Love and Logic

I have used it some, have some friends with older kids that use it and LOVE it. I know people that didn't even start it till junior high... and it worked well. Just take bits & pieces that feel comfy to you.

I love the approach. My mother gave me the book right after I got divorced and became a single mom. It was hard to change my approach which was more the drill sargeant, dictator. Once I became comfortable with allowing choices and mistakes and was willing to let my kids learn from their mistakes, our relationship improved so much!!! Remember even Jim FAy says that if you make a mistake don't beat yourself up just learn from it and keep trying. :-)

The other post that said it seems to be about shaming shocked me, from what I have read, learned, listened to, there is no shame involved in LOve and Logic parenting. The approach is about loving your children enough to let them learn from their own actions. This can start as early as 6 months.

My boys are now teenagers and have 3 younger sisters, I have had to go back and remember the things you do with younger kids, and some days are better than others. When I am willing not to be a drill sargeant and try to control everything it works so much better. Don't beat yourself up, and just keep working at it. 4 is such a "fun" age, although it is an age where they like to make lots of choices and are more able to learn the consequences of not so good choices. My newly turned 5 year old insisted that she had to have what I was having for lunch the other day and wouldn't even listen to her choices, when her sister got something else that she really wanted she pitched a fit. I was so proud of myself for not yelling at her and telling her that she should have waited. I actually looked at her and said wow, I know I get upset when I don't listen to all my choices and get stuck with something I didn't really want too. Tomorrow you can have what your sister had, today you made this choice. It's been interesting to see that she is listening to find out what all her choices are before insisting she has to have something.

Consistency is the key to any parenting program, but I love this one because it allows me to let go of some control and in return I have more responsible children, that I don't have to worry as much about when they go to someone else's house or out in public.

One thing that worked really well with my oldest daughter when she was about 18 mos, what Uh oh it looks like you have tired ears, when she ignored me. I would lovingly pick her up and put her in her bed and let her know when her ears woke up she could get out, and it didn't take very long for her to catch on. My youngest is funny, when she hears the uh oh song she goes over to her chair and climbs in or goes to her bed. It really does make for more loving relationships.

I went to a weekend wrkshp and have some audio tapes. I think that it is a great system. It takes a lot of focus to remember to use it consistently. I have used the Uh oh song for my 8 month old when he was trying to get into the fireplace. I put him into his playpen. It is working - even on him.
I use a lot of it on my 3 yr old. I like giving him choices it makes him part of of each experience and he feels empowered. I like letting him decide how long that he is going to pitch a fit before setting the time out timer. After having to carry him to his bedroom a few times he usually goes himself if I ask him to make a choice between walking and me carrying him there. Sometimes I find it difficult to choose the right words. I also forget a lot of the lessons,but I keep trying. Just the other day I said something like, "If you do that I am going to get really mad!" Then I remembered that gives them all of the power over my emotions. I think that I just need to look over the lessons a lot. when I use them they seems to work well. Children are very smart. I have been trying to give natural consequences as much as possible. When he spilled grapes juice all over my tile (purple grout!) I had him scrub it with a scrub brush. When he used a marker on the wall he scrubbed that for a long time. He wasnt able to really clean either one, but he learned that he was going to have to clean for a long long time if he makes messes. When he hits we use the technique of ABC. I really like this one. On the playground I see so many children say really quickly SORRY! almost sarcastically and then run off. It is disgusting. But they ABC teaches children kindness, compassion, and humanity. I could go on, but I do think that the lessons are worth trying.

Hi M.,

I use "Love and Logic" in my classroom as a high school teacher and I've had great success with it. I also use it at home with my sons, ages 10 and 14. It's harder at home, since I have no administration to send the kids to when they continue to make poor choices. But, the concept of letting them learn the consequences of their actions is phenomenal.

For example, in April, my sons had the day off school for a district-wide teacher training day. I gave my boys a list of chores to do while at work...long, but manageable in about 3 hours. The night before, the boys told me what they'd give up if they failed to do the chores: one chose a favorite type of book and one chose his game boy. Sure enough, the boys didn't do their chores and gave up their most favorite pastimes for 4 weeks (their choice). It was the easiest "groundation" because it was their choice. After about 2 weeks, my little one started whining for his game boy and all I had to say was "Whose choice was it NOT to do chores?" "Mine." "Whose choice was it to be grounded for four weeks?" "Mine." "So, what's the problem, exactly?" "Nothing."

Stick with it, if you can. It's really worth it!

S. F.

It is absolutely true. Adults are much more difficult to train than children. If you feel it is a good style of parenting for your children, keep at it. It will get easier. You CAN be taught! :0)

Hi M. -- I am familiar with the Fahey's and their parenting methods (though I read the books and attended a few seminars rather than taking classes.) I think in theory that the principles are good -- but I don't think that it is realistic to change your whole persona or habits to adopt their methodologies overnight. Additionally, every child/parent personality and reactions are going to be different. What works on one child will not work on another. Don't be too tough on yourself and use your common sense to determine which pieces of this method you can really incorporate into your lifestyle. If I read something in a parenting article that I like, I often will tape it to my bathroom mirror to try and ingrain it in my brain -- maybe you can do the same thing with some of the key things you want to practice. I also tend to keep books with post-it notes or folded corners next to my bed and bath (my prime reading areas) and the toilet (for my husband! :) Just to help revisit the major points.

Thanks for asking this question... I've never heard of it before, but will check into it for my 13 year old. Good luck to you!

I just ordered a couple of their books from Amazon this weekend. Anxious to see how it works but it makes "sense" so to speak. Don't have anything to add but sounds like we are both at the same point in checking out this style of parenting.

M.,

I've seen a bit of the Love and Logic stuff and from what I've seen, I don't like it. To me it seems like it relies pretty heavily on shaming your child regularly. But maybe that is just the way the people I know who were using it were approaching it. I like the positive discipline approach. There is a Positive Discipline book for preschoolers by Jane Nelsen that I think is a really great resource. It is about teaching your kids to behave as opposed to punishing them for misbehaving. It is a really good book and a very gentle way of parenting. My kids respond to it really well.

All that said, changing old habits and olds ways is hard. If you want to change your parenting style, take it one day at a time, remember that no one is perfect and change takes time. If you "slip" don't beat yourself up about it, just move on and try to do better next time. The things you learned as a child stay with you. I don't like to scream at my kids and I try not to scream at them but sometimes they push my buttons and I lose my temper. When that happens, I model the behavior I want them to see and use. I quit screaming, I apologize, and I talk to my kids about what happened, how I reacted and how I would have liked to have reacted. Kids are amazingly smart and they really do learn more by what you do that by what you say.

So I think everyone reverts to their old parenting ways occasionally. You can use that as a learning experience for all of you too.

T.

Hi M.,

I'm not sure what "logic" you use with a 4 year old but brain development studies show that children don't think logically until they're about 16 or 17 years old. The love part is great and positive reinforcement is necessary. Time outs work well, as well as counting to 3. Punishment is not very effective because it just builds resentment.

V.

i have been reading the love and logic book, per my mom's suggestion, and i think it is quite helpful. something that a friend pointed out, however, is to remember this is merely one author's ideas about parenting, not the end-all, be-all. in other words, if you are using other strategies that work for you, go for it! you can apply ideas from a variety of sources, depending on what works for your family. i was really getting upset with myself when i didn't apply the strategies from the book perfectly everytime, and i realized that is silly. it is good to have guidelines but when real life happens, it is impossible to predict you or your child's reaction.
i like the concepts of offering choices, letting kids make reasonable decisions for themselves, and building self-esteem. the principles are great even if we don't always use them perfectly.