Patience or Punishment... When to Say Enough Is Enough to Our 9 Year Old Son

wow....that's scary coming from such a young child. I'm sorry for him and you that he's going through this.

The only thing I can think of is that he some serious councelling (which it sounds like you're looking into) and a whole lotta love. I don't think I'd get too tough in this situation, especially because he hasn't gotten evaluated yet and you don't know what the 'real' problem is.

Have you tried talking to him, one on one? Ask him where these negative feelings about himself are coming from. Is he involved in activities that allow him to feel proud of himself and his accomplishments? Whether they're academic, artistic or athletic, it's SO important for a child to feel pride in HIMSELF!

Good luck and I hope he gets the help he needs soon :)

I think you are going in the right direction to get a real professional evaluation. However in the mean time you can set up a behavior chart, push the positive reinforcements, reward the good behavior, ect.

You might also get his teacher in on a behavior plan for school where the teacher rewards him for good behavior and/or sends a simple three tier note home each day as to whether he was great, just ok or had troubles for that day. I would try to keep it as positive at as possible and have very bad behaviors be cause for a phone call to you while he is at school.

Once you get an offical diagnosis for him, do whatever you can to help him! Even if it includes a 504plan or an IEP. His acting out is quite possibly his way of begging for help!
best of luck!
D.

Does he have siblings?
While you're waiting for the "diagnosis",
can you look into getting counseling for him?
Please do not tell him to stop his behavior.
Find out what he needs and be part of the team that provides it for him.
Good luck.

Patience always! You cannot punish this sort of behavior out of him. He obviously has some serious mental health issues and everyone in the family needs help managing them. You do need to have rules and firmly enforce them in a loving way. I know it's difficult to not get angry with such an angry child but anger only hinders your relationship and everyone's mental health.

I know how much it feels like saying "enough is enough" is the way to go. But think about it. If telling him "enough is enough" would work he wouldn't be like this anymore. You've been telling him that but not in those words all along. He is unable to change the way he feels or his attitude and actions. He first has to learn about his emotions, what causes him to feel that way, and then how to handle them in a constructive way. That is a long and complicated process that requires professional help.

I'm glad you're getting a thorough evaluation. It will take time to find the right combination of ways to treat and manage his behavior and feelings. You have to find a way to have patience. I urge you to start therapy for yourself NOW.

I had a foster child who was extremely angry and acted out big time also. Both of us were in therapy. Her for her feelings and behavior and me for mine. We would not have survived if we hadn't had the counseling. I urge you to make an appointment for yourself. You can ask the person/people doing the evaluation for recommendations of counselors who deal with this sort of behavior.

It will take time for the evaluation to be completed and then time to find the right combination of therapists and medications (if needed). Don't wait for that process to be completed. Call RAW to get help for yourself! I can't emphasize that enough. Get help for yourself!

This may sound totally off subject, but has anyone suggested food allergy testing for your son? In my younger years, I suffered from terrible mood swings and depression. Fortunately, my grandmother found someone who worked with cases like mine. I am most allergic to wheat and dairy products.

I still eat wheat but when I eat it too often or too many days in a row, I can tell that I do not feel great.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. My daughter had a lot of anger issues growing up and I know how hard it is to not understand the emotions going through your child. She is an adult now and I still struggle with our relationship. Recently, I read a book that was recommended to me called "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" which is about validation. Validation is important in all of our relationships but especially if a loved one is troubled by a mood disorder. Some children have trouble processing emotion so it comes out as rage - or self rage. I thought validation just meant being positive until I read this book and learned that validation is about accepting the emotion coming from the other person even if that emotion makes no logical sense to you. The example I use is when the person says "You don't love me!" and we reply "Of course, I love you" - that is NON validating. The better answer is to try to get them to talk through the emotion. First you acknowledge it and empathize with it. So instead you might say: "I must have done something to make you feel like I didn't love you. That must feel terrible. Can we talk about what happened that made you feel that way?" Of course, you are doing the right thing looking into counseling. I hope things get better for you all.

Please do not blame yourself. It sounds like you're questioning what you've done wrong, but children can have problems with depression and other mood issues independent of their parents or environment. And it sounds like childhood depression may well be what he's dealing with. If so, you might find a remarkable change with medication or psychotherapy or both.

I also would want to know if he's experienced any trauma. Perhaps something's happened that you don't even know about. It's worth asking him.

I do agree with you that saying "Enough is enough" won't solve the problem. If he could feel better, he would. Why would he CHOOSE to hate himself and feel miserable? Telling a depressed person to just feel better is like expecting someone with diabetes to get their blood sugar up through positive thinking. It's just not that easy to say for the depressed person to say (and mean it), "Oh, you're right. It doesn't hurt after all." It hurts, and until his hurt is addressed, he will continue to have difficulties, I'm sorry to say. Good luck to you!

I know that you're waiting for an evaluation through the school system, but there's no reason that you can't be getting him help now. If you have insurance, find out what your mental health coverage is and take him to a child psychologist.

A psychologist will have a good sense of what is "normal" behavior and what is beyond the pale, and will hopefully have constructive suggestions for how to help even if nothing is diagnosable. Finally, you don't have to worry about them immediately prescribing meds, as only psychiatrists are medically licensed. And, of course, if you're worried about meds, you can always ask about the attitude towards meds when calling to make the appointment.

Good luck.

My heart breaks for you. I am a teacher, fourth grade. I've seen kids who had some of these issues, but not all of them. First of all, I want to tell you that i'm sorry you are going through all of this. It sounds like you are trying very hard to do the right things, and get him the help he needs. Does he have interests? Does he like anything? If he does, capitalize on those things -- does he have friends? It sounds like he is depressed, like a real depression. With that and other problems, therapy and meds can really help. can he enjoy himself with siblings? Does he have a religious person you or he could maybe reach out to? Like a priest or a rabbi? Ugh, and now a fight at school. SOunds like maybe he is being bullied at school if he now has had a fight... He definitely needs to be assessed by your Child Study Team at his school, and push for a diagnosis. Also from your ped., they could send him to a child neurologist to check for other problems. If you feel like you need to say enough is enough, then you should - but only once you find out all the info -- about the fight, and about what is going on with him. I wish you all the luck in the world. Just keep trying to get him help and happy... and some children do quasi-grow out of this... with lots of help.

I would look into a psychiatrist, it sounds like horrible depression. I would get him on medication ASAP if that's what it is. When you had him assessed for "suicide" did they not say anything about that? I can't imagine they didn't. I would definitely look into it. Sometimes it doesn't matter how great of a home they're from, if there's a chemical imbalance there's nothing that's going to help but medication. I'm sure there will be "haters" that post against meds, but I don't care!!!!

Wow, your post made me want to cry because I have a son and would hate to see him going through this. I think you need to be a source of comfort for him. When he does things that are not OK, let him know it is the behavior you don't like, but you love him. Let him know you want to help him be able to be happy. He is probably confused and doesn't know why he acts the way he does. It sounds like you are doing the right things now by getting an assesment and getting him in therapy. Look up the warning signs of suicide so that you know what to be aware of adn be vigilant. Please send an update to let us know how he and you are doing.

First, discuss this with your husband. It's a family matter, and he needs to be involved. Don't just dump it all on him, but at night, just say you are very concerned about your son, and then give him some examples. Then, start looking at when this all happened? Has this been progressive, or was he a happy bubbly boy one day and then depressed the next? What happened? Once you and your husband can determine the what and when, you can approach your son in a loving manner and begin the journey of encouraging him. My son was the first to realize something was very different about him, but didn't have the words to express it. We realized later from seeing signs, behavior problems, social problems--grades were good, but homework was a nightmare. Children sometimes start telling themselves untruths until you catch on. The best thing we did as parents was pray, research education, learn about schools and special needs, and then decided to homeschool. A year and a half after we started homeschooling, he began to open up and was able to tell me more things about how he felt when he was in school, how kids treated him, and he was 8 and a half, almost 9 at the time! He had been in school two years, without his telling us how he was feeling! When we did homeschool, we were able to help him see some gifts that he had that he wouldn't have learned while he was in school always struggling to catch up or keep up. Homeschooling is not for everyone, but it helped his self-esteem tremendously and he's an entirely different person. We did not have to medicate. He was able to get better speech therapy and one-on-one instruction helped with processing. He's got a bunch of friends and a very active calendar. Now, if you feel school is still best for him, realize you might have to be his best advocate and fight for accomodations in public school or search for a school with a great special education program. If he's gifted, but struggles with coursework, you might have to schedule regular meetings and progress reports with teachers and principal to get them to provide extra credit work, alternate testing and reporting measures, and classroom seating that might help with distractions. Encourage your son to speak up at home if he's having trouble processing what is happening in the day. You and Dad will need to set up a positive reinforcement plan for him, and a behavior modification plan. You can do these things with the help of a good pediatric neurologist/psychologist. Are there any activities he's good at that helps him recognize he's pretty unique? It's great that you do family activities, but we all have a need to know that we can be successful at something. If he's spending five days a week, six hours per day, feeling like a failure, that's enough to depress anyone, even with a loving, supportive family. Finally, if you need a second opinion about your son's diagnosis, you might want to ask your health insurance company if they will cover testing. They might not tell you, but ask about reimbursement. Kennedy Kreiger in Baltimore will do the testing, a full-day, and you might have to pay out of pocket, but submit a claim to your insurance company and they can reimburse you. Kennedy Kreiger is one of the best facilities in the country. There might be a waitlist, but getting a full assessment for your child is worth the wait. And, schools are not charged with ensuring children are learning and thriving. States are required to provide thorough, adequate instruction. It's kind of tough to prove that your child is not going to perform under his present conditions, but you might consider seeking an advocate to help you along the way if you cannot get his current school to help you with a good plan. If you need more suggestions, feel free to write. I can find info. about resources in Charles County.

what a heartbreaking, difficult situation your entire family is experiencing. it sounds like your son is in a lot of pain and he definitely needs help to overcome it. sounds like counseling is needed and lots of love to help him through this time. also it's so important to remember to get support and care for yourself as you help him. often caregivers forget to care for themselves and how can we be helpful to others if we are worn out and spent.
love and light to your family...

Have you considered getting him into martial arts? like karate or something like that? That will build his self-esteem and also help him with any aggression or anger problems . The discipline that comes with it too is a real plus. I am so sorry you are going through this-- keep up the faith, it will get better.

M

I am so sorry you are going through this. Don't feel like you have to defend yourself. Your son has a true mental illness you just don't know what it is yet. If he is at risk of being suicidal, there is something very serious going on. I think all you can do at this point is wait for the eval. and be open to all reccomendations from professionals. Good luck and let us know.

You are doing the right thing in seeking professional help. From my own personal experience I see this as classic, untreated bi-polar. This is not depression. This is bi-polar. Look into your family history, bi-polar is genetic. He needs proper treatment. If he gets treated for just depression, the manic phase will get worse. Don't put this off. His life depends on it. With treatment for bi-polar, he has a chance for a normal life. Without it he will have virtually no chance for a normal life. My late husband was bi-polar, his whole family had it and were untreated. When everyone around you suffers from the same problem, nobody recognizes that there is a problem. My first husband was a brilliant and talented man who died needlessly from a heart attack at the age of 42. Because of his bi-polar depression, he ignored the warning signs of his failing heart. He mistook his symptoms of chronic heart failure for "just another depressive episode." He waited for the 'episode' to pass until finally, it was too late and too far gone. Bi-polar filters and colors perception.
Would you punish your child for having a tummy ache? Is it enabling his flu to give him chicken soup? The best thing you can do is LOVE your child. Find the help he needs regardless of the negativity of others. You have nothing to prove to ANY of us. Love your son and do not be afraid, he is counting on you whether or not he can actually show you, or ask for it. You may not have all the answers, but you have it in your power to find the people who do. You do not have to let fear, doubt, shame, or ignorance cost you the life of your child.

So sorry to hear about you and your child's distress. I have found some insight from this mom's homeshooling blog. Just thought I'd share:

http://theparentingpassageway.com/2010/02/01/the-nine-yea...

There is also a book called Encountering the Self by Hermann Koepke that you may find helpful.

Good luck!

My Dear, I could barely read your heartfelt letter through my tears! Two parents tripping over themselves to help their child-and he, so young, to be going through this level of angst. There must be something wrong somewhere-perhaps school? Maybe the child he was fighting with? Counseling will help-and don't panic-but medication in this acute situation may help. You are not the first person to be at your wits end with your son-nipping this in the bud now will be easier than when he is a teenager. Have him get a complete physical with bloodwork, including hormone levels. Never give up-if he's giving up and can't find something he likes about himself-imagine what it would do to him to know you have given up-he is counting on you for help-it is beyond his control to get ahold of his behavior and if the experts are baffled-think of how he must feel. God bless you-I am praying for you and your little son.

Why don't you want to tell your Husband??? He'd need to know too... so both of you will understand what is going on.... and to help him.

Next, it could be a chemical imbalance.... maybe depression.... but its good you will have the results of his assessment soon.
I assume he was assessed by a Psychologist or Psychiatrist? Since he has had a suicide "risk."

Since he did have a risk to self alert... I would make sure he is not unsupervised....

Or... could it be that he is being Bullied???? But you said this has been going on for awhile? Does he have friends? How is his life AT school? What do his teachers say? Any peer problems?

Until you know, for certain... WHAT is going on with him... it will not be succinctly guaranteed... on how you should handle him. Why 'punish' him.... for his self-loathing and self-hatred??? That will not help.
But he is now fighting in school... so this is merely a "symptom" of what is going on IN him.... and punishing for the "fighting" will not necessarily help... because the "origin" of his problems... is not yet, known. It is UNknown....

I wish the best for you... and that your son's malady can be improved and that he gets a proper diagnosis....
obviously, this is all not easy for him either... he is floundering....

all the best,
Susan

I don't know what area you are in, but I have heard if your child is on the 'suicide risk' list, Kennedy Kreiger in Baltimore will take him faster. They normally have a long long long long waiting list but for your case, I've heard they by-pass all that and to a speed appt. If you've never heard of KKI (Kennedy Kreiger Institute) they're part of Johns Hopkins and are the no. 1 ranked Childrens mental health facility in the U.S. You're son need evaluation and lots of therapy. We went through a similar issue with one of our sons who ultimately was diagnosed ADHD and has been on meds for about 1 1/2 years and doing great, but while we were waiting for the evaluation, it was agony. He was angry, violent, suspended twice from school. We too were/are a good, 'normal' family who eats together, etc etc etc. I feel your pain and frustration and fear!!!

KKI and Mt Washington in Baltimore are two fantastic pediatric development facilities and if you could get into either, you would be just fine, but keep in mind. You don't have to go to either of these for evaluations and diagnoses. If you can find a child Psychiatrist in your area, they can/will do the same.

Feel free to contact me directly should you wish to discuss this further.

Good luck!!!!
J.

When going to all the doctors you are about to be visiting, check him for allergies too. Wheat, egg, dairy, food dyes and preservatives allergies can have emotional reactions not just physical rashes, throwing up, throat closing etc. Check autism diets, books by Jennie McArthy and Holly Robinson Peete just to show you how food can effect mood.

Good Luck!

I don't have much to add but have a similar acting son but mine has stomach issues associated with his emotions. He will be 12 this month. Lately, I have been hugging him more. Reassuring him more. Even when punishing him, I keep reminding him the parts about him that make him so great and that we all have to pay the price for doing something wrong every now and then. For adults, maybe it is a parking ticket, for example. For a kid, maybe it is not getting to play with the DS for a week. Over time we learn not to make the same mistake and to be more careful, that ultimately these punishments are normal and don't make him bad. I read somewhere from another mom that she felt like there was nothing more healing for a child than just putting your hands on him or her. So now I rub his hand to help relax him; I hug a little longer than normal and tussle his hair when he walks by and say something like, "You look so cute today." Just little terms of endearment. We are not perfect and parenting is extremely hard...what works for one child, totally screws up another. But parents are best at loving their children. We can all do that well. Children still need discipline but also divided up with lots of love and encouragement. Good luck to you and your family.
God bless,
Z.

Not being an expert, I would guess that your son might be on the autism spectrum. Kids on that spectrum have lots of trouble understanding other people's verbal and physical cues, so they end up being socially isolated. At the same time, they are brilliant. If your son is socially isolated at school, this could be the reason for his sadness and his acting out. Your assessment should tell you what is wrong. But, here is the comfort -- when you find out what is wrong, then you will know what to do and that will be easier than watching your son struggle. I think that what he probably needs is not punishment but tremendous loving support in the meantime. That doesn't mean that you don't set boundaries for behavior, but you have to keep reassuring him that no matter what he can come to you -- that home is haven where he is loved. And honestly, I would take the pressure off of him to do really well in school until you figure out what is going on. My son will turn 9 in a few weeks. He is ADD and it was hard to watch him struggle in school and socially. When we figured out what was wrong, then we took some steps, including putting him on Aradix while he was school. It took awhile, but he is confident, happy and just made honor roll. Hang in there. It will be okay.

You and your family, especially your young son are in my prayers. I have no advise. Just stay strong and stay available to him. If you are feeling overwhemed and out of control, I imagine he feels the same twice as bad. I'm sure he doesn't want to hurt or disappoint you. Keep on loving and never give up on your child. ((Hugs)) and lots of prayers.

E.:

I realize I'm late in this...

My instinct is just pick him up and hold him....I can't imagine the pain he's going through - let alone you and your husband.

When my boys are having meltdown's - unfortunately, it sounds like your son's is more than just a meltdown...when I (this is underlined, italicized and bolded!!) want to meltdown and just yell and scream at them I hold them. I rock back and forth with them until my anger disapates - I know your son needs more than that.

Contact your pediatrician - have them contact a pyschiatrist and talk to them to get him in NOW not later. This won't be an easy road to go - there will be more to this roller coaster of his.

Reinforce every day all the good things about him. Tell him and show him love and compassion every day - even when you are mad - he WILL remember that. You can tell him you are upset. You can tell him how you feel but remind him that you LOVE him - always and forever - no matter what. and that he WILL get through this.

If you don't go to church - find one. Get him into a youth group that will also help him find his way.

It might be that he is being bullied at school for being too smart or he could be getting bugged because he's the first to have his work done and bounces off the walls waiting for everyone else. keep in constant contact with his teachers. Find out what they believe is going on - as they see him more during the day than you do.

If you aren't working, consider home schooling him so that he can get the stimulation and challenge he needs in order to succeed. There are times when kids are soo smart that they aren't challenged in school that bad stuff happens - they hate themselves because they get it done quicker and have to wait - why can't I just slow down and do it at everyone else's pace? why can't I just dumb myself down?

I will keep you in my prayers.