I've Created a Monster!

Wow.

Okay, when she wanted to walk home from the taco place I cut her some slack, and when she leaves messes I could just sigh...but, unlocking a door with a hair clip??!! That's scary stuff! Help me to see how that's not the work of a child who possibly needs serious help....

Unlocking locked doors is NEVER okay. Knock, call out for Mommy - all of that is understandable. But unlocking with a hair clip?!

I probably need to take a deep breath and think about this post again. But my first reaction is to say that you've got a child who has a serious behavior problem here. And I am truly sorry to say that.

My kids would be grounded from all electronics and possibly more. My room is my private space, and they have no reason to just come in, or even open the door without knocking. IF the door is locked it is because I either need a few minutes alone or I may be doing something I don't want a child to see (I do have sex on occasion). Picking the lock on my room crosses so many lines, it goes well beyond an inability to understand the word no. The punishment would be enough for me to make it 100% clear that this WILL never happen again. and then I would get a better lock for my door.

Yes, that is clever!
She would get to sit in her room and think about all the other clever stuff she gets to do when she gets out.
L.

At least you realize it (about creating a monster) - some parents never do.

Try a different tactic.
First - seriously - shorten your limit.
Not even 3 strikes and you're out - make it 2.
She nags because you allow her to.
Nip that in the bud right now.

Every time she asks and you said don't ask me anymore - take something away - a toy, a book, a game, tv time, an outing, etc - what ever her currency is - use it.
If she persists nagging you about the same thing 5 times, take 5 things away from her.
The more she pesters, the more she loses.

You would not like my Mom's method at all.
When pushed to her limit, she'd say 'Not another single word or you'll get a spanking' - and she'd follow through.
There's nothing quite like a stinging behind to make you think first before opening your mouth.
I never had to resort to it myself.

Ok, I get why you went to your room but why didn't you send her to HER room?
As queen of your castle, you should never be in retreat from your kids.
You are in charge here - not your daughter.
Establish your dominance.
Unlocking my door when I wanted some alone time would not be clever or even a smart thing to do - there would be hell to pay.
Stop admiring that behavior.
She might be very smart and clever but she's got to apply it somewhere else and not in challenging you.

Wow. I haven't gone back to look through other posts or comments, but does your daughter always disrespect your authority and boundaries like this? I would have a big problem with it. I don't find it funny at all.

All kids pester. Really. They do. But, as a parent, you have to have a way to let them know they have gone too far and reached the limit of what is acceptable. What do you typically do when she reaches that limit with you? If it was closing the door, she isn't recognizing that as a limit, obviously. Is there a tone or a phrase that is the "LAST" word on the subject?
Surely there is SOMETHING that you use to signal that she is about to go somewhere she shouldn't, right?
And then she picked your bedroom door lock?! What do you normally do to discipline her for disrespectful behavior? That's what the consequence is. She was being utterly disrespectful of you and your space. Treat it that way.

---

Ok. I went back and read your post from about a month ago when she essentially refused to leave someplace with you and also decided she didn't have to leave with you from a taco place, that she could walk home on her own.
I'm pretty sure that her lack of boundaries is coming from you. You have actually molded her into thinking that she really doesn't have any. So of course this is what you get. There is free range, and there is free range. I'm all for letting kids play outside (within reason) on their own without a parent standing over their every move and mapping out every aspect of their play time and "down time" and letting them use their imaginations. But really, your response to her refusing to leave a place of business with you was that "the law says you can't leave her there"?
Good grief. No wonder.

My kids have known how to unlock the doors with bobby pins, small screwdrivers, what ever they find in the sofa since they were two. That isn't clever at her age, that is disobedience, lack of boundaries, lack of respect.

My kids aren't perfect but they know you do not pick locks. You knock.

She does not take your no seriously because there is no need to. Nothing bad happens if she continues and sometimes you give in. Where is the upside for her to respect you? A book? Unless you are going to swat her with it why should she care you have a book?

Consequence? Lord, start by gaining her respect. No means no. If she can't accept no then no will be the only answer she gets to anything. Once she respects no you can reintroduce yes.

My SD did it when she was 6. Since I was her stepmom (and had to care for her by myself sometimes) I wasn't allowed to do much in the way of punishment. I do know that when my SD would pester her mom, eventually her mom would give in just to shut her up so there was the payoff.

It got to be where she was rude to others as well. If someone offered to get her something, she'd always ask for two, then when told no, she would pout. At a friend's house she was offered water, and then she said "No, I want juice." When the mom said "well, we're drinking water now" my SD replied "I KNOW you have juice, I SAW IT in your fridge!" I was mortified and had to immediately pull her into the next room--where she sulked because she could not have juice (and then we left the playdate).

When left unhandled, this can escalate into being rude to others. She went for a few years with barely any playdates because no one wanted her over because she was so demanding and annoying.

She can also be spirited, fun and energetic!

How we handled it at OUR house (and at her mom's house she continued to pester and still does to this day now that she's 12 but does NOT at our house) is we told her that no means no, and if we have to say it again, no means never.

If we offered to buy her a small toy at the fair to be nice, if she asked for two she would not receive anything.

If she asked to watch TV and we said "no" and she asked again, then there would be no TV for 2 days (it was 2 days when she was younger, and 2 days is an ETERNITY for them!)

If she asked for dessert, and we said "no" and she asked again, then it would be no dessert for 2 days.

It took a few weeks of us enforcing this, and then it stuck. It took longer, I think, because she'd go back to her mom's where pestering got her whatever she wanted.

She no longer pesters. Sometimes if we say "no" then she might ask "well, when is a good time?" and that's a fine question to ask and is not pestering.

You and your husband need to pick a discipline for asking more than once and stick to it. If you don't she's going to pester other people in her life just like she does for you--and that's going to be a recipe for disaster!

Mom, you do realize you are, in essence, running away and hiding from your little girl because YOU can't tell HER no?
She is the one who needs to go to her room to calm down, NOT you.
I understand removing yourself from a situation when you are getting angry (which is often a good idea) but this child has no respect for you as an authority figure, and that is both scary and sad.
Being persistent or stubborn is not the same as being disrespectful, not at all.
Just because dad allows it (my husband is more of a pushover too) does not mean you need to allow it as well.
She doesn't "like" to hear no? Too bad. You're in charge, not her.

Remember who the adult is here. Try the book How to Talk so Kids Will Listen. She got you to retreat to your room and then you think her picking your lock is clever. She picks up on that. I have a strong willed clever child. You and dad need to work together on this. No means no today tomorrow and always. Clear consequences for failure to follow instructions and follow through. Never make an idle threat.

You have created a monster that everyone else in her life will have to deal with unless you defang it.

I'm in agreement with B.

My "no" is the final word. If arguing or pestering happens after that, I'm not going to go hide in my room, I'm going to send my child to their room until *I* say they may come out. Continued pestering after I've said no is disrespectful. She'd be in her room all day if it continued.

Picking my lock to pester me about something I've already said my child cannot do/have? That would earn a spanking. That is disrespectful on so many levels and is unacceptable behavior. Why didn't you open the door and tell her to go to her room when you heard her fiddling with the lock?

Re: Your SWH.

So, what you're saying, in so many words, is that you're inconsistent. Well, her behavior makes sense then.

If it were me, I would remove her bedroom door. You went into your room and locked the door because you wanted/needed privacy. She took that privacy from you. I would now take her privacy away.

I'm sorry, but I totally laughed about her picking the lock!

Your daughter and mine could be interchangeable. My husband and yours, also interchangeable.

I tell my daughter. The answer is no, if you ask me again, then you can go and sit in your room. If she asks again, then she sits in her room.

Going to have to be firm with your husband too. Tell him next time he gives in, they'll both be going to their rooms. *and if you get five minutes of quiet time, then yay for you. :)

A hair clip to pick the lock? Oh boy, she would have had my wrath of disappointment and a VERY long day of doing chores.

I cannot abide that type of behavior. My daughter knew there was never going to be a day that would fly.

If your daughter crosses the line, you will need to remind her, you will not EVER accept that type of behavior. She can use her words politely to explain her feelings, but what you decide is the final answer is the end of the discussion. The way for her to understand this is to just tell her, "No more discussion." If she tries, tell her, "No more. I mean it"

If she follows you, send her to a boring spot and tell her to stay there quietly with no noise until you come back and deal with her. If she moves, start all over.

Taking her electronics is a start.

In the future if she will not accept No. Her first "No", warn her, "if you ask again, you will not be doing anything but chores the rest of the day.." and make it happen.

Dusting floor boards and window sills. , cleaning the bathroom, picking up a every leaf in the yard. Folding every item in her dresser. Going through her toys and getting rid of toys and books that she has not played with all summer.

If my DD keyed into my room, she'd be marched out again and lose something. That is your private space and your private time. That's not amusing in the least.

I would also be discussing with DH about how your child's behavior is getting out of control and how you and he need to back each other up. So no means no not "bug Dad til he gives in when Mom said no". If he thinks this is cute now, watch out at 10 or 15!

My DD is also smart and somewhat sassy, and while I love how her brain works, I also know she is smart enough to know limits. So you need to remind her that she is not in charge, if she wants things this is how to get them and no really truly does mean "no" and stop pestering me.

And come up with something that she will understand for doing something as brazen as breaking into your room. Like taking something of hers that she will miss.

ETA: I think Cheerful M. has some great ideas. Just the other night DD wanted someone's toy at the pool. I told her that she could ask, but if the boy did not want to share, she had to let it go or she would be rude and I would make her leave the pool. And she would lose a playmate. The boy wanted to play, but did not want to give up his shark. Sometimes kids do not get what they want, even if they ask 10 times.

Was my child visiting you this morning? No wait, mine is 6! Not funny to you but it will be when you have calmed down.

Consequence...depends on your daughter. What's her "currency"? is it electronics? tv? outdoor play? dessert?

All kids will try this.

You may need to enforce more firmly for a bit than setting her free to be ignored in her room. That won't make her stop as she gets older (unless it does, then great). Once you enforce discipline for ignoring what you say enough times, she'll stop pushing it. If you don't clamp down at this age hoooooweee it's gonna get way worse at ages 6, 7 and beyond. You say she almost never does it now, so maybe it's not even an issue, but if it gets more common, The book "Back to Basics Discipline" has great, positive, clear ways to prevent escalation of defiance and keep things respectful and efficient. Perfect for when you just can't think of what to do like you mentioned. Very simple for in the moment.

I have 3 kids who ALL would have gladly ignored "no" if it was an option and 2 who would have put me in the loony bin with their strong wills. But no. You CAN be in charge without a struggle beyond "final warning" with a 5 year old, you just need to enforce after you say something ONCE until she gets it that she isn't allowed to continue the battle. Now if I have to I'll use the occasional "What did I SAY?" And they'll know the jig is up.

Your daughter is totally normal as you know, and you know you aren't always tired and out of sorts...of course, it's that way for all of us. All nice kids will do this, and it will get worse if not handled.

When you got up and walked away to avoid exploding, she won. She had continued to pester you, and you did nothing. When she picked the lock, she was letting you know she has NO concerns about defying you. You'll have to toughen up a bit for her to stop pushing the limits like this if it continues. You don't have to get mad, but you do need to enforce your word firmly with action.

My kids sometimes try to do a little begging. Sometimes I'm too zoned out to catch it right away, so I'll auto-command a zombie-like "no, stop asking" after a coupe of repeats. Finally they'll keep asking, having realized I wasn't really serious, and I'll snap out of it and say with full focus, "I have answered you, stop asking, last warning." And they won't push it past that. But that's because I was consistent all through toddler years with enforcement when necessary.

Oh my! A locksmith in the making!

I think I'd try "What part of no don't you understand?" or "Tell me what I said."

You need to get your husband on the same page with you or you're just going to continue to have this problem.

If you don't want her coming in your room, put a chair under the doorknob, LOL!!

well, good for you for stopping yourself from yelling! but the wrong person got sent to her room.
when training horses, i subscribe to the philosophy that when a pony does something absolutely unacceptable (pinning ears menacingly at me or making 'i could kick you if i wanted to' motions, for exactly 60 seconds that horse will be in fear of its life. once the 60 seconds are up, i'm relaxed and groovy again, and the horse learns that there is no quarter granted for Really Bad Behavior, and also no grudges are held. (and if i miss the immediate window of opportunity to discipline that severely, my bad. no retroactive punishment for creatures who don't understand it. but that's another topic.)
5 is old enough to understand far better than this young lady is acting. smacking and yelling are sometimes effective, and i've used them. but they are not good parenting. what worked best for me was to develop an icy demeanor and a Scary Momface. the boys soon learned that their lives would not be happy ones in the immediate future if they brought on the Scary Momface. the consequences varied according the infraction (in this case it would be removal of all privileges for 24 hours and at least a half hour banishment from my presence, and possibly some penitent cleaning chores.)
if your no hasn't carried weight up to this point, it's time to change that dynamic permanently and decisively. the first thing to do is to re-eddicate your husband. emphatically.
good luck, mama!
khairete
S.

Cheerful M, all the way.

The only way to insure you don't get what you want is to whine or ask me again after I had said, No. Then you have walked in to danger zone. All things are possibly mine, when you are in the danger zone. Nobody was coming through a locked door to find me!

Deadbolt lock - LOL But seriously, she needs to know that a closed door means privacy is needed, and to only knock on it in an emergency, and spell out what that is. She does not get whatever she was pestering you about, and she gets to pay for a portion if not all of the new lock out of her allowance.

I hate to admit that I did this but I looked at your past posts. You have 3 kids under 6 and homeschool - of course you are going to lose it! You must be exhausted! One good thing about traditional school is that the parent gets a break (a very little one because you have 2 not yet old enough for school - but there's preschool!) and the child gets other adults to reinforce good behavior. I have been a SAHM and I jumped for joy when my kids started preschool, kindergarten and (the biggie) first grade. I'd love to homeschool, in theory, but in reality my kids enjoy being on their own and I cherish the time to not have to worry about them. Please rethink home schooling with three young kids. You are clearly exhausted and need a break. You can always revisit the home schooling when the kids are more independent. I feel for you. Good-luck.

Have a consequence for pestering, and stick to it. My girls used to be major pesterers (is that even a word?) and I sat them down and we discussed that once Mom has said no, it's always going to be no, and if they keep asking they would lose a chapter at bedtime.

The first week, they lost a lot of chapters. But they learned quickly. To me, pestering or repeating questions is the same bad behavior as anything else not allowed in our house.

You need a timeout so you can consider how better to set boundaries without losing your cool.

Sounds like a very, very clever child. I don't know why you would give her a consequence for doing what kids do - try to get their way.

My husband has always been a soft touch with the kids - giving in and getting them things, doing fun things with them that I don't get a chance to do (they'd run errands with me, do laundry, and my husband takes them go-carting, or to the toy store). So my kids have eventually learned to bug daddy until they get what they want - but they've pretty much given up on me.

You need to learn how to tune her out when she gets this way. Ignoring unwanted behavior is one of the best ways to stop it. Any attention, good or bad, reinforces behavior.

But I have to say I love the fact that this child used a hairclip to unlock the door. Get her into sales right away - she will be a rich woman one day!

Your daughter sounds intelligent. Intelligent children are dangerous. :-) She has noticed that you're "off" today, and is testing to see if you'll stand by the limits you've set.

I think the first thing to do is to remind her that mommy's door being closed means that mommy needs a time out. (My kids find this funny. They don't realize how many times when they were younger mommy taking a time out saved their little skins.)

I, too, am the mother of a persistent daughter. I've instituted a rule at my house that you might find helpful. If a question is asked more than once, even if I had been inclined to give the desired answer, the answer automatically turns to "no." This has occasionally resulted in fireworks, but mostly, it does exactly what I intended for it to do. "Can I do....?" "After you finish your homework." (5 minutes later) "Can I do...?" "No." "Uh-oh. I was nagging, wasn't I?"

If the initial answer was "no" and she nags, it's off to her room for a little reflection time, no toys or books. (This only works with my daughter, BTW, because she hates being separated from the herd. I don't use it with my son, for whom an afternoon by himself would be paradise. In the same situation, he loses access to his stuff. Choose something that she will consider a loss of privilege.)

I don't know if this will work for you, but it has worked quite well for us. Another thing that would be helpful would be to have a chat with your husband about getting on the same page. No matter how polite your child's words are, hectoring the parents is rude behavior. Sometimes the parent who spends less time around the child misses things. It's not that they don't care - they simply do not notice patterns.

My son is like that. When he gets in this mood I tell him the answer is no and I am not changing my mind. If you ask again you will get x for a consequence. Then follow through. For my son I offer to take away his video game time. He learned really quickly that I will take away his video games for a day...then 2 days...then 3 days...then 4 days. Now he quickly stops bugging me.

I don't have a good suggestion, J., but that's pretty funny!

Maybe you could just work really hard to ignore her after the first no. She'll give up eventually.

LOL, I am sorry for laughing here... she sounds just like my 18.5 yr old.

I love her persistence and self motivation now much more than I did when she was 5.5. It will get better.

We have learned to laugh about it because she is quite the negotiator if she hears the word no. You should hear some of the things she can come up with that actually make sense to attempt to change our no to a yes.

You are doing the right thing, consistency! Hang in there mom! She'll be 18 and out of the house before you blink your eyes.

Take some Love and Logic classes. You'll learn how to say no in a way she'll accept it.

You say no buy saying yes. "Mommy, can I have a candy bar?" "Yes, you can have a candy bar just as soon as you get your homework done, let's hurry so we can eat that yummy bite size candy bar!!!!!!!!".

Said no, but said yes in a way they still have to do what "I" want.

If the no is in response to something she really can't do like "Mommy, will you teach me to drive the car". Well of course she can't do that so you give her something to do instead that she wants to do. Like you have to ride your bike first, then learn to roller skate, the ride a skateboard, then learn to ski, then you'll be old enough to learn about how to drive a car.

You distract her. You don't have to be the dictator that is obeyed because you said something was this way or that.