Mommy Poll: Her room...her Space?

My daughter (now 17) was a complete slob and I just closed her door.

When she got older and friends would come over, she started caring a LOT more about the cleaniness of her room.

You would never know right now that about 3 yrs ago you could not walk into her HUGE walkin closet and right now it is organized so perfectly I don't let her see my closet anymore!! It looks like a retail store in there!!

Let it go.
As long as there is no food rotting in there, and as long as she understands that toys left on the floor are likely to get stepped on and broken, and will NOT be replaced if that happens, let it be her choice. Once she loses a few toys to breakage from being stepped on, she will pick them up.

My 4.5 year old can keep part of her room clean but not the whole thing. She can put her toys in the bins and her dress up clothes in thier box, but she needs my help when it comes to putting clothes away. Then there are always those items she drags in from other rooms that I have to help with too. This is my plan: I will continue to help her clean her room all the while directing her where possible so she learns to do it herself someday (won't that be nice). She does not have the motivation to clean her own room now, but voices her preference for a clean room. So I will never let her have free reign to be a mess all the time, because I think its important for them to be reminded how nice a clean room is. I do and will insist on a clean room once a week, even if I have to help her do it. If she chooses not to clean up in-between, then that will be her choice, but I will not let her go weeks on end with it getting worse and worse.

Neither!

At 4y/o I believe (just my opinion mind you) that it is your/my job to pick up my/your kids' rooms WITH their help! By helping you are teaching them how to be tidy and clean up after themselves. Little by little, step by step, day by day, as your lil' person gets bigger and older the job of cleaning their own room will *eventually* become theirs and theirs alone.....but NOT at 4 years old.

I think expecting a 4y/o to clean their room all by themselves and keep it clean is completely unrealistic.

Can't wait to read the others perspectives! :)

I think (given her age) that you still need to work with her on keeping her room at least relatively picked up. When she's older and has more personal responsibility, then I completely agree with the "if you can't find it, it's your problem" mentality. As I said, though, she is still young and still needs a lot of parental guidance.

ETA: As long as you're giving the step guidance (each chore group at a time as you mentioned), I think you're doing fine. If it's a particularly large grouping (for example, occasionally my 3 1/2 year old will end up having pulled ALL of her books off of her bookshelf before bed) I would help her, if for no other reason than to speed up the process. I interpreted your original post as saying that you just send her in to clean her room and be done with it. :) My bad!

I think now is the time to fight the battle. At 4 my kids cleaned their rooms at the end of every day, with my help of course. Now they do it one their own. When they are teens I will allow them more leeway, but I will do so knowing I taught them good habits young, and that now it is up to them to find their own way.

That depends on whether there are other battles to fight! If you have "bigger battles", then no. If she's throwing killer tantrums or aggressive or eating only cupcake frosting, then I would let this one go for now until the other more urgent battles are won.

If she's not currently battling with you over other issues, then yes I would fight this one. While it's "her space", it's "your house" and "your money" that is paying for the broken/lost/ruined items. We are very neat people, but I've let go of my need to have the beds made every day b/c that isn't a battle worth fighting (unless we have company coming over early in the evening). I do insist that toys, books and clothing are put away before bed.

My older child is also 4 and while he doesn't get the concept of "neat and clean" like an older child would, he does understand that he needs to take care of his things and our home. When he's paying his bills, he can live like he wants to. Until then, he needs to learn how to respect his things and his home and the time and effort (and resources) put into those things.

I let my kids get to a certain point then I help them clean up. I will continue to do this now while they are still young. As they get older I'll probably allow them to live in their own messiness.

I see your moms point.

(I had a messy room as a kid too and now can't stand a dirty house)

I agree with your mom. I am a grandma to a 6 year old boy. He loves to clean, except for his room at my house. He has had his own room since he was born. I feel that my home is his home too. I retired when he was born so he would not have to go to daycare all day. I am not a neat freak, but I like a clean house. I did set some rules.about his room. No food in his room. No throwing things (things can break) no locking the door & no climbing on things. He & I are fine with this, but his mom goes through the roof. We just shut his door before she picks him up after work. every once in a while he decides that HE wants to clean or re-arrange his room. Right now he enjoys his room. Good luck

I think at 4 years old it is actually your job to keep her room clean. That is a huge responsibility for a child so young. You can clean it together and try to make keeping it clean something you do together. But I really think you are expecting too much from a 4 year old.

It sounds like your daughter has more stuff than she can manage. Time to purge! Then pack some of her toys away and rotate what's in her room in a few months. If you haven't already, box up any clothing that still fits but isn't seasonally appropriate and put it on the top shelf of her closet.

I used to have this argument with my mom, she expected me to always have my room spotless. My argument was two pronged, one, no one ever came over to see my room so it wasn't like anyone would see it unless she opened my door. The second is how I keep my room is no reflection on her.

There was a third I never articulated but by not cleaning my room I had more time to clean the house that she was clearly never interested in cleaning. :( Mom was a bit of a princess type and since dad wouldn't let her pay for a cleaning lady I guess she figured I was good enough.

So with my kids I expect it clean enough that I don't live in fear that the health department may come knocking at my door. I also expect that if they have friends over their room be clean enough that they won't be the talk of the town. The latter falls back on the health department demand.

Funny thing, like you, I am a very clean and organized adult so I don't really live in fear that I am creating a life long problem. Two of my kids are adults, the girl will come over and clean my house if she doesn't feel it is organized enough. So it would appear the next generation is the same. :)

I think it's a battle you should partially fight!! The rules for my kids' rooms are: the floor has to be a little junk-free so I can vacuum; dirty clothes MUST be in their laundry basket and by ALL means... absolutely NO food or drink in their rooms EVER - other than water!!

They are not permitted to leave any junk in the family room, kitchen, etc.; if it lays around too long, I'll tell them once to put it away and if it's not put away within a day or two, then it goes in the give-away box or garbage - depending on what it is.

I really don't say too much about their rooms - I totally get that it's their space and like I said, to a certain extent - I really don't care how junky it looks, etc. I know they're capable of cleaning it (and they DO every once in awhile!) so that's all I really care about.

In my opinion, your daughter will clean it when she gets tired of stuff sitting around. And especially the older she gets, she'll probably change her room around like a typical girl and clean it out then too.

Good luck!!

If you abandon things to your mom's attitude of "let her keep her space her way" now -- you'll never be able, when your girl is older, to tell her with any authority that she must clean her room. And yes, at some point -- when you smell a funky smell from under the bed, or discover that she's totally out of underwear because she's been shoving it in a corner instead of in a hamper -- you WILL end up telling her she must clean her room. I think kids do not necessarily "grow out of" a messy room as they get older, if they have not ever been shown how to break down tasks and clean up a room in a manageable way.

I don't think a four-year-old really has a right to an expectation of "my space" the way kids do as they get older. By about six and seven, it gets started with requests for mom and dad to leave them alone do to their stuff in their rooms, and certainly by older elementary ages one should be respectful of the idea; I knock on my 11-year-old's door before entering, etc. But you are absolutely right: You need to teach your child to respect her own space at age four, so that when she's older you do not have gigantic battles with her.

If you are already giving clear, one-step or two-step directions and NOT ever saying the dreaded, "Clean up your room," you're getting there OK. Saying "clean up your room" to any young child is overwhelming; they don't know where to start so they do nothing. Break it into specific directions: "Put all the books on that shelf right there." Only when that's done do you issue another: "Now, let's see how fast we can get all the stuffed animals into their bin." And so on. But not ever "clean up your room" at this age. She's cleaning it up, indeed, but task by task, and if it's such a disaster that it can't be done in two to three tasks, then you need to clean it up yourself to jump-start the process -- but be sure to leave her those two to three specific things to do herself. Praise her a lot when she does them -- more than you really think is worth it. She will be motivated by that.

Make it daily to have her do two specific, small tasks like "Put today's clothes into the hamper and shut the lid" and/or "Before bed, put all the books on the shelf."

But the idea of "my space, my stuff, my mess, leave it alone" at four? Oh, no way. I think kids have to earn that with both responsibility and age, not be left to think they can trash an area, even their own special area.

Try to emphasize with her how you and she discover cool things she thought were gone, if she keeps her room clean.

There is a middle ground. As a parent, it's our job to help control how much "stuff" gets into the room to begin with and is accessible on a daily basis. If she is one to leave things everywhere in her room, then have fewer things. A small selection of toys and books and a smaller wardrobe are easier to manage. This means purge the stuffed animal collection, don't have a bunch of decorative pillows, and store out of season and holiday clothes out of reach.

Beyond that, I don't think it's worth fighting on a daily basis. Our rules are that as long as they clean up for company - either us having our own guests over or them inviting a friend over - then on a daily basis I won't harass them about having everything tidied up.

She's too young to know how to keep her room clean but she's not too young to learn how to put things away. But you'll have to be realistic about what the end result will look like.

Set a few rules, like no food in the room, and give her a couple organizational tools, like the hamper for dirty clothes and a shelf for books. Beyond that, you will expend lots of energy for little return if you want her room to stay neat. And considering what you said about yourself and your mom, it looks like your daughter doesn't have the genetic material for neatness in childhood. If it doesn't drive you completely mad, just close that bedroom door and save your energy for more important things like having fun with your daughter.

I don't know. I understand what your mother is saying. And I certainly understand not wanting to have a daily battle. I get that. But can you live with it messy all the time? Can you handle the frustration of not being able to find something? The inevitable broken toys? The sore foot when you step on one of those darn legos?

I couldn't. I can't. In our house we clean up when Daddy calls to say he's coming home. Which gives us about 30 minutes or so. We clean up daily, so it usually doesn't get too out of control and I am ok with projects staying out. And if my daughter has spent the last four hours playing with her little people and village she created, it can stay out too, because most likely, she'll play with again the next day. So I guess in our house, we meet in the middle. I have worked hard at organizing her room in such a way that everything is accessible and even if she dumps every toy and bucket, we could get things picked up relatively easily (thank you IKEA). (BTW may daughter will be four next month and she pretty much cleans her own room, so I don't know that your expectations are too high).

I think at four, she is still learning how to treat things. How to respect her toys and property. And yes, she needs her own space, but she also needs to learn how to treat that space. It doesn't have to be perfect or pristine, but it should be liveable.

If she were older, I'd say leave her be. By then she will have learned cause and effect. "If I leave my beloved X on the floor, someone may accidentally crush it when they come in here". Right now, she is oblivious to that.

I say all this, but these things are not really battles in our house. Of course we have days, but most of the time our kids are ok with cleaning up their areas. So maybe my opinion would change if I were fighting my kids on this each day. Good luck mama!

We kind of held a middle ground with SD. Twice a month, it needed to be clean enough to vacuum and the trash had to be out and no food in there. No experiments in the milk glass. Ew. As long as it didn't attract bugs or be a fire hazard, and she could close the door, it was OK. And as for her desk or walls or dresser were concerned - mostly it didn't matter as long as it wasn't food or something.

My DD is 4 also and we have her help us clean up. She can't just "clean your room" solo. She needs direction. We try to keep it from being a hazard - clothes in the hamper, books on the shelf, toys in the bin...but it's not spotless.

We let her mess up her room during the week, but she HAS to clean it up on Sat. or Sun.

She is 4.
She is young.
This is Preschool age. They are not rocket scientists about adult expectations of decorum or neatness or ideals.
Sure, teach her things about living environment. But she is 4, thus any learning curve about it, will be, per her age and her cognition and motor skills etc. A 4 year old does not have the same priorities as an adult, nor like an older child.
Then there are age phases as well, per emotions and cognition and communication and even their own "preferences" and taste, changes too.
Thus, just because she is a hurricane of a child now, that does not mean, it is permanent nor how she may be all of her life. It is now. A young child thinks about the "now." Not about future tenses.

I have kids that are now 6 and 9. They have their own chores and their own ways of "cleaning." It is not *my* way... but they in their own age and respective to their own ages... they may clean and tidy up, as they see fit or are capable of. Then I also help them... or teach them, or coax them too, and I will tell them things like "Hey, good job at cleaning!" Then if I think they need a "tip" from me, I tell them "Hey, Mommy has a good tip for you next time you tidy up.... " and then I explain it to them and I ALSO ask their opinion on it. ie: "Do you think Mommy's cleaning tip, makes sense to you?" Then that way, I see *their* age related perspective on it. But I am just generally glad, that they are glad to tidy up and "help" Mommy... and keep "their" home, tidy. I don't expect it to look like a museum & I do not expect them to do it JUST like me... because, I just want them to learn, to be self-reliant and to "like".... keeping their home, well kept. Per their own, ability. When I encourage them... it also gives them an incentive, to maintain their chores etc. But if I were to convey to them that they have to do it JUST like me, then well... any kid or adult would get irked and not want to do it... because, NO one, can do cleaning PERFECTLY enough. So therefore, I give my kids compliments on their ability to do it, and thus, it gives them a sense of being "proud" of doing it.
Then that way, my kids AND I, reach a level of satisfaction, about it.
That, encourages the child to learn... the concepts of respect and neatness and just everyday, things we need to do.

And YES, a child needs to have a sense of their own "space." And of their own belongings etc. But for me, I do not "battle" with my kids about it. As I converse with them, about their space, I see their own "logic" about why they have things in a certain place and how they THINK they did clean.... to the best of their ability. The main thing to me, is that they try THEIR best. And per age, their ability to do so, increases. Again, expecting age appropriate, ability for things like this.

It is a continuum. How they clean now, will vary and change, per age and ability. And in their basic understanding of it.
No adult I know... has been the same way all their lives since they were Toddlers. We all, change and in our style of "cleaning" too. So keep in mind, your daughter is now 4. They are a rock collecting moss. And no human or child, is static. We all change and in our abilities to "clean."

Honestly, I would not fret about it.
She is 4.
And she has all of childhood, to "learn" about cleaning/respect/tidyness etc. With Mommy's help.
No 4 year old, can clean an entire room... much less do it just like their Mommy would. They are not us, and we are not them.
My kids at that age, they didn't clean as.... well, as they do now. And my kids are 6 and 9, and I still help them or give them cleaning tips. I don't expect them to know all about it or to do it like an expert.
They have their own ways too. And their own space. And it is fine.
No battles.

I'm a fence post sitter on this one.

On one hand. NO. This is NOT a battle I'd fight.
On the other hand... YEP! I certainly helped my son clean his room at age 4, and 6, and 8, and 10.

It's just never a battle. We crank up some music, and clean things up. Most of the time it's a mess. And it's his room. IF he actually doesn't want it clean, I'd leave it. But it's not that he doesn't want it clean, it's just that (fairly common with ADHD kids), the actual cleaning aspect is incrediably difficult for him AND he knows where everything is. (My mum calls it "the piling system").

Also ADHD, I get this. And my room, as well, was a disaster until I moved out. I cannot express how grateful I am that my mum chose to quit fighting this particularly ugly battle with me at some point. Might as well demand I fly. It wasn't something that, at the time, I was capable of. My oldest friend, otoh, had a MISERABLE childhood ONLY because of this issue. Daily fights, and I kid you not.

BEFORE my mum changed her tune? I REMEMBER how mad my mum used to get, and WORSE the disgust and sneering when she'd "help" me clean my room. It made me physically ill. The judgement, disappointment, frustration, and disgust KILLED me. I hated myself. I hated her (for making me feel that way). It was awful. Absolutely awful.

The rest of the house? He's been helping me clean it since before age 2. That's 'easy' for him... because it's not his stuff. Once it becomes 'our' stuff, however, this kind of ADHD blur kicks in along with fear of moving something you know exactly where it is (about shin level, to the left of simething shiny, near something orange, 3 inches below the yellow paper).

She should be able to keep her room clean at 4 ... with your help. At 4, she should be expected to put her clothes in the hamper when she gets undressed and pull up her covers when she wakes in the morning. However, from general playing? She needs help cleaning up. You may need to sit with her and give direction or help her. But that's okay too. Don't we want our kids to feel "help" is a good thing, so they are more likely to offer help to others?

You should teach her how to respect her room and her home. You also have a right to expect that your home is easy to dust, vaccum, and walk across. Now maybe it doesn't have to be perfect, but you are totally entitled to some minimal neatness and safety. So a perfectly made bed? No. Good effort to be responsible? Yes.

I have a 4 year old and 8 year old. It only gets worse with age.

I agree with you... for now. I think that she needs to be taught to put things where they go and not live in a total disaster zone at 4 years old. At 4 you have to make it really easy for her to know where things go and you have to help her put things away. So for example, if she gets out a puzzle she needs to play with it or put it away before she gets out something else. If she's allowed to get out every toy she has, it becomes overwhelming to clean up.

There are age appropriate expectations for how much kids should be able to do. She should be able to put her toys away, put her dirty laundry in the hamper, set the table, throw away her trash, bring her dishes to the sink, match socks in clean laundry... there are probably lots of other things she could do.

My feeling is that if you take the time to teach kids how to do things, and enlist their help, it makes your job so much easier later when you expect them to do things. So many parents do it for their kids because it's faster and easier and then when they're 9 the parents are complaining that they don't help in the house.

Your expectations aren't too high. I think when she's older (like preteen/teen) it's not worth the battle and you should just shut the door.

I don't think 4 is too young to at least keep her room picked up - toys and clothes off the floor. That is really all I would insist on - that you can walk on the floor. Other than that, yes, I do think kids should have some control over their room, as well as their appearance (what they wear).

At this age a room is a pretty big deal. It sounds like you need to break it down for her, maybe a chart of pictures of each separate thing (clothes, toys, books) to check off? Or maybe a timer set to spend say, 5 minutes, cleaning before she can come to each meal? It may not get done that way, but it is good to reward effort, so that would be a start.

To teach a child how to do critical thinking is hard. Especially for those of us who didn't learn it as a child.

This is how you get a child to clean their own room.

"Sweetie? I need you to help me. I need you to pick up all your books and put them on the book shelf. Thank you." Then give them time to do that. You can use verbal prompts to get her to do this too.

Then when that is done you say similar words but give her a different task....

""Sweetie? I need you to pick up all dirty socks in your room and put them in the hamper in the hallway".

And so forth. It teaches her to sort items, into categories, to recognize the differences in items, to do all sorts of things. This also makes the job much more manageable.

Have you seen that show "Hoarders" on TV. Think about it like this. You are the person coming in to clean that home. You have 30 minutes to be done. No arguing, no help, no one at all to tell you what is under all of it, nothing. That's sort of like how a child is bombarded with a general command of "clean your room". They need specific simple instructions on how to accomplish this.

Making the big job a bunch of smaller ones is so much easier for a child. Also at 4 this should be fun and not a chore.

She should get to be a helper and you should be in there too until the room is less for her to manage.

Streamlining her belongings will also help her to be able to manage it better.

Here's an example of how to manage her clutter: In child care we have tons and tons of toys. So many it's crazy!

How do you think it would look to parents coming in to see if they want to use a facility if there were piles of toys all over the room, they could not see the tables, the carpet, the windows even. They would think someone didn't have very good organizational skills.

They may not chose this facility due to how disorganized it is. It's not a fun place to be either. The kids are wandering around with nothing to do, no toys are being played with, they are getting into trouble because they have nothing to do.

So we do not put everything out all the time. We rotate the toys every couple of weeks. This allows the kids to be excited to see an old favorite or to see something they might have missed ever seeing before.

Changing/rotating the toys and other belongings allows the kids to be able to manage their space so much better.

Right now, with the change of seasons coming sometime soon, I am going through the kids clothes and having them try on everything. IF it looks like they could wear it in the spring when it gets warmer it goes in one tub. If it's not something they can use in next year it goes in another tub to be passed down to younger siblings or friends.

I take the fall/winter clothes out of storage in the next month and start getting them washed and ready for cooler days. Can you imagine the mess if I just left all their clothes in their closet all year where they could take them down to play in them? I don't allow that. Clothes are way too expensive.

I do think that at 4 it should be fun for her. You are teaching her how to manage her belongings. She is not old enough to do this yet. She does not have the mental abilities to do this until she is may 12. Her cognitive abilities are not developed enough to do this independently until then. She will need physical help now, please try to make it fun, and they around 7 she should be able to do it by you giving her simple one step commands like I wrote out above, then around 12 she should be able to do this by herself with little promptings.