I need some guidance. First let me say, I respect everyone's opinion and choices when it comes to parenting and I would like the same in return so I am asking mommies who believe in/understand/have used CIO for some practical guidance. If you think this method is heartless and cruel, more power to ya but please don't spend your precious weekend time telling me that.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, here's my issue...my son is 4.5 months old. He used to sleep great but recently everything changed (I posted about it last week I think) and now he is completely 100% hooked on the paci (before, he liked it and we used it when he was super worked up just to settle him down but he was able to stay asleep without it no problem). He had come to the point of waking up every 45 min or so wanting us to put it back in his mouth. It was like a drug, the second he got ahold of it he just relaxed and fell into a blissful sleep...for 45 minutes.
So at his 4 month appt the dr said its time to sleep train, we talked about methods for it, etc. I did it with my older son but he was quite a bit older when we finally resorted to it so doing it at this age is new to me. So she said, and I've read in several books, that we should try it for a few days and if it doesn't work, we can conclude that he's not ready and try it again a few weeks later.
My question is, how do you know if he's not ready vs that we haven't given it long enough to work? Now I admit we have not been 100% consistent but our dr said that's still ok at this age because he's at this golden window where he should have the ability to learn to self soothe but he's not quite at a point where he can purposely manipulate. So about once or twice each 24 hours (we've been doing it since Thursday morning) I give him the paci so he can get at least one good stretch of sleep to help prevent total overtired meltdown state in all of us. So maybe that's my problem, but I'm beginning to think he is not ready.
He has fallen asleep crying many times over the past few days of this but the time it takes him to cry is not getting any shorter, its just totally all over the board, and when he does fall asleep its more like he just passes out from exhaustion and less like he's found another way to soothe himself. I say this because when he falls asleep "on his own" after crying it out, he only sleeps for like 30 min before it starts all over again. Its brutal, my nerves are shot, I'm about to lose it. Another variation is sometimes, including at 3am this morning, he seems to get wired from the crying. He was wide awake, had stopped crying, was just looking around, rolling, like it was playtime. So again I'm thinking, maybe his system is not ready for this and the crying is having a stimulating affect sometimes, and other times he just passes out but is not really self-soothing.
So, fellow CIO-ers, thoughts?
He's too young. Maybe he's still hungry. Plus, kids are different. My older daughter was not sleep trainable. I don't care what anybody says.... they're not dogs they're people. She just wasn't wired to sleep much. My younger daughter slept through the night at 6 weeks. I didn't do anything different with either of them.
We used CIO, so I'm not opposed to it.
But I just don't think you can "teach" a 4.5 month old to self soothe just yet.
Hi--
Please understand that what I am about to say I say from the heart. I think it is important that you understand that it is not opinion that CIO is bad for the baby. It is scientific fact. Please do your research before subjecting your child to more of this. Here's some facts for you to take a look at.
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-...
For alternatives that work and are healthy for both you and baby check out "The No Cry Sleep Solution" or "The Baby Whisperer".
Also, a baby of 4 months old is developmentally (yes, this is scientific fact again) too young to self-soothe. It is impossible for their brain to do so at that young of an age.
I know you didn't want information from people who don't believe in this, and I am sorry I am crossing that boundary. I just thought it was incredibly important that you know that this isn't about opinion. CIO is truly harmful to your child. As a mother I would want this information for my children, which is why I am sharing it with you. I know you didn't want to hear this, but as a person with the information I felt like it was my duty to share it. If not for you, then for others who read this page. I know no one wants to unwittingly ever hurt their child.
Good luck!
J.
PS
One more thing. A child cannot developmentally purposefully manipulate until about the age of 3. Manipulation (having the forethought to get someone to do what you want) is a higher brain function. Children will cry/whine/etc to get their needs met, and will continue to do this if it works for them. That is not the same as manipulation.
I think you should talk to your pediatrician again.
Now, I am not for CIO, but I know many people who practice it. Those who are convinced it's a great way to sleep train your kid have all told me that it does not mean that you let your infant scream until he passes out! If that is what's happening then he is not ready!
All in all I think this is a case were I would apply the "Dr. Phil" principle as I call it... what you are doing may be what you think is the right thing, but "how is it working out for you?". It's doesn't appear to be working very well, so you may have to take into consideration that it may not be the right approach for your child, or that he is not ready.
Good luck.
4.5 months seems a bit young to do CIO. We waited until my daughter was 6 months old. It took 3 days. At 4.5 months, they still need to know someone is there. At 6-7 months, they have figured out how to work the system. I would give it another 1.5 months.
GL! :)
Sounds like his 'system' is not ready for this.
In my experience, the training is totally unnecessary and it's 100% about food intake. Even friends I know who successfully "trained" were able to do so because the babies weren't hungry at night. Babies often seem fine and satisfied druing the day, but could actually eat more, thus the reason they wake at night.
4 1/2 months is old enough to sleep through (just barely). My aunt, mother of ten, got all hers to sleep through in their own beds at 3 months, but they have to be FULL. This is tricky at 4 months, especially if you exclusively nurse and have a big hungry baby. Sometimes they simply NEED to nurse at night still, due to hunger, not security.
All your baby needs to be is FULL to full capacity (different for different kids) and then if you don't mess with them at night, they either A) self sooth or B) don't wake up to begin with.
Feed him more all day long, not just right before bed, offer more food more food more food. Once he has had a calorie increase for three whole days (takes a few days for body to register it) you can walk away at night and never go back. This worked with all of mine, but my 2nd and 3rd were still hungry at night until about 6 months because I was just nursing. That was my choice, so I fed them during the night for as long as I chose to nurse exclusively. But once I supplemented some formula and thickened bottles and added some food, boom, they were out all night.
Your little guy sounds hungry to me. I never allowed more crying than just a few minutes when they were first put down, and a little if they woke but I KNEW they were full. Otherwise I fed them. A hungry baby will not self sooth.
ps, I love Dr Sears vaccine info, but some of his attachment parenting theories are dead wrong, not so much that they might not be great ideas for some people, but many of his claims that other styles are damaging are wrong -proven by generations and millions of healthy babies. I cant' believe he gets away with some of his claims. Generations of self soothing CIO humans with no damage whatsoever are evidence of that. Don't let anyone tell you his word is indisputable scientific fact, it's very disputable. Respectfully to Jodi, kids not manipulating until age three? That's totally inaccurate crazy talk. Many different experts will back that up. I'm saying that from the heart and sorry to cross a boundary.
at 4.5 months old he is really too young to CIO BUT i would try to sleep train, dont go in right away when he is fussing if he can move around easily see if he cann find the bink himself to put it back in, or wait a few minutes to see if he can calm himself down, i am a FIRM believer in not running in right away to check on babies, i NEVER did with my daughter unless it was a while since she ate then it was probably time to feed her especially at night. i also think if you cater to a baby/kid too much they wil expect it and you will regret it later on. he may also be starting to teeth, my daughter started around 5 months But didnt get a tooth till almost a yr
At 4 months a baby is not ready to be left on their own to settle down and go to sleep. They can't really turn over at will and wriggle around to get more comfortable. They may wake up and be frightened or just plain lonely.
Also, at this age he should still be eating every few hours. I don't know any moms that had kids sleeping all night at this age. So I would say he needs to eat, then be helped back to sleep for at least another couple of months until he is able to move around well on his own and not need to have a bottle during the night.
So, I would say he is not old enough yet. If he doesn't get a good sleep pattern back for you in a couple of months then perhaps trying it again then might work.
Is he on a patterned schedule during the day? Eat play sleep eat play sleep...this will help him know what to expect and also regulates his metabolism.
I'm on my fourth baby and I have just loved the book On Becoming Baby Wise for each of them.
I think he's too young. I have two boys, we did CIO with both, but not until six months with the first and seven months with the second. I think you may have better results if you wait and try again later.
I didn't attempt CIO until just about 6 months. Maybe 5 1/2 months. No sooner. I think in practice it just works better if you can do it before they sit up on their own, so while you could do it later, I think it works best starting around 6 months. But I wouldn't do it much sooner.
hth
Is he hungry when he wakes up? At 4 months old, a baby still needs to eat at night in my opinion. I have 2 boys. I used the Ferber method on my youngest, but I'm not so sure we started until older than 4 months. The Ferber method is more systematic, and easier on the parent and baby. You only let him cry for a little bit (like a matter of a few minutes), then you go in and reassure him without picking him up. Then the next time you wait longer and longer. I'm not remembering the exact method, but you should check out his book. Needless to say, you have to feed or change the baby when he's waking at this age, and I'm pretty sure my pediatrician agreed. My Ferberized baby is now 3, and he was hooked on a nuk until a month ago. I will never use a nuk again (we'll see about that - I have another baby due next month!).
I remember how difficult sleep training was, but it sounds like it's really painful for you and your baby, and maybe he's not ready for it yet. Perhaps you could take a break and try again in a few weeks or a month or so.
I sleep trained my older daughter when she was 6 months old and we let her CIO. It took about a week or two, but the duration of the crying decreased each time and with the exception of the first night, I don't recall that she seemed to "pass out from exhaustion". My younger daughter was about 5 months old when we let her CIO and again, the duration of the crying decreased each time.
So I think if your baby is crying intensely each time that he is probably not ready yet. Does he have a "lovey"? If he doesn't have one, have him start to foster an attachment with one now so that when you try again in a few weeks it will help him soothe himself. A good book that I read that talked about good sleep habits and techniques to get baby to sleep was:
Good Night, Sleep Tight: The Sleep Lady's Gentle Guide to Helping Your Child Go to Sleep, Stay Asleep, and Wake Up Happy by Kim West.
Hang in there! It will get better.
J.
I wouldn't do it before 6 months. In fact, many of the big names in sleep training say to not do anything till 6 months, and they even agree that many babies need food till 12 months. (my daughter, did for instance, but my giant baby boy was always a good sleeper and didn't need as much food at night).
I am all for CIO--did it with all 3 of my boys, but not as young as 4 mos. The old guideline said you could begin at 4 mos, but now, even Dr. Ferber says that it really should be 6 mos.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but I think you need to wait 6 more weeks and try again.
I'm sorry you are going thru such a hard time. You must be exhausted! I had to let my daughter CIO at a VERY young age. I think before two months. I felt I had no choice. she just wasn't sleeping and THAT is the goal. do whatever you have to do so you are all getting enough sleep to function. How long is he crying before falling asleep? It helped me to time it what seems like a horribly long time may not be as long as you think if you check the clock. I would try soothing myself with deep breathing, it was very hard but after a week -we were sleeping on a regular schedule! I also noticed with two of my babies that they needed to cry for a few minutes to fall asleep. The research on harming a baby is when a baby's cries USUALLY go ignored. Continue to give your baby lots of attention and interaction during the day but help him learn that night is for sleeping. You've done this since Thursday, I'd try a little longer.
we are a CIO family! we have 3 boys, oldest is almost 3 years old and the twins are a month old. My oldest didnt sleep through the night until he was close to 8 months old, it was torture....we got so very blessed with the twins because they started to sleep through the night by 3 months. He may just not be ready, only YOU know your child and his habits etc. maybe he is still hungry or needing overnight feeds. I'm probably not going to give the best advice right now due to extreme exhaustion, our twins just had surgery on tuesday and are getting back to their normal routine so are waking up a couple times a night each. But I would maybe just feed him more before bed and see how that goes. good luck!
My first son learned to sleep through the night at 5 months after a few nights of modified CIO (I'd let him cry for up to 20 min before going to him). Before that, he was waking up 3-6 times a night. So, when my second son was still nursing 3 times a night at 5 months, I decided to try the same thing with him. I got him to drop down to 2 times a night, but could not budge him from that after a month of effort. So, I gave up and let him nurse twice a night. At 10 months, my pediatrician convinced me to try it again. This time, I went to him after 20 min, but wouldn't feed him. He ended up crying ALL night while I sat next to his crib, but every night after that, he slept through the night. I feel like my second son wasn't ready at 5 months to sleep through the night, but was sometime before 10 months and just needed one bad night to reset his system. So, I guess my advice is that if it isn't working for you now, take a break. Try something else for a while and then try to sleep train again later. Good luck!
Just seems a bit young. We started putting our youngest down awake, after a bottle, with his paci, at 7 mo. He slept like a dream after about 10 days.
