Kindergarden Behavior Very Different from Home

You might read this, and see if it sounds familiar...
http://saltcentre.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/the-story-of-g...

Send her a half day. I think full day kinder is too long on both kindergraten teachers (highly paid babysitters) and on the child, too. Their attention span is not that long.

If I read your post correctly, your daughter was still only four when she began kindergarten. Is this in a private school? I'm not aware of any public schools that take childen that young for kindergarten; five is pretty much the universal age, and many parents of five-year-olds choose not to send their children that first year when the child is eligible but to wait another year for their child to mature in social skills and listening skills -- because those, and not academic skills, are the truly vital thing a child needs before starting K.

What you describe - the inability to stop dancing, the silliness, etc. -- all sounds like simple immaturity. That is not an insult, it's simply a statement: At just-turned five, of course a child has less maturity. It sounds like she just started kindergarten before she was ready. Don't let her intelligence blind you to her lack of maturity. In K a child must be ready to:

--Move with the group, stopping whatever she is doing when she is told to stop and moving to a new activity along with the rest of the class
--Listen to and obey adults who are not mom or dad, consistently
--Obey directions to move through the school in a consistently quiet manner (because otherwise she is disrupting other children in other classes)
--Not melt down when corrected but take it in stride
--Show that she can talk with and to the teachers and other children sensibly and with reasonable respect

None of those things is related to academics; they're related to getting along in a group environment,and it sounds like your daughter just isn't old enough for that just yet. It is NO shame on you, her or your family if you pull her out and put her into a good pre-K preschool or if you have her repeat K next year. Please do not fall into the trap of "she'll be so bored if she does K next year." Our friends did that and regretted it -- they pushed their son to move on to first grade after a rough K year, when the teachers felt he should repeat K (he was very bright academically but totally disorganized and scattered). The result was that it took him until about fourth grade to really catch up in maturity and organization to other kids. He simply should have started K a year later when he was really ready to be still, to listen, to be part of the group. Don't repeat their mistake.

You seem to feel that the teacher is quashing your daughter's "happy spirit" and trying to "turn her into a robot." But can you get past that and see that in order to enjoy and get real learning out of K, she needs to be part of the group and move as they move, and talk with the teacher in a way that works for them both? This isn't about taking away her independence or her individuality; it's about learning how to act in school. She will still be able to be herself, but she can't do that and at the same time distract other kids.

You mention that you work with her daily on manners but if she lacks the maturity, she won't be able to translate those lessons into her behaviors at school and you are all in for a very frustrating year. Please consider sitting down with the teacher and asking if your child is just too young yet for kindergarten. Again -- it is not a negative reflection on you or her if she isn't ready yet. Much better to move her now than to keep her in school on some principle that she must tough it out, or to resent the teacher for suppressing her spirit when the teacher is only trying to run a classroom.

She sounds very normal, some kids take a little longer to adjust to a classroom setting than others! My two boys went through this same thing at this age. She just has some problems with impulse control, and that is both disrespectful/silly, just different names for it. It use to be silly b/c she didn't know better. But now she does as the year has progressed, so it is now considered disrespectful, b/c she understands that it is disruptive. Pulling hair and pushing will always be disrespectful as well. So, just continue to work with her on that. I don't think the teacher is trying to turn her into a robot, she expects all the children to behave and listen, otherwise the class would be complete chaos. She is asking your daughter to behave in a way that is possible for other children her age to behave, and she is trying to help your daughter understand that there is a time and a place for acting silly. Sometimes, playing 'school' at home can help kids learn as well.

You, her mom, describe her as pulling children's hair, pushing other children, being bossy and making fun of things.
As J.C. said "It's all in the perspective"
You could
a) complain about her teacher this year, next year, the next...
b)seek professional help without admitting there is a behavior problem, just a happy spirit.
c) start teaching your child good manners which will help her succeed in life.

Kindergarten is not preschool. There are more rules, more structure, more kids. It's just MORE than preschool - more for a kiddo to take in. If your daughter is a very young 5, it may in fact be too early for her developmentally. Nothing is "wrong" with her, she's just not ready for it. A play date, preschool, etc. are nothing like kindergarten.

Expecting your child to behave a certain way isn't trying to turn her into a robot, but there is a need for rule following. My son's kindergarten has 8 classes of 20 kids each - that's 160 KINDERGARTENERS. It's very sweet that your daughter likes to dance, but if every one of the hundreds of kids did what they were moved to do by their "happy spirit", the halls would be in chaos.

Don't blame the teacher for not knowing how to deal with a "happy spirit" child. It's not her job to let her be a free spirit, it's her job to help the kids fit the structure of kindergarten and not distract other children. Your free spirit child could be distracting to other kiddos because of her behavior. My kiddo had a challenge with this as well - he's a sweet kid, but that doesn't change the fact that his challenge with structure interfered with other chilren's learning.

I think being open to holding your daughter back a year or starting over next year may be an option to consider. Again, she's not being "bad", she just may not be mature enough for the structure.

It's a balance between the kids being kids and being students.

Good luck!

Professional help? For being a little silly, dancing in the hallways...she's in kindergarten and this type of "disrespectful" behavior is totally normal at that age. Some kids do it more than others. They are learning how to behave at this age. I think you're doing a good job of reminding her that she needs to listen to her teacher. Being able to behave and follow school rules, aka no dancing in line when walking in the hallway, are important skills to learn. Maybe at her conference, you could suggest that the teacher do a behavior chart for her if the teacher even thinks this is necessary. Sounds like she needs to work on 1. keeping hands to herself in line 2. walk appropriately in the hallway. The teacher could give her a star at the end of the day on her chart for each behavior she does. At the end of the week, if she gets X amount of stars give her a positive reward...something simple like a playdate with fun music so she can dance and be silly.

I personally would stop by and chat with the Music teacher about her behavior to find out exactly what's going on. Wouldn't hurt to speak to a few of the other Specialists she attends as well (Art, PE). Maybe something about her behavior in these classes could be added to the behavior chart as well. Good luck and don't stress too much about this, sounds like she's a happy, smart and confident kid!

When my daughter was a toddler, I went out to dinner with an old friend who had a daughter my daughters's age. She was telling me how difficult her daughter was to raise. I was sitting there thinking how lucky I was because my daughter was so easy going. When she got into more detail, I realized our daughters's were actually very similar but our perceptions of their behavior was vastly different.
I obviously don't know your daughter or her teacher but just because the teacher says it is so doesn't make it so. I almost hate to say it, but some teachers just don't like certain children. Although my daughter liked her 3rd grade teacher, the teacher did not care for my daughter per the school guidance counselor and Principal. Ugh, another long story.
I would ask the gym, art, music and librarian what behaviors they observe. None of the behaviors you mention sound atypical of a kinder. Good luck:)

Kindergarten is not preschool.
Different routines and rules.
Also, amongst SO many other kids, there is different dynamics.... among kids and personalities.
Thus, a child is adapting or not or not as smoothly etc.
Then they are also at school all day, they get tired. Hence, a child's patience and tolerance for things, is not always the best.
But again, this is Kindergarten.

Some kids are good at home but not at school.
Then some kids are good at school but not at home.
Even with the best of kids.
It is a huge learning curve, and adjustment, for kids.

As far as my kids' Teachers, they CAN and do know, the various kid personalities. But, along with that, they do have to teach and expect a certain degree of behavior respectfulness, at, school. Any school is this way.
Being "silly" and impulsive... sure, its cute and silly. But, at the wrong times, it is not, cute or silly... it is improper or not conducive to the overall.... behavior expectations of the children. And sometimes it can bother other kids or get other kids into a mode of not listening either. Thus, a teacher has to, manage the children and their conduct.

It could be that your daughter gets "silly" because she is tired. Concentrating or being on task ALL day, can be fatiguing for a child. Hence, they deflate in a way, by doing these "silly" behaviors as a way of distracting themselves, from the task AT hand, that they must do.
Do you know what I mean?
Other kids may just daydream or not listen. Other kids may just go off on their own "silly" habits... as a way to just distract themselves from the demands of learning at the time.

But either way, it can be a maturity thing or that your daughter just needs to learn how to manage, her impulsiveness. And just doing what needs to be done. Even if that means, lining up in a nice way and not bothering others.

I really don't think its the Teacher's, fault.
Teachers know, the personalities of their students. BUT... after awhile, after being reminded several times in several ways... if a child does not then improve then I can see how it can become an issue of "disrespect"... to the Teacher and also to the other students.
Because, no matter what, a child is in a classroom WITH others. Not by themselves. And creating havoc or meandering silliness during a time of instruction, is disrespectful, to the classroom/others/the teacher.
ie: pulling a kids' hair or pushing them in line, is annoying. For all in the classroom and the Teacher. This is, disrespectful. And so is dancing around in music class while a lesson is going on.
And I am sure if other kids are getting annoyed with her behavior, they are telling the Teacher or telling their parent at home. Kids talk about their day.
Then what?

Imagine, the child who's hair got pulled by your daughter, or the child who got pushed by your child... going home and telling their Mom that they got pushed or that your daughter pulled her hair. Imagine being that Mom, that got told this. How would you feel about your child being pushed or her hair pulled? And what would you tell your daughter or the Teacher?
Would you say to your child "its okay to pull hair and push other kids because they are just a 'happy spirit' and silly and like to dance even when it is not appropriate???"

She doesn't need professional help.
She just needs to learn how to behave, in the classroom at school.

I really have to wonder if she is placed correctly in school. She started Kinder at 4...she has only been 5 for two months...I am sure there are children in the class that were 5 at start and now have been six for a few months. That is a whole years worth of growth and maturity.

If she is constantly being compared with students who are older (as much as a full year or more, older) she is going to fall short. Nothing bad on her or you...just it is what it is...she isn't as old as everyone else.

Academics at this age are not the important thing...it is learning the social skills and routines of being in a classroom environment. Sounds like she just might not be ready for this...just like if a child is not getting the whole potty training thing you take a step back allow them some time to mature and then have another go at it...maybe it is time to take a step back...

If you are in a public school they may not allow you to pull her out of Kinder unless you enroll her in another school program...but if they would allow you to move her...I would go with another year of Pre-K (or at this point half a year of Pre-K and let her try Kinder again in the fall).

She has had at this point half a year to get the hang of Kinder and hey, it isn't quite right for her yet. Let her mature and have another go at it...

If you are at a school where they are truly wanting her to be a little "robot" then I would look into another school anyways because the job description for a Kinder teacher is not to expect them to be little robots, but to simply follow directions as expected for their age. Our school expects them to walk in line from place to place without talking...as not to bother the other classrooms. But not to be robotic...just to learn to walk in a straight line, quietly from place to place...

So anyways...my advice...look at her placement and try Kinder again next year...good luck!!

Hmmm...here's my take. First, I cannot imagine any kindergarten teacher expecting robots. It just doesn't seem to fit the job description. It is absolutely true that not every child will mesh with every kid. When I was teaching, I often described disruptive behaviors as silly. Meaning, that while they are disruptive, there is no real mean intent behind them. No malice intended, just something that needs to be curbed or stopped or saved for a more appropriate time. Now bopping her head as she goes down the hall is one thing. Prancing around and pushing people and pulling hair is another. And if the teacher has tried to stop these behaviors and they are continuing, that act of not controlling herself, not following instruction is an act of disrespect. It's not back talking or yelling, but it's still disrespectful not to listen to an authority figure.

But your daughter's behavior does not sound like anything that requires professional help! It's just a life skill she is working on. I too would want to speak to the music teacher. In fact, if the teacher seems to think she is disruptive across the board, I would request a team conference with all the teachers. Put all those heads together and come up with a team plan to help your daughter succeed.

Honestly, I think my own experiences have colored my perspective, even though my kids are not yet in kindergarten, but I had a kindergarten teacher who I still remember as a humorless woman who would get angry at me for enjoying class. She made me uncomfortable - in her class, I felt like being excited about something would get me in trouble, and so the result was I enjoyed almost nothing that year. My brother also had terrible teachers throughout much of elementary school, and it colored his entire view of school and learning. So my gut reaction is that this teacher doesn't like your daughter and so finds fault with her, and if that is the case, you need to get your child out of that class before the teacher does permanent damage. But on reflection, I don't know that it's true (I'm a biased opinion). I just disagree with many of the other posters that this is undoubtedly your daughter's fault and not the teacher's fault.

If it is at all possible, I would ask to sit in on a couple of the classes. Observe your daughter with a critical eye. Is what she is doing just excess energy and excitement, or is it disruptive and possibly disrespectful? How does the teacher correct her? Even though your daughter may behave slightly differently with you in the room (and probably the teacher will, too), it might give you some insight to the ongoing dynamic. Talk to other teachers - if there is a music teacher or a gym teacher - to see if they have the same complaints. Hopefully, by the end of this process, you will at least know what is going wrong and therefore can decide what to do about it with all the pieces in play.

Good luck.

is there a way for you to watch her without her knowing it, in the classroom setting? i'd be very interested in that. just a thought.

Going off to school for the first time is a huge change for a child. It's like being a stranger in a strange land where there are different people, rules, and guidelines. It sounds like your daughter is having a hard learning curve at following the rules. While you see this as 'her happy spirit' you have to remember that the teacher has a classroom of children who are distracted by your daughter's 'happy spirit'.

While she's not in high school and if seems silly to you that her behavior is drawing such attention please try to keep in mind that while the teacher is dealing with your daughter's issues she is not teaching the other children. If it was another child causing disruption in the classroom I'm sure you'd see things a little differently.

I say to tell the teacher that she doesn't act like this at home or when you are out with others. You can't offer insight or assistance other than telling your daughter every day to listen to the teacher and be respectful to others. Let the teacher know that since she's setting the rules then it's up to her to make sure they are followed. If your daughter isn't allowed to participate in some fun stuff because of her behavior then she'll probably make better choices the next time.

This may sound odd, but how's her diet? My daughter went through a very similar phase and that's how I found out that she has a sensitivity to dairy and gluten. She is not intolerant, allergic to these foods or have celiac disease. Rather, when her immune system is weakened (from lack of sleep, major changes at home, illnes, etc.) her body simply can't digest the proteins in those foods. Her behavior would become aggressive and she would almost lose control of her impulses at times. I know know the behavioral signs to look for when her body is run down and decrease her exposure to gluten and dairy during those times. It's not easy but tit totally works. Every child is different, but it's amazing what little dietary changes can do. Maybe start by keeping a food log and see hoe she acts when she eats different things...hope this helped. Hang in there. She's 5 and she's a good kid...she'll be great :)

Sadly there are a lot of teachers out there who have standards for what children should be like and/or want them to be comatose while the children are little. I used to sub and when I had kindgergartners there were teachers who would say to keep them quiet, then yell at them and me for not having perfect lines. Then there were others who got mad at me because I WAS trying to keep them quiet and perfect in lines and once a teacher said they are only kindergartners!!! I explained how I was constantly told conflicting things about their behavior. The truth is this is an opinion. I have also seen teachers who love free spirits, love the creativity like your little one and do not want robots. I applaud them. Professional help? Let her get it on her own one day when she is feeling like the world has tried to control the very thing that makes her her. In the meantime, this is the first in a line of teachers who also aren't perfect and we don't always have to take their opinion as gospel. This hands behind her back stuff really bothers me: I have never, ever seen that. Sounds like heading somewhere bad. I suppose you can go along with this for awhile but I'd get in touch with higher ups if they keep picking on her. She's too young to go through this.

Because you've already heard from some good voices (esp. liking Sandy L., Patricia G. and SH's advice to you)...

My son's kindergarten teacher has a sign on their wall which suggests two good rules:

"We let the teacher teach
We let the other learners learn"

If your daughter is not able to allow those things at school, then yes, have a team meeting. Most teachers do want to work *with* the parents and co-teachers to help the child learn to self-regulate and have a good school experience. Let your daughter know that recess is the time for her free spirit to shine through, and when she's at school, she's there to learn and to help the teacher be able to help others learn.

(For what it's worth, I've seen plenty of little darlings at home become their own creatures at school. Having a peer audience is like a hundredfold reward when they are goofing around!)

I would not search for professional help. It sounds to me that your daughter is like my GD at that age - it's playtime all the time! I had such a hard time getting my GD to take things seriously. She was just wired for play. Sounds like your daughter is the same.

My GD grew out of it. Each school year got better and now her teacher has no more complaints other than she is a bit talkative, but not to the point of being a real problem (his words).

As for disrespect, I would ask the teacher for a VERY SPECIFIC example. Sometimes teachers just get tired of the goofy kids and at some point start seeing the same behavior in a different way.

Teachers are people; they get up on the wrong side of the bed sometimes just like the rest of us, and that tends to reflect on how they view the students.

I agree that the teacher is just exasperated with your daughter's "happy spirit" and that she (the teacher) would be much happier of your daughter were a robot who walked in silence with her hands behind her back and her eyes forward. Sorry teach, that's just not in the cards for this child. Deal with it!

Your post could be me talking about my son last year when he started Kindergarten. He was great in preschool, the teachers loved him, then he started Kindergarten. He was referred to counseling at the school, and I had numerous conferences with the teacher and once even with the principal because my son would do things like push another kid, not listen to the teacher, etc. Me and my family reacted the same way you did(suprised, I even had the teacher call the preschool staff to talk to them), and my approach was to do whatever the school asked me, to so that they could see we were willing to work on the issues. Eventually, it got better and my son actually liked going to the counselor. His birthday is in August, so he barely turned 6 when he started Kindergarten and I think a lot of it had to do with maturity. Just reinforce what the teacher is doing in the class and be open to their suggestions. Your daughter will learn what she can and can't do and at home she can go on being her great silly self! Good luck!

I would request that she be put in another kindergarden class and see if it improves. If not that school might not be for her. Also pop up one day during recess and say you want to go observe. Make someone sign you in and go watch.

Not all kids thrive with all teachers, she may just need to change classes.

My son was very much the same, praised in pre-k, trouble in kinder. First grade he did well again, but second grade was back to being challenging. The difference was the teachers he had. He had trouble with "old school" type teachers but very well with those that were more relaxed (his sister was the opposite)

I would first talk with the school counselor and see what changes can be made, the winter break may be a good time to make a switch. If you are afraid of offending the teacher, you can tell her you thought your daughter need a fresh start.

My daughter's behavior at school is very different from at home, as well. That was one of the clues regarding her sensory issues... the expectations and tasks at school are very different at school and also the environment is different. Have you considered having her tested by an OT? Some of the behaviors you describe sound like "sensory seeking behaviors" which are the kinds of things that get them in trouble in class. It's not fair to punish a child for behavior that is beyond their understanding or control; it IS fair to give them coping tools and strategies so that they can meet classroom expectations (or so that there can be alterations to help them meet expectations). You may want to be certain that what is being asked of her is within her physical control...even if you see a play therapist or behavior therapist, get the OT testing done too.

Due to some motor planning and motor skills issues, my daughter has great difficulty being stationary and with balance...guess what teachers like little kids to do? Sit STILL and upright on the floor for circle time or when at the table....a task that is VERY difficult for my daughter and which builds up stress, anxiety and over time becomes too challenging for her. Also, the classroom environment is abuzz with constant sound, which is actually overwhelming at times to my daughter due to sensory issues...she becomes upset that it is too loud to hear herself think, which is NOT something you usually thing about with a 5 year old. My daughter has vestibular, propriceptive and tactile sensory issues, as well as motor planning issues, all of which impact classroom behavior. She looks as normal as any other kid, but the way she process the world around her isn't exactly the same. How do you know HOW your child hears or how your child feels physically in her own body? It's worth investigating.

She's not being immature. She's just being a kid. Keep in mind children often act dfferently in school than at home, so that's normal too. What it does sound like is that she is either bored or has lots of energy to burn off. If she's bored, she should be tested to see if she's gifted or advanced. If she has a lot of energy to burn off, you might want to enroll her in kung fu class, which will teach self-control. Your daughter says she can't stop her behavior, then ask her why and give her pointers on how. Whatever you do, do not let them hold her back in kindergarten. She has to go to 1st grade. Kindergarten is too boring and holding her back is not going to make that much of a difference.