Make Son More Ambitious

He needs to go out on his own and taste real life. Who knows he just might snap out of it.

Updated

He needs to go out on his own and taste real life. Who knows he just might snap out of it.

I agree that you simply can't "make" another person more ambitious. (Can anyone make you more ambitious?) But you might be able to help him figure out what he needs to make more effort seem worthwhile.

You don't mention your son's age, but the book How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk is a wonderful and practical resource. Your son may well have issues about "everything" that he hasn't been able to talk over with you because he is afraid you won't understand. This book will teach you how to be more empathetic to your son's natural feelings and needs. If that's what needs to happen here, then you will probably find that he's suddenly more able to hear your needs and concerns, too.

Sample the book here: http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/038081....

Inform him that he has every right to make his own choices and choose his own lifestyle, but not to choose what goes on in your house. Therefore, you will expect him to move out on his 18th birthday. Then STICK TO IT, no matter how loudly, frequently, or eloquently he complains. Pack up his stuff, leave it in front and change the locks if you have to. Answer all his complaints the same way - living his life on his own terms means living on his own, out of your house. He may find a friend or two who will let him sleep on their couch for a few days, but NOBODY will put up with his attitude for longer than that.

We parents tend to feel that we're "good" parents when our kids are happy, and "bad" parents when our kids are upset, but this is not actually the truth. DO NOT feel guilty about putting any limits on him (or any other children you have).

He will eventually find out that his opinions, no matter how brilliant, do not control the world, but only if he's forced to be an adult, paying his own bills. Deep down he knows that he can't get his way by unleashing one of his elaborate arguments on a boss, a landlord, a utility or phone company employee, etc. That's why he wants to stay in your home, doing nothing and criticizing everything.

Tell him daily - hourly, if necessary - that making jis own choices and living life on his own terms means living seperately from Mom and/or Dad and paying his own way. DON'T let him manipulate you by giving in and getting a part time job or pitching in with a few chores. If he wants to live as an adult, he has to take on adult responsibilities. DO NOT feel guilty or bail him out if he doesn't have a job, loses his place to live, can't buy groceries etc. when he's on his own. He'll have EXACTLY the kind of life HE is able to create FOR HIMSELF.

I know this sounds excessively harsh, but he's almost legally an adult. You did your job by teaching him your values, etc. and providing for him. What becomes of his life now is up to him, not up to you.

He's bright enough to figure it out on his own, or fail on his own.

I like that you said he 'seems to be so lazy'. You are not labeling him, which in your position is quite an accomplishment.

A lot of people with a certain type of ADHD are often labeled as lazy. Get him tested, and there is a book on the brain that may help you: Magnificent Mind At Any Age by Dr. Daniel G. Amen, MD He talks about the arguing thing too, and how to deal with it.

I hate the overdiagnosis, but this sounds like a classic case, and a brain scan could find out for sure. Meanwhile, check out his diet. You only have a few months before he is an 'adult', so work like his life depends on it.

You can't 'make' him be more ambitious. You need to distinguish what is in his control, and what is in your circle of control.

I understand some of the challenges that come with being really gifted. Many gifted kids fall short of their potential if they are bored in school, or just don't have ways of challenging themselves productively. If gifted kids don't receive adequate support and encouragement while they are young, it can really become a problem - they don't have positive ways to focus all their abilities and energies. In addition, it is normal part of teenagehood for many kids to go through some of the rebellion against all the things in society that seem wrong or lame (such as meaningless homework).

I would suggest a few things. I would talk with people in your school district about what resources they have for gifted kids. You may need to try a number of people before you find people who can help, but there are probably some teachers who have experience with this even if they are not official 'gifted and talented' personnel.

It is unfortunate that it is so late in the game for him, but they may have some ideas about how to help your son engage with an area of interest. In our family, we have supported our kids so they have gone ahead in certain areas (math, science, music, and other things), and they do independent projects in some classes rather than the regular work, so they have more challenge and creative outlet. In his case, his bad grades might prevent him from gaining acceptance at certain advanced programs, but there may be ways he could move into a college or university program that would be of interest to him. Does he have any interests he wants to pursue? doesn't matter what they are, whether it is writing or theater or engineering or saving the whales - whatever he is interested in, you need to find a way to engage him in that.

Our oldest daughter has been starting to 'underachieve' in school, and what we have learned is that we can't force her to study or get good grades. But what we can do is educate her about her options. She wants to go to medical school? great! But if she chooses to let her grades fall, then she may not get into med school. That' something she now knows, and it's her choice -- either she picks up the grades, which she is doing, thankfully, or maybe needs to think about a different career path. We are trying to make it as clear as can be what the consequences may be if she chooses one path or another, and leave it to her to decide what to do. It's not easy, I know, but they have to take responsibility for their choices. There is no other way.

You really need to talk with your son about what he wants for himself in life. Does he want to flip burgers at McDonalds? Does he want to go to college? Work in some professional environment?

But I would get clear first on YOUR limits. Is it really ok with you that he won't do chores, or that he argues and is manipulative with you? Are you ok with him living with you indefinitely and not contributing to the household? If not, then you need to create new rules that do not allow certain behaviors. There probably need to be some 'tough love' decisions there, and I would definitely recommend reading some of the Love & Logic books for help with how to do this appropriately. Overall, you must stop allowing him to manipulate you, and you have to allow him to experience the consequences of his decisions - whether that is to not graduate, not have money, perhaps not be allowed to live at your home any longer, or whatever it may be.

You are not doing him any favors by enabling his irresponsible behavior.

I wish you the very best.... take care.

Hi T.,

I think I understand your position very well. I have an ILcousin who is 34 at the time still lives with parents because he is too bright/smart/educated to work for the "peanuts" they pay out there. So he lives with parents on their retirement income. Father makes him breakfast every morning, the guy plays videogames, reads magazines, watches movies, spends his time as he pleases. Mom is going mad because she watches as her son waisting his life. No work, no marriage, no grandkids. The young lad is well read, college graduate, bright, tallented and....completely useless. I told him one time he is like a fish in bowl looking outside - people passing buy, going places, what's the rush? fish thinks, why are they so in the hurry?

This family , in my opinion, made a big mistake after the guy graduated from college and was not able/willing/ready to take a job. They took him back! He never left. In my opinion as a parent you have to push sometimes your overgrown chick out of the comfortable parental nest - fly, baby, fly! We raised you, payed for your education, you are on your own now. You will succeed, you just have to try hard, that's the position you have to take.

I know people who allow their kids to live with parents but only if a child has a goal- like saving for a house, car, further education.

Your son is in HS, almost an adult, it is hard to "make" him to do or "want" anything. Does he have a passion in life? What profession/education does he want to pursue?

Have a conversation with him a get some plans straight. Is he planning to go to college? What is doing to get there? I think you mentioned that his grades are not great. If not, what is his job choice after HS? Be firm, let him sweat it a bit, tell him that after HS he is expected to get a place of his own. Remind him frequently, so he will not get too comfortable. If he thinks that he is smart - he needs to prove it.

Good luck. I wish you great will and wisdom.

I know that research indicates that our brains don't mature until much later than we had originally thought, and as a couple of other respondents have shared, perhaps your son has a physical or psychological reason for this. I understand that, too, because our daughter is autistic, and she isn't able to live on her own. So a check-up would probably not be a bad idea.

That said, if there isn't a legitimate physical or mental disability at work here, the best antidote to a lackadaisical attitude about life is to actually be responsible for creating your life for yourself.

It's so hard to be tough about this, because we love our children so much, but, seriously, if all of your living expenses were taken care of, you didn't have to do any chores, and your job were to go spend six hours a day sitting at a desk (a job which will soon come to an end, so even that limited responsibility disappeared), how ambitious would you be?

If your son is a genius, he can hopefully understand that he is almost a legal adult. Once he's 18, it's up to you, not him, to decide when he moves out. I think our generation of parents has been so well educated and concerned about giving our children the best of everything that we've deprived them of the satisfaction of earning it for themselves. I know that I valued the things I had to provide for myself (first used car--old, first apartment) much more because I knew that they were the result of my own efforts and my own decisions. Now that I look back, I am grateful for the education my parents provided for me through my first year of college, but at the time, it just seemed like what parents were supposed to do, and I took it for granted.

At this point, maybe your son is ready to experience the natural consequences of his choices.

This is truly a challenge, and I wish you and your son the very best. Hopefully, in ten years you will all be able to look back on this time and congratulate yourselves on how well you all pulled through it. But I don't think allowing him to continue to live with you while making no contribution to your household or to his own future is in the best interest of anyone involved.

Hi T.,

My Mom has and still does go through this with my 21 year old brother. His lack of motivation boggles my mind. The two of us couldn't have turned out more differently. A year or two ago, I suggested that my Mom go to counseling to learn how to feel okay about not enabling my brother anymore. While she still has a long way to go, she did make him move out (to her granny apt. behind her house) and says that she makes him pay rent. He is now 21 and while in community college, only recently got his drivers license, and still doesn't have a job (he had a large sum of savings from when he was a kid that he's living off of - aka his crutch). Enabling your son is only going to make this get worse. You have received some great advice here and I just want to reiterate some of it because I think it's important for you to re-read it and let it sink in. So, I've copied and pasted some of the relevant blurbs:

But I would get clear first on YOUR limits. Is it really ok with you that he won't do chores, or that he argues and is manipulative with you? Are you ok with him living with you indefinitely and not contributing to the household? If not, then you need to create new rules that do not allow certain behaviors. There probably need to be some 'tough love' decisions there, and I would definitely recommend reading some of the Love & Logic books for help with how to do this appropriately. Overall, you must stop allowing him to manipulate you, and you have to allow him to experience the consequences of his decisions - whether that is to not graduate, not have money, perhaps not be allowed to live at your home any longer, or whatever it may be.
You are not doing him any favors by enabling his irresponsible behavior.

Lastly, he will absolutely get a job and move out because you will ensure that he does. Once he is 18, he will be an adult. Continuing to pay for his shelter, food, utilities, car, etc., only serves to debilitate him. You can begin charging him rent at that point and stop paying for car or phone services. He might need this push from you. If I can be of any further help, feel free to contact me. I've worked with parents with this exact issue. You are not alone.

Once he's 18, it's up to you, not him, to decide when he moves out. I think our generation of parents has been so well educated and concerned about giving our children the best of everything that we've deprived them of the satisfaction of earning it for themselves. I know that I valued the things I had to provide for myself (first used car--old, first apartment) much more because I knew that they were the result of my own efforts and my own decisions. Now that I look back, I am grateful for the education my parents provided for me through my first year of college, but at the time, it just seemed like what parents were supposed to do, and I took it for granted.
At this point, maybe your son is ready to experience the natural consequences of his choices.

Good luck, take care, you can be firm, strong and loving

I am a former high school teacher and met my share of students just like your son. Your son's issues are likely the result of a combination of factors, but the main one being that he has not been made to have any responsibilities at all. Because of this, he has no sense of independence, success, integrity, or pride. He can get away with his lazy behavior and not suffer any consequences. Perhaps not graduating will be the first real consequence of his poor decisions. I couldn't agree more with "8kidsdad." What he needs is TOUGH LOVE at this point. He needs some clear rules, and then you need to STICK to them.
You mention several times that he is quite smart. Perhaps he has not found anything that challenges or inspires him? I ask because perhaps on top of his laziness, he is disenchanted and disconnected to his surroundings. I suggest you try to determine what he cares about to find a source for his motivation. If you set some rules, perhaps the first thing he will care about is earning a HS diploma and moving on with his life i.e. college or job/career.
I am now a college counselor and unfortunately, I still meet plenty of coddled students. Parents who coddle are doing such a disservice to their children. If he is not forced to be independent and responsible for his decisions, he will continue down this lazy path. Good luck with your decisions and I hope you stand your ground.

There's some really good advice from many of the other moms. I would determine if there is some medical or ADD problems. Assuming none then you need to give him a large dose of what used to be called "tough love". You tell him what behavior you are expecting from him (get homework done, graduate, get a job and/or go to college and get acceptable grades, etc), and then set the consequences if the expectations aren't met (specifically, that the day he turns 18 he is 100% on his own financially - he either pays rent, utilities, etc. or he moves out). I know this sounds harsh, but his manipulations must end, he must learn that there are consequences to his actions and that he will soon be an adult and responsible for his own life and his own decisions. I know how difficult it will be for you and your husband; I enabled my daughter (on a much smaller scale) and would do her homework for her, etc. and I finally realized I wasn't doing her any favors. I quit doing her homework (assisted if asked) and let her take the consquence of lower grades if she didn't do it. She soon changed her habits and graduated HS with a 3.0.

You can encourage your son, but you can't make him. How old is he?

A number of things... mostly, by knowing him really well. Knowing him respectfully.

Lazy is not a... respectful term. So, it would be helpful to see his world from his perspective.

We had a sad lad living with us for a while... it became obvious that he had very thoroughly learned that his presence was in excess of requirement. That is: no one would ever in the history of the whole universe ever care one way or another if he ceased to exist completely right now... school, work, family, friends...

Does it matter to him if he has an impact on the world? It matters to him.

Is there anything currently in his world that confirm to him that he matters?

I have found that for boys, being able to use their innate strength makes a huge amount of difference to them: moving dirt, chopping wood, demolishing things, etc... being able to be male.

Unfortunately, he didn't start out having the problem, you did. And now he has a problem that you have created. I know that sounds harsh, but you're the only one that can remedy the situation. He can't learn responsibility any longer until he is forced to fend for himself, if you can even allow that to happen. I would take 8kidsdad's suggestion one step further and strip him of everything and force him to earn it back. He'll thank you in years to come. If you don't change your ways, you will never get a "thank you" out of him.

I don't have any solutions - just compassion. I'm so nervous about the teenage years!

I feel for you! I have a cousin who is quite similar.
If your son is so far behind and it sounds like there's no chance he can make it up, perhaps tell him he gets the choice to flunk out and repeat everything again and do it right this time, or get his GED. Also, because of his lack of cooperation, you will not be funding prom, grad night, or any other diversionary discretions.

It is true you can't make him ambitious, however you can provide him with opportunities to take responsibility for himself. Let him know that you will no longer enable his manipulative behavior. Communicate your expectations and the consequences if expectations aren't met. He will be 18 soon, and by law, you are no longer responsible for him. Let him know that he has a choice of what happens to him in life and you are there to support him. Then communicate to him what that 'support' looks like.

Good luck!

You answered clearly that your son is 17 and a "genius"...is he really a genius or just a genius at manipulation??? We have 4...23, 20, and twin 17 year olds...our 17's are boy/girl. They would love to be lazy and unmotivated, everything handed to them, but there comes a point in their lives...16 to 17 that they MUST keep up in school to graduate...no if, ands, or buts....it's not an option and an absolute MUST. We told our kids they must go out and find jobs...even in this waning economy...and yes, with some effort, they all have JOBS...does he drive? If so, then to have the privilege of driving our kids have to pay for insurance, gas, and their cell phones...thats a PRIVILEGE they earn and must help pay for to enjoy. We DON'T have a TV, so that takes care of the "lazy, sit-in-front-of-the-tv" syndrome. Withhold privileges or give privileges depending on how he does. Your life does not have to revolve around him. YES, you must love him and always, always, always be there for him, but you are being manipulated and it can't be that way...you are the parent, he is your son. Give him some incentive to WANT to do things. We never have to bug our kids about homework...if they have any, they just do it. They know if they want to do other things, they must do the important things first. The fun of doing things, or just being lazy comes AFTER the important things. Remember, he is not in control of you, you are the parent and you must set limits and boundaries and CARRY through. Having kids is not for the "faint of heart"...having TEENS is not easy, but you can do it if you are willing to set boundaries. Our 17's are in 11th grade but plan to graduate early this coming December. Good luck...it's a lot of work but our children are worth it.

I have a son who is the same way and is almost 19. I have tried everything. I now just pray for him and hope the National Guard willhelp him grow up and be the man I know he is capable of becoming.

my son was (and basically still is) just like that. completely unambitious; but i have realized that alot of that is part of my gene pool. i work very hard now and really enjoy what i do, but i would have to say that i have never been especially 'ambitious'. had no real 'this is what i will be when i grow up' ideas. you cannot control that in your son, and dispite what some of the answers imply you cannot 'make' your son 'do' certain things either. the very bright child learns pretty early on that he actually does have quite a bit of control because you cannot make him go away if he doesnt cooperate until he is 18.
i took every thing i thought my son loved away, i threatened, cajoled...... and still he did nothing. after being kicked out of several schools, i finally said i was done, and yanked him of school completely due to the last school available required me to drive him there. he was pretty stunned that i would not keep playing his game.
nothing really worked but the day he turned 18 i made him move out. hard to do with no job, no schooling and nowhere to go. he thought he'd park on my porch but i told him absolutly not. i would call the police.
i know this sounds incredibly harsh, but we had no love issues and no real drug issues or bad boy problems. he simply wanted to be taken care of and i was done.
i gave him a hundred bucks and told him to hit the road....
well, he did. he learned about hostels, couch surfing, buses and a very big beautiful world to see. hi is 27 and still has no drivers license and delivers food for a living. still no ambition you see, but he has traveled through almost all of the states and seen so much more than me. he has an apartment and a job. he is healthy and happy so therefore so am i. we are on excellent terms and love each other as we are.
hang in there.

Is he in a depresion ? Get him to a dr.and see if this his problem its worth a try A. no hills

For any normal healthy adult I know, food, clothing and shelter are things you have because you work to have the money to pay for them. If you can't pay your cell phone bill, you don't have a cell phone, etc. As long as you continue to provide for him, he'll be more than happy to take it. Start talking with him about his plans in life. Where does he see himself in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years? (If he plans on living with you forever, be sure you let him know this is not an option. Baby birds have to fly from the nest sometime or another and sometimes the parent has to push them out before they spread their wings.) Then how does he think he's going to get there? If nothing is motivating him, start taking him round to recruiters offices. Tell him making no choices narrows his options down to Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines or Coast Guard.

Have him tested to make sure he doesn't actually have a medical/biological/psychological issue.

If he is fine and just lazy, then make his life less comfy. I've heard of "tough love" where you take away everything that is cozy - nice clothes, tv, cd's, etc. that they have in their room. They have their bed, 2 weeks worth of clothes, and that's it. If he can't appreciate what he has, then maybe he'll appreciate it when it's gone. When he gets a job and/or starts contributing to the family in a meaningful way, he can "buy" his stuff back. That's how the world works. he's not going to have an apartment, electricity, etc. unless he earns it. Make him earn it now.

Hi T.,

You cannot make someone be ambitious. That is something that comes from within and, frankly, the more you insist that he behaves the way you want, the more resistance you will see from him. You've raised a few issues, so I will respond to each separately.

Consider how your feelings about your son may be affecting him. You've described him as lazy and manipulative. There is no way that has not picked up on those very strong judgements. If you were in his shoes, how would you feel knowing that the one person whose opinion matters most, feels that way about you? What is it about your son that really impresses you? Focus on that.

Recognizing that most homework is repetitive and obsolete shows a great deal of insight and forward-thinking on his part. (I would recommend you get a hold of Alfie Kohn's book, The Homework Myth.) The same path is not for everyone. Your son can lead a very successful and happy life without the traditional schooling we've come to believe is so critical. He needs to find his path and you can help him do that by letting go of the idea that school is the only way. Help him focus on what interests him and find ways for him to excel, even if no one is there to grade him.

Lastly, he will absolutely get a job and move out because you will ensure that he does. Once he is 18, he will be an adult. Continuing to pay for his shelter, food, utilities, car, etc., only serves to debilitate him. You can begin charging him rent at that point and stop paying for car or phone services. He might need this push from you. If I can be of any further help, feel free to contact me. I've worked with parents with this exact issue. You are not alone.

Be well,
G. B., M.A.
Child Development Specialist & Parent Educator
www.GilaBrown.com

This is really hard. Kids can be stubborn. I don't have any magic but I do have a suggestion.

What does your son love? Think about what he wants and if you don't know then sit him down and ask him. Then, find a college that offers what he is truly passionate about. Search the internet. Next, dangle the carrot. Tell him you are sorry school is boring, but he is down to the wire and that college is different. You actually have some choices and when you are through you get to do something you love. Prod him along. Help him any way you can. Don't give up. Remind him how close he is to this goal. Also tell him you will not be supporting him for the rest of his life (don't be angry, just matter of fact and sincere) and you want him to be doing something he likes. Remind him most people do not do something they like, but they still need to make enough to feed, cloth and house themselves. Tell him you want to help him be happy.

Caution: This is about what he wants and not what you want. So if you were hoping for a lawyer, but he wants to be a cartoonist, then find him a school that will help him be a cartoonist. Help him reach his dreams.

I feel for you..although my son was not exactly the same..some of what you wrote rings familiar..I ended up giving my son some choices...go to school and 'play the game' or get a job and 'take steps' toward moving out on his own. There were no other options. Even though I was disappointed that he chose the 'job' option I could see that he was no longer interested in listening to any authority figures at school or home telling him to tuck his shirt in and straighten his tie or sit up straight..He was a maths genius, but he left school and took his first job in the meat works..From there he changed..because he had to work with 'real' people who expected him to do his share and many of them were grumpy old men..who he actually loved working with. I believe his is what changes them. Responsibilty, a degree of accountability to others and a great male role model to kick his butt into action and check in on him always helps..anyone, an uncle, an older brother or father. I dont know if this helps but it worked with my son.

We have a cousin who's in his early 40's and is like your son. Genius IQ, college by the time he was 16. Today, he lives at home with his 80-something year old mother living off of his dead father's estate.

He works occasionally as a diesel mechanic, a carpenter, and a masseur. He's so brilliant he can't channel his energy.

I agree with the other responses that you can't make him more ambitious. But, you can control the extent to which you enable him (which I'm not saying you do).

If he doesn't get a job or go to college, you may need to take a hard line and make him earn his keep to let him know life isn't about manipulating people. Or, that may be his talent, and he's able to make a life off of bucking the system and conning other people into enabling him.

If he were my child, I'd put an end to it very quickly and make him see the consequences of not applying himself are - how hard it is to make a living on a low hourly rate without parental subsidies.

He may also learn, if he does go to college, that there are just as many geniuses as him there, and he's not quite as extraordinary in the big pond as he is in the little one.

Good luck - I hope he wisens-up.

Hi T., I learned a long time ago that as parents we can only teach, pray and be the best example we can be for our kids. My son is the same way, but he is 23 now and he has been like this through his teens, he did graduate after being in the learning center, and he has never had a job except working with his dad, it takes long talks from his dad to motivate him, he has all his qualifications to be an armed guard, and he has a job pending. But what I do as a mom is I look for the good in him and express that often. Just Love him unconditionally, my son is kicking himself for not making better choices for him self earlier on, but I told him you start from where you are today and go from there. I'm one of those mothers who are not in a hurry for my kids to move out, my oldest son is 26 married and lives up in San Louis Abispo and not a day goes by where I don't miss my son. I have a 20 year old daughter too, and she's highly motivated, full time student at South Western college, but they are all different. The middle child syndrom is real. J. L.

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Hi T., I learned a long time ago that as parents we can only teach, pray and be the best example we can be for our kids. My son is the same way, but he is 23 now and he has been like this through his teens, he did graduate after being in the learning center, and he has never had a job except working with his dad, it takes long talks from his dad to motivate him, he has all his qualifications to be an armed guard, and he has a job pending. But what I do as a mom is I look for the good in him and express that often. Just Love him unconditionally, my son is kicking himself for not making better choices for him self earlier on, but I told him you start from where you are today and go from there. I'm one of those mothers who are not in a hurry for my kids to move out, my oldest son is 26 married and lives up in San Louis Abispo and not a day goes by where I don't miss my son. I have a 20 year old daughter too, and she's highly motivated, full time student at South Western college, but they are all different. The middle child syndrom is real. J. L.