Just Some Much-needed Advice

I agree with Vicki's advice. Are you not in love with your husband because of the financial stress? You need to figure out how you truly feel and if your marriage is worth saving? Marriage counseling can be found on income based fees. Both you and your hubby need to be on the same page regarding children, finances and marriage or it will not work. This doesn't mean you can't disagree, many of us do. Dave Ramsey is awesome for financial leadership. He has counselers all over the world. Make a list of all your debt and go see one-you'll be amazed as I was. When a couple has bill collectors calling constantly, it does create a lot of stress especially on a marriage. Maybe once the financial stress is eased, your marriage might get better. Counseling for the children is a good idea too, so they can vent and learn ways to prevent the same behavior in themselves.Good luck in whatever you decide to do

I couldn't say it any better than Jan just did! I was in a similar position with my husband just a few years ago; unresolved issues about money and initiative brewed for years and finally came to a big, ugly blowout which resulted in him leaving the house for a while. I was up and down during this time, relieved at the peace in the house, optimistic about the wide open future ahead of me, devastated at the loss of all the things I loved about my husband and defeated that I was going to be just one more statistic.

Since divorce has become such a phenomenon I think it puts a lot of unfair pressure on wives to walk out when the going gets tough. A lot of women make others feel as though we're weak for not leaving unhappy situations when we should be heralded for having the strength to endure! (Abusive relationships excluded)

Once I made the decision that this was going to work and I received the commitment from him (which is a MUST, this won't work without his recognition of the problem and his devotion to resolving it) I was amazed at how quickly things started to fall into place. I couldn't believe that it was really that simple all along but we were in over our heads and so overwhelmed that we just didn't see it.

Another bit of advice, if you have a happily married couple that you admire and trust then see what suggestions they have for you. Brian and I had been unsuccesful in professional counseling but had a lot of things put into perspective for us by a couple that we are friends with. They had also "been there, done that" and were kind enough to offer their words of wisdom and support when we seperated.

These would be my 2 suggestions
www.daveramsey.com
http://www.fireproofmymarriage.com/
hth

Hi honey...I know you've gotten a LOT of advice here, but let me add one more:

RUN (don't walk) to the phone (get the # from www.daveramsey.com )and sign up for "Financial Peace University". Heck, you can get the CD set on Amazon.com. We didn't even take the classes, just listened to the cds and got out of $11,000 debt in under 3 MONTHS! SAVED our marraige!

I also wrote a helpful article describing how I did it! If you send me your email I'd be more than happy to send it to you (that goes for anyone here)!

Good luck, sweetie....oh, and try not to fight in front of the little ones...even say with clenched teeth, "Daddy, let's discuss this later"......((hugs))

Hi J.,

My heart goes out to you. It sounds like you're having a very hard time dealing with all of the responsibilities of life, and that you are trying to handle it all by yourself.

I am a divorced woman. My husband and I divorced after a 21 year marriage, and I can tell you that it was the worst pain I have ever experienced in my life. I cannot believe that divorce will solve your problems, in fact, it will make everything harder and worse.

What you have going for you right now, being married, is that there is two of you. Two to work, two to strategize, two to think about solutions, two to make decisions, two to take care of the children, the house, the cars, the yard, etc. If you get divorced, it will ALL be on you. You will have to make ALL the money, pay all the bills, make all the decisions, and take care of the children, the house, the cars, and the yard by yourself. There isn't one thing that is easy or fun about being a single mother. Its hard ALL of the time. There is never enough of you to go around. Someone is always wanting more of your energy, or time, or money, or something. If you think its hard now, just triple it and then you'll get the idea.

Secondly, getting divorced will NOT get the creditors off of your back. Your credit score will nose dive, so you'll have even more trouble getting financing for things, you'll pay more for things like utilities and to pay off your credit cards, etc. After I got divorced, EVERY one of my credit cards immediately raised all of my interest rates from their very lowest offers, like 9.99% or lower, to 24.99% or 29.99%. Being divorced is a negative on your credit rating, and things will get worse.

In addition to that, you and your husband will have to divide up what you currently owe. What if you dispute the charges? Well, if you are in DE, it won't matter. DE is a no fault state (as are many others) meaning, it doesn't matter if you spent the money or not, you will still have to pay 1/2. My friend's husband opened up credit cards she didn't even know about, and were only in his name, and charged up over $50,000 in debt to visit PROSTITUTES, and do you know what the court ordered in their divorce? It ordered that SHE had to pay 1/2 of those credit cards back! She had to take out a 2nd mortgage on her home so she could pay off his debt so that HE could visit prostitutes! No, a divorce will not solve your money problems, they will get worse.

I remember when I was married, how I wanted to get a divorce because I blamed him for what was wrong with us, and I thought that if he went away, I could make things better on my own in my own way. Well, my life is 10 times harder now than it was when I was married. If you love your husband, and you are faithful to each other and want to work it out, then you can.

Here are a couple of my suggestions.

First, you have to have a sit-down with your husband and establish that you are on the same team, with the same goals. Fighting against each other isn't solving the problems, in fact, it is creating more. Different people react differently to situations. Sometimes when someone we love isn't reacting in the same way we are reacting, we take it as they don't care. I'm sure your husband cares as much as you do, but he is handling it differently. Maybe the way he is handling it isn't solving the problem or helping the situation, but you can't control how another person reacts. And by insisting that they do a certain thing a certain way, you are creating even more resistance.

Try this. Go to your husband and say gently, "Honey, I know that you care about our financial future just as much as I do. And I trust you to make the right decisions for our family." Kiss him and rub his shoulders, and then leave it alone. Let him handle it. DON'T handle it for him. Don't answer the phone. Don't negotiate payments, etc. If he asks you to do so, respond by saying, "As soon as we've discussed a plan on how we are going to solve this problem so that we can both be on the same page, I'll be happy to work with you. Until then, I am going to just rely on you to do this work for our family."

I have a friend named Nancy who is a personal credit coach. She is completely legitimate (and there are a lot of scammers out there, believe me.) She will meet with you and your husband, talk to you about your situation, and discuss solutions with you. The best thing is she gives you a written action plan that you and your husband can do on your own, or that she can help you with. She is very reasonable price-wise as well. Sometimes getting a third person in there to recommend solutions.

However you do it, you HAVE to come up with a plan you are both comfortable with and that you will both commit to. And then you both have to work the plan. Which means, you have to agree on how much you will be spending on certain necessities, and how much you will be saving, and how much you will be committing to paying off bills. You also have to agree on how much you will both be working vs. providing child care. If he wants you to go to work full time, and if you have adequate child care you can afford, then you should be willing to do that. However, if you getting a full time job means you won't be available to do alot of the same things you do now, he should be willing to chip in to pull up the slack. Or, if he'd rather take on a second part-time job in order for you to stay home and be available to the kids, then he should be willing to do that. You see, there are just so many ways to do everything, and if you work together, the chances of getting yourselves back on solid ground are better than either or you going it alone.

And, remember, love is also like a bank account. You have to make love deposits regularly in order to make withdraws. Finances and children are big withdraws, so you both need to be making up for that with lots of deposits into each other's love banks. If you don't continue to make deposits, your love banks will be overdrawn, and you will not feel the feelings of love any more. Begin by making little deposits in his love account, and see if he doesn't reciprocate for you. If he isn't a total selfish jerk, he will.

Most of all, you have to find a way to work together, and accept each other for the different ways you approach problems, and trust each other. You can work through this, and believe me, if you do, you and your children will be much better off in the end.

L.

I know this goes against all we are taught by society, but love is not a feeling it is a decision. you have said that you love your husband, but are not in love with him. that is okay- it is normal in a relationship to have ups & downs, it is how you chose to weather those storms that counts (remember the vows- in sickness & health, good times & bad?). it sounds like you would prefer to make things work. You are certainly in a down point, but you can make it through. As wives & mothers it is normal to feel unappreciated at times- but we are called to this 'job' to serve our husbands and children with all our hearts in love. It is no easy task to serve when you do not see any immediate approval and we feel unloved in return- but we must be strong & continue in our work(by serve, I mean cook, clean, be emotionally & physically available to our families & do the general tasks involved in being a mom & wife). First, find a support system- be it one friend, a group of friends or a church- some one who you can get together with to talk, and who will listen & not judge. Then, find help- a financial counselor who can help you get your finances in order. Perhaps also a marriage counselor who can help you rebuild your marriage (I would recommend a Christian counselor- even if you are not a Christian, or religious, I believe most secular counselors might be more apt to advise divorce as the best option)
Another thing to remember, men can be very sensitive. unfortunatly, as men, they sometimes find it difficult to share their deepest thoughts & feelings. It could be that your husband is avoiding the calls, and the discussions, because he wants so desperatly to be the supporter of the family, but he is feeling like a failure. As difficult as it is, try to be sensitive to him- lovingly reassure him that you are in this together. that even though you are struggling, you will stand by him. it won't be easy, and you will have arguments, but if he knows that you will be there no matter what, it might just help bring him around to helping with a solution. I'm sure in the heat of a discussion, the threat of a divorce might seem to be the only way to get through to him, but it is probably having the opposite of your desired effect. He needs to know that his wife is behind him. Just as we like frequent approval for what we contribute as moms & wives, men too need frequent approval and affirmation from their wives.
I don't intend to sound too harsh or judgemental, so I apologize if I do. I am a strong believer that marriage is worth saving & divorce is not an option. Stay strong.

J.,

Please don't give up on your marriage without seeing a counselor first. I know money struggles are tough...but your money struggles won't end if your marriage does...they will probably only get worse (at least in the short term). I don't know where you live, but my family has seen an AWESOME counselor in Hershey, and all but the co-pay is covered by our health insurance.

You need to have a plan to tackle your finances and BOTH of you need to buy into it. Maybe it will take one (or both of you) picking up an extra job until things get under control and cut out ALL unnecessary spending. If he will not agree to work with you, it won't work, but maybe a counselor could help him see what he stands to lose if he can't/won't do this.

before taking the divorce step, try therapy. i went through the same thing about 2 years ago, we were married 5 years and had 2 children at the time. i honestly believe that if we didnt do therapy we would have been divorced. mine was a different situation, my husband financially was taking care of us but that was it. there was no emotional connection to me or our children, he stared questioning whether he wanted to be a husband and a father. it was nice having a 3rd party to listen to us and offer their opionin. my husband wanted a divorce, but his parents got divorced when he was very young and it was messy, my parents on the other hand have been married 31 years and my parents had arguments but worked it out. at first therapy was hard for my husband to admit his faults, but eventually after a year he began to communicate. we stopped therapy last january and welcomed our 3rd child in late august. i owe my therapist because i honestly believe we would have been divorced, still miserable and i wouldnt have my 3rd child. i hope this helps and just try everything before giving up.

Your money problems are going to exist whether you file for divorce or not. The decision to divorce should be separated from your money problems. Before throwing away your whole long marriage b/c of this stressful time; I recommend first resolving your money issues. When they are resolved you will be able to look at the marriage itself & see if its worth saving. Since you still have positive things to say about your husband I would guess that it is worth saving & you can do it. (It sounds like your husband is one of those people who runs & hides when he doesn't know what to do. They avoid the issue & hope it goes away. Maybe if you approach him with a plan about the money; he will be able to join you).
You should start with some type of credit counseling to get your finances in order. There are lots of programs available right now. Try to find one. You may not be as bad off as you think.
Good luck.

Hi! I know these times are so hard but think that you should go to a bankrupcy lawyer and file. Then take some time alone even if it is one night go to the movies or out to eat take some time for just the two of you to get back what you have lost do to all the stress. Don't be ashamed to file, It is a better solution than breaking up your family and possibly ruining your whole family. I really feel your husband doesn't know what to do either and is also depressed. There is no doubt money problems really make you do things you never thought you would do.Just hang in there and work on it. I had a friend go through bankrupcy and as soon as she filed the bill collectors stopped calling. I really feel you will feel a huge weight lifted off your shoulders. Once the stress relieves I feel you will be able to patch your marriage. If he is a good dad and he isen't abusive give him a chance. Good Luck!

I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling a lot of pressure right now in your marriage. When we marry, we promise "for better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness, and in health," don't we? Many times that promise becomes forgotten when we encounter problems between us and our spouse,and problems are inevitable even in the best of marriages. It is God who created the beautiful union known as marriage and the family. It is He who has promised wisdom to those who seek it with their whole hearts. It does not work to try to change our spouse, but with God's help we can begin looking for/complimenting him on the things that made us fall in love with him in the first place. Prepare his favorite meal, do something that you know that he especially likes and you will like the response. We ladies--at least, I--have things which I need to pull up on to make our marriage better. Focus on and ask God's help to be a better wife and you may be pleasantly surprised at how he also begins to be more considerate toward you. Marriages fall apart today so fast because we forget in what order things should go: JOY--Jesus 1st, Others 2nd, and You (us) last. Wishing you the best!

Hi J.,

It sounds to me that the two of you really are in need of sitting down and having a heart to heart. You say you still love him, but are not in love with him - that is because you are frustrated and disappointed in him for not handling the situation the way you feel he should. The two of you are married and are a team. He may not feel he can get out from under the debt and may just be scared - men have a tendancy to ignore situations they do not know how to solve. If the two of you work together perhaps you can work out a plan. Are you spending more than you are bringing in? Can you get a part time job? or is childcare an issue? Many creditors (especially now) are more than happy to make arrangements with customers. But you and your husband need to figure out a plan to get out of debt if that is your biggest problem. You need to figure out how much you have coming in, and what it takes to live (needs not wants) What are you using credit cards for? is it to splurge on stuff that you cant really afford? You two got into this mess together and if you can make a plan together you may just work things out.

I think you need to tell him how you feel - not make threats about leaving unless you intend to make good on that threat. Threats are games and have no place in a relationship. - Good luck!

Remember the vow that you made:
"...for better or worse...till death do us part"
Please don't take those vows too lightly.
A marriage is not based on the financial stability of the household. Your husband is probably feeling like a failure and is just caving in on himself. He doesn't know how to cope with your life situation. I understand where that puts you too. You just want him to stand up and be a man. And he just wants you to layoff of him.
Can I please recommend that you go rent the movie Fireproof. It is a great movie with an awesome message about saving your marriage. You both need to watch it TOGETHER.
God's blessings be upon you.
T.

I can feel your pain thru that text! You are doing fine for your children, I know you just feel so stuck. I think divorce is not for you right now. Take over doing all the bills for the household. Call your creditors and set up payments. Ignoring it is THE WORST thing you can do! They are usually willing to work with you as long as you stay in touch! Sometimes $5 or $10 a month will keep things even keel until you're on more solid ground. Forget about your husband being "the man" of the house and take charge yourself if he can't and won't. Set up a budget for your family. Check out Dave Ramsey "Total Money Makeover" If your husband is not doing anything, then you should. If he's like living with a roommate, then just treat it that way for the time being. Work on your finances, then your romance. You guys have kids to support! Next, sell whatever you can to pay-off your debt as fast as possible. And think outside the box - can you survive with one car? Sell one if you have two. Can you move to a smaller home? Be drastic, if necessary. Next, find a way to grab some extra income...are you crafty? Can you cook? Have a couple neighborhood kids to your place to babysit - that helps both you AND other moms! THEN...when you are more secure, stable and confidant, have a long talk with your husband. Who knows - by then maybe you'll have inspired him with all of your hard work and he'll have jumped on your bandwagon! Good luck - I hope you feel better soon...

J.,
I feel so bad for you and your situation, the only advice I coulds give you is that happy children need a happy mom.

Shant'e

Hi J.,
$$$ is the #1 reason for divorce in the U.S. I used to work in the credit card industry and I can tell u from personal experience, that there IS HELP OUT THERE.
Whatever your financial problems are, please reach out to your creditors and often times you can get interest and late fees ELIMINATED. Then u can consolidate and pay down your debt.
My guess is once u get the financial situation under control, you'll be able to breathe again. Then you can begin working on your relationship with your husband. I bet you can make it work!
Good luck to you.
L.

IMO, the example and model that you need to set for your daughters is making every possible effort to save your marriage, so that they will see marriage as the serious, lifelong committment it is - and that I think you believe it to be. If you did not, you'd be gone by now,and I commend you for your effort. Seeing you and your husband work through this and agani become a loving husband and wife will be a powerful life and relationship lesson for them for the rest of their lives.

You and your husband need financial counseling and marriage counseling. If he does not want to see the marriage end, make these REQUIREMENTS for your staying. Buy or borrow the book THE LOVE DARE. Read it. Try it. You don't give any kind indication of whether God is a part of your lives, but I hope He is or can be. I know what He can do to heal hearts and change lives and marriages, I can tell you this from personal experience. I wish I'd had that book when my husband and I went through our storm years ago. I didn't think I loved him enough to stay married to him either, but you'd never be able to find a happier, healthier marraige than we have now.

Please do not give up - fix the money problems and give the counseling a try; give it some time. I can't promise your story will end like mine, but there ARE happy endings to be had, when both spouses are willing to sacrifice and work together with a concrete plan.

Does your health insurance cover counseling? Could you possibly afford to go to a marriage counselor together? You have every reason to be completely angry with him, but if you don't want to get divorced, counseling is the next step. He's being completely irresponsible to you and your children, he needs to step up and fix all of this financial mess, even if that means getting a 2nd job for a little while to catch up. He won't listen to you, maybe he'll listen to a professional or at least tell his side of it so you can be more sympathetic to him. I'm against divorce except under extreme circumstances. Remember that because you still have children, he will always be in your life, so it won't really make you feel the releif you crave. However, if your financial future is in jeapardy because of his carelessness, you should consult with a laywer. Good luck.

I can sympathize with how you feel. I deal with all the money stuff and we are like you. My husband tries to help but then ignores it not on purpose but he has trouble dealing with the stress of it and he gets depressed and then he also has heart problems so I hesitate to tell him things too. We entered a credit settlement program to help with the credit csrd debt. We still have creditors calling but I send the numbers to our credit settlement company and they talk with them so tht helps a little. It is a hard decsion you are facing but don't let your money problems be why you are leaving. Try counseling maybe, you want to make sure you have tried everything so you won't regret your decsion. You have to take one day at a time and try to think and stay positive. My husband and I are working 7 jibs between us trying to make ends meet and it is hard and then me trying to keep everything afloat is vert stressful plus add his health issues and I am in the middle of trying to get my daughter evaluated it is just hard. Hope that helped a little. Feel free to email me if you want to talk. Hang in there!!

I am sorry you are going through this. I too went through a divorce as a child and it was rough. However, my mother re-married 3 years later to a wonderful man. I feel I got to see a marriage that did not work as well as one that did. I see my mother as a strong woman who does what is best for herself and her children. She always told me that she decided to leave when she realized the problems (my biological father is an alcoholic) were affecting me and my younger brother. If you are miserable, your children know that. Have you considered counseling? Marriage and financial? Just a thought. You are stronger than you know! My prayers are with you.

Hi J.,
I'm so sorry that your family is in this position right now. I just wanted to also recommend Dave Ramsey's programs for financial wisdom. I personally have not had experience with his program, but have many friends who have. It has really helped them prioritize their expenses. Another thing I wanted to "second" was the Fireproof movie and resources. It's a recent movie that is now on DVD about a couple who is on the verge of divorce. My husband said that every husband should watch it - it's eye opening to the needs of a man and the needs of a woman. A counselor is also a great idea. If you can't afford one or insurance won't cover it, I know a lot of churches give free counseling. I feel like men are more likely to listen to a third party than their wife sometimes. Please don't give up. The stress of your debt is eating at you, and most likely at your husband. Like others said, he is probably at a loss as to how to fix it. Men like to fix things and hate feeling like failures. I would do some serious praying if I were you and see what God is saying in all of this. Best wishes and I hope you and your husband can reconnect. Don't give up!

J.,
I really feel for you and your situation. You say that you can't talk to your family but is there a family member that you and your girls could live with if it came to that? Have you tried taking over the family's financials i.e. having your husband turn over his paycheck and you administer the money? If he is ambivelent about the finances, he may not put up much of a fight if you take over. Once you have the reigns, you should start calling every company that you owe and start negotiating payments. A lot of people are struggling to pay bills right now so it's a good time to negotiate lower payments or deferred payments. I guess what I'm saying to you is that a divorce right now is more an emotional protests and would make your financial situation even worse. Why not do what you can to keep your household intact for now and when you can get better footing to be on your own (if need be), then you can talk divorce. I also think that before you let go of this marriage you should really talk seriously with your husband about the fact that you will leave him if he does not help run the household and provide better for his family. Be very clear and specific with this ultimatum so that he knows its not just an empty threat- then give him time and the opportunity (i.e. make him negotation some of the bills, create a budget, etc.) to rise to the challenge. His actions, will make up your mind about the divorce. I believe there's more to raising children than just "loving" them, you also have to provide stability and safety for their future. I'm a child of divorce myself. My parents divorced when I was a toddler,so I know what its like not only to have a nonexistent father (he drank and decided to spent his money this way which is a main reason my mom divorced)but to have just a mom supporting you. I can tell you that like with my mom was hard but we look back on those years with fondness and today it has made me more appreciative of everything.
J., I wish you all the best. I'll be praying for you and your family.

Hi J.,

Go the your local Better Business Bureau. They have credit counselors. They can help you.

Take a breath. If the creditors come and start proceedings let them. You will survive. It will help you get from under all your responsibilities.

Go to your local BBB and they will help you.

Good luck. All the Best. D.

You need to call one of the credit card companies on the phone that helps with debt of over $5000. they will help you negotiate with your creditors so you can get things paid off and and have debts reduced. another thing is to see about having the house refinanced or see what you can do so the house does not go into foreclosure. tell him that you need to figuer this out together or you will have no choice but to seperate from him. ask him calmly if he is willing to lose his family because he does not want to deal with the issues at hand. if he is working then i hope you are the ones paying bills. cut up all the credit cards if you have them. try to work it out. in the end it will be better for everyone. when the kids are grown and you still are not happy then you can do what you need to do.

Let's start with the problems. You are totally stressed out and your knight in shining armor fell off his trusty steed somewhere along the way. . . .

He is probably stressed about the money, too, but he handles it by ignoring it, leaving you STUCK.

What you need to do is get the budget straightened out. Check out Daveramsey.com. He's written books, one of which you might be able to afford and read TOGETHER, and use to work together to straighten out the financial mess. The other option, is to pay for his class (FInancial Peace University), generally offered through churches. It's a 13 week class, and it's VERY good, helps you to get your values and your budgeting brains working together, so you BOTH work at solving the problem. By attacking the real problem, it'll help you to stop attacking each other, and once you get your lives focused on solving the problem together, you'll feel better about your marriage.

When we are totally stressed, and have no resources left, we do not ever feel we are still in love. But if you were to walk away, you would have to decide who would support the children, who would take the responsibility for the joint bills, and how would you survive on your own, with or without the children? If he's running from the debtors now, even if you walked away leaving him with all the debt, who's going to support the kids ? Are you taking them with you, and expecting child support? Or are you leaving them with him, and just plain leaving everyone you love behind?

On the other hand, one does not stay in a bad marriage "for the kids". That's not healthy for the kids. It would simply mean that they grow up in a dysfunctional home, and they learn that marital relationships simply suck. They don't have to suck, but they only work if both people work at it.

And since the big problem is financial, I suggest you guys work the financial side. you CAN live more cheaply, you CAN work out the issues, and you CAN get to the point where you are on an even financial keel. At that point, you'll have more emotional resources, and you'll be able to take a more realistic look at your marriage and decide whether it's an asset or not. But if you don't work at the financial problems you have now, don't expect them to go away just because you are single. My experience is that being a single mom is a whole lot tougher than having 2 adults in the home, and you would each have to pay for an apt or home, and the expenses simply double while the income rarely does. So separating won't solve the problem.

If you live in North Western Pa, Greenfield Baptist Church is sponsoring a Financial Peace University class, on Sunday nights, starting in March. The church # is 814=725=4160. You don't have to be church related to participate.

Hi there,

Sounds like you've answered your own question. You said that you're not in love with him anymore. Would you want your daughters to do the same if they were in a similar circumstance? Would you ever want them to compromise themselves just to be with someone? If so, continue to stay with your husband. You're doing a great job of modeling just this.

The fact is that you are not happy. Stop making excuses that he's a really good dad and that you're making him out to be some bad guy. Being a good dad has nothing to do with anything. Besides, a good dad would respect the fact that his wife put away money for their children -- not go out and spend it.

If you choose to leave and provide your daughters with an excellent model that yes, despite any circumstance, one always has a choice and that her self esteem and sense of pride are the most important possessions a person has, you need to network and find some counseling to help you get together a plan. Help is out there for you. You are not the only one who has been in this situation. That is, if you choose to honor yourself.

I wish you only the best of luck, J..

T. :)

Honestly, It sounds like your whole family is depressed and understandibly so. You are depressed and stressed with the weight of the world on your sholders and he sounds like is so depressed he has stooped trying. I have been there. I am going to suggest you stay together and support each other. I am even going to say, print out all of this advice and leave it out for him to read. Let him know you were at the point where you were ready to leave, but you do not want to do that. Talk to him. I know your finances are shot but go for counciling. Church counselors are usually little or no costs. I agree with some of the other moms that fireproof is a great movie, but it is not going to solve things for you.
You must be honest with yourself. Leaving him will NOT make things easier for you. Trust me you will be poorer, more depressed, lonley, and you will regret the decision. I have been married for 13 years now and I have known my husband for 18. We had times where we hated each other and came close to divorce on two occasions. Money is a big stress, but leaving is not the answer, it will just add to your problems. If the calls are getting to be to much, turn the ringer off on all of your phones. Instead of fighting hard with creditors, fight hard to save your marriage. In the end you will find it is worth it. Just a little side note. I am worried about your husband's depression. Suicide rates are climbing, and a lack of involvement can be one of the first steps in that direction. Please keep a close eye on him. Please try to find help. I hate to see someone give up on a marriage, I have always believed that unless someone is being physically hurt, things can be worked out. You need to force his hand to get help with you and talk with one another. Your kids will not understand it now, but when they grow up and have a marriage of their own someday they will apreciate it. I look back at my parents. They were married for 20 years and gave up when we left for college. I can honestly say I look at that divorce as them being lazy and selfish. I lost a lot of respect for them. I know you do not want your kids thinking that of you.

Have you considered talking to a marriage councelor and a financial planner? They might be able help him see how his spending habits and lack of responsibility are affecting your family. You need to talk to the bank that holds your mortgage TOGETHER to see if you qualify for help through the new stimulus package. Hope the situation improves for you.

Maybe see if you can get a free consultation w/a lawyer to get some advice. I kinda have the same thing going on in that we can't afford our bills, yet my husband does "side work" and spends that on his hobbies. Once in awhile he will come around and get the bills in order, but when I give him the checkbook and say you do it, I get it back and he never takes over. I've been trying to find work at home for over a yr and w/2 kids I can't be selling stuff so I've found nothing. I've gotten the consult and found out how much child support and alimony I'd be eligible for and have researched daycare assistance, food stamps, health insur, for the kids, maybe start there??? Good luck to you.

J.,
It sounds like the main issue you and your husband have is the money. I too grew up with divorced parents and it is not fun. Unfotunately, money is the number one cause of divorce. I hate to see people get divorced especially over something like money. There was something that drew the two of you together in the beginning and he has been faithful so hopefully you can work it out. My husband and I are in a marriage class at church and I have learned that sometimes the woman has to initiate things like the positive strokes and even sex. Men need that from their wife for their self esteem I have just learned from the counselors teaching the class. We have been married 13 years and have 4 kids and have been like the 2 of you. I have been trying this and it does work. Sometimes it is hard to initiate things but a marriage is worth it. I try to remember how I acted when we were dating and first married and how blissful it was. He really likes that and is nicer and sweeter in return.

I just read the book by Dave Ramsey, "The total Money Makeover." I checked it out at the library and it was an incredible book! Of course I did have to wait for it as I was about the 3rd person on the waiting list for it. He too had money problems and went through bankruptcy twice and finally figured out how to be completely debt free. I read about his book and plan from the blog www.moneysavingmom.com (which I learned about from Mamasource) by women who had followed his plan with their husbands and are now debt free. I would encourage you to read his book. He is also on cable tv around 8 or 9 pm on channel 106 on Comcast in Chester Springs.

He gives a very simple step by step method of becoming completely debt free. His advice is to start small by paying off the smallest debt first, then moving on to the second smallest and so on. His book is very encouraging and I think it would change your life. I read it first and then mentioned it to my husband. If I told him he should read it then he never would have pick it up. So I started reading it and then mentioned a few things and told him how good it was. As soon as I finished it he started reading it. I didn't even have to ask him. There's that delicate balance between asking them and nagging them, if you know what I mean! I am still working on that!

Good Luck!
M.

hi J. i am so sorry for what you are going through..but i am not going to preach to you and tell you to stay or leave you have to follow your heart. and do what's best for you and your kids.and if you are not inlove with him anymore are you doing you or your children any justice in staying..maybe you can try a marriage counselor he or she might be able to get your husband back on track to take responsibility for his actions and bring the both of you closer together..

i hope this helps
god blesss and good luck!!!
S.,

Wow, you have gotten a lot of responses. I hope that it helps to know that people care about you and your family. You and your husband are a team, you are both going through this. It sounds like your husband is ashamed of what has happened and doesn't know what to do. It is easier to ignore the problem than to look at it. I understand that it doesn't help, but maybe you should talk to him about how it is making him feel and if he thinks it is a good example for your children to just ignore your problems. It doesn't matter whose fault it is or how you have gotten to this point. All that matters is working on getting out of it and staying out of it. I know that it is easy to play the blame game, even with yourself, but that won't help now. The situation you are in has nothing to do with you as a person,you have made mistakes and so has he, but this shouldn't turn you into someone that you do not like or recognize anymore. You have a choice to not make the same mistakes your parents did, you can still give your children happiness. You recognize that it is a problem, make the effort to NOT curse, or yell. I realize that it is easier said than done, but it sounds like you truly care about how your attitude affects your children, so I believe you can do it differently.
Why can't you talk to your family(parents, siblings, grandparents, uncles, aunts...)because it's embarrassing or because they are not supportive?
My thoughts and prayers are with you, I hope that you and your husband can reconnect and figure this out together.

What good is it to stay for your kids if you are "cursing and yelling" all the time? Your children will benefit more from a happy mom than a married mom.

It has been 3 years since I left my husband. I was married for 18 years and have a "now" 15 year old son and 10 year old daughter. It had to be the hardest thing I have ever did. I wanted to leave for a long time (at least a few years) but I had never lived on my own. I went from living with my parents to getting married and living with my husband. I did not take care of the bills and really felt very dependent. I was scared of course and did not know if I could support myself and my kids financially.

I just woke up one day and was so tired of the fighting and being so unhappy and taking it out on my kids that I decided it was "time". Long story short, I wrote him a letter and said I was going to leave with the kids. From there, I went into action and got a storage unit and started little by little putting personal things in it and then I met with friends (I have no family close by) and each one seemed to help in diffrent ways. One helped me figure out my bills and what I could afford, etc. and another helped me look at places to live.

I can't say it was easy and even after 3 years it has been a struggle but I love being my own person and being happy again. I know your situation is different with the financial issues but being happy is so important for you and your kids.

Nobody can tell you what you should or should not do and people are going to criticize no matter what but YOU need to do what YOU feel is the right thing to do.

Good luck!!!

You and your family will be in my prayers. My first recommendation is to contact a credit counseling agency. I did several years ago and it was the best thing for me. The phone stopped ringing continuously. You may also want to see a marriage counselor. When I was growing up my parents fought all the time and we children heard everything and it eventually hurt our relationship with our father. I do not believe that staying in a marriage just for your kids and because you are afraid to start over is right. Our relationship with our father was actually better when my parents were separated because they were not fighting all the time and we actually got to spend time together. And if you are afraid of the divorce hurting your children their are tons of support systems out there. I am not saying that getting a divorce is what you should do but after taking the proper steps before that is maybe what the result will be. If your husband does not want to take these steps such as credit and marriage counseling then maybe he really doesn't want to save your relationship. God Bless you and your family.

I too am in pretty much the exact same situation. My husband and I have been together since I was 16, I am going to be 35 this year. We have been married for 10 years going on 11. He has put me through so much over the years and I question every day why I stay. I could be so much happier alone with no one to answer to. I had a great opportunity to get a night time job so it would cut down on the cost of daycare, right now we are paying over 1500 a month, unfortunately he is refusing to comprimise so this could work. Instead he is saying that he will have to man up and get another job or do more side work so I could just stay home with the kids. I LOVE my kids with all of my heart, but I would go out of my mind not working. I need to do something. Plus, if he were to do that, where does that leave us? It leaves me basically as a single parent of 2 anyway so why don't we just sell the house and both go on our merry ways? we are both miserable and the kids know it. We don't talk, we don't go out, we don't do anything together, so why are we still together. I too am at a loss. Sorry this isn't any advise on what you should do I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this and there are people who are going through the same things as you.
Please feel free to keep in touch.

Hi J.,
Money issues are the number 1 reason of divorce in this country. You are where LOTS of other people have been before you.
O. thing that worries me in your post is that you say anytime you "manage to put money aside for the kids, he finds it and spends it" To me, that raises a res flag for an addiction issue--be it alcohol, drugs, gambling etc. If that is NOT an issue with your husband, forgive me--it just sounds harsh for a guy to take & spend money meant to be for his kids.
If it IS the issue, nothing else suggested is going to help and the addiction issue needs to to be addresses as soon as possible.
That said, if you fell that the issue is more O. of irresponsibility, feeling overwhelmed, not knowing where to begin, etc., then you need to RUN to the library and get Dave Ramsey's book (either Financial Peace or The Total Money Makeover). Don't worry about all the exterraneous stuff & materials, just concentrate on the 10-step plan to get out of debt once and for all. It is simple, easy to understand. It is written from the perspective of a Christian, but even if you are not--you will get a GREAT deal of advice and peace from this plan. Feel free to PM me if you want more info on how it works. It's not magic, it takes hard work, dedication and teamwork but it IS POSSIBLE! You did not get into a financial mess overnight and you will not get out of it overnight. It will take time, but you will feel the rewards of at least knowing that you have a plan immediately.
Your money issues will multiply if you divorce. You do NOT want consumer credit counseling or bankruptcy. I'm betting if the financial issues are being dealt with, you will begin to see your husband in a new light again....and if not, at least you can consider divorce without the baggage of financial debt. Good luck to your family. God Bless!

First, I would like to say that you are not alone in this matter, for many couples are experiencing financial problems especially with this economy. I don't know if you are a religious person, but I do recommend attending church as much as possible. Life doesn't make any sense without GOD. I also believe that it is best to "stay married". You stated that your husband is a good person, so I assume that he does not have any problems, such as alcohol, drugs, etc. If he did then he would need to receive counseling. If not, I say consider speaking to a debt consolidator company. They would look at all of your bills, income, and even handle all of the necessary phone calls. They can come up with a financial solution. The worst that could happen financially is "foreclosure" (I hope not) but, it is happening all over the United States. It would not be the end of the world (although at the time it seems it) for eventually after renting, you could save, and start over again. There is always hope. Hope is what keeps us alive, living, looking to the future. I hope I helped, at least a little. I won't be any better divorced. I've been there. It is no fun to be alone. You and your husband have two children, enjoy them. God Bless. Call on him, in times of trouble, he will deliver, and you will glorify him. Nothing is impossible with God. Good Luck!

Dear J.,
Let me preface my response by saying that I did not wade through the other responses, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm being repetitious in any way. I suppose the first question you'll need to answer for yourself is what do you want? Do you WANT to work on your marriage, or do you WANT to throw in the towel? If you WANT to work on your marriage, I would HIGHLY recommend renting the movie fireproof. First, watch it yourself, and then consider watching it with your husband. My hubby & I watched this over the weekend, and while our marriage isn't in trouble, like any couple, we have our ups & downs. This movie is AWESOME, and it really helps to put things into perspective.

Hi J.,

Things sound very frustrating and upsetting there right now. First what I would do if I were in your situation would be to write things down. What I mean is write down the issues that are happening right now. By visualizing them , your are able to calm down and see what things need your attention immediatly and what things can stand by and be dealt with at a later time. One question I had was "Did your husband spend the money you set aside for your children on bills or himself" ? I ask this because I wanted to see if your husband was spending money on things that he shouldn't be right now or is he using it to make ends meet with what needs to be purchased right now. (Both you and your husband)...Write down the bills that you have and try to figure a way to manage them better.
Honestly, It is really hard for me to say go get a divorce right now because things right now are not right. Ask yourself if finances were good, would you still feel that you want a divorce from your husband? You said he is a good father, is he a good husband? (outside of the current financial status)
To me...I think if you were to separate from your husband right now..it will only cause yet another problem that you will be dealing with . your children are allready feeling the strain of the financial issues going on, will it be best to have another thing to deal with. I know that it seems easier to get away from your husband b/c he is not facing the reality of the situation but I think that it may cause you more problems to leave rather thatn to stay and deal with things. Again, I guess it comes down to the acual problem...Is your husband is the one causing the financial problems (meaning is he spending money on things that he shouldn't be) or is he spending whatever money there is on trying to get things paid? If he IS the problem then that is a concern but if he is spending the money on getting things paid then...I can't seem to blame him. To me, at this time, it doesn't seem right to try to be saving right now, it is time to get things paid and get ahead of the bills so that you can start saving money together for your kids...without having to hide it.
yo need to be on the same page and your husband needs a reality check that it is serious and very stressfull. i doubt that he is not stressed about it to...but he is probably dealing with it by holding it all in.
Bottom line is..I think that you need to sit down together (make him) and look at all your bills, you can really account for ALOT of money in things that are necessary at this time..like cable, and cell phones, these two alone will cut a few hundred dollars a month.
I truly wish you happiness and a relieve from these stresses..in time that will come! I know that this is a very stressfull situation, my parents were in the exact same situation and my father always swept things under the rug and pretended that everything was fine..that is until we had to search under the couches for change to buy dinner. They did eventaully divorce and I know that they BOTH regretted it.

If you are in Allegheny County, you can call the Resolve Crisis Network. Their phone number is 1888 7YOUCAN ###-###-####) and their website is http://www.upmc.com/Services/resolvecrisisnetwork/Pages/d.... They will help you get hooked up to the people you need to help you.

I can't advise you-- I obviously agree with many others that breaking up a family is a terrible thing to do, but the kind of behavior your husband is doing (stealing money from you and the children, being unwilling to see to your basic needs) is abusive, and it needs to stop immediately. If he can't recognize that and get help, then for the sake of the children, I think you will have a very hard choice to make. He is disrespecting your feelings, and your family's future because of his problems. I am not putting this all on him-- I think you need help too, and pronto. You both need to accept responsibility for the actions that got you to today, and move on. I hope you can do it together, but you aren't going to be able to do it alone. Dave Ramsey is a great resource, lawyers and accountants and family therapists are too. Please, for everyone's sake, reach out to them. And best of luck to you...

Hey, how will the divorce help to pay debts? J., try to figure out first what you are going to do after the divorce, where you are going to work, may be even start working first and only after that take action and get divorced (if you still want to do so). The time after divorce is NOT easy, if you wanna do it, the decision must be thoughtful, you need to think through all the consequences that may arise after the divorce.

Hi J.,
It's hard to think clearly when you are in the midst of so much tension and stress. It sounds like things are pretty tough right now. I have been married a long time and have been through the ups and downs of marriage and my advice is to stay but not to endure. It sounds like you two could use help in getting back on your feet financially - there are resources where they will help you figure out a way to get your debts in order and paid. I would also recommend counseling to help you two work through the issues. Being in love feelings can come and go but working through the issues and sticking by one another goes a long way in developing that long lasting love. However, he needs to really hear how you are feeling and what you need from him. You may also need to hear from him. We all have such different ways of communicating (or not). Churches provides counseling, centers have a sliding scale- if you have insurance - it might cover some of it. You can also contact marriage and family therapy schools which are sometimes looking for clients. Don't give up - it sounds like you do love him and that he is a good dad but that he is not being a responsible partner in the relationship. I would at least give the 10 years and two children in a chance. After giving it a good effort, you can then decide what is best. I don't think it means suffering through but you and your husband working through it and hopefully growing stronger from it!

Best of luck to you!

I understand. Men's minds work different from women's, unfortunately. Many times, men do think we're more like mother's than wives, without even realizing it. And don't tell them that cuz they'll deny it completely. It really sounds like you're at your last straw. Divorce may be the route to take, although it'll be the toughest challenge you'll make for you and your children. Sometimes the best choice is the hardest choice. Before you call a lawyer, you first need to contact all of your creditors. You'll hate it every step of the way but you need to know exactly where you stand financially. I assume you are both responsible for the bills if you were to split so to protect yourself you'll need to work out payment plans and tell them from now on to only contact you by email or snail mail. If your phone has a block on it, block the numbers if they still continue to call. For any bills that have just your husband's name on them where they insist that they can only talk to your husband, then give them his cell phone number and work number. He needs to be forced to deal with these people. If you offer to pay them $10 a month and they refuse then let them know that your bill must be paid in full since they're refusing your payment! They never like hearing that and usually try to compromise.

Open a separate banking account in just your name. Try to get everything put into that account where he cannot touch it. Pay all the bills, buy groceries and give him an allowance. He will hate this but what else can you do. If you're not strong enough to fight him on this you'll be stuck on the money issue.

Seek financial guidance from a counselor, and also seek a marriage counselor. You must seek every avenue out there before seeking divorce so you will have a clear conscience if it does go down that road. You lay out the rules and what needs to be done and let him know that if he doesn't agree that you'll be talking to a lawyer about a divorce, period.

He may be so overwhelmed himself that he's just ignoring it all and burying his head in the sand. He needs a giant wake up call! He may lose his family!

I know there have been many days where I felt that I'd be happier living with my kids under a bridge in a refrigerator box than going on with the BS my husband was dishing out. He still cannot handle the bills and has no clue of what's going on. I have a ledger book that has all the bill info in the front including account numbers, due dates, how and when to pay on line or on the phone, everything. This is so if something were to happen to me anyone could come in and see our bills and be able to take them over. In the rest of the ledger I write down hubby's pay and then list each bill for that pay day and right in the amount paid and the date it was paid and the confirmation number. Anyone can easily follow this. If a dollar amount and date isn't filled in, that means it wasn't paid. I fill out all the bills due a couple months ahead so all I have to do is fill in the dollar amount as it's paid.

I tried having hubby take over paying the bills more than once, and even taking turn every other month. It was a total disaster! I had to take the bull by the horns and play the big witch and toss my weight around and let him know that I will be paying the bills from now on and he will not be and the reasons why. I make sure he doesn't take money out unless I know about it. I track everything at the bank account. He usually does fine with it but every now and then he will still to pull out $20 dollars here and $40 here and nickel and dime me to death! So I'll threaten to pull his name off MY bank account again if he doesn't watch the spending. He's very lucky to have a wife who buys NOTHING for herself and wears rags and only buys things for the children or home. We always agree on large spending amounts too. Neither of us will go out and buy a new TV without discussing it with the other.

Once you accept hubby's limitations it works easier, but it still stinks that you have to feel like mommy in the process. This is when you then have him start taking control in other areas. I have mine give the triplets their bath every night! LOL I give him his honey-do list and expect it to be done. He hated it when I wrote down the list of things that we both do for our family. On his side, at this point in our marriage, he had "work". On my side I listed "laundry, dishes, cooking, vacuuming, sweeping, bathing the kids, helping with homework, walking our son back and forth to school, buying groceries... " Even our older boys at that time had more on their lists than he did! LOL Must be nice to just come home and plop on the couch and have your dinner made and clothes cleaned. Well, he does his own laundry now! He does allot more around here too, but it does take time.

Start with getting financial counseling and getting the bills under control and if he expects you to play to the lead role and be his mommy, so be it! Do it and do it well!

Good luck!

K. B
mom to 5 including triplets

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarrisburgPAChat
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J.,
I think that if you find a therapist you might find some relief. Call a local place that helps women. In Bucks County we have A Woman Place that focuses on helping women. My parents stayed together "for the kids" my mother lived too much of her life in a miserable marriage. A happy momma is a better momma! You need to be happy for YOU and your children!
Good Luck,
C.

I have to repeat the suggestions for you and your husband to read Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. I also want to suggest that you and your husband read The 5 Love Languages. It's hard to maintain that "loving" feeling but if you love him and he you and neither of you really wants to divorce (that is how it sounded to me) then you need to figure out how to reconnect with one another. Knowing what the other needs to feel loved is valuable - sometimes we just don't understand how easy it is to make our spouse feel loved and valuable. It's particularly difficult to feel loving when you have an issue SO worrisome as debt hanging over you. The 5 Languages of Apology is also an insightful book if you are dealing with arguments etc. I have seen the information in these books really help couples. Try to leave your worries aside (okay that's a hard one)and see if you can pull your marriage back from the brink. Perhaps saving your marriage is too difficult but surely it's worth a bit of work and exploration. Have hope and perserverence and make the right choice for your family.

Your situation sounds very familiar to me!!it is very hard to be happy when under such stressful conditions!what worked a bit for me is realizing i am not going to complain and not do anything.i started to babysit and pet sit to at least give me grocery and spending mony!this is no easy task bc i have 4 kids in and out all day..if you can find a way to release some tension you may feel a little more love!!!

Marriage counseling may be the next step if you can get him to agree to it. It seems as though the real problem is a breakdown in communication. I'm sure he knows that there's a problem but may not know where to start to make things better. Sometimes when men get overwhelmed, they just shut down and expect everyone else to take care of things. Which is exactly what he's doing - because he knows you won't let anything happen to the family. Good luck to you!

Such a hard decision!!! I am going through a somewhat similar situation. For many, many years I've been trying to decide whether to leave or stay with my husband. It really is hard. When my kids were young, and I only worked part-time, I also had no money so I was too afraid to leave. Now my kids are in high school, and I work and have some money for myself. Finally, I think I am ready. Ask yourself this question, if my husband did change, (for you it would be him working on your financial problems) would I want to stay? For me, even if my husband changed, I just don't want to be with him. If you do still love your husband, maybe counseling can help. It is worth trying. But when there's nothing left to try, and you don't want to be with the man anymore, then leave. I know it's not easy, soon I hope to have the courage myself. Good luck! Be brave and strong for your kids and yourself.

J.,

Before you leave you husband, make sure you can get help somewhere - even a woman's shelter. They are very crowded from what I have heard. You can't leave without a job to have some income. If you husband doesn't want to take responsibility, staying is not for the best. Good luck.

J., it sounds like you are so far in debt that you can't see the way out and stress like that can cause anybody to feel resentment or anger towards a loved one who may have helped or at least not stopped the situation from getting as bad as it is. There are not-for-profit companies out there (I'm thinkin of one in the area specifically)designed to help families like yours plan financially to get out of debt and meet some of their financial goals in the future. If you are interested reply to my post and I can give you a contact to whom you can just talk about free services available. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Does he just not pay bills and spends money elsewhere or is it the economy. It's rough out there and with 2 of you it's definately better than being on your own. Can you start having him give you the money and you paying down the debt or maybe you can get a job at night or weekends when hes home with the kids? i always say mortgage first then car, car ins then electric. cable and phone are luxuries. yiou also need food weekly. maybe your job can buy the groceries and gas.