Hurt Feelings - Bradley,IL

This is an issue that parents need to stay out of and let the kids handle.

Your son's vote is your son's business. I would tell her that I'm sorry that her son did not get the position available, but that was a group decision. Had the voting been counted in a different order, your son wouldn't have been the tie breaker. She needs to take her personal feelings out of it. Your son owes them no more explanation than any other boy who voted pro or con. If their son continues to run for an office he doesn't get, maybe they should consider there is a reason he's not being elected.

ETA: To the person to mentioned "reciprocity". Reciprocity would be her taking their son to events, etc. Not her son swinging his vote for his friend if he didn't think the kid should be the officer. There's nothing to "explain" because he doesn't need to justify his vote. I'm not saying not to call her back, but not get into any explanation or apology about the way the TROOP voted.

She is taking her son's disappointment as a personal affront to her, and acting like your son owes HER his vote because she does many nice things. She says HER feelings are hurt, for crying out loud!!

All of which ignores that fact that her son may not be considered skilled enough to be assistant patrol leader. He has lost 3 times, but the person she is mad at is your son. She needs to back off and get out of the scout program, and she needs to (if anything) work with the scout leaders to help her son develop the leadership skills he is lacking. Your son's vote did not cause 3 losses - all of the other votes for other kids are an indication that other scouts are as, or more, qualified.

You should be showing her your appreciation for what she does - but not through forcing your son to vote anything other than his conscience.

I DO think votes should be secret ballot, so a choice is about qualifications and not friendship. Her son should be commended for trying, and he should be reaching out to his scout leaders for suggestions on projects he can do, badges to work on or skills to develop to help him learn. None of these jobs should be popularity contests.

You're right, it's not something your son "did" to the other boy! I think your job is to tell her the kids have to work it out, and that the scout leaders are the resources here. You can be sympathetic that none of us likes to see our kids hurt, but they have to start to find their own way and reach out on their own to teachers, advisors, scout leaders, etc.

Leave it. I'm sorry you already told this mom that you'd speak to your son, because I truly would not do that, nor would I talk to the adult troop leader. I would not involve the adult leader in any issues about the voting or mention that the boy's upset. The leader likely knows that perfectly well already.

If the voting is done publicly and that's the norm, that's simply how it is and both boys knew that going into it; if it's a secret ballot, same thing, both boys knew that was coming. They've been to this rodeo before if this is the friend's third try. Your son might have voted for another kid because your son seriously felt the other kid would be better at the job. Or not. Your son could have voted for the other kid just because he was mad at his buddy that moment, and might regret it now. Either way, it is done, and your son and his friend will live with it.

If invitations from the friend's family dry up, you'll have to tell your son that some people take things hard and personally, and then direct him to other friends. But your son does not owe his friend a vote -- and you do not owe the mom an explanation for your son's vote -- because they do a lot with your son. That is between the boys and their troop.

I think it was out of line for the mom to call you. I note that you mention she said "her feelings were hurt" -- her focus was on herself, not her son, in that moment. I'd just tell her, I'm sorry Billy didn't get the post. How Son voted is up to Son and I'm sure the boys can work out any issues. Then drop it.

I would watch for this mom to start saying no when you want to leave your son with her while you work. Maybe she will drop this herself, but a mom who calls whining about how her own feelings are hurt in a case like this (as if you could do anything about the vote after the fact?!) is a mom who sounds likely to take things out on your son and you.

Maybe it's time for both these boys to branch out anyway and not be in each other's pockets while you work, on vacations, AND in scouts as well.

I suggest that your focus should be on validating the mom's feelings instead of whether or not your son should have voted for her son. I suggest that because you are friends and she's an active part of your life and because you told her you would call back, calling her is the right thing to do. Empathize with her. It's not your place to judge her as being overly involved with her son's activities. She has told you she's feeling hurt. Friends sympathize with friends.

If she wants to talk about the votes, tell her that as much as you'd like to help her you' think it's important to let the boys work this out for themselves.. Reassure her that you want to remain friends.

Does the fact that her son lost 3 times tell her anything? Wow! She needs to butt out of your son's voting choice and encourage her own son to pursue his strengths. I would tell her your son is 11 and you are staying out of it and then let the chips fall.....

Not call her back? This is a good friend who takes care of your son all the time and people think you don't owe her a call back? Maybe she shouldn't have called or you should have told her right away you wanted the boys to talk about it but now I think you need to respond to her after you speak to your son. Blowing her off doesn't seem the right strategy if she's a good friend and does a lot for you. I can't imagine doing that. Sounds like a tough situation but you have to take her reaction in the big picture of what sounds like a good and close relationship. Seems like some people are thinking she's some random mom calling you and butting in. So I'd now just see what your son says and find a way to tell her the boys should handle it while being sympathetic to how she and her son feel. You don't say she constantly butts in or makes her son's problems hers. So context seems important.

The mom was wrong to question you about this.

Also, your son's vote did not count more than anyone else's therefore his vote wasn't the deciding vote. It sounds like your son just happened to be the last to vote.

It is really a shame the votes were not kept private as they should have been. I understand why an 11 yo would have hurt feelings.

Your son did nothing wrong and the other mother is out of line to make this an issue. I agree with talking to the group about finding a better way to vote that is more private to avoid situations like this in the future. I would tell the other mom that I think we need to stay out of it and let the boys handle it, that is not fair to demonize your son just because he voted for someone else, someone who was also more then likely his friend as well.

Diane B is absolutely right.

I wonder if your friend understands that she is basically saying that anyone should be able to "buy" votes by being friends with people and doing nice things for them, no matter how unqualified they are.

If everyone's head was down, your son couldn't have been the tie breaker. His vote was just one of the votes. Every other boy who voted had the same right to vote for another kid.

Honestly, this woman is blaming your son for her own son's failings.

I'm with Fuzzy. Sorry, but your friend sounds immature. HER feelings are hurt and now she wants an explanation from your son as to his vote?

Voting is a private affair. Votes should not be given in exchange for past favors. Ultimately, your son felt the other kid would be a better leader and made his choice based on that. I wouldn't even ask him about it.

This mom friend of yours is going to need to take a deep breath and remove herself from the situation. What she should be doing is giving her son a little consolation "yeah, it's hard to put yourself out there sometimes, and the group voted and they chose the other guy. It happens." Disappointment can be a good thing because it gives us opportunities to develop resilience and to reconsider our goals. The better lesson is for the boys to learn to get past these sorts of moments. I understand that she wanted something for her son, and I know our hearts hurt for our kids when they are disappointed, but I'd say nothing to your son. He is not responsible for the feelings of another adult and to put that on him would be grossly manipulative. Just my 2 cents.

Awkward!
I agree she should not have confronted you.
In my life, this falls into the "He's such a huge goofball, I'm not even sure he knew what he was voting for!" category of responses.

Been there, done that.

My youngest was friends with a child whose Mom was WAY too involved. The Mom would go around saying the girls are sisters and constantly inserted herself into their relationship. She even called my daughter to try to smooth things over once when the girls were in a disagreement. The whole thing was weird and unhealthy. Needless to say they are not friends anymore.

Sorry but if the Mom is saying HER feelings are hurt watch out. I have found that it's a fine line between "fun" mom and way too involved, I'm feeding off my kids social life, insert myself into every scenario Mom.

They are 11 years old, she needs to find something more important to focus on than a Boy Scout election.

I can completely understand that there would be hurt feelings here. She felt that your two boys were better friends and than they apparently are. Your son did not have his back just because they were friends. That being said, your son was absolutely right to vote for who he thought would be better suited to the position. The other Mom was also wrong to call you and question you about your son's vote. She let her hurt for her child get in the way of common sense. If you are good friends with her, then you should call her back and let her know that your son voted for who he believed to be best for the position. It is a shame that the votes are not private. The fact that this kid lost three times should tell them something.

i'm a little taken aback that a mother would take this so personally. we're all disappointed for our kids when they lose something, but to call you and take you to task because of the way your son voted?
he shouldn't feel obliged to vote for someone just because they're a friend. the kids are getting practice now for the important civic function of voting, and part of that is learning to vote for whom one thinks would be best for the job, not just the person you find most likable.
i'd be very nice but firm with her. 'dottie, i'm sorry your feelings are hurt over this. but i hope you recognize that voting is a very individual and private matter, and i don't feel comfortable with either one of us quizzing avery for his decision. i'm sorry johnson didn't win, but i love that our troop is teaching them about this, aren't you? it's such an important part of citizenship. now, what snack are you bringing to the next meet? i just found a recipe for caramel brownies i'm dying to try.'
you don't want to turn it into a Big Thing, and you really don't want your son to feel guilty or obligated.
you do want to discourage her from guilt-tripping your or your son.
khairete
S.

I think the mom has a lot of nerve asking you why your son voted a certain way. And how crappy of it to be an open election, to where people know who voted. At 11, they should really be teaching them the right way to vote and that unless you WANT to tell someone, your vote can remain private.

I had a call like that once.

I made same mistake - saying I would look into and call her back.

Never again ...

I agree - the vote should be private, but kids all talk and it's not hard to figure it out (think Survivor...).

I would just talk to your son - and then listen. Maybe he doesn't really like this kid as much and feels he has to hang out with him. Who knows. You won't know until you talk to him. Maybe he just thought the other kid would be a better assistant petrol leader. Maybe he didn't think it was a big deal ...

If the moms don't get involved, usually these things resolve within a few days (longest a week). When moms get involved, it rarely goes well.

If it were me, I wouldn't call her back - I'd talk to your child, and let him handle it. You can always just tell her you're sorry there was an upset, but you feel the kids should sort it out.

Good luck :)

call her and tell her your son has freedom of choice just like every other person in the world. no one can force him to vote for a specific person. (this is what is wrong with america, were told by the media who to vote for and look where it has got us)
KUDOS to your son for using his brain and voting based on what he thinks (not what someone else expects him to think)

Your son did nothing wrong. He voted for the person he felt was better suited. Seems to me that if his friend has run for this position that many times, he would get that perhaps he might want to go for a different office.

HIS mother was out of line. You do not owe her and explanation nor does he owe one to her son. Sorry, his vote, his decision. I would also explain that to your friend. "Sorry Betty, I'm not going to get involved with this. His vote, his decision".

If the friendship ends over this, then I would tell my son that decisions have consequences. This is a life lesson for all.

Oh jeez. It's not your son's fault. Your son is allowed to vote for someone else, even though he spends time with this kid. Hopefully the other mother can be mature about it. If not, you may have to distance yourself from her.

geez - she does a lot for your son and the boys are best friends and she's not allowed to have hurt feelings? Right now you have no idea what happened but ask him. And then you'll have to be somewhat honest with her. People usually just want some sort of explanation. I think it's better she said something vs figured "wow, some friends they are after all I do for them" and pulled back. Why shouldn't she expect some reciprocity? Not sure I'd actually have said something if I were her but I can see why they're upset. If your best friend doesn't vote for you for a not crucial position, who will? Actually, lots of other kids did so the boy can't be all bad for the position. Hopefully there is a way to explain to smooth over feelings. I'm sure your son did nothing actually wrong and a position in boy scouts is not impt in the long run but people do value loyalty. Is the boy who won such a good friend too? And yes, voting should be private. If this happened to me though, I'd find a way to explain and maintain the friendship.

The person I would want to talk to is the troop leader. I don't know anything about boy scouts, but it seems to me that this kind of public voting, where everyone knows who everyone else voted for, should be changed. It's just asking for hurt feelings among the kids in the troop.

I do think that you will need to tell your son that he hurt his friend's feelings though. Kids this age can be pretty oblivious.

Well I'd call her back, and I'd say, "hey, not to sound snarky, but after some thought, I've changed my mind and decided not to talk to my son about this issue. I don't think we moms should micromanage their friendship and scouting experiences. This is something the boys need to work out for themselves." For what it's worth, I would also empathize that it would be really hard to see your son so hurt and crestfallen after 3 losses. I really wouldn't even bring this up to your son unless he does first. He is not responsible for explaining himself to anyone for his vote, for handling his friend's or friend's mom's hurt feelings.