Is Pantsing Sexual Haressment?

Yes, too far! My husband pants my sons sometimes but I can see how it would be unacceptable in school. The kids should get off with a warning and the principle needs to make it clear to the student body that there is a no tolerance policy to pantsing or any other attempt to remove clothing from another child. If it happens after the rule is established than it is a different story.

I think the school is taking this too far! I could some other type of punishment but to expell him for this? I would contact the school board and challenge this. Sounds like the other parents will back you up. Good luck!

Sexual harassment is unwanted sexual attention. Not anything that is irritating that is remotely about connected to the act of sex. I mean, sheesh, is it sexual harassment if they stand too close in the bathroom?

Was it inappropriate? Yes. But you already know that. I think that the response by the school is completely idiotic. Those boys weren't doing anything sexual. It wouldn't be sexual harassment if it was a girl either, although I admit it would be more problematic. They just don't know enough about sex to engage in sexual harassment would be my guess.

I am both a teacher and possibly the least litigious person I can think of, and if this happened to my kid I would sue the pants off that school (pun intended!)

Good luck.

IMO this is just another example of an overly litigious country. Puh-leez.

This is why our 'system' is so messed up. March in and demand a meeting at the administration building immediately. This is crazy and needs the brakes put on it immediately. It reminds me of the time a little girl got expelled because her mom packed a plastic knife in her lunch kit to slice whatever she brought. I think she was a second grader. Hello school officials! Common sense is appreciated sometimes!

No, it's considered "horse play". I know someone that got accused of sexual harassment at work, and the lawyer reduced it to horseplay. So, go that route. Good luck.

If this is the first "offense" I think it is extreme. If he continues to do it then there are more issues. At 9 I don't think kids really full understand those types of actions. I could be wrong. If he was corrected and this is an isolated incident of teasing then it should be let go especially since the friend instigated the whole thing.

i would say yes especially since the other child and family are not offended. i would definately talk to the boys and their parents that maybe this kind of game should be left at home.

Unfortunately, for every case like yours that is obviously rediculous, there is a case like my daughters that was totally ignored. I hope you win an appeal, but speak to your son about not doing these things again, because if the shoe were on the other foot, and your child were the victim of a real incident, and no body did anything, you would be even more outraged. Your district is actually on the right track. I just wish there were more places that applied reasonable policies that allow for harmless mistakes while they catch bad actors in the sieve.
M.

As Denise put it, this is a result of the overly litigious society in which we live today. There has to be zero tollerence to eliminate the possibility of a lawsuit later. If they 'let him get away with it this time,' then what's to say another student won't take it a bit farther next time and it be over the line? Where is the line? What if this is done next time to a girl that takes it wrong? The school is just trying to cover their assets (yes, I used that word as a double entendre). Unfortunately since some people will sue over anything, kids are not allowed to be kids anymore. At least not on school property. (This includes after school hours, weekends, in a school zone, etc.)

Sadly, your only options may be to homeschool or go to another district. Unless you want to take this to court yourself. First see if the Superintendent will do anything to resolve your situation.

OMG-Total BS!! Your school is going WAY over the top here. Do not stand for it. Get experts involved if you need to. You may have to call a lawyer. UGh....HATE the world we live in.

Yes, pantsing is sexual harassment. Any behavior that is unwanted and could be considered sexual in nature is harassment. Pantsing does fall under this category. Now, it is only considered harassment if the other party didn't want it to happen or felt uncomfortable. It sounds like the other kid didn't care, which would mean this specific case isn't sexual harassment.

The school may deem this sexual harassment.....but it was all part of a game & now the boys know better. I also think it was bullying.....which is unacceptable.....& IS grounds for expulsion. I think you all are splitting hairs/working the semantics on this event.

As a parent, I feel strongly that "pantsing" is NOT acceptable whether at home or at school. & as a parent, I definitely do not want to hear about it happening in any social venue.

Personally, I'd like to know where they learned how to "pants" each other. Time for some thoughts on what they're learning at home! Peace!

Not sexual harassment, but Bullying yes.
If it was a boy on girl or girl on boy pantrsing, yes, sexual harassment.

Zero tolerance is there for a reason..

NO fighting ever.
NO Bullying ever.

We must continue to teach our children this. Self control is part of it.

If what your son is true. I would hope the boy that dared your son would step up and say he also participated so they could both be dealt with. This type of behavior should not be taking place on school property or school at any time.. If you think this is not a big deal let them play like this at your home.

I do not my want my daughter to be witness to this behavior.

According to your So What Happened, this issue has been 99% resolved. But a couple thoughts came to mind:

There is innocent horseplay at home and that same behavior would not be OK at school. They wanna pants each other in the back yard? Well, boys can be weird but no harm. But they should be told that it is not OK at school.

As others have said, to be harassment, the behavior has to be unwanted. The victim has to declare that it was unwanted. But as I have understood the legal definition, the victim also has to have proof that the harassment has damaged them -- That it has prevented them from conducting life and work as they normally would.

The funny thing about harassment is that it extends beyond the victim. Meaning, though neither boys claims to have been harassed ANY OTHER PERSON on the playground that saw the pantsing can claim to be a victim of harassment.

There is a certain amount of CYA from a teachers perspective about inappropriate touching/behavior. Say they did not report this and the kid comes back later and cries "bed touch!"?

Finally schools are really under fire re: bullying. They are taking steps to prevent it at the request of parents, the media, and local government. And so that is probably what they were trying to do here -- Nip something in the bud. I guess they are darned if they do darned if they don't.

It is ridiculous! Heck kids were pantsed all the time when I was in middle school -- yes, that was like 18 years ago :( so what. I am glad that the other parents wrote a letter-- I just wish that would hold some weight. Honestly, a person is sexually harassed not by the type of behavior but by how it is perceived (did the other boy FEEL HARASSED?) That should be the question that is asked -- think about it this way at work: you might have a joking fun relationship with gentlemen at work and what they might say to you as a joke would be AOK with you as a woman but another woman who hears it, if directed at her, might view it as improper and sexually harassing. I think it should be more about what the intent was here than the behavior. IMHO. In these days of bullying and kid suicides, schools are just trying to cover their butts! Good luck!

I would say in this case that they are over reacting - the kids were playing it was a game to them and no harm was done. Had the situation been different and he did it to a child who was not playing with him and it was done to humiliate the other child, I would say the circumstance should be handled with more punishment. I think expelling the kid is a bit harsh no matter which circumstance. People do not want kids to be kids any more -

Good Grief, is a wedgy sexual harrassment? I'm pretty sure it falls into the same category as pantsing.... if anything it is horsing around like Grandma T said or nowadays would be considered "bullying".
So much for the Land of the Free.... we arent allowed to do anything anymore without getting in trouble, lectured, sued or labled.
It's so ridiculous.

Oh my! This is very scary! Boys just are not alowed to be boys these days! The one boy even asked for it to be done!!! The school is going way to far with this!!! Good luck and keep fighting!!!

Updated

Oh my! This is very scary! Boys just are not alowed to be boys these days! The one boy even asked for it to be done!!! The school is going way to far with this!!! Good luck and keep fighting!!!

A boy at this age asking another to "pants" him is odd. Both my kids would be mortified if this happened to them and would never ask another boy to do that. And they are physical kids with all the other boy type horseplay but that for either of them would cross the line. It's plain not funny and humiliating.

At a birthday once my nephew has this happen by his other brother (he was 8) and was in tears. Granted, he didn't ask his brother to do that but really what boy would? The kid who challenged your son needs to understand that behaviour is not appropriate and you son should have known better to comply. That's the message the school should impart- suspension or expulsion is strong but asking them to do volunteer work after school would not be out of line and get the message across.

well I will say, I am so frustrated this just happed to my son! He is 11 years old in 5th grade. He was suspended for 2 days and written up for sexual harassment too!!!! I am so upset and so was he! He did this to his best friend on the field, after his friend had just knocked him down. They were both laughing and my son got up and ran after him and tugged on his pants, only a little and they both laughed. His friend then tried to do it to him. My son only got in trouble! I am fighting to have this taken off his record! Meeting today will see! I do not find this to be sexual!
Unfortunately my son had to feel bad about himself when he was just being a boy. Innocent FUN! He said mom, "what dose that mean about me"? ........ poor guy. Sorry your son went threw this.

that is ridiclous, especially being that he didn't do it to the opposite sex and they are friends. the school district is afraid of being sued!! that is the only reason they are trying to expel him. I would call 7 on your side!!! good luck.

I'm sure it could be considered sexual harassment, but in this instance it doesn't sound like it was. Personally, I would have simply talked to each boy and explained that it is an activity best not done because of just such possible allegations and left it at that. I'm presuming this took place on school grounds. If so, I'd sit my boy down and have a good talk with him explaining these facts of life... that some things that might be ok in other venues might get him into big trouble if done on school property, simply because of all the political correctness and fear that is prevalent today.
I would definitely fight the expulsion... and probably if they continue to press the issue, I'd want to take my child out of that school and find a place where the administration uses a bit more common sense in dealing with such issues.

Ya know...this is just going way too far! School officials these days are SOOO quick to yank a student out of class for fear of retaliation from other parents. Rather than letting things go as typical childhood behavior, they go so far as having girls arrested for having Midol or Tylenol (aka "drugs on campus") or expelling a student b/c he brought scissors to school that were 'not regulation'...Come ON this is soooo rediculous...When did Midol or Tylenol become 'illicit drugs' as described in the school's handbook? It's okay to bring 'school scissors' to school but not his mom's?? Saying your son was 'sexually harrassing' another student b/c the other kid dared him & really just were 'playing' or fooling around, this is rediculous...There are SO many better reasons to reprimand a student on like bullying, starting fights in class, not behaving, writing on the walls in the bathroom or on the desks. Things these days are blown SO out of porportion that I think it's truly better to homeschool. While I know my reply was lengthy & included things that didn't necessarily pertain to your issue, I just had to agree w/you & vent a little on things that have been SO over dramatized since the days when we went to school. It's really rediculous how things are these days. So YES this is definitly being taken too far & WAY out of porportion. The school officials should be reminded, they were once children too & I'm sure they behaved much the same way as children. Good luck!

yeah it is taking it to far but if your kid gives another a cough drop it is dealing drugs. just the new day and age. it is just boys being boys.

While I applaud them for their standards, I feel 9 YO's are still innocent and need to be taught. Does the school offer a sexual harassment video/segment, much like an employer would? I found the sexual harassment segment of our new hire meeting quite interesting, so I learned something. I think "sexual harassment" is a bit harsh, yet as well, think keeping your hands to your self is a good policy.

I suggest you take it to the district and if nothing else, you may teach them that they need to educate their pupils much like they probably did their teachers and staff. Set the standard! They may not listen to you, but if you make some noise, trust me, they will hear you!

Sexual harrassment has to be (A) unwanted & (B) the person who is doing said harrassing must be first told it is unwanted.

In this case it can't be sexual harrassment because the boy asked your son to do it.

If I were you I would set up a meeting and have some serious questions for the school. This seems crazy!

They way you describe no it was innocent while one mom says pantsing is not bullying if it was purposely done daily in a humiliating manor then yes I would consider bullying or some other type of harassment. Sexual harassment is unwanted behavior, touching, etc which is not the case here but I remember not too long ago a little girl that was expelled for hugging another child in preschool! The world is a crazy place and lots of parents get mad about every little thing. If the other parents have no problem with it and it was after school I don't see why the school would be putting their noses into this unless it was an after school activity they were at. I think I would fight it.

i've been pants'd and i have done some pantsing... it is part of being a kid and has nothing to do with sexual harassment. i also don't feel it had anything to do with bullying like some other moms said. i was a kid. i got pantsed, it was funny, yes, humiliating, but funny and i learned to laugh at myself! geeze, lighten up folks. if the school won't back off the expulsion, you don't want your kid going to school there anyhow. i mean, he may push someone in tag and get a bodily injury lawsuit! good luck!

I think every insident should be looked at carefully. Your 9 year old son should have been explained many years ago to keep his hands to himself and that his private parts are what his bathing suite covers him and his friends. but i will give you the benifit of the doubt that his friend supposibly did tell him to go ahead and do this embarrising act to him. voluntarly. this is a good oportunity for the school to make it a rule to not only remind kids about the rules but to add it to the rule list that the parents have to sign at the bigining of the school year. regardless weather your child was given the ok by the other child; someone else could have seen this and took it as offinsive and that is to me enough for expelling both of them. but like I said it you never signed anything then you may have a fighting chance. when my son was young; he knew better to play games that could get him explelled even if he was given the ok. because we read the school rules togeather and signed the list that we understood togeather. that is the bottom line.

It is so frustrating when things like this happen. Where both boys involved, and both parents involved are not concerned...but the school is stepping in on something that was just a prank (and IMO just normal kid behavior). I mean, its not like your son pulled down this kids pants and underwear and exposed him!

On the flip side we have kids being bullied every single day, and parents are calling the school for action...and that is not dealt with.

To answer your question, YES the school is taking things too far. RIDICULOUS! I would be up in the school office in a nano second, and if they don't do anything about it my next stop would be the superintendent office.

Can it be considered harassment or bullying if the other child/family aren't feeling violated?

Really sounds like the school is trying to make an example of your son. I think it's a mistake on the school's part.

I would go above the principal and take it to the district superintendent.

Oh, brother.... if you ask me, the SCHOOL is inserting the sexual & harassment part into this.

It wasn't sexual (inappropriate sure, but sexual no.) it wasn't harassment (shouldn't have taken the invitation to but not unwanted & unwarranted harassment) and it wasn't in any way a derogatory or malicious action taken by one "picking on" another "victim" such as a predator would. This was a playful (inappropriate, but playful and relatively innocent) action between friends.

:(

IMO, a day of school suspension should be adequate - expulsion is definitely overboard when it was just once in play with a friend who was also 'playing' this, with a kid who's overall a good kid.
If it were someone going around pantsing others without their consent, who generally caused trouble in other ways, then expulsion would be something to consider, yes.
(I remember kids giving others wedgies - it was awful! But no one was suspended (to my knowledge) over this! )

Good grief, stand up for your son, take it as far as you need to. This is ridiculous, if schools focused their time and energy where it was needed, crazy things like this wouldn't be a huge issue. Schools really need to look at the context of things, the boys were having fun and both sets of parents are okay with. No way would I stand up for my child being expelled for this.

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard of! He's NINE! Sexual harassment when no complaint was made? Who saw it and thought it was harassment? I would call an attorney and the local news media. Make sure you let the administration know that's what you plan to do -tomorrow! You may be surprised how fast this disappears!

Hi L.,
This is just crazy and way overboard. Do you ever listen to Dennis Prager on talk radio? He mentioned a group of 3 boys that had been expelled for deciding to have a 'butt-slapping' day... where they got in trouble for slapping each other's bottoms. Dennis Prager talked about this on his talk show, and then a group of outraged people (I believe through his show) set up an account to pay for lawyers to get the kids back in their school... it worked. I can't believe how far schools are going now. Sometimes kids will be kids.... it is as simple as that.
Good luck!