Logical Consequences

I've never had something like that happen. I think you reacted approriately. However, I would personally take something away that is more immediate, her bike, her favorite toy, tv, movies, webkins, etc. Being grounded from the arboretum for two weeks seems a little excessive. 4 year olds don't have the memory for two weeks. Even with my six year old, the only thing I have ever done is take away snacks for a week. I have never gone more then a week, because eventually he has no idea why he doesn't have snacks for that long. Remember to keep time frames age approriate.

I think the having to leave, the ouch when buckled in, the anger you showed her and the 2 wks of not going there are plenty of appropriate punishments. And she needed that. A spanking would not have been out of line for this situation since safety was a concern. A 4 year old DOES know better then to run away, you are not expecting too much. But why was a 4 yr old in a stroller anyway?? And not potty trained yet either?? Sounds like you need to get a bit tough with that girl and tell her she isn't a baby anymore, no more accidents in her pants and no more stroller.

You completely did the right thing! You followed through, which is THE #1 important tool a parent needs- consistency and follow through. She is definitely old enough and able to understand that when she behaves in that manner, the fun stops. Keep up the good work!

Hi,

First give yourself a pat on the back! No she didn't know better(we assume kids do...but need to teach them), but she was attempting to get what she wanted and didn't and no you were not hard on her when teachin her that her behavior was not was expected. The next time go out ask her how she is supposed to behave so, you and she are on the same page (Dad too:) You did a great job, and if it is a place you go often then do it again sooner an not later because then you give her another day to try again. She will learn no matter where you are that you have expectations and she will have live up to them. I also think you did the right about the stranger danger talk. FYI...my daughter was like this too and even at seven throws an occasional tempertanutrum in a new learning situation when she wants something she knows she can not have(for example last night when she didn't get to watch the movie she wanted with mom and dad because she was being sneaky and took out a craft project that she was not supposed to), but they lesson in capacity and we need to model self control no matter how bad it is(this is hard and I can not say I am great at this!) Hopefully, by the time they are all grown they will appreciate it (or at least when they are parents:). Just for your information there is a great DVD (my daughter loved it and wathched over and over) on stranger danger. The information is on a website and they have other safety topics too. It is titled The Safe Side:Hot Tips for Cood Kids, and you can get it at http://www.thesafeside.com/ Again Great Job!

L.

I have to agree with the other posters - Good work Mom.

One thing to add that has worked in our home. When I prepare to take my kids (3 of them ages 8, 6, and 3) we always discuss what the situation is where we are going. (Crowds, open spaces, exciting exibits, whatever).
For us, the kids know that the highest offense they can make is to "not be safe". this rule encmopasses many things; seat belts, staying together in a crowd, wreckless behavior, runnign into the street... etc.
Yes, for us the major offense was that at some point each of our children have made the mad dash away from us into the street. Fortunately there was never trafic coming but it provided a serius teaching moment.
In my panic, the adrenalin rush hits, I snatch them up with a quickness and move fromteh area. This fast action jars them and sometimes scares them. I remind them that the consequences would have been much worse if I did not grab them.
At age 4 logical consequences for running away from mom or dad would be isolation indoors for a few days. Then they could earn my trust back by playing nicely in the yard, then close to home, then the park, etc, building back up to the place where the offense occured.

Keep it up, just know that this too shall pass.

Have you heard of Love and Logic. I think it is good to gleen something from lots of different sources. This is a dangerous thing to have happen, but it is also super stressful on you even when the child is save in a controlled situation and doing it. My son is 4 years old. Something I may do would be in a calm and matter-of-fact way when we are going out in public again, have your child be the "baby" (you said you have a 15mos old) I have two also and when we go to the store my 4 year old gets special "walking with the cart" or riding in the big part of the cart or different things because he is older. (You can explain that by running away she showed you that she is not acting in a way that allows her to have those special big girl things so she must...(fill in the backward step) this may cause public display. Be prepared and go someplace where you can stay calm and not worry about what other people think. You will be doing an important "teaching moment" for your child and it really doesn't matter what other people think!! She is old enough and since you talked about it, to remember what happened and I would reminder her "when you did this is showed me that you are not ready for....But I know that you can show me you are ready again. Let's practice today." That ends with the goal and loving confidence you have in her ability to show you that she knows how to act. This may be difficult with the little one so I would plan ahead and have a back up.
One of the things they talk about is having someone on stand by (not someone fun like and Grandparent or loved babysitter, but someone you trust and know, and your child knows you know even if they don't) to come in and take the child out. Example: Child is acting up. Child gets a warning(this includes the Consequences)"If you continue to do this and mommy can't do her shopping, my friend/helper/whatever will come and take you to the car and you will not get to.....(consequence at home toy/tv/game whatever) Child acts out again...you make a call or que someone "following you" and they take the child out of the store and sit when them in your car or theirs while you finish your shopping or errand. Then you kind of hope they try it one more time to drive this home and use your helper you have lined up. Then you calmly and lovingly have the helper take the child to the car without anger or judgement of the child's choice to act out. (You said she fought you, have the adult know that and be calm and loving about taking her to the car. The lack of emotion in a situation and being prepared is surprisingly calming and off putting to a child acting out.) Finish what you are doing and pick up your child when you are done, and follow up with a talk and the at home Consequences. This seems huge maybe extreme, but so is running away in public and if it makes an impression on the child (4 yr old not old enough yet to figure out you can't have this plan in place every time) it should work to drive the message home. You have set this up so there doesn't need to be an upset or public problem. I recommend checking out the library for the Love and Logic toddler tapes/book and they have a website to learn more. I wish you well, and hope you find something that works for you. This is just an idea.

Based on your comments, I am going to guess that your daughter is about 2 or maybe close to 3 yrs old. I think you handled it perfectly. At this age, they need immediate consequences. She is not going to understand that you cannot go to whatever it is for however long due to her behavior. When you do decide to go again, talk to her before hand about the last time kind of as a reminder. And if it happens again, handle it the same way. I know how scary it can be to "lose" your child because they ran off.
It also sounds like you are feeling guilty about her hand also. I cannot tell you how many times it happened because my kids did not want to sit properly in their car seats. I just made sure it was not horrible, apologized and explained why it happened (without blaming them) and asked that they please sit still.

S.,

I recently had the same scenario with my 4 year old but at my house. My daughter was having a temper about going inside and expressed it by running out the front door and (we live on a corner) out, around, down the sidewalk...dad was washing his toy car and not really interested in what was going on with us! I ended up pulling her inside, kicking & screaming, while carrying my 1 year old in the other arm. It was a ridiculous scene but there is no excuse for running away like that.

As far as a long-term punishment, I don't know that 2 weeks away from the arboretum will be effective if you continue to do other things instead. It is just as hard on the parent, and I think this is the hardest thing for my husband, but I feel when kids behave like this we need to buck up and let them see the problem. I would reinforce the danger of her behavior and for the next few days-week decline on opportunities for this to happen. If she likes to walk, only let her do it in a controlled place and tell her if she doesn't hold your hand then she's buckled into her stroller. If I give her freedom to, say, freely walk at the mall, she has a boundary (such as staying right next to me) and if it's breached then she is back in the stroller or holding my hand, etc.

Good luck!

Hi, great job! My daughter is 6-1/2, and she pushes me ALL the time. And my 2-1/2 year old son is the angel (I hope that stays)!!! Although neither one of them has run away from me, thank God, the main issue is that she was being naughty and you were going to leave, which is why she did that. But you followed through, and that is great! I have had to leave my full basket at the grocery store when my daughter would act up, and I would be carrying her out like a football. I would see several different emotions (looks from people who have been there, and then younger people looking like I am abusing my kid) - quite comical when I look back! ha!!! 3 and 4 (and unfortunately 5) were the worst for me. My daughter says when she turns 7 she will be good, ha!

I remember when we were on vacation and my daughter was acting up and screaming being naughty (around 4), and I told her to stop. She didn't, and I grabbed her and picked her up, and when I did, she banged her head on this pole, then she really started crying. And I said something that my Dad used to say. "Now you have something to cry about"! ha! And although I felt bad, I know it wouldn't have happened if she would have been good in the first place!!!!

I think a week is good enough - they are smart little cookies. Just right before you walk in tell her the rules again. It might take another time, but then she will learn (hopefully)!!!

The best of luck great Mommy!!!!!

Way to go, S.! You did really well. She's old enough to know that she was being naughty and to know there are consequences. When she asks to go anywhere over the next few days, say I'm sorry, you were naughty. And then when you decide it's been long enough, and decide to go somewhere, have another chat about why what she did was naughty and why she shouldn't behave that way again. Eventually she will get it, she might be 25, but she'll get there. lol.

Good luck and congrats on being a responsible, effective mom!
D.

I totally agree with what you did. My daughter just turned four and for a stretch there she would have screaming fits and run away from me when we would have to leave the library. I was so embarrassed and would have to take her out screaming, crying, and kicking and put her in the car. One time, I'm not exactly sure how it happened but as I was putting her in the car she threw her head up and cracked her forehead on the car. I felt horrible esp. after seeing a little mark on her little head. But I had to remember it was an accident and things like that happen esp. in situations like that. We would then go for a week without the library. When she would ask to go I would tell her we couldn't go because she needed time to learn how to behave at the library. The next time we'd go we'd have a talk before walking in on how we are supposed to act and what would happen if we didn't act nice. It took a few times but she does better now. We also have the stranger danger talk all the time. Every week we go over Mommy's name, Daddy's name, our phone number, and what to do if you get lost or a stranger approaches you.
Good luck and hang in there! 3-4 is a really challenging age! It gets better- or so I'm told (smiles).

S.
You absolutely did the right thing. Children need action immediately! I have never been through this however I have always had a plan as to what I would do. My Daughter will be 5 in August. You went right in and followed through. That is the best thing you can do , you told her if she did not stop you were leaving, and you did, too bad she hurt her finger but if she was doing what she was suppose to (cooperating) it would not have happened. Children need to know there are consequences for their actions especially when safety is at hand. Safety is always first. I would say to use the stroller untill she can be trusted. Have many talks with her about strangers, and staying close to Mom, explain Mom always needs to see you. Have a talk everyday (short) untill you think she gets it. Definately have a talk everytime you go out to a public place and explain the rules and what you expect her behavior to be. She is 4 she knows better.
Good Luck

V.

If you are going to start working pretty soon your caregiver or daycare worker or school personnel will gladly appreciate you working on this ahead of time. I had an experience in one of these situations and it is absolutely frightening. I chased someone around a school all over the place. Did catch up with her but was frightened for exactly what you say-all the things that happen. So, if she would miss a trip there to the arboretum again, then that would definitely be a logical consequence. If that had happened and you were say, supposed to go to McDonald's after, and you didn't that would be a logical consequence. If you tell her she's not going to Disneyworld (and she doesn't know what Disneyworld is or why she'd miss going there) then that would not be a good consequence. She can't do something like that. You must have been terrified. I think if she is around four she is definitely old enough to realize she can't do that. They (whoever the proverbial they are) say that you should take away something they like, or want. Like older boys wanting to play nintendo or soccer or something like that (yes even school sports). If they realize that something will be missed when they do something wrong they are likely to not do it again. There are also statements you can use and they are "If you do this blah, blah,then this will happen" and of course you mean it. Sounds like you are on the right track. And of course rewards for her great behavior. Pencils, gum, etc. Good luck. Give her a hug for all of us.

I agree with your decision to remove her from the situation. Kids need immediate consequences. We don't have issues with running away, but, trust me, we have issues with our 3 and 5 year old acting up in public. Yesterday, we were at a fourth of July function and we probably should have just left, but we stayed on instead. That was a mistake. I think the more consistent you are, the better.

Great job, MOM! Immediate consequences get the message across. Work with her when not in the heat of the moment so that she understands the severity of running away in a crowd. Stranger Danger talk is good but... if she is lost, does she know who she CAN turn to, in a public place?? (i.e. employee, a mom with a bunch of kids, etc.... ) Also, have you given her a special "password" that is unique to only the two of you? Even though she ran away, was she even aware of how to make it back to you? She may have wanted to run away, but then couldn't remember how to return. My kids and I always have made up a special "sound" that is just unique to us. (used to be a certain rhythmic whistle, which, when the other person heard it, they mimicked, so that I knew how to find them.)

This week, maybe one "cancelled" play date or trip to the park, with the emphasis on "why you aren't going... .because you are grounded", I think is adequate. Anything longer would be lost on a 4 year old.

Yes, a 4 year old can push the envelope very well. So can 5 year olds, 6 year olds, etc....

Yes, I have encountered this - one major trip to Target, with my children, ended in my 2 1/2-year old son, being carried out, under my arm, screaming, while my daughter, held my other hand, screaming, "NO MOMMY ... I'll be gooooood!" I had given fair warning, then I swiftly marched the two back to the car, announcing "I am done!" I left a filled shopping cart in the aisle (with stuff for them!). There was no yelling, no spanking on my part... just a swift action. I have a teen and a tween now, and it's funny that they still remember it. Your daughter knew better than to do what she did but.. with your swift consequences, she may think twice about doing it again. So sorry her finger was pinched. It does happen and don't beat yourself up over it. That wasn't your intent to have that happen.

Good luck.

Does she tend to run away often? My son did at about age 3. It turns out that he has ADHD and his impulse control was more like a toddler at that point. A two-week punishment would have meant nothing to him. When he was a little over 3 I was heavily pregnant with his brother and we had a harness/leash we used. Not very often, but in a crowd when I was alone with him, it was a safety issue because he simply would not come back and I needed to make sure he didn't get killed. Also, it was a great deterrant after 3 or 4 times having to wear it.

Highly recommend you take that approach or a similar prevention/understanding. If you find out that your child does have a biological issue, like I did (a couple of years later), you will feel really bad if you were overly punitive about it. You have to adjust to the child you have, not the child everyone else thinks you're supposed to have. (not saying you are like that - just talking to my own younger self!)

Oh, one more tip - whenever I'm going to be in a crowded place with my kids, I write my cell phone number in ink on their arm just in case, and remind them who to go to (or where we will meet) in case we are separated.

I would say absolutely no special outings or trips to the park, playdates... for a week. Then I'd give another chance. I think 2 weeks is too long. During the week, I would remind her every day why you aren't going out. And then on the first trip out, I would remind her again about the expected behavior. If she doesn't behave, then I'd leave again, even if she's kicking and screaming... We've all been there! Don't feel bad about the pinched hand, either... I'm sure it will be fine and maybe that will help it sink in that she cannot behave like that.
Our son is 4 (turned 4 in March) and I swear that age 3-4 was so much harder than 2! I feel like things are getting better by the month now, but we still have incidents...

My 3 year old ran away from me once and he lost the "Privilege" of walking without a stroller. He too thru a temper tantrum after I grabbed him and left the store. Since then he now sit in the cart and stores and remains in a stroller -with the him strapped in. You can't take chances with little kids -not with all the weirdoa out there now. Only the last few trips to the store have we let him walk. If he walks away or doesn't listen even once he is back in the cart. No 2nd chances which he found out after not listening one time. Since then he has been really good. I have a zero tolerance when it come to not listening. Some say its tough- but then those same people comment on how well my kids behave. Don;t get me wrong they have lots of fun and enjoy themselves- but when it is time to listen they do. Children know very youngn how far they can push without too much consequence. So they will push. I started timeout at 12mos. my kids are 3 and 5 and so far they are well adjusted well behave fun loving kids. -I figure I have e few more years before they becaome teenagers. :)

I have to agree with the other comments...you did the right thing! It's hard to leave someplace fun, but children need to learn how to behave. My son (just turned 3 in April) has had fits in public places and we just walk out. He now knows that when I say he needs to behave or we'll leave, I'm serious! It is very embarrassing sometimes, but I think most people will applaud you for following through and actually leaving, instead of just an empty threat. She will get the idea so much better if she knows you'll actually follow through on this. And any discipline, for that matter! My son has never had a "fit" in the same place twice, so I know he understands it. Your daughter will too!! I'd say 1 week is probably enough and reiterate what will happen if she runs away from you again when you're in a public place. Good luck...it's all worth it to keep your child safe!!

Hi The thought of your child being missing is very frighten!! What my daughter did for her three year toddler who likes to run around when they are out. She brought a leash and put it on him. Because when you're in a crowd of people they could easily get lost and it sad to say someone could take them.

I'm sorry, because while I agree that you obviously love your child and were trying to help her, I'm going to be a dissenting voice and ask you to consider another route. Do you really want to spend the next 14 years or so fighting with your child? You really don't need to use punitive consequences to teach a child how to behave appropriately.

In the situation you describe, I would ask yourself why she was acting up. How long had you been at the Arboretum, was she tired, hungry, or bored? Child behaviors that we find difficult, are usually the result of some unmet need. If you can figure out the need, you can often prevent the sort of conflict you are describing. If there is really a situation where she is just refusing to listen to you about something, you can always take her aside, sit her gently or playfully on your lap and explain that, for example, she can't scream in a public place because it's rude, so you will just sit there for a while with her until she is ready to listen to you about this. You want her to learn why such rules are important, and to follow the rule because she wants to, right? Removing her completely from any opportunity to do better can only result in a meltdown, and when kids are melting down, their ability to think and act rationally is impaired. None of us are really good at learning when we are upset.

I think after the fact of her running from you, I would simply share with her your concerns that this was unsafe, and brainstorm with her another way for she and you to work better together to find a good solution to whatever the problem was. Work WITH her, not against her, and you will see better results.

I think you did the right thing- the most important thing is to be consistent- when she sees she is not going to get away with it, she should try to stop testing you. She is also old enough (I think) to understand if she doesn't stick with you, you will have to leave or she will be confined to the stroller or grocery cart. My 4 year old knows if we are in the store and she leaves my side, in the cart she goes! Good luck and be consistent!

Wow. I have no idea what I would do if my son would do that.

I think you really have to have a long and hard talk about stranger danger and the fact that anything could have happened to her. I'm assuming she's a handful. I know my son would never dream about running away out in public.

Also, check out a DVD called, 1,2,3 Magic, it will change the way you parent and the way your kids react towards you.

I do believe you reacted correctly. I would have also taken away something she loves (immediately)... like tv.

Hi S., was that your first trip to the Arboretum with her? If not or so, maybe she just doesn't like it. Is it something of interest to you and you are trying to get her interested? Maybe she is just not interested at this time anyway.

One thing I know is that it is hard to force something down someone, especially a child's throat and kids will definately let you know when they don't like something.
Maybe you should try taking her somewhere else of interest. I, right now don't know what for a 4yo, maybe the park, or do some research on things that age likes.

But since you will be going to work soon, you should just prepare her for pre-school by getting her interested in things she will be learning while you're apart from each other.

When my daughter took my grand-son to pre-school on his first day, we were so nervous that he wouldn't adapt to the change. Surprisingly, when she got to the door, he took off and I think it was because he saw the other kids and that was what interested him.

You may be surprised, after she starts being around other kids in that atmosphere, that may interest her more than the Arboretum did.

Just a guess.

Hi S,

I think you did the right thing and I think you should go back when you feel you want to go out with your daughter. My sister's child is quite spoiled by the in-law grandparents and when he gets home they have a big issue with being able to go shopping or even to the park. She said she is just going to have to deal with the mental game and also deal a little bit with the in-laws but in the end, she does exactly what you did and little by little we have seen that he is listening to my sister more and more.
Maybe other mom's have better advice about the running away but I think you did a great job. I am sorry your little one got pinched, maybe you could remind her what happened last time so she doesn't struggle too hard if there is a next time. Good Luck. V

You may have found some good solutions by now, but just in case you'd like to see some more ideas, here are some resources that I hope might be helpful for you...

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060100.asp

Best wishes,
J.