a book with them into the bathroom because it helps them relax. He thought about it a minute, said, “no, thank you,” and then, when I asked him if he would like me to stay or leave, he said, “I’d like some privacy, please.” And that was that! A few minutes later, he figured out how to let those muscles relax, and he peed!!! He’s been independently using the potty ever since, and he has been completely dry ever since—day and night! For the past 2 days, any time he needs to go to the bathroom, he goes straight there without needing to be asked, takes off his pants and underwear, climbs onto the toilet, pees, flushes the toilet, puts his clothes back on, and washes and dries his hands--all by himself! This was by far the easiest potty-training experience we have ever had!

So—for all of you out there who are struggling with potty-training older children who think that somehow you have missed that “window of opportunity” or are worried about what others might think, relax. Your kid will be fine. You can try some of the excellent suggestions from the moms on this list, but please don’t be uptight about the situation! At no point did anyone in my son’s life make him feel bad because he wasn’t trained yet. It was simply a non-issue with us. Thankfully, my 4-yr-old son cannot yet read well enough to have read any of the responses to my question, and no one else in his life made an issue of it at all, so he was simply able to let us know when he was ready. I realize that not everyone has the luxury of allowing their children to "self-train." Some of you need to make sure your children are potty-trained before they go to pre-school, a special class, etc., so I am not at all saying that anyone else has to do it my way! The important lesson here is that each child is different and each family's circumstances are different, and there is no "one-size-fits-all" in the child development department!

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to respond, and hang in there all you moms who are still working on potty-training. For me, this chapter of my life is now over! Hooray! 

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R.J.

answers from Pittsburgh on

C.,
My original response is confusing the issue to others, so you have read it... that's good enough. Perhaps without my post, people can stop debating and just get on with giving you unbiased advise. My post was genuine and my experience... I feel disheartened that people HALF read it and then judged it. I too said to take away the pull-ups, but I suggested a different method in doing so that WORKED FOR MY SON. He is not scarred for having a patient mother, I can guarantee you that!

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J.Y.

answers from Philadelphia on

I have to agree with Denise & Ranita on this one - you need to stop providing your child with pull-up diapers! They are just an enabling crutch at this point. Simply tell your him that he's a "big boy", and big boys use the potty, not diapers. Then, you get rid of the ones in the house (literally, throw them out so they're NOT available), and do not buy anymore. Don't say anything more about the subject - make it a "non-issue". No pressure, you are simply not going to be part of the problem anymore. When it comes time to do his business, your child will have a choice to make on his own - use the potty, or soil his clothes. Don't get involved with that choice. If he chooses to soil his clothes, make it clear to him (in a kind, non-demeaning tone) that he is to help in the clean up process, and that you know he can do it and he'll do better using the potty next time. I'm sure there will be some accidents, so it's better if you do this on a weekend, or summer week, when you have no big plans outside the house. I'd also suggest using something that he desires as an incentive - maybe a trip to an amusement park, or whatever he really wants. I'm sorry if this method sounds harsh, but I don't view it that way. I have no problem with nudging my children toward good choices and helping them learn what they need to learn. I used this method with my daughter (who was "ready" and resisting), and it worked like a charm. Yes, there was a stressful moment for her when she had do go that first time, with no diaper. She screamed, but she got through it and potty trained in less than one week (after removing pull-ups)...and one year later, she's fine, no emotional scars. I don't believe that it's "pressuring" or causing anxiety to teach a child what they need to do. Does a momma bird "pressure" her chicks when she nudges them out of the nest to learn how to fly?!? Does anyone view it as causing them undue stress?!
Best wishes to you!

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S.P.

answers from Philadelphia on

Hi C.

I agree with the other Mom who has said ditch the pull ups! My son was 3 and I tried pull up with no success. So I had to stop and wait and then start all over again. Put him in underpants and a t-shirt and start a potty routine. He most likely won't like getting all wet when he has accidents. Give him a reward for going in the potty. I used a couple M&M's for peeing in the potty and a taffy for poop. If you still don't have success, I'd consult with your pediatrician. Good luck.

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L.P.

answers from Pittsburgh on

********* ADDITION TO MY RESPONSE *********

AWESOME RESULTS! Congrats on starting a new chapter!

I do see how many of us missed the mark with what you were asking - and you did spell it out pretty clearly. I think that most of us moms just immediately start searching our own databases for our experiences, and in that way, we tend to zone out on the specifics of what was asked, and just begin inserting our 2 cents!

I am glad, however, that you did manage to get something from your responses that helped, however much. It sounds like your little guy kind of figured it out on his own! Isn't that the way it always goes?? :)

Please give your son a big high-five for his accomplishment from all of us who were wishing him well!

******************************************

Hi C.~

I think you have received some good advice here. After reading your post, I was agreeing with you, feeling like kids shouldn't be pressured to potty train, they will simply do it when they are ready (my son kind of did - more on that in a minute)... I was also thinking that pressuring them is really nothing but counter-productive, and potentially adding to whatever anxiety they are already experiencing...

BUT, after reading your other responses, I have to agree, that at 4 1/2, it is probably time to get the show on the road... and view this as teaching a necessary life skill, rather than inflicting undue pressure and anxiety on our children. Perhaps we need to adjust what we are telling ourselves about the situation... I say "we" because my son, who turned 3 in January, is potty trained for pee, but not poop. He is willing to poop or try to poop on the potty 'sometimes', but is far more comfortable pooping in his pull-up. We have to catch him getting into the 'poop stance' and quickly redirect him to the toilet, and sometimes he's willing, and sometimes, he's not. That said, I agree that it may be time to do away with the pull-ups altogether, because it does seem they are enabling him, as with your son. And my son gets terribly upset when he poops in his big boy undies... and it seems to me that his getting upset is about disappointment in himself, as well as not wanting the poop on him. He is getting a little squeamish about that even with the pull-ups - he wants changed right away, and holds himself up out of the pull-up.

Taking the no-more-pull-ups approach will definitely be an inconvenience for a little while, with cleaning up pee and poop messes, but since your son is physiologically ready, maybe the process will be quick, and he will decide quickly that he doesn't want to deal with the whole pee/poop on his clothes and cleaning it up routine. I would just be sure to incorporate some kind of reward system to encourage him... as a teacher, I am sure you know that positive reinforcement is the best behavior modifier, whether it be much verbal praise, a sticker chart, etc... we used "potty prizes" for peeing on the potty when we were first getting into the swing of things... I stocked up on dollar (or less) toys and junk, basically, that my son would get for each successful trip to the potty. He responded well to it. I know it can be a little much, but after a short while, I stopped offering the prizes, and he forgot to ask... so they just phased out naturally.

Just a quick question... what do you do when you are out somewhere and your son poops and needs changed? We are always out and about and this is getting to be a real problem for me... My son is big for his age, 39 pounds and 39 inches tall... so needless to say, he has long outgrown the changing stations in restrooms... but we still use them!! UGH!! My son is my first and only child, so as a first time mom, I used to worry when he was just an infant that those things would hold him, and I always propped it up with my knee as I was changing him - one of my many circus/mother tricks - and now, I throw him up there and figure if the plaster starts cracking, well, maybe my son will get the idea that he is too big to be getting diapers changed!!! LOL :) Funny how we become desensitized to things!

Anyhow, you sound like a very insightful, creative mom, who is really doing all the right things... I just think you need to take the hard step for your son, and help him along with this first of many life lessons. Ditch the pull-ups... make it ceremonious, go buy a bunch of cool big boy undies (although you probably already have some), but this could be fun and encouraging for your son, and just go for it. Have him be more accountable for keeping himslef clean and dry, and maybe he will get tired of doing his diapering, just as you are...

I always pray that I will have the strength to make the hard choices for my son... and maybe this qualifies as one of those choices... In the grand scheme, I only hope they are all this easy, huh?

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU... Let us know what you decide and how it goes...

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D.B.

answers from Pittsburgh on

Ditch those pull-ups! My son (4) was the same way. We had a bye bye pull up party. That was that. We did no pull ups during the day at all. Only the overnight ones for a month. It took him all of 3 days to figure it out. Plan a long weekend at home and just do it. Take him shopping for fun underwear. Celebrate it!

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L.P.

answers from Philadelphia on

I am a former teacher also. My interest with parents who are permissive is do they realize the psychological and emotional damage inflicted on the children. Your child is ready to use a toilet if he/she can walk talk and does not have a medical problem. Please know your child will thank you for explaining that he should use the toilet now. Just tell him he is too old for diapers, explain that their are health concerns i.e. germs, and children 'his age' use the toilet. He already knows this. Stick to your guns and do not put diapers back on him. He will use the toilet if you and your family members are all encouraging and supportive of his new responsibility. I hope you will not take this as criticism. I understand how it is often hard for parents to give up their 'baby'. This is something you must do for him.

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D.P.

answers from Pittsburgh on

C.,
If it were me, I would stop the Pull Ups -- yesterday.
Are you sure it's "him" that enjoys being the baby of the family? Maybe you are reluctant to really break the Pull Up phase b/c it will mean the end of "babies" in your house? I don't mean to be harsh, but as his mom, you really need to step up and nudge this along in a positive way. I'd ditch the Pull Ups, make him a sticker reward chart & get going!

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J.C.

answers from Philadelphia on

I just got done potty training my son, 2.5. He was completely ready for potty training in all the same ways your own son is, but just plain refused to go. So one day, with the permission of his teacher, we put him in underpants. He didn't like being wet and having accidents. We had three days of accidents and it was over. Another idea is how it worked for my mom. When my brother was 3 he was refusing to potty train, despite being ready. However, he could only attend Vacation Bible School if was was potty trained and when my mom explained that, off came the diaper! He knew what to do all along, but didn't have any incentive. Hope this was a help :)

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R.H.

answers from Lancaster on

Well, it looks like you're getting all kinds of strains of thought here. What we did was let reality do the teaching. My son was determined not to do anything until he was 3. the night before his birthday we collected all the diapers in the house and he helped collet them. We put them in a big bag on the porch for the diaper fairy. the next morning, there were no diapers! just a bag of underwear and a small gift! from then on he was wearing his underwear and we never went back to diapers. We had messes for about 2 weeks, but he was responsible for always taking his soiled clothes to the laundry. He too had issues with relaxing but eventually he learned and once he got it, things went quickly. the whole process had to become his issue not mine.
I know one mom who finally said to her son, I'm done. If you want to potty train, you'll have to do it yourself and soon, sure enough he did it but only after she backed off. I think sometimes we have to get out of the way, because at 4 it can become a control issue for kids. good luck!

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R.S.

answers from Philadelphia on

I agree, it could be a control thing, but you should also get him checked out to make sure he isn't experiencing UTIs or anything like that...he might be reluctant to pee because it hurts! Which then starts the cycle all over again...anyway, i would wait and see what the pediatrician says before you take away the pull ups or anything. My DD was almost 4 before she was potty trained, but she "did it" in about 2 days (not at night, though...that took longer). So get some expert advice first!

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A.G.

answers from Reading on

I have a little girl who is 3 years and 8 months old and she has no desire to be potty trained. I tell her how wonderful going potty is and she just shakes her head and says "no thank you!"
I recently bought the potty training in one day kit. I'm hoping if we completely take away her diapers, she will be more compelled.
Best of luck with your son.

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B.J.

answers from Pittsburgh on

I think you know your child best...from what I would gather you already tried all of the appropriate strategies and now you are looking for something different to try. It is sooo easy for parents who had children train easy to give well intended advice. I would keep looking for people who have been through your particular situation and talk more with them. It's easy to say, "just throw them out"...but I am going to go out on a limb and guess you've already tried that approach. I think Rachel J's response about anxiety may be something to consider. And also, we "modern day" parents do create these late trained children. I don't think pull ups should even be sold, but since you've given them to him and started the cycle, it's not your child's fault he grew dependent upon them. So my advise is to proceed with a well thought out idea of what you are going to do.

I also think it's insulting for people to assume that you are keeping him in pullups to keep him a "baby". That's absurd, especially since you are on here seeking out alternative ideas to train an older child. Again, what's wrong with a patient plan? If it worked for the other mother... hmmm it may be worth considering the advise of a mother who's gone thru the same situation.

I just can't stand it when people get up on their high horses and talk about things they think they know about but haven't actually experienced!

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M.D.

answers from Allentown on

Have you tried a special kids magazine for him, that he only gets to read during potty time? My daughter (who will be 4 soon) has a hard time settling down long enough to relax and let pee or poop come out, but magazines have helped. I started with a small amount of enforced time, like 2-3 mintues, and if nothing happened, then she could get up. It was really a matter of distracting her enough to relax, so sometimes I'd talk to her, or we'd try and do some of the puzzles/stories/games in the magazine. Other times she'd sit and read by herself while I tried to ignore her and do something nearby, so I could "hear" any progress that was made. Now she gets so absorbed in the magazine that she's still sitting there reading long after she's finished potty time. Maybe the older members of your family can help out/take turns giving him potty time attention, reading to him or distracting him some other way while he gets the hang of sitting.
By the way, in the beginning, there were unfortunately days where she wanted NO part of potty time, and I had to force it, keeping her on the seat, until she at least sat quietly for even 1 minute. It was terrible and difficult, since you want potty time to come naturally, but for us it was the only way to enforce how important potty time is. She still loves to hold it in ALL day if she could, so we use Morning, Afternoon and Evening "required" potty time, hoping that eventuallys she'll get the hang of going on her own. You'll figure out the right way to handle it for your son, I'm sure. Good luck!

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L.M.

answers from Pittsburgh on

I have a very stubborn 4-y-o, too, and being "little" may appeal to him more than being a big boy, unfortunately. With your son, though, I bet he could be convinced that it's more fun to be big. I agree with the others who talk about finding the right incentives, short or long-term: treat, toy, camp he has to be potty-trained for, etc. (I'm still searching for what might work). One thing I haven't gotten around to trying yet is putting a few drops of blue food coloring in the potty so that the water will change color when the kid pees in it. It should be pretty impressive! Good luck -- hang in there! Remember that you won't have to go along with him to college someday to change his diaper....

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