Help Talking to a Friend

NAET.com for allergy eliminations. Sometimes you don't want to eat when you are allergic, or it could be that you are ravinous all the time.

Be well.
N.

It sounds like she isn't going to listen to you so perhaps she will listen to her pediatrician?

Otherwise, send her some articles on the subject. If this still does not work, I'd call social services and ask for their advice but don't tell them where you are calling from and certainly do not let her know.

Did she have a c-section? This happens more often with c/s moms - with the bonding, etc. It can happen to anyone, but just more frequently with c/s. Refer her to ICAN when she's feeling better....if indeed it was a c/s.

So glad you stepped in.

Does she take her baby to a pediatrician? If so, can you find out his/her name and contact the doctor and express your concerns? Go from there. If that isn't an option, consider contacting Child Protection Services through your local county. I know it seems "mean" but your friend's child is being severely neglected because of your her serious psychological issues. You can report her anonymously, too. God bless you.

Jennifer B

It sounds like your friend is neglecting her child's growth at this age, in the end it will stunt his growth and development. If you feel he is being neglected you should take steps to get the child a caring home. Your friend sounds like she has other priorities other than the health of her child. You are correct that the child should weigh more than he does not. Sometimes it takes drastic steps to get the correct care for children or adults. You have seen the experience's of others, your approach should be one of choices such as "either you feed your child or let me." Or ask if she needs more help caring for her baby and you would be happy to be there for the help.

Another thing to consider is this, if you don't takes steps to privately change her behavior, then the doctor will at the next check up and he is required by law to remove the baby from the home until the mother takes parenting courses to learn how to raise children. That is another thought, you could sign up for "parenting classes" and ask your friend to come with you. You don't need it, but this will encourage her to attend as your friend and she will most likely learn something she didn't know or is not being told, or refuses to listen to. I know you will get many good ideas on how to approach your friend, the choice is yours before an outsider or stranger does the more drastic of choices. I wish you all the luck in the world.

I'm sorry but malnutrition is considered neglect. If your friend has not taken your advise maybe you should report her to child protective services. Hopefully a social worker will be able to get her attention before she does perminent damage to her son.

Does she have issues of her OWN concerning weight!? She may need help for herself, if her biggest concern is that her child is going to be overweight...?

As I'm sure YOU know, babies who are fed only breast milk or formula can't really be "over weight". This is what you need to convince HER of now.

4 months old and only 9lbs is UNhealthy, especially if he was 7lbs when he was born!! This poor child is STARVED.

I would say, try and address it a bit more 'aggressively'. Tell your friend that she NEEDS to do her research, and ask her to please talk to her pediatrician about it so that she can UNDERSTAND and be educated about her son's nutritional needs.

Don't be worried about offending her, it's for her son's own good! She just doesn't know it yet...

If it gets REALLY bad ans she really won't listen to anyone, than I would seriously consider calling CPS (child protective services) on her. You can do it "anonymously". This may seem a little harsh - but it's better than seeing a poor, helpless child getting ill because he is malnourished. Don't wait until this happens - it's too sad.

I'm sure your friend does NOT have bad intentions, but she really needs a wake up call, so please do WHATEVER it takes to save this poor baby!!

Best of luck to you!!!

Unfortunately, you need to call CPS, NOW. Here's the number:
800-540-4000

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cdssweb/PG93.htm

Has some info (not a lot), and links to different hotline numbers if I goofed and you're not in LA county.

Here's the thing to know about CPS...THEY ONLY TAKE CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS AS A LAST RESORT. In fact, most of the time a certain numbers of callers have to file a complaint for someone to even be sent. (Tip: If you ever think someone is being actively abused and needs help right then, call 911 for a "child welfare check", and they will send the police.

But back to CPS. Stage 1) They have to receive a certain number of reports. These are called "flags". After a certain number of flags are reached, they send someone to do an inspection. 2)At that point the socialworker usually leaves the child/ren with their parents and goes back and writes a report, making recommendations. 3) The most frequent recommendations are parenting classes and mandatory doctors visits, with the doctors forwarding the results on to CPS. Usually this takes care of the problem.

In washington state an infant and a six year old starved to death last year (quite publicly starved to death that is...I know too many ER doctors and nurses...many many more ACTUALLY starve to death each year), with their parents having been flagged multiple times with no visit, so a call of a parent withholding food in WA has earned an automatic visit (at least for the time being. This isn't the case as far as I know in CA. So if a social worker shows up on your friend's doorstep, you'll know that you're actually the 4th, 5th, or 6th person to call. More than likely, nothing will happen, which is very very sad.

If you're concerned about losing the friend, you CAN report anonymously. Obviously, CPS doesn't really like it when people do that, and they will try and convince callers to at least upgrade to anonymous to abuser, but willing to be called by police/court.

How do I know all of this? I had to do it. Twice, actually. One with a friend who'd become brain damaged (from a fall...frontal brain slosh), and was a serious risk to his kids. He'd mistake the people around him for common household objects. So gently carrying the dufflesack and swinging the baby...putting his older daughter in the fireplace, because he thought she was a log, etc. There were 6 broken bones between the two girls, a third degree burn, and a nail through the babies hand (as he tried to hang her up with the other "pictures") before anything was done. The other was a friend who had decided she'd had enough of her autistic son refusing food, and so only offered him food that she knew he'd refuse, trying to force him to eat it. I found out on day 9 with nothing but water, and called 911.

Neither of these were easy things to do. Both had spouses who were doing nothing, both thought they were in the "right", both had families that were trying to take care of the kids on the sly (babysitting & what have you). Guess what. NEITHER of those cases had the children removed even overnight from their families (well, the autistic boy was hospitalized for 5 days, but his parents were allowed to stay with him)...but the intervention and many many many others and I fought for...was worth it. all 3 of those kids are doing well now. Their parents got the help that they needed through social services/counseling/education that they had disdained in the past.

Call CPS. Now.
800-540-4000

Thank god she has you as a friend! Good for you for stepping out of your comfort zone and confronting the situation. Child neglect is not something that should be tolerated, even if it is due to ignorance. I would be really scared what damage she may have already caused to his development by this behavior. I hope she will continue to get treatment and someone continues to monitor the situation.

Just read your update. So glad she is getting the help she needs.

Please think of the BABY not the mom. Your friendship is not worth a babies life. Everyone needs to help babies they can't help themselves. He is literally staving. How would you feel if something really bad happened and you never said anything? Could you live with that. I really don't want to sound mean, But this baby needs your help. PLEASE REPORT HER FOR THE BABIES SAKE. PLEASE DON"T WAIT THERE MAY NOT BE VERY MUCH TIME. Does she go to the doctors for the babies check ups? You would not be out of line turning her in. It's not a matter of how she is raising her child this could be life and death.
Sue

I saw your follow-up remarks and I am so glad she is getting help and the baby is being cared for. I'm sure she will be fine. I had post-partum depression really bad, and medication helped me a lot. You are a great friend and she is blessed to have you.

Jennifer,
You are a brave woman and a great friend. You should be so proud of yourself for stepping in and helping your friend and her baby. Post-partem depression is such a hard thing to go though, I know, I suffered from it.
S. G.

Uh? I would risk the friendship and say something. If it is such a concern "Ethiopian Child" tell her your bluntly, I think and so does everyone else your not feeding you baby enough. "It's cruel what your doing" If they baby is so "Starving" just say it, and if it's not and this message feels extreme then maybe you should mind your own business. She has a pediatrician who will tell her if her baby is underweight and should be concerned. I'm sure so she'll sort it out. Otherwise I'd report her, good lord.

if she won't listen to you, if you know her pediatrician CALL HIM/HER!!!!! that is way too small for a child his age. if you don't know it, i know it sounds harsh, but i would make a call to child services. this child is literally being starved and is not okay. that poor baby should be eating at least 4-6 ounces at a time and is not growing properly because he is being deliberately deprived of nutrition. please, for the sake of this child, take drastic measures. i am an RN and have three children of my own. my youngest is three months and weighs 13lbs!!!!! he breastfeeds on demand and when i am away he drinks breastmilk or formula from the bottle and will eat anywhere from 3-6 oz. at a time, sometimes as much as 8 oz. in two hours if he's just woken up from sleeping all night. PLEASE, PLEASE try talking to her again and if you get no where, call child services. they will help her parent properly and you can remain anonymous, i promise. i am a mandated reporter and know the rules, you can remain anonymous. my heart hurts for this poor child and i am very concerned for his well-being because he is being starved!!!!! please let me know how this turns out, and stand up for that precious child.

Hello Jennifer. This is such a touchy subject, because no wants to hear that what they are doing is wrong. I say maybe the best way to approach her is by telling her you saw on a TV show that babies should be eating "X" amount of food "X" amount of times a day at "X" age. I really don't know, but another option is simply providing literature for her. There are plenty of parenting magazines out there and I'm sure at least one has an article about this. I would maybe cut it out and give it to her, and nicely say something like "I was reading this article and thought about _____ (insert baby's name here), because he shows some of the signs of wanting more food". That's the best I can think of right now, but good luck with this!!!

ok, I just read the second post that you posted - sorry I didn't see it before. I am so glad she is getting help, and that the baby is, too :)

Hi Jennifer...I just wanted to say kudos to you for sticking yourself on the line for your friend and for her son!!! I can only imagine hard it must have been for you to do!!

What an amazing friend you must be! Your friend and her son are incredibly lucky to have you :)

Jennifer,

That is tragic. What a misguided friend you have. I presume she is not taking him for his doctor visits and immunizations he should be having at this age, or else the doctor would handle this. I don't think there is anything you or anyone else can say to her that will change her mind, because she has this horrible notion that if she feeds her baby more, he will get fat. She is denying her son the food and nutrients that he needs to grow and develop properly.

This may be hard for you to hear, but I really think you should ANONYMOUSLY report your friend to Child Protective Services. I think the official name is Department of Children and Families. You can call and anonymously report the situation and a social worker will visit her and evaluate the situation. Then she will receive the guidance she needs, whether she wants it or not, but more importantly, her baby will get the food he needs. I know it sounds horrible, but the baby is too young to fight for his own needs; if his mother won't feed him enough and you know that he is malnourished, then it is your responsibility to fight on behalf of the baby. Remember, if you report your friend anonymously and many other people have already tried to talk to her, she'll never know it was you who made the call. And even if she were to guess it is you, it is better to lose the friendship then for her child to starve and probably suffer permanent developmental damage and who knows what else. Please let me know what happens. Good luck.

K.

If she does not change you will need to contact child protective services...seriously.

This is such a difficult situation - a friend of mine is in the same situation with her brother and his new baby. She hasn't found a good way to deal with it either and is worried for the baby's health.

Here are a few ideas - if any of them works for you, great.

1. Do you have any kind of relationship with the baby's father? If so, you could call him. I would focus on your concern for the baby's health - "I know not all babies grow at the same rate, but Johnny seems to be awfully skinny. Has your doctor said anything about it?"

2. Do you have any mutual friends who are nurses or doctors? Maybe their advice would carry more weight.

3. At the risk of alienating the friend, you could approach her more strongly, with literature in hand about normal growth curves for babies. She may not know that babies essentially have an automatic shut-off valve when it comes to food: They will not eat any more than they're hungry for. Have you ever tried to feed an infant who just didn't want to eat? I have. It doesn't work.

4. Past that, I don't think there's anything you can do. If it's truly dangerous for the child, the pediatrician will spot it and intervene. At least you have to hope for that.

Good luck.

Hello, We had the same problem with the mother of one of our grandsons. We ended up with custody for 3 years. Anyway, they had been living with us and were feeding him every two hours as well. I suggested that they introduce cereal to help with his hunger. After a little while, I noticed that the baby wasn't getting his cereal and questioned the mother about it. Her reply was that first they ran out and didn't have the money for more (they weren't paying any bills and we would have bought anything the baby needed), and that then when they got some, she just didn't feel like giving it to him. She then said that she didn't want a fat baby. After counting to something like two million, I told her that she couldn't just take away a meal after introducing it, and that she needed to think of it as feeding his brain and not to make him fat. I mentioned cognizant thinking and how it was important for him to have good nutrition. Later, after we had custody, during one of the parent visits, she tried to give him kool-aid in his cereal. He was about 7 months old. One time, when I left her here with him, I set up the video camera and taped her behavior with him. As soon as I left, she threw out his cereal and gave him M&Ms. He was just over a year. I had to go through the whole thing again. When he was to be transitioned to his parents after three years, this was one of my big concerns. He is now 10 years old and doesn't eat real well, but it is just another cross to bear. Anyway, I would just mention that by not feeding him when he is hungry, she is depriving him from being able to grow up healthy.
Good luck with this very important situation. Your friend's son is very lucky to have you in his life.
K. K.

maybe very carefully find out who her doctor is and speak with him or her about your concerns. Babies NEED lots of fat for brain development and to protect their bodies when they start to walk. She sounds like she is risking her baby's healthy brain development and could cause some brain damage. SHE needs help if she is worried about a "fat" baby. It sounds like it's her issue.
Keep trying to help her. If that doesn't work then I strongly suggest calling DPSS let them take over, you don't have to leave a name. If she is not feeding her baby enough that is considered child neglect. DON'T GIVE UP PLEASE!!!

CEO Special Beginnings
An Early Intervention Network

Jennifer,

sorry but your friend needs a reality check and needs to know firmly from you as her good friend that her baby is being neglected which could result in her baby being taken away.

I doubt she wants to loose her baby, so she needs to talk with the pediatrician and get some good advise from them. the child can be taken away even through a regular dr. checkup.

Maybe she needs help financially and can't afford the extra milk. I don't know what excuse is there but that child needs to eat more.

Also, she might just be a 1st time mommy who doesn't know any better...but she has to be willing to take the advice given to her if she doesn't know any better.

good luck and know you are doing the right thing for the baby not in her interest.

C.

Alot of great advice~ I would suggest the doctor ASAP! Your friend will take advice better from a strange then from you anyway. If after the doc appt you see no changes then you are going to have to call CPS. Tough call on your part, but this baby needs MORE then he is getting. There could be serious issues for the childs health both physical and mental, and 'fat' babies are not big adults (normally) I had three 9+pounders who stayed well into the 90% until the age of 1.5 when they started being more active! The mom might need therapy too, just so she knows that infants, toddlers and children require MORE of everything as compared to adults. Get her help ASAP!

Jennifer,

This makes me so sad. I am a dietitian and I see parents who overfeed and underfeed their children and someone needs to step in. Honestly, it is worth sacrificing your friendship to help this child. 9 pounds at 4 months is really small. I wish I knew what their doctor thinks??

Considering she gets defensive, I was thinking that you could send the exact statement written above. If she knows you are turning to others to help her son, it may open her eyes a little bit. Another tactic might be to ask her to give him 4 ounces just once to see if it helps his "colic." Then, she will see that he wants it (and needs it).

Babies are smart and will stop eating when they are full. Remind her of this. Around age 5, children learn to eat for comfort and fun, but before then it is for growth and rarely do they over eat.

My son is 4 1/2 months old and he ate 9 ounces at one serving yesterday. He was just having a hungry day. They know what they need. I wish you the best of luck in this. It makes me very sad as she could be setting her son up for a whole host of problems.

L. Schmitt

I would suggest getting a book that deals with the issue so that she can see that it's not just you but there are medical facts that back up what you are saying. My youngest was such a pig and at a few months old she was almost up to eight ounces for each feeding and we had to add the baby cereal in her milk to fill her up and she's almost three and had thinned out considerably. I hope everything works out ok.

Do you know the name of the pediatrician your friend uses? If so, you might consider calling the pediatrician and making him/her aware of your concerns so the doctor can decide if its something he/she wants to address with your friend.

Hope I can be of assistance. These are the things I have done with a friend in a similar situation. I have five childred (8 yrs to 4 months. Although I breastfed, when I pumped on a rare ocassion, I am aware of how uch my baby needs to eat at one feeding.
Maybe all of you could get together and have a friendly intervention without coming across offensive.Get her a book on infant feeding, all the things you need to know for an infant( as a new baby gift with a formula guide, etc. It may come down to hearing it from the pediatrician. Maybe call her ped. and use her(without using her name) as a hypothetical stiuation from her point of view to get some good idesa on how to best approach her, then your friend won't feel uncomfortable when she goes to the ped, and they won't know who she is. good luck
Let us know how it turned out!

That is heartbreaking and incredibly stupid on her part, sorry. Give her a printout on "infant feeding", talk to her pediatrician if you by chance go to the same one, tell her mother to intervene, call Early Intervention and ask them what to do. She is basically starving her child and that is incredibly detrimental to his growth and development. Put aside and sacrifice friendship if you have to, the baby is more important. Find info on how underfeeding doesnt' allow the brain to develop as it should and how it will hurt him for the rest of his life. Approach it aggressively and do whatever you can to get her to listen and heed your advice. Are you sure you want to be friends with someone like that anyway??!!

Turn her into child services or ask your pediatrician what to do. The baby's health is more important than your friendship, in my opinion.

Jennifer, keep telling her, because she's wrong. My second son was 9 pounds and 6 ounces when he was born, I'm surprised her baby's ped hasn't called CPS on her. I have a 4 month old baby girl in my daycare, she drinks 6 oz's at a time plus, she eats fruits, vegies, and rice cereal, when you have him it's good you feed him more, the problem is his system may not handle to well, cause the way she feeds him. How sad, keep on her case, even if she gets mad, and honestly I hate to give you this advice but if this baby is going hungry, you may need to call CPS, 9 pounds for a 4 month old is like starvation. Let me know what happens. J. L.

If you are really concerned, I would call her pediatrician and tell her/him your concerns. Your friend may hate you for it, but if the child is in danger, it may be the best thing to do. I have a four month old who was born 6 lbs 1 oz. She's now almost thirteen pounds and in the 43% percentile for body weight. There is so much out there about obesity that I understand her concerns, but food is necessary for developing brain function. On the other hand, if she is seeing her pediatrician regularly and the pediatrician is not concerned, there's not much you can do. The other option would be to somehow direct her to this site and to this line of questioning.

Despite what I have written above, I am a firm believer in letting people raise their kids their own way UNLESS the child is in danger.

Good luck!

I think in this particular case where the baby's health is obviously in jeopardy, you and other friends, should get together and try again to talk to your friend in a straighforward manner. Just tell her the facts...that the baby is hungry and need to eat more. Give her a book on the subject, or convince her pediatrician to talk to her. The baby's life is the most important here, and if you are a true friend tell her straight, and if she is a true friend she should know you are telling her out of concern.

G.

Good job Jennifer! It looks like you were in a tough situation and handled it well. Glad to hear that your friend opened up about her emotional needs as well as getting the baby taken care of, that way he will be better served down the road too. Your friend is lucky to have you as a friend!

Edit: I just read your response, and I am so glad that both mom and baby are getting the help that they need. PPD can be a terrible and insidious thing. Thank goodness she has a "pushy" (and I mean that in a good way!) friend who helped her to get the help that she needed.

Just to be clear, are you sure it's formula she's feeding and not breastmilk? If it's breastmilk, she's probably feeding the right ammt. It differs from formula in that no matter the baby age, the ammt never changes, and you do feed about 1 oz/hr with smaller, more frequent ammts being preferable. So for a breastfed baby, 2 oz bottles every 2 hrs would be about right, although we do not encourage schedule feeding breastfed babies (because of these types of issues). Rather, we encourage feeding on demand to ensure baby's nutritional needs are being met.

If it's not breastmilk, I'm stumped. I always thought you had to feed more formula than breastmilk, but I've never FF, so I don't know.

Are she and her husband really small people? That could explain a tiny baby, but 9 lb seems really, really small for a 4 month old. Really small. Is he meeting his milestones? Does he generally seem happy? You never want to fall into the trap of comparing babies. They can be so different, but are you positive it was 9 lbs at 4 months? Even on the WHO growth charts, that's not even on a percentile. Is her pediatrician on board with her feeding plan? How is head circumference and length?

Honestly, if you are concerned that she is intentionally starving her infant, an anonymous call to child protective services might be in order. What I would do is call my own pediatrician and ask him his thoughts in the situation. Tell him I'm concerned enough to be considering calling CPS. See what he thinks. If he said, yeah, that sounds pretty deeply concerning, then I probably would make the call. Sure she might figure out that you did it, but she might not, and what's worse? A lost friendship or a dead baby?

Anyway, those are my completely random thoughts. Good luck with a tough situation.

I'd do an intervention in which all of you approach her at once and at the end, if she doesn't see fit to consult her pediatrician, call CPS.

Maybe it would help to email her some information, rather than talk to her directly about it. I typed "How Much Formula To Feed Baby" into my search engine and found tons of sites that address this. Here is a link to one: http://www.drgreene.com/21_857.html. According to this article, you are right -- her baby isn't getting nearly enough formula. Maybe you could email the link to her and tell her you were looking up the info for yourself and thought she would find the information helpful too. Or, you could email it to SEVERAL friends so she doesn't feel singled out but she will still get the info. It is great that you care enough about her and her child to want to help. I hope she reads it! Good luck!

I always use research instead of my opinion so it doesn't sound so harsh. Something like, "I read the other day in my LLL magazine that you should breastfeed 20min per side at this age, so they're getting about 8oz per feeding." ... "Maybe you should try to offer more so he's full and happier...."

I just read your update and am glad that everyone is getting the help that is needed. You were a ture friend to both your friend, and her little guy. My heart goes out to her, it's gotta be tough, but it sounds like she's going to get support and is on the right path.

Dear Jennifer,
I am so glad you got him and her to the doctors and she is now having help. I am sure with the family involved, he should catch up on his lag in growth at this time. Your friendship certainly was a blessing to her and her little son and she will appreciate it when she recovers. Make sure you support her while she is in treatment...book or magazine to read, visit, craft project is she crochets or knits, etc. Depression is an illness and people to not understand why they feel that way. With professional help, medicine, etc. things should turn out.
Blessings,
H.

Only her doctor can have this discussion with her, and she might ignore him/her, too. There's so much talk about childhood obesity that some parents are terrified. It's virtually impossible for a 4 month old to overeat, but if he grows up chronically hungry, when he gets older he'll be prone to binging, sneaking food and generally overeating.

By feeding him every 2 hours, she's at least making sure there's always food in his system, and that's good. You might say something like, "He needs more now than he did as a newborn." Or, you could say, "If you fed him more each time, you'd need to feed him less often." Ideally, she'd give him a full bottle and let HIM decide when to stop eating.

Also, please remember not to compare babies or worry about the "average." My kids ate like horses and were still smaller than their peers. By age 5 or 6, though, you couldn't tell the difference.

Try printing out something from the internet that shows how much you are supposed to feed babies his age, and give it to her. Say' "hey I found this great article about feeding a baby!"
God, what an idiot!!
If this woman is a good friend, then she should not get mad at you for bringing it up. I think a childs welfare is more important then a friendship. If you really feel like this child is being abused then do something about it.
Doesn't she take him to a pediatrician? She definately should be feeding him more. What about solid food? Does she feed him any????? He doesn't need it, but maybe you can suggest it.
Poor child.
Well, good luck with this!

I would give one more bit of advise and then , if it were me ,I would drop this girl. Maybe that will reach her. This is the advise."
Are you aware that babies and toddlers eventually get sick? When they do they often lose a lot of weight and then it gets very scary.
There is a a reason babies are chubby. Breast or Formula, it doesn't matter: Babies should eat as much as they want. A few extra drops of formula isn't like pigging out on candy when you are 15.

Tell her this and then you have don't your best....
B. v. O.

Sometimes the right thing to do is the hardest. Do you know her pediatrition? Perhaps a phone call to them might help? 2 oz every 2 hours is insane and it sounds as though her baby needs an advocate. It is a delicate issue because you don't want her walking away from you all completely, but the babie's health is priority. I would start with the pediatrition, Dr's know how to handle these things and are aware of what courses of actions to take.

I hope that someone can get through to her!

K.

wow that's heavy..i would talk to her doc..she's also starving his brain..they need fat at that age..i would freak out on her..i'm pushy..i would lose it..and i would bring in family and friends to talk to her maybe even a social worker! jeez i can't believe her doc hasn't said anything..poor child! tell her it's normal for babies to be meaty not normal for a baby to be skinny...sad.

Wow, you are not in a good position! I'm surprised her pediatrician hasn't made suggestions to her, regarding feeding her son so little. I suppose if it comes down to it and your become truly frightened for the child, you could proceed with some kind of intervention, either with your other concerned friends and/or a professional as well.Best of luck getting through to her....

Please do something to help this child. What your friend is doing is called starvation. It is abusive and unacceptable. A doctor should have stepped in by this time but if the mom hasn't taken the child to regular check ups then she'll get away with what she's doing. This child needs help. Please call the authorities, ask your doctor, ask her doctor, but don't just stand by and watch this infant starve to death.