ODD Diagnosis in 12Yo Boy

You have received some excellent responses here, so I won't delve too deep into this other than to say this is the kind of thing you need to JUMP on now and take seriously. You need a good team helping you; psychiatrist, psychologist/therapist (for him and for the family), and a good behavior plan. It sucks! And its hard. But if you don't do it now you don't know what you might be facing 3, 5, or 10 years from now.

Here is a website that has a newsletter that I've found to be very helpful in understanding ODD. http://www.docspeak.com/

Best of luck to you!

A., I am giving you two answers. the first addresses your question and the second is one I gave another mom of a adhd child and our results. please read the whole thing as it looks long lol.
You need to get him in to a councilor/psychologist. Someone to talk to. Psychiatrists are great as they can dispense the meds. But you get; if your lucky 10 minutes in the office with them. I would make an apt asap and get him in so he can talk. most psychologists / councilors have 1 hour apts. Your son is probably hitting puberty about now and hormones go crazy. his current meds may need to be adjusted. Its not good that he is shutting down school wise now you will have a really hard time getting that back on track. If you can I would suggest getting him into some sort of summer school program so he keeps up with school stuff. also is he taking his meds for the adhd stuff do you watch him swallow them? have they been changed recently? My son had 4 different meds for adhd before the miracle drug happened for us. sam was on ritilin and it made him cry, he had adderall
(below is my response about meds)
My son has had several different meds for adhd. He was started on ritilin. It was not a good fit at all. Made him very aggressive which up to that point we had never (and have never had again) had a problem with. It also made him very emotional and he cried a lot. that was never an issue before either. They switched him to adderall. which worked very good for about a year and a half. he took one before school and another at lunch time in order for it to work thru the school day. the only down side to that was he couldn't go to sleep at night. so then had to have a pill for that. I was not happy with that at all. he was then switched to a slow release form of adderall. THIS WAS A MIRACLE DRUG. lol He was on it for several years. It got him thru the school day and homework and then ran down before bed time. However over time it also lost its effectivness. When he was in 6th grade he was switched to Vyvance. THIS WAS THE SECOND MIRACLE. He was on it for about a year and a half. His grades improved dramatically his attention span was great. Last summer (end of 7th grade) he asked if we would let him try without meds. We agreed, doctor agreed and he is doing spectacular. It has been a year and he is on the high honor roll, joined the choir and the wrestling team. Just wanted you to know that your child going on meds now doesn't mean they will be on them for life. Some of the ADHD behaviors do get outgrown. Some don't. But the positives way outweigh the negatives. I swore I wouldn't let him be put on meds. And fought it for a year. But his kindergarten teacher told me at the time I have all the extreme kids in the district and your son is my extreme in the classroom. So glad I listened to the doctor.

Be consistent in everything you do.
Pick your battles very carefully.
Stay away from the soda, preservatives, etc.
Try a high protein diet.
Set rules that are absolute, non negotiable, one of ours was dinner with the family when he was home.
Get a lock for the tv and password protect the computer with something he can't figure out.
Clean out his room. Only books and his Nintendo DS. He need a resipte.
We turned the door locks around so he couldnt' lock us out and almost removed the door completely.
Use statements like, The rule is __________
Try to get him involved in a group activity that does not involve team work. Like church youth group, Tae Qwon Do, volunteering somewhere.
Let him know you love him everyday.
Go into his room and just have a talk. Talk about things he is interested in. I really dont' like Star Wars or Zelda but I could have a conversation on them and pretend.
This is not the end of the world. Sometimes it might seem to be. I didn't think mine would ever make it but he is in the Navy and wants to stay 20 years. He is extrememly ODD and ADHD but still calls me on my birthday, Mother's Day, or Christmas. I was in his room every night letting him know he was loved. Even when he would do the things he did. It was hard.

12 year old boys are just as emotional as 12 year old girls. IN fact Mr. ODD in my house was 10 times that of any of my girls and I have three of them still here.

Get yourself a good support group. And have Grandma and Grandpa take him if they can for a week or so this summer. You need a break, believe me.

Hi, A.:
Your son needs a vacation.

Is there a vacation spot he can enjoy?
Just wondering.
Good luck. D.

My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD in elementary school and I refused to allow meds, it was the 80's and I didn't have any idea what I was doing. When I married my 2nd husband she came to live with us for a while and was sent off to diagnostic and Evaluation because she was becoming uncontrollable. The diagnosed with ODD.

To make a long story a bit shorter I'll jump ahead. She dropped out of high school at 16, has never, NEVER, been able to hold employment longer than 2-3 weeks because when you argue with your employer that you just really had to take that phone call, or that you really needed to put makeup on in the car and couldn't help it if you were 30 minutes late, etc....she disagrees with customers, talks back to bosses and starts stupid battles over any little thing. She turns 31 in the Fall. All 6 of her children have been taken away and of course it's not her fault. Three are up for adoption and my ex and I are raising the rest. She has turned to drugs and alcohol and has been homeless most of her adult life. She has no attachment to any of her possessions, big screen tv's, cars, (yes cars) her home on wheels, just parks them and when they get towed and she just goes to the casino and makes enough winnings to get a different one, houses full of furniture and kids clothes and toys, she just walks away and leaves them for the land lord to dispose of.

Again, this is what ended up because I didn't aggressively work with her and a therapist who specialized in the disorder. Just anyone won't do. I do believe I could have influenced her better and did a lot more. I am all grown up now and would make different choices so the only thing I can do is tell other parents, do everything within your power to defeat this disorder. Do what ever it takes to help this child. It is not a choice they are making, it is a disorder that can ruin their lives. The child is just as confused as you sometimes.
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Here are some links I find helpful defining and talking about treatment:

http://www.health.am/psy/more/conduct_disorder_and_opposi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder
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Here is a link to love and logic. Please find some place in your area that offers classes in this style of parenting. We took ours free at the local community mental health agency. Your child has to learn there are consequences of his actions, if he doesn't then he has more possibility of developing antisocial personality disorder as an adult and that will leave him disabled for life.

http://www.loveandlogic.com/

I have a with a 7 yo and he was recently diagnosed with ODD. He goes to therapy once per week and it is really helping him.....and she goes too. She has seen improvement. Hope this is encouraging.

I have a difficult 16 year old that has been that way since birth! I am sure if I had brought him to a therapist at 12, he would have been diagnosed with ODD. I think the most difficult thing to do is to insure that boys like this take responsability for their actions.
I always try to get both sides of the story from the teacher or other individual as-well-as my son. Part of holding him accountable is you have to know the truth! Also keep in mind, teachers do not often like children with this disorder, because they are difficult, lie, refuse to do work, etc. so be aware his school days can be pretty rough. I try not to "double punish" my son. If he receives a detention at school, I don't then ground him at home. The consequences of bad grades and not doing homework, is summer school. Natural consequences often seem to have a greater effect then when they are handed over...he will often blame the person giving the punishment as the cause, I am often trying to reiterate the "path" that brought him there.

I know it is not easy and we all want our children to do well. He will be maturing and no parent wants there child to do anything that may cause police involvement or effect them for the rest of their life. So stay connected, try to understand how he sees things, always seek the truth, tell him clearly what the consequences will be for his actions, and try to keep his self esteem in tact while doing so....sounds easy right?

Good luck and don't take the diagnosis to literally, with many disorders, children come out differently depending on there nurturing! ( My husband is very succesful and would have been diagnosed with ODD as a teenager, that always makes me feel a little better!)

I am just going to throw a few things out here for you to look into, I would have no idea which ones, if any could help you, but having kids with these kinds of issues that aged through childhood, we did see changes at certain points.

Puberty is rough for kids like ours. What worked for them at 5-10 quit working when they hit the puberty zone, everything changed from their behaviro, to what kind of meds they needed to get through. The stimulants caused agitation, and we had to adjust, they needed different and very closely monitored antidepressent meds and something to help them deal with mood. They just could not deal with the normal flashes and dips in thier growing and raging little bodies, so my best advice is to find a very attentive psychiatrist, maybe one that takes no insurance at all, because they might be able to see him as often as he needs it. This was an expensive process for us, but worth every penny.

Another thing I would look at is an educational evaluation. If he has never been evaluated by the school, ask for it, in writing. Some kids with ADHD are very bright, but have some basic and fundamental learning issues associated with processing, but because they are so bright, they can manage the lower grades with shear force. It is easier for a moody 12 year old to lie and argue than it is to tell adults that he has no idea why he can't keep up anymore. It is almost never the case that he is just lazy or wants to be in trouble, that is a common presentation and he is frustrated and needs your help.

When they reach middle school age, they just can't pull it off anymore because of basic processing issues like processing speed, working memeory or visual processing skills and many measures of poor executive function. Get both a school evaluation and a private evaluation by a nuerupsychologis (as your psychiatrist for a referal) and I would request something called a Woodcock Cognative from your private evaluator (not all you need, but a really good tool to show you how he processes information.)

Go to www.wrightslaw.com and do some reading about how to advocate with the school for good services for your son. A child whose grades are dropping and has ADHD warrents evaluation and assistance. He does not have to fail before he gets help. I would also suggest that you read "The Myth of Laziness" by Dr. Mel Levine. It just is not the case that kids want this presentation, he is probably more misserable than you are, for sure!

Last, if the psychiatrist did not explain ODD, ask again, and if you have a good one, they will take the time to explain everything you need to know about what they see and how they are treating your son.

M.

There are some great books out there. Try your public library or the professional library at your son's school. There is no pat answer for this but the books will give you insight to the situation.
I had a child in my classroom who was diagnosed with ODD and did a lot of reading to find out what I could do in my classroom. In the case of my student poor diet and sleeping habits added to the behavior.
I would question if the ADHD medication side effects could be a part of the behavior, perhaps with the beginning of puberty his body chemistry is changing.
Good luck. It sounds like you are right on top of this!

Sounds like me! woah.Anyway, I never heard that before. Whoever labels these people is mighty amazing. He also happens to sound like most males of that age, except perhaps for the lying part because their hormones are changing and they have all that peer pressure to be cool and yadedah. I would assume school is almost out. Let the school know you want to hear from the psychiatrist ASAP and take it from there. And keep talking, talking and talking to him about why he doesn't do work. I think a lot of these kids don't because they feel discouraged that they do not do well, so they figure why bother. Do not worry you sounds like an excellent mom and you hang in there.

First of all, he needs a very structured environment at home. He needs rules and consequences - and follow through. (I would not spend my life tip-toeing around a tween because he might explode.)
I would make sure that when he got home from school, he had time to run around (I used to make my kids run around the house 10 times before they could come in just to blow off some energy.) Then he could have a snack and start his homework. I would sit with him until it is done. I would encourage, but not give the answers. If you are sitting there, you might balance your check book, write some bills or something like that. Do not allow any TV or video games until the homework is done.
I would give him chores to do like empty the dishwasher or take out the trash.
As for the lying... I don't tolerate that. Tell him the rules: The first time he lies, I would remove every last thing from his room except his mattress, blanket, and pillow. He'd have to earn it all back - including the door. I'd allow no cell phones, video games, TV, computer time - nothing. If he goes for a week without lies, he gets his door back, etc. You absolutely have to follow through...
Does he do Karate? That might be a good activity for him - it burns energy and teaches self control and self discipline.
YMMV
LBC

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling A., but it sounds like you're ready to do everything you can to get your son back on track. I second the others' advice to make sure the ADHD meds are still working appropriately. Puberty and growth spurts can do a real number, and you don't want med problems adding to the ODD issue. Your doctor should have a checklist type form that can be sent to the school. Make sure that all of his teachers fill it out, as it can be very instructive as far as if medication is wearing off during the day. Would his third period teacher still recognize him at the end of the day, for example? I know the year is almost out and the teachers are probably fried; let them know that you want their help now so that next school year gets off on the right foot.

Use this summer to get your son comfortable with a counselor well-versed in ODD so that you've got a game plan ready for next year. Let his new teachers know that it's important for you to be alerted as soon as he begins to step out of line. Having taught 7th - 9th grades for the past 9 years, I've learned to pick my battles with kids. I'm not going to go nuts on a kid who puts his head down one day. Maybe he had a rough morning and this is a fluke thing; maybe he'll tell me about it when I ask later. But when a kid has ODD, I need to know that this is the start of something that (probably) will escalate. I've found the Love and Logic techniques for teachers useful with a few of my students with ODD. I have also found that big reactions in front of peers only make things worse. As a teacher, I'd feel really stupid calling a parent and saying, "Johnny refused to sit where I asked, or wrote HaHa instead of doing his worksheet today." It seems almost petty to complain about those things. It's not like he cursed or threw something. Yet, so often that's where it starts out. Speaking for myself, I would appreciate hearing a parent say, "Please tell me about the little things so I can nip them in the bud."

I've seen lots of kids successfully make it through some very ugly phases. Middle school is a pretty ugly phase even without a disorder right? But a phase can become forever if a parent won't look it in the eye. I know Gamma G's post may seem extreme, but I can easily imagine one of my students with ODD heading down that same path. I think that you're going to need lots of patience and perseverance in the coming years, but it seems to me that you're ready to look ODD in the eye and keep it from taking control of your son, the same way you confronted his ADHD.

I used to supervise a children's case management department, and saw a lot of our kids come through with an ODD diagnosis. If I have any advice for you, it's this: this is most likely just a stage that your son is going through, so don't let this diagnosis become a self-fulfilling prophesy (as in, "Well, we are just going to accept that you are going to act like a monster b/c you have this diagnosis"). Continue to work with each of his behaviors, while trying to focus on getting him through this tough stage, and remaining optimistic that he will be back to his old self eventually. Best of luck to you!