Need Feedback on How Principal Is Handling Student Problems

When trying to get to the bottom of an incident, the adult (parent, teacher, principal, bus driver, whoever) often have to ask those types of questions to fully investigate. It is what they do based on that information that truly matter.

She should have talked to the parents of the kids involved and those kids only, not thrown out a net to see what she could find, possibly embarrassing the kids involved in the process. I agree she handled it poorly, and I too would talk to her about it.

Good luck - our elementary school has had 3 principals in the span of time that my kids were there. This last permanent one seems to be no better than the others. None of them have been parents - which tells me something. You can go to school and get advanced degrees, you can spend all day with kids in an educational environment but not really understand them unless you've raised one yourself.

That being said, the principal was probably trying to get the details of what really occured. There are 3 sides to every story - yours, mine, and what really happened - which is somewhere in between. Give this princiapl a pass this time on the poor judgement. But I would ask in a non-confrontational way why others were asked about the situation.

You don't say what occured, but if it was anyting even remotely violent like rock throwing, a black eye, threatening, then the school has an obligation to act (and they often over-react) so no-one can say they didn't take neccessary precatutions.

Last year my son was told by kid A that he was going to beat up kid B. My son being friends with kid B, told him that kid A planned on beating him up after school. Kid A is known as a trouble-maker among the parents, and when he used to be allowed to come to our house he acted VERY inappropriately - all the time. I even wrote a formal requests that my son not be in the same class as kid A the following year. The principal told me that until other parents have the nerve to talk to the mom of kid A there's very little she can do as the school administrator unless something occurs at the school. When the beating-up threat came up my son was questioned -grilled on the events of that day. The principal called me about it and my son was nothing more than the kid that warned kid B. Personally I think the principal was trying to build a case to refer kid A for special attention based on the prior issues. When kid A's mom asked me about the situation I was very evasive. I don't want to get into it with this family.

So I don't know what to tell you specifically - it could be that it really was nothing, or it could be that the administrators were being overly cautious in light of all we know about bullying these days, or it could be that your child or the other child have displayed other symptoms of problems and the principal needs to have additional ammunition to get the child the care he needs. I would ask specifically if you think this is part of a bigger issue. Chance are it's not - but better to get that out of the way.

You walk a fine line with school officials - you want to get to the bottom of stuff but you don't want to piss them off becuase they will end up taking it out on your kid - they don't mean to but it's hard to separate mom's actions from the kid.

Walk gingerly into this meeting and don't put anyone on the defensive, beopen minded and ultimately - you are your child's best resource and advocate. You will handle this wondefully.

ask that issues between certain kids stay between those kids and their parents, if she doesnt' stop then take it to the school board

I don't know any principal who has ever done this and I moved around and taught in several schools. This really is creating problems.
Please be calm with her and explain it if she gives you the chance, especially if both sets of parents are in agreement.
(Although when my four year child was bullied, I would have loved her caring and concern. I would have thought she was the best.;0))

That line of questioning is the only way a principal can uncover the truth. While your child's incident was minor, not every one is. He/she has to investigate to make sure nothing serious occurred, and they can't just ask the students involved. As you can imagine, they aren't always truthful.

Here's an example of why this is necessary. A student of mine (fourth grade) punched a kindergarten student on the bus last year because the little guy swore at him (and, he swore because my student was taunting him). Now, my student gets off the bus, goes to the principal, and tattles that a student was swearing. My principal had to pull in the kindergarten student and any witnesses to determine what happened. And, she uses that line of questioning.

Again, your son's incident was minor, but not all of them are. I would rather a principal be thorough than dismissive. One day your child may truly have been disrespected, and you can rest assured that the principal will do his/her best to get to the bottom of it.

As a kid, I went to an elementary school where a beloved teacher had been molesting girls (students) in his classroom during the school day for years. Because the school was great and academically, the teacher was too, very few members of the school community if any- believed any of the kids who told on this teacher. No other students (who weren't being molested), parents of students who hadn't come forward on their own, other teachers, school administrator, etc. took an approach similar to your child's principle's to the complaints that did come in.

Eventually, tons of supporters- parents, teachers, administration etc. who sincerely believed in the accused teacher's innocence raised money in support of what became a criminal case against the accused teacher. The students who'd been complaining (and their families) became outcasts and others who'd been molested but hadn't told decided that they'd be better off keeping their molestation experiences secret rather than become a part of the ostracized group who spoke up. The teacher eventually faced several charges and eventually plead guilty to some...

Had adults and children been probed to get involved, and to speak up honestly at this school, I'm sure the outcome would've been different, the teacher wouldn't have gotten away with so much for so long, and more 'victims' would've felt comfortable speaking up.

I do understand your concern, and annoyance- especially if the issue at hand is not a detrimental one- there is a fine line. But I think overall the approach your child's principle takes sounds like a difficult necessity in building community, promoting accountability, and honesty.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Unless this was a major incident of bullying or a fight where many people were involved why would this method be used? Kids will side with the person they like often not the one who really started the incident. She just does not want to make a decision based upon facts and what she knows about these kids herself. She needs to take a class on this because there are behavioral signs that help in these matters and just approaching questions in different ways etc to find out the truth. The method of questioning is a correct method just not involving too many students for a minor incident is not. Yikes!

Updated

I agree with the other moms ,she is blowing something minor way out of proportion. (Esp if the situation has been pretty much resolved). If there were criminal activity of some kind going on/ or a serious injury were involved, that would be different. We , and school staff should be trying to teach kids how to come to their own resolutions or compromises , life learning lessons on how to deal with people and issues. Surely , she has more important things to be doing with her time than chase trouble that might not exist. She's also alarming parents and their kids when she sends out senseless emails. She needs to learn which battles to truly fight. I think she should be looking into ways to help kids, like forming a peer group for minor issues among kids. even in 3rd, 4th, 5th grade they know right from wrong, they might just need help in coming to a resolution .
She should be looking for Grant money to help with programs that are disappearring instead. If it happened away from and after school, why was she involved anyway ?

C. S.

It does sound a little whack -but you really didn' give enough information...I would liketo know what the incident was. and examples of other incidents. And also did it happen ON school grounds-just after school? B/C if it wasn't on the premises you should not even meet with her. And it is a violation of your privacy if she is letting people know about it.

Regardless of what actually happened, the principal acted appropriately.

What if this was a MAJOR event involving your child and another? Would you not want the principal to pursue the root cause and define what occurred in exactly the same way? Consistency is important, and that is what your principal is demonstrating and role modeling- something happened that was enough for other kids to take notice and discuss. The principal is sending a valuable and important message.

Is she a new principal?
Sounds like someone I knew once who, as a new authority figure, wasn't really sure how to handle things.
Every tiny thing became a huge deal. She lost a lot of respect from parents and teachers and didn't last in that job very long. Got moved to another teaching position in a related school.

If she is a new administrator, exercise more patience in your talk with her. Let her know that the parents will respect and appreciate some discretion as she talks to the students. No class interrogations. Discussions such as this should be in private for so many reasons.

L., As the mother of 5 who has seen many negative and positive things with children and a husband who was a teacher I want to add just a thought.
With so many things going on today that start out as one thing and then escalate to others it is a wise leader that makes situations public to teach by example what will happen as a rule in all situations and that they are taken serious both small and big. What may not be a big deal to you or the other mother, but in most areas the school is still responsible for the students actions until they reach either home or the day care after school and can be sued for failure to protect a child. All it takes is one bully incident and you will appreciate the fact the principal has set this standard. We have a Special Needs child.. he was mistreated, teased, made fun of by a few students at school- but mostly after--Personally I wanted to take each and everyone before the school district, with thier parents-- but my 16yo son did it better. He talked to the Principal then He took his brother to school and found the kids that were 5th graders and told them he was the big brother and would they keep an eye on this guy esp as a favor to him so his brother was safe as he was being harmed by some kids. The Principal said it made a differance to the 5th grade class and they set up a buddy program for a older and younger student to watch out for one another.
This seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill to you, but what happens today may prevent a shooting , a bully, a angry child really harming another, a serious fight some day into the future. So I give this Principal great credit for using preventative means-- so a message does not have to be sent to parents that someone was seriously injured, or worse.

Not knowing what the situation is, it's hard to say. For a little incident, such as you indicated, then I don't see the problem with asking as a group who was around, who saw something and what did they see. First, it lets the other kids know that whoever did not get away with something. Second, it's the principals job to get to the bottom of things, especially when there is going to be a parent meeting. The principal has to gather as many facts as possible and what better way than to seek out witnesses. Now, if it is something that is sensitive, then I would say that a group inquiry would not be appropriate, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

If something serious goes down like a really big fight or something illegal, then I get asking everyone who may have been around and bringing most of the students in on it. However, if there's a minor altercation, argument -that sort of thing, it needs to stay between the offending parties and their parents. If one of the kids says, "So and so was there too and they saw this or they did that," then get so and so in there, but not everyone.