Is It Normal to Fight About the Kids?

Be careful that you are not being condescending to your husband, especially in front of your daughter. So, you have spent more time around kids than him. So? This is his daughter too, and he gets a say on how she is raised. I agree with him on the point that "she should do it because he told her to." He's absolutely right. Sounds like your husband is more authoritarian than you, and that's not a bad thing. It's just different. You two need to take a parenting class TOGETHER (stop being superior, you're not a better parent, you're just different), decide what page to get on, and both of you get on it together.

Nothing you described seems abnormal for a 6-year-old to me, but it does sound to me like you've taken a superior attitude about child-rearing, and that can only lead to disaster. Men have fragile egos, and his opinion DOES count, even when you don't want it to.

Believe me, I battle this every day. I have to bite my tongue until it bleeds to keep myself from condescending my husband because he doesn't do things exactly the way *I* would do them. But I have to, or I risk compromising his relationship with his daughters, and him resenting me for it.

Sometimes my husband will say things like our kids are the loudest (which is usually true), they cant' be taken anywhere (sometimes true for our 3 year old), they fight more than other kids, etc. I just let it slide because I know it's common for kids their age, for siblings, etc. We don't fight over it though. Even if I don't agree with him on something, I take his side when he says/does something, like if he tells her to stop whining (even though I know she's tired), I'll say "Daddy is right. We do not whine at the table. I understand you are tired. How about a hug? Then let's try to talk it out." So that way I'm staying in tune with him but also showing her the more emotional side of parenting. I think often with dads, they are harder/stricter/less emotional and sometimes (at least with my daughter), a hug is all she needs when she's having a meltdown, arguing, whining, etc. You need to find what works for your daughter to relase her anger, anxiety, etc. Then explain to hubby that is her personality. Also, let it slide off your shoulders. Like you said, you have been around kids more than he has. Maybe point out the good things she's doing (and tell him that reinforcing good behavior is also a great parenting tool) instead of always focusing on the negative. Good luck :)

First: you are both right. Are all of the behaviors you listed relatively developmentally appropriate for the age? Yes. Are they also annoying? Yes.

I think you and your husband need to have a conversation when you are both NOT upset about what your six year old is doing. Is she just starting school right now--or in the first few weeks of going back? The reason I ask is that kids can get pretty whiny and distracted during times of change.

I know this struggle you are experiencing because I too have been around children a LOT more than my husband. This makes for some differing opinions, to say the least. I know what it's like to feel like one's job is to 'grease the wheels' between parent and child.

Here's the thing: if your daughter is 'not always listening', then it's time for you to model for your husband what you want him to do in the situation. I find that, instead of brushing it off (which does neither the child nor spouse any good), I have worked on having my son repeat directions back to me as soon as they are given. Because this works well for him, instead of getting upset with my husband, I've given him a tool/technique for getting through this situation.

When we get into potentially troublesome transitions which we can predict are going to be bumpy, I enlist my husband in a quick strategy session. For example, lately it seems that we've had less-than-cooperative behavior around going out for a snack at the local cafe. This is more about the habit of having the conflict than it is about our son not liking to go there. On Sunday we did some pre-cafe planning about how we would try to finesse this transition, and even with a few unexpected glitches, things worked beautifully and we had a nice time together. What really helped was for us to have had that conversation with each other in private and to get on the same page in advance. This way, I wasn't correcting my husband in front of our son- and thus, he felt respected and part of the process instead of just 'wrong'. This might really help your situation if you find that the conflicts are taking place in front of your daughter.

I'd also take it one step further and assign some natural consequences for less-pleasant behaviors. Whining and dramatic? Sometimes it is really appropriate to send them to their rooms to calm down a bit. Sometimes it's okay to say "You know, you've had five minutes of being upset, and we are sorry that you are upset. Now, it's time to decide how you want to solve the problem/how you are going to make yourself feel better."

If your husband is feeling that she's being selfish, teach him that there are times to ignore it and that there are times to pull the discussion out further. WHY does she want what she wants? Sometimes, kids just want to be heard. I do understand that feeling sometimes of "he/she never learns"... let's face it, when our kids are displaying disagreeable behavior, it's frustrating. I would remind him that she is still learning how to be pleasant company, but don't excuse it away. Keep correcting. You know that discipline, when done well, is about correcting and teaching children the right way, not punishing them. Ask him to keep teaching her through proper guidance, and discuss together what that looks like. Maybe she also needs the house expectations and consequences/options written up in a common area: ("If Sally is feeling upset and is not ready to be friendly, she can choose to .... play in the backyard, go play in her room// If Sally is having trouble following directions, we will ...have her repeat the direction back to the parent first, if she chooses not to follow the direction, she will need to sit quietly in a chair until she is ready to do the task asked of her, etc.) .... this would also reaffirm to your husband that he's 'doing it right' also.

Lastly, your husband might enjoy Bruno Bettelheim's "The Good-Enough Parent." It's a thinky book, but I value the advice as it is more philosophical than a 'do this, don't do that' sort of book. Also to get him hooked into how important he is in your daughter's life: The Fatherstyle Advantage is a good affirmation of the positive role he can play.

I know this is long, but as I said: I'm familiar with this challenge. I do hope some of this helps.

He really, really needs a reality check. You are correct that her behaviors, positive and negative, are normal for any child her age. Perfectly normal. They must be dealt with lovingly and consistently with the right discipline (not harsh--just right) and with also choosing battles and not making everything a cause for a struggle with her.

He is not accepting that you do know more about what's normal for this "age and stage" than he does. It's unfortunate, but it's not the first time I've seen dads think that kids should be fully formed adults by about age six or eight, able to obey instantly, able to listen and do what they're told without question, no drama, no contradictions, etc., while the moms realize the kids are....kids, and should be praised for even small triumphs and appropriately disciplined and redirected for problems.

Since he's not going to listen to you -- I would indeed get him a very good book on stages of child development, as someone noted. Ask your school counselor for book recommendations; many schools have a small "parent library" of books you can check out from the counselor so he or she may even have the right book for him already. But you will have to get him to read it and not just throw it aside because "I know my own kid and don't need some stupid book to tell me what to do," etc.

Before giving him any materials you need to sit down and let him know how YOU feel -- that your feelings toward him, personal and romantic too, are being damaged and distanced by both his approach to your child AND his lack of any respect for your experience with kids. He's basically dismissing your knowledge here. He needs to hear that his wife is feeling pushed aside, unheard and angered, and that it is affecting how you see him and your marriage. In other words -- he needs to be told this is not just about your child but about your marriage as well. If he won't read books, tell him the next step will be for you both to take a parenting class together -- not so that you can have some expert say "Wife is right! Husband is wrong!" to justify yourself, but so you both, together, can get on the same page about what is normal, what to do about things, and what to expect next.

The "what to expect next" is very important because if you are angry and alienated now at how he is handling her at age six, imagine -- and he should imagine too -- how you and he will fail to agree over the many stages still ahead in the tween years and teen years, which are MUCH harder. He needs to see that you both must get it together on your reactions now or you will end up with a damaged marriage by the time your child is a teen. Put it to him that way and see if it shakes him up enough to swallow his "I know best" pride and work with you, not against you. But be careful to frame it all as "We need to be on the same page" rather than "I'm right and you're not." (Even though you are right, mom.)

Well parenting is tough enough, and especially when both parents aren't on the same page. As an outsider, I'd say that is what the problem is. You seem to think it is OK for her to not listen, whine, be dramatic, selfish, etc. And yes I do agree with you that lots of kids are that way. But if your husband does not WANT her to be that way, and you say its OK most of the time, because kids will be kids, your daughter is not getting consistent parenting, as you say that you need to give her. Your husband doesn't want her to do that. And good luck getting it to stop, right? My suggestion to you, in order to get along with your husband, is to side with him. When your husband is around, make sure he hears you tell your daughter "do what dad says" or whatever, and stick with him. That is what will change your daughters behavior, since she'll know you guys are sticking together on this.
I know how hard it is, because my husband and I are on opposite ends of the rope on some things. You just have to show your husband some respect for his needs in raising the child and I'm sure you won't be walking on egg shells so much. Good luck.

Whining can be so irritating. I can see how he would be upset. However, children are learning and growing and don't often "get it right" all the time. She is learning. She didn't learn to read the first time she saw an alphabet. She will whine when circumstances dictate, not according to her dad, not according to her mom, but when she feels that way. The learning experience is an experience and will take at least 18 years for her to become an adult with good manners. If she is like most kids, it will take another 5 to 10 years for her to gain the maturity that her parents have.

When my kids whined, I simply told them I didn't understand them and to ask with their happy voice. I think the requing them to ask with the "happy voice" did more to stop the whining that just about anything else.

Good luck to you and yours.

My DD also often does not listen the first time. Or when she does, doing the thing s more like a meandering path through the house vs doing the one thing she was told to do and that's it. HOW does he make the request? Sometimes if I need something done, I'll say, "DD, I don't have time for games this AM. Here are two pairs of socks. Pick one and put them on your feet."

If she is whining, then ignore it. Just shut it out and tell her your ears do not understand whining. Period.

Parenting is a long haul. You both need to look at what you are doing and what you need her to do and think about the long-term strategy to get her to 18 without leaving her out for bears.

If this is causing you and DH to fight, you might also suggest a parenting class or a chat with the pediatrician or her teacher.

Yeah, a kid is not "done" being raised at the age of six, it's not like training a dog. Shoot, even a highly trained dog won't always do what they're supposed to do.
Discipline is an ongoing process, a long term part of parenting, well into the teen years, and it only gets harder, believe me.
I'm not sure what advice I can give you. Your husband sounds like he either doesn't understand children at all, or he just doesn't have the patience or willingness to deal with being a father.
Would he be willing to take a parenting class, WITH you? I think that would be really helpful.

Well, hmm, I guess I'm not sure exactly the scenarios in which he's upset. I must admit that there is part of me that agrees when a parent (or other adult) asks my children to do something, I expect them to do it regardless of whether they want to or not. But, I do agree that it is up to the adults to follow through and make sure it happens.

I agree that most 6 years old are prone to drama and whining but that doesn't necessarily make it okay, right? I mean if I ask my kid to do something and she whines and fusses at me I'm not going to tolerate it just b/c "kids do that".

It sounds like maybe you and your husband need to have a discussion about expectations. Like is the whining happening over certain things or at certain times? Maybe you could agree that whining at the dinner table is never okay and you'll need a plan to address it. Or when she whines you need to give her a warning or something. I mean in the end, it sounds like you think your husband is too strict and he thinks you're too lenient.

Get on the same page! That will help. Maybe even look up some parenting classes in your area so that you can both have the same info and the same approach. Love and Logic is my personal favorite approach. Good luck!

Maybe it's time for your husband to take a trip to the pediatrician or teacher for some parenting advice on what's normal. A parenting class may also provide insight.
Nothing that you mention strikes me as concerning for a 6 year old, especially if you are saying that that behavior really is only 10% of a usually well behaved little girl.

Some people grew up when the parenting motto was still that kids should be seen not heard and the expectation was blind obedience.

As for it being normal: I think its normal to disagree on parenting every now and then, but it appears that your marriage problems go deeper than that and what would concern me is your inability to communicate with each other and come to a compromise on what you want for your daughter. I don't think anyone that is in a happy marriage would be walking on eggshells around their spouse over when a 6 year old starts whining...

Good luck.

Give him a child development book? It sounds like he's looking to train a dog, not raise a child. He really doesn't understand how kids "work" if these are his responses to the the issues at hand. Other than that, you need to continue to model the bahvior you wish to see in him.
I can't commiserate because my husband often defers to my extensive knowledge about kids and discipline, having worked with them for many years in many different settings. I'm sorry yours isn't respecting you enough to do so as well.

Call up your ped and tell him or her the same thing you told us. Tell the ped that you would like a professional to mediate between the two of you and ask for a reference. I will bet that this will really help.

And if he won't go, tell him he can sleep on the couch for a couple of weeks and mean it.

Time to get his head straight on what damage he is causing (saying to her that she never learns) and get on the same page with you. It will also help you both handle your daughter better.

Do this right away.

Good luck!
Dawn

Behind money, child raising is about the most fought over topic couples have. I would recommend a meeting with a neutral third party with child raising expertise (such as you Pediatrician or youth minister at church) and have them weigh in on the appropriateness of her behavior, what can be done to correct it, and how quickly you can expect to see results. But whatever you do, a team front and consistency will be crucial.

Wow, sorry you're going through this.

Yes, I think it's pretty normal. I know a number of marriages that ended because one partner (usually the woman) was so disillusioned after years of disapproving of the spouse's parenting, and a few marriages that are in trouble because of parenting differences. So yes, normal, but not good, at all.

In this case, you are right and your husband is wrong. Everything you wrote is correct. For him to be mad at a 6 year old and label her as selfish is to not recognize that he is the adult, and his role as a parent is to teach her, not to be get mad at people because of it.

If this continues long-term, it will likely cause big marital problems. You need to get your husband on the same page with you, somehow. I suggest you do it sooner rather than later. Counseling? Parenting classes?

I completely agree with Leigh. However, Nikki has a point. He could be reacting to how you are approaching him. It's important to get on the same page, so yes, parenting classes.

Your husband sounds like my mom...if my kids do one thing wrong I feel like we need to leave and I hate it. No way I'd be able to deal with that feeling in my own home 24-7. I think hubby needs a big reality check! Not sure how you get there with him, but he needs it.

My thing with my hubby is his mouth. He commutes 2 hour each way to work and has been doing it for 2 years, his mouth is horrible now. Even around the kids. He'll say something like "how many damn times do I have to tell you to pick up your shoes?" I always get on him, in front of the kids or not, because I can't stand that. He is getting better.

My dh is not the most consistant with discipline either. Because of this my dd often argues with him and refuses to listen to him, often the situation escalates to him yelling and her yelling back or crying. I have tried to tell him he needs to do one warning, then time out, ect, but he just doesnt get it. Instead of arguing with him, when I hear this going on, I just step on and say, if you dont listen to daddy, them I am going to put you in timeout. That usually gets her moving because she knows I mean business. There is no arguing with mommy. I also pick my battles with her and always ask her nicely first before getting turning everything into a battle. I have found my dh doesnt mind when I step in, as long as he feels I am supporting him, and it heads off a lot of drama between the two of them, and the two of us.

In this case your both right...yes, this is normal behavior for kids, but it doesn't make it ok to do. So, she needs to learn that whining doesn't get you what you want (whining is one of my biggest pet peeves, if my kids started to whine I would tell them that mom and daddy won't talk or listen to them until they stopped the whining and talk in a big kid voice) and yes she needs to learn that she is to do things when she is told too by a parent. Will it sometimes take more than once of telling her do to something?....yes, is this normal?....yes. However if she isn't doing something after being told a couple of times then yes, she needs to have a consequence.

I think you can't use the excuse that this is normal behavior, but yet he can't expect that just because you discipline her she's not going to do it anymore either.