Our neighbor has an 11 year old son. He's not a terrible kid. Really, he could be a lot worse. If he were worse, I would almost feel better about the situation we're in, but as it is, I'm just stumped. If it were just one of these things once or twice, it wouldn't be an issue, but it is constant and adds together to just make you crazy.
This kid lives right next to the fence that separates our two properties. Whether we are outside or inside, if he is home, he is at our door trying to get people to come out and play. Problem one: he doesn't just ring or knock once or twice. He does so continuously until someone answers. As I am typing, the latest barrage has just begun. Aside from being downright rude and annoying, we also have a newborn. Sigh. We have asked him not to do this, but alas, it continues.
Problem 2-100: I could probably write a novel about the problems we've had when we allow our kids to play with this child. The common theme is, we have asked him repeatedly to stop his undesirable behaviors, and he continues relentlessly. Things like looking in our windows and doors, being destructive/obnoxious with the toys/outside equipment (he has kicked more balls into trees intentionally than I care to mention), roughhousing and pushing people down on the trampoline (only one of our children is his age; the rest are 3 years, five years, and seven years YOUNGER than him, but even our oldest is a lot smaller than this kid) or trying to order them around, often through intimidation. Other issues include things like opening our doors and stepping into the house if one of our kids comes inside while they're playing, coming onto our property uninvited (he thought we had left) and using the swings and trampoline, and otherwise invading our privacy/personal space. One time he actually followed our son into the house and walked into our master bathroom (as in, through our bedroom) while my husband was preparing to shower...yeah...
We have talked to him, we have talked to his father, we have talked to his grandparents. He has been grounded once (for the bathroom incident), and the rest of the time, his behavior improves for about an hour before he starts it up again. Most recently, he was hitting my oldest son repeatedly with a baseball cap that had a metal buckle while saying, "Does this hurt? Does this hurt? Does this hurt?" Until the metal buckle cut my son's leg (as in, making it bleed). He did not apologize and showed absolutely no remorse. When I talked to my husband about this, he went over and told the kid to stop coming over, period. He told him that he will still bring the kids over to the boy's house IF they want to play but for him to not come over ringing the doorbell and knocking all the time. This worked for one day.
Since then, he comes over at least five times a day trying to see if we will let him play. When I answer the door and remind him that my husband asked him not to come, he just gives me this look like my comment is completely irrelevant to his request for people to come out and play. Only he won't actually say anything. He'll just stand there, staring, until it is completely awkward and unpleasant. When one of my kids answers the door, he tries to manipulate or boss them. For instance, it took five days of people telling him we weren't playing, plus three separate rejections on the sixth day before he decided to try apologizing for the hat incident before asking to play again. Really?? We have tried everything from polite to stern to angry (that would be my oldest son; he's sick of this kid) to rude to not even answering the door, even if he knows we're here. And yet, here we are on day eight after he was told not to come back, and he's already come to the door three times since I started typing this post. And if my kids go outside, it's just as bad, maybe worse. He'll sit on the fence and stare at them continually while they play, and/or call my two oldest sons over to try to convince them that he should be allowed to play.
I feel like a hostage to this kid's behavior. I feel guilty (especially when we're outside and he's sitting on the fence staring at us) but angry because we shouldn't have to continue asking him to stop. My younger kids feel guilty about not playing with him, my oldest is furious that he still tries to come over. My husband and I have joked about this boy's future life as a stalker to some poor girl, but I find that less funny with every day that goes by. (And here he is at the door again...) So, what would you do in this situation?
ETA: I know the father/grandparents are the obvious key here, just in case it appears we have given up dealing with them. The last several times we have attempted to contact them, there has been no adult present at the home. We don't have their number (or vice versa--I can't imagine what this boy would do if our phone was at his disposal too!!), or we would call them. Often. They work a lot, from what we know. Would you leave them a note? Just keep trying to catch them at the right time?
First, thanks all for the great advice as well as the many sympathetic responders (although I hate that anyone else has had to deal with this!). I was still trying to decide how I needed to handle things when today's barrage began. I wasn't sure yet if I wanted to give this kid a graduated approach to being banned forever, or if I was going to just end things once and for all. So I told my kids not to answer the door at all while I made up my mind. He came to the door three different times that went unanswered (staying approximately 10 minutes per time and leaving for 5-10 minutes between each). Then he went around to the back door and started banging there. I caught him staring in the door (it's a glass door without blinds on it), and that was all the motivation I needed. I opened the door and reamed him out, ignored his awkward stare, and told him to stop coming over and go home. There was nothing he could have misinterpreted as nicety, encouragement, or an invitation. And, no, I didn't feel guilty about it.
When my husband gets home tonight, we will be deciding on a future strategy, whether to give our older kids a chance to play (supervised--by one of us-only) at his home, or whether to cut things off completely. In the meantime, I think we've gained at least an afternoon's peace... I hope... Thanks again for the encouragement/advice!
I would get on the phone every time he stops by to inform the parents. Maybe if they're getting harassed as much as you are, this will finally stop.
We have a neighborhood kid that's kind if like that. He's ADHD and his mom says the first words/actions are "who can play today? What can I do? Where can I go?" The kid is on GO from the minute his feet hit the ground.
Use the time honored "OUTSIDE!!!" holler as needed!
Be specific the FIRST time: "they cannot come out/play at ALL today. They're busy/it's family day/ etc. HTH
If there is no one at home when you go over to talk to an adult. Call CPS. Something is just not right here.
From the way I see it there is no in-between here. No more giving an inch because he will take the mile. Time to prohibit all playing with this boy. So from now on your kids CANNOT play at his house. He cannot play at your house. He cannot stare at your kids from the fence. Etc. Your kids are prohibited from speaking to this kid. Every time the kid comes over tell him that he has to go home because you do not permit your kids to play with him. Its important to be consistent here. Never again or he will see the opening to start again. Give him one warning when he comes over and then march him back over to his house. And then just ignore him. All of you. Pretend he is not there when he looks over at you. Maybe even get a motion detector that sets of an alarm when it is crossed.
At the beginning of the post, you said, "He could be worse" and "If he were worse it would make me feel better." I thought you were going to softball us with things like the neighbor boy whines a little too much or doesn't quite get the hint when you ask him to go home because it's supper time.
I have to ask... how much worse do you want it to be? Some of his behavior could maybe be accounted for as "clueless" but you've been very direct with him.
But let's face it, he knew why he wasn't allowed at your home any longer. You told him straight out and he didn't apologize for how long? And then he thought an apology would simply wipe the slate clean and all would be forgotten as if he doesn't have other irresponsible, rude, and mean behaviors.
Okay. From this boy's point of view, he's probably lonely. I'm betting half of it is because his parents/family are never around for him and I'm guessing he doesn't have many friends due to his behavior. His behavior sucks because A.) he doesn't have anyone to correct him and B.) when he misbehaves he gets attention and whether it's negative or positive it doesn't matter. It's still attention.
He knows what to do to get your attention too. Ring the bell long enough. Knock on the door long enough. Stare into your yard longingly long enough. Annoy you and guilt you long enough and you'll give in. He may not be thinking as an adult manipulator, but he's a child that's learned how to get someone still on the fence about showing him compassion or discipline. Master manipulation in a child's body.
If he were an adult, his behavior would be considered trespassing and harassment. No means no.
Send him home as many times as it takes. The first time you hear him ring the bell or knock, get the door and without explanation simply say, "You're not allowed at my house or in my yard. I'm taking you home. Stay there." Do it every time. When his parents are home, do it. Make sure they're aware that you're sending him home each and every time. If you have to be blunt, then tell the boy that your children don't want to play with him and aren't friends with him any more. Not in a mean way, just a matter of fact way. Honesty really is the best policy, and this boy needs bluntness. No sugar coating.
I'm not so sure I would jump to "there's something wrong with him." I really think this smacks of immaturity, lack of hands on parenting, and a persistent personality.
I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty.
I am really just parroting the other responses -
Latch on gate that he cannot reach - a no trespassing sign on outside of gate. If he climbs it he is trespassing - you can call the police.
Can you turn you doorbell off? I know some turn off, some don't. When my son was a toddler I disabled the regular doorbell and installed a remote one, that I could turn off during nap time. I also posted a sign on my door telling the neighbor kids not to knock until the sign was down.
Continue to try and contact his guardians - like stalk them - pay attention to when they get home and go over there - no matter what time - and explain to them that the boy is out of control.
If this 11 year old is consistently left home alone I would honestly consider contacting CPS.
Stop the guilt. You are not responsible for this boy. If I thought that your attention to him would benefit him - I would say to be more compassionate and try to build a space for him in your lives. But, this child is out of control, and controlling you and your family. Some kids you just cannot through to, and he sounds like one of those. His family are the ones who need to step up.
Some of this seems drastic in the re-read - but you should not have to live with constant harassment from an 11 year old. You could complain to the local police - maybe they would, at least, come out and talk to his adults.
Sigh
What a frustrating situation.
Hugs.
How many times have you spoken with the dad nd the grandparents?
This sounds like child that is just going to have to be told. " Please do not come to our home or yard again."
"We have asked you many times, but because YOU cannot follow these rules, we just cannot have you over any time. Sorry, but we tried to explain, what we needed and you still have not followed our rules."
Maybe in a month, we can revisit this subject with you and your father.
Then stick with it. You should not feel bad, you are doing him a favor, teaching him how to behave. Maybe the adults in his life will also learn how to handle him, since right now, they seem to dismiss your requests.
Wow. No question, this child is a bully, and a little bit scary. I would be more afraid of vandalism than stalking, frankly.
When I was a kid, we had a girl that lived next door that we weren't allowed to play with. She was a bully, too, and would manipulate all of the younger kids on the block. Toys would be stolen, too.
It's sort of sending mixed messages, of still allowing your kids to go to his house. Either play or don't.
Keep up with the "stern" reaction. He is interpreting "polite" as "friendly." He stands there, being awkward, when you tell him he can't play? Just close the door on him. "I'm sorry, but we don't want to play with you." And then don't wait for him to leave, don't let him say anything, just close the door. I might be the meanest mom in the world, but I would do exactly that. I have told kids, when they come back with "My mom lets me." or "You're not my mom!" - "Well, I'm not your mom. I'm meaner than she is, and I said no. You can leave now."
Get a lock for your gate. (At the very least, put a latch on the INSIDE, but high enough so that you can reach it over the fence, if you know where it is.) Your kids can go through the house, if they want to move to the front yard. But to me, this kid is scary, and how often is he at your house when you AREN'T home? This is a liability you don't want. Even if he can climb over the fence, having a lock on the gate will help with liability issues with your insurance company, should he get hurt in your yard. You will then be able to show he was trespassing. Hopefully, he'll eventually learn he can't get in that way.
On top of that, disconnect your doorbell. At least until it (hopefully) sinks in that you won't be answering when he pushes it.
ETA: As others have said, you need to talk to his father and grandparents. They need a warning, at least, that you will not put up with this anymore, and that your children will not be allowed to play with him.
Incidentally, that might help with the guilt your kids are feeling. Let them blame you, if you need to. If if makes them feel better to tell him, "My mom won't let me play with you," then let them go with that. Sometimes we can be their hero, by being the bad guy.
Every time he comes over, walk him home and remind his parents AGAIN that due to his behavior, he is not welcome to play at your house. eventually they will get tired of being bothered and will put a stop to it, hopefully. but it will make for a cold relationship with them in the further, be prepared for that.
It sounds like the kid is bored and has no supervision. He's 11 and they're leaving him alone. This isn't acceptable. Most states say that a child can't be left home alone under they're around 13. You might want to check into that and figure out what to do about that.
In the meantime, I would continue to tell him that he needs to go home. If he doesn't leave then just close the door and walk away. If he comes back, tell him no and shut the door. An adult should always be the one to answer the door.
Never feel guilty. This kid could (and has) harm your children and it's your job to protect them. By keeping this boy away from them you're protecting them.
I think you need to call his dad every time he doesn't clue in and say, "Please come get your son. He's ringing our bell after I have told him the children cannot play and is making my baby cry." and "Are you aware that your son spent the afternoon staring at us? I'm sorry that my children do not want to play, but that's a little unnerving. Can you encourage him to do something else?"
It may be that he has other issues but his issues are not your issues, follow? I do feel like there's something else going on. But your children should not HAVE to play with a boy they don't like who abuses them or not feel like they can't play with anyone else/not play with him b/c he's staring at them. Having to tell him five times a day to go home is a bit much.
The first thing that jumps out at me is your telling this boy that your "husband asked him not to come." But he was asking you, not your husband. I wonder if a very clear, united message would help.
But this poor kid could be just like the sons of two of my daughter's close friends. There is something lacking or not yet developed in their ability to judge feelings in others. They can't help it, but can learn the rules (eventually) of good society. The older of these two boys is around 7 now, still VERY impulsive and often destructive. Like your neighbor, he's really not a terrible kid, but having to spend time overseeing his activity is downright exhausting, for his mom and every other adult within range. He was just diagnosed as autistic.
Anyway, clear rules with clear consequences seems to be the best way to handle many children. The consequences must be related to the undesired behavior, and they must happen every single time. With the doorbell, the rule might be "Ring no more than 2 times, and no more than once a day." If he rings thrice or comes over twice, he's out of luck for today AND tomorrow. If he comes over tomorrow, he's out an additional day. You could pin a calendar on the door and cross out days to remind him.
But the other thing that has a positive effect is to comment on behavior that you appreciate in this boy. You'll have to work to find it, maybe, or even tell him what to do. Like, "Tommy, please say please when you want a drink." Tommy parrots, "Please may I have some water?" You smile warmly and say, "THANK you for saying please. That felt so good for me!" And guess what? Tommy is WAY more likely to use please with you again.
The father is the big problem here. The child is clearly so neglected and starving for attention. Some 11 yr olds are mature enough and have good judgement enough to be left home alone. This child is NOT one of those! The father needs to be reported to the authorities so he will be forced to step up and parent. Leave the father a message on his phone and a note on the door. Tell him in both that you're sad to have to say it but since he is unable to keep his son from harassing your family you will call the police when the child harasses you and no adult can be found to deal with him. Always call the father first and leave a message to prove you tried that first, then call the police. Eventually child services will talk to dad and tell him he is not parenting enough. You're not doing the child a favor when you allow his father to neglect him.
how about just an, "It's time to go home Johnny. Bye!" polite, but firm and non-yielding. EVERY TIME. as soon as the behavior starts, ask him to leave. watch him go to his property. EVERY TIME. if his family asks, let them know what he did and that "we don't do that here and i don't want my kids picking up those behaviors." keep it short and simple. and of course, said with a smile.
i'd be done being nice to this kid if it was me. on some level he has to know his behavior is bad. if he comes over after he's been asked to leave - you don't have to be nice. "GO." would be my response lol. "Sorry, no playing. bye."
he keeps doing it because it's being continuously allowed. not at my house, sorry. he is not your responsibility - your family is.
and you know what? i might consider talking to the police. not to press charges or anything scary - but you might be able to get them to talk to him. put a little fear into him and tell him it's NOT okay to be on someone's property without permission. just a thought.
Wow, you really are in a pickle. I'm with Peg M, I think there's something not quite right with this kid. He might be only a slight bit off but the fact that he hasn't gotten the message yet indicates that his social skills aren't there. Which is all the more reason I think you need to escalate this with his father and gparents. He obviously isn't going to get it so you need the father to make sure he stays away (unless he has been invited over, but I'm thinking that's unlikely).
Sorry I don't have much advice for you, but I think getting the Dad involved is your only hope. Keep us posted. Good luck!
Your kids should not have to feel bad about not playing with this kid nor should you feel bad about telling him he needs to go home. Easier said than done, I feel a little bad just writing that, poor kid. Obviously, something's not right with him and at this point, it's not your job to make it better. Call his parent's when he comes over and tell them to come get him. He's 11, he's a lot older than your kids, and his behavior sounds VERY concerning. The metal buckle situation to me is a red flag!
we too have annoying neighbors. we put a note on the door when we dont want to be bothered... as for looking in the windows...creepy, but close the blinds and just be done with that. tell your kids they cant play with him hes older and too rough. we also had to do that. tell him he cant play with your kids any more for that reason. if he comes over just say billy we told you you cant play with our kids any more and close the door dont just sit there and stair back. if he continues the onlything i can think to do is talk to a police officer and ask what to do. bc this child is harrasing you and on your property if anything happens to him you are responsible...maybe a lock on your gate could help?
This little boy sounds ADHD (inappropriate boundaries, impulsivity issues) with no parental role model or ANYONE to provide guidance to him because he is annoying. So imagine for a minute that it was your child and what would you do. Legally it is not your responsibility to take care of him but it takes a village. In every state there is a limited to how long children can be left alone so I you could call CPS and let them try to connect with the parents, or even call the school he attends and talk with the counselors about your concern. In the mean time maybe you can turn this into a lesson for your children about how we deal with others.
I'm sure other people have told you this. Sit this kid down and strictly tell him your house rules. Tell him he is allowed to come over say, Wednesday at a certain time to see if your kids would like to play. The other days your house is off limits because he is coming over too much. Tell him very strictly what is NOT acceptable (peeking in windows, etc) and if he does it he loses the next Wednesday. If he hits or does x he has to leave immediately and cannot come over the next Wednesday. Tell him that behavior is NOT acceptable and if he continues he will not be allowed over at ALL. Be strict with this kid and do send him away at the slightest infraction. Be firm. Treat him how you would treat your own child if he were being so annoying. Give him consequences. At 11 years old he should know better. Our son was often asking neighbor kids to play at about age 5-6 and probably being a bit annoying but now at age 8 he knows to ask me to call first and not to annoy people. PS - We had two neighbor boys who loved to come over and play at that age but they were very polite. When they both turned 13 they completely became uninterested in younger kids and they never come over any more. So, there is hope for you that in a couple years this kid will be off the radar.
I think the kid that used to live next to us has moved next to you!
I sure empathize with your situation. Our nightmare neighbor kid was 7 and, unfortunately, my 5-year old idolized him. The kid was very clearly neglected and constantly wound up on our doorstep. There was always an "incident' when this kid came over. I was very seriously considering driving my son to Kindergarten this year rather than letting him take the bus because of this kid. Fortunately, the landlord evicted the family because they had illegally sublet to other families so multiple people were living in one small house. It has been such a relief since they left - we have our privacy back and there is no issue letting my son take the bus.
Any chance you can build a bigger fence between your house and the neighbors? I know it doesn't solve the root of the problem, but at least would give you your yard back. I am considering putting up a 6-foot fence between my yard and the neighbors, just in case we wind up with another nightmare situation again.
And I agree with some of the posters below - no more mixed messages. You're going to have to make it clear he's not allowed over anymore and I wouldn't allow my kids over to his house. I had to do something similar with our neighbor kid once he finally crossed the line with me. It's hard when it's a kid, but you deserve to enjoy your house and property in peace.
He sounds autistic to me and neglected. So sad on both accounts, but you do need to protect your kids first. So maybe set come clear guidelines, like 1/2 hour supervised play a day that you tell him up front and give him a 5 minute warning on toward the end. You can set a time for it and state that it must start with just one ring on the doorbell, etc. Also, state up front the behaviors that will end the play early. If he ever starts doing good with 1/2 hour of play, then you can consider making it longer. Good luck.
I am so sorry you have to put up with this. This kid sounds like a nightmare. I would talk to his parents/grandparents again. Bother them as often as the kid bothers you - maybe that will get them to do something about his behaviour.
I totally agree. Kid sounds exceptionally ADHD AND with an extreme lack of supervision/boundaries/proper raising. Did you buy our house six months ago? O.o ::sigh:: no I know you didn't bc they only had one kid and our nightmare child had a brother a year older that acted the same...... among other things they used our slip and slide while we were gone, left the water running for HOURS afterwards, and our neighbor's house flooded.....then there was the walk-in-our-house-cover-our-entire-guest-bath-in-feces-and-leave incident after which we fenced our entire yard, added spikes on the inside of the fence, locked the gates with padlocks, and triple locked our doors after adding lockable storm doors. Not. joking. It took a year to sell the house but they were a HUGE reaason we moved. Thus I don't have an answer for you. We quickly found out that these kids behaved the way they did bc their parents were the same way. They only stopped coming over banging down the door after we turned our .18 acre into Ft. Knox AND made some very intelligent, quiet, choicely worded cutting comments about their behavior. We had to make them not want to be around us before they would stop. That was all that worked. Having had experience with criminal behavior before as a young college girl, these people were the same type. Acted like fighting dogs in a trash heap or something. The only way to get them to leave you alone is to hurt them enough that they have no desire to be near you. We did have the police department watch our house for a week or two to keeps these kids away....but as soon as they stopped doing drive by's and sitting for awhile it was eagerly noticed and hello brats. Good luck! Ours took moving.....
Oh Lord, I feel for you! We had a neighbor boy like this except he was 5!!!! Thankfully, they moved. Lol. You've gotten great advice so far, I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. ((patting your back))
It sounds like he might be on the spectrum, given the description of his behaviors. If his parents/guardians aren't available to help, you may want to look up a bit of info on autism/ aspberger's to see if you can find any strategies to speak "his" language. If he is on the spectrum, he will not pick up on normal social cues. You will have to be painfully specific with him.
