Help on Getting Children to Sleep Later

It's tough, but I'd say at those ages, you MUST enforce naps. Just like bedtime, create a ritual, a regular nap time, and be firm. You'll have to fight for a few days, but it's worth it. After a decent afternoon nap, the girls should be good till 7:00 or 7:30 at least.

The only thing that I could suggest is that you try putting them to bed later. It's not something that will just happen over night it's going to take awhile for them to get on a later sleep an wake cycle. Try a few times to keep them up as later as possible past 9:00 pm and try it for a few nights or weeks and if they fall asleep of try to this may sound mean but take a spray bottle and give them a few squirts to wake them.

I have a two and a half year old and 6 mos old twins so I have experienced the same difficulties. My daughter goes to bed about 8PM every night and is back up at 6AM. She used to go to bed at 7, but we were trying the same as you to get her to sleep later and the 8PM just stuck. Anyhow..I am one of those moms that as soon as I hear my daughter call my name, I am out of bed and in her room (especially because she would wake up crying for me). I read some advice somewhere that said to wait just 5 minutes after that first call. Toddlers, at least mine, are creatures of habit, and if they have been getting up at that same time for a long time, their bodies will naturally wake at that time..even if they are still tired and could probably go back to sleep. I tried just waiting five minutes or so after my daughter called my name in the morning. I didn't rush in her room. I didn't even answer. The first couple days she got out of bed and came in my room. The next week, she still called my name, but didn't cry or get up when I didn't come. Now she may wake up and call my name once, but she always stays in bed and ends up falling back asleep for at least an hour or so.

Other things that might be contributing to their waking and wanting to get up immediately is if they are wet, hungry or there is a lot of light in the morning in their rooms.

Just some thoughts. Hope it helps.

No matter how hard it is all children under six need naps. Set a schedule, tell them about it. Start a routine and DO NOT FAULTER. Lay them down-separately, read a story and let them know they are not to get up for two hours. Even if they don't sleep the first few days, be stern and let them know that they will be in bed for the full two hours no matter what. Playing is not allowed. After they see the routine is not faultering they will start taking naps(laying in bed is boring). Eventually, this could be your nap time as well.

I used the book Good Night, Sleep Tight, by Kim West. She addresses these issues and many others. It really helped me. I was so chronically sleep deprived. I was getting migraines and got to a point that I couldn't sleep even when my kids finally started to! My health was getting bad. My doctor said I had symptoms of a shift worker! All from sleep deprivation! I had the 2 worst sleepers on the planet. Please take a look at the book. She also has a website: www.thesleeplady.com.
My daughter is almost 15 months old and sleeps 11 hours at night and takes a 2 or more hour nap during the day. My son is 3 1/2 and is not as great a sleeper as my daughter. I still lay down with him to go to sleep, but he sleeps 9 to 10 hours at night and takes an 1 1/2 nap during the day.

The book will help you with scheduling and how to "mold" the new baby into a great sleeper.

Hope this helps.

Good luck
E.

Hey, A.!
I used to actually run a sleep clinic. Here's my advice... First, look at the overall amount of sleep the 2 and 4 year-old are getting. You should expect a 2 year-old to require about 12 -12.5 hours of sleep during a 24-hour period. For the 4 year-old, expect about 11-11.5 hours.

It sounds like they are getting all the sleep they need - just not on your preferred schedule. This also a possible reason for refusal of naps. Also, at 4 years old, it may be developmentally appropriate to start giving up the daytime nap. I would shoot for about 11 hours of SLEEP time during the night, which would set the 2 year-old up for needing a 1.5 hour nap during the day.

Your big task will be to gradually push the bedtime (and wake time) forward. I would do 2 things: Only change bedtime in 15-30 minute blocks. (If bedtime is 6 p.m. they are always ASLEEP by 6:30, push bedtime back to 6:15 or so). Expect a couple of things when you do this: 1) Some unwanted behavior (whining, tantrums) during this "witching hour", and 2) Kids that fall asleep a little faster.

The next big task is to keep them in bed until YOU let them out - you can do this by making it a fun game. Set an alarm for about 15-30 minutes after the time they USUALLY get out of bed... You could give them little prizes for staying in bed until the alarm goes off (for example, getting to pick what's for breakfast or being allowed to watch a favorite cartoon). The other BIG issue to address is: SUNLIGHT. Make sure they have dark or heavy curtains that block out light, and put an old fan or white noise machine in the room. Light and sound can easily trigger awakenings in the early morning.

Once they adjust to a 15-30 minute shift forward for a few days, do it again. Eventually, you should have kids that go to bed a bit later, and sleep a bit longer.

Hope this helps - Good luck!!
C.

Hi there - I raised 9 children and one hard and fast rule I implemented was they did not have to sleep in afternoon, but they had to lie down and look at books or play quietly for one hour - they had to look at big hand, etc to determine the time or wait for me to get them. They usually fell asleep. If they are kept pretty active in morning they will be ready for some quiet time. If bigger problem is their getting up too early? Use same rule - they may not get mommy until big hand, etc. Be very consistent w/ bedtime - a warm lavender scented bath at least 1/2 hour before established time (I might suggest 7:30) might be helpful and only quiet play, reading and/or music - no tv. I sure hope this helps and no, their little egos will not be permanently scarred if you use tough mommy policies with them.

Thats an easy one. If you put them to bed at 6pm they are going to wake up 11-12 hours later right on que. You have to put them to be later starting by maybe 15 mintues at a time...slowly so it doesnt mess them up too much. They are not going to change instantly but they will quickly. They are both old enough to know that they are not allowed to get out of bed until _______. Maybe until you come and get them or teach the 4 year old 7:00 on a digital clock or something. They should stay and play in bed if they get up before you want them awake. The other reason their tired at 5 is that they didnt get a nap. There is not such thing as a choice in my house so if they are done so early then they need a 2pm nap - no questions asked.

I just think the bedtime should be pushed back till at least 8. After a few days it should become routine for them. When your kids get up at 5:45-6, they've slept 12 hours already...Good luck, sleep deprivation for moms is the toughest...

I don't have experience with 3 children but, I do have experience with 2. My childeren are 15mths apart. I stayed tired for a long time because the baby woke up every hour on the hour at night. My 1yr old woke up 5:00 on the dot. Wouldn't take a nap all day went to bed at 6:00. Then my grandmother taught me a trick or more less a scd. To make her lay down and take a nap. At first it took alot of entergy to get her to lay in bed and go to sleep. Try reading giving kiss on head and saying nite nite. When she did finally get in the routie and i didn't give in to her wanting to stay up. She began sleeping 2hrs during the day. Which was time i could rest a rejuvinate. She started after that going to bed around 8:00 and waking up around 7:00. So, It might be worth a shot.

I have 2 girls 4 & 2, that also sleep in same room. Also don't have any curtains except the blinds...so DH thinks that is part of problem...but overall always been that they will wake up early no matter and both stopped taking naps at age of 2 yo.

My advice is to try daily exercise, I have found that when they get to the park for 1/2 hr of exercise or playing at an indoor playcenter. Also found that if we have to drive 15min to our location and back they are bound to get a little nap in if needed. Last resort, if I am exhausted, is to turn TV off, put some adult music on (classical or acoustic cafe) for about 1 hr...this will force my girls to calm down, whether they sleep or not doesn't matter, they are in a better mood and usually they will cuddle with me on couch and get sleepy.

Good luck, & God bless, K. S (AL)

I had trouble moving my daughters bedtime back some. She kept falling asleep in the floor or onthe couch. So i did this move her bedtime back 15 minutes wait a couple days and move it back 15 more. Keep doing this until she can get used to staying up til 8 or 830. Another way to help them sleep later is give them a snack right at betime. I dont know about you but my kids wake up that early and are usually starving. I too have a young baby so i understand the whole no sleep thing. Seems like as soon as you get baby settled in everyone else wakes up. Good luck!

I have a 2 1/2 yr old and "trained" her sleeping with the techniques I learned in a book called, The Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg and Melinda Blau. They also have one called The Baby Whisperer for Toddlers. I am sure that it will quickly help you to establish predictable routines including naps and bedtime for your little ones. With your 4 year old you can establish a quiet time if she is still unwilling to nap. As with anything, consistency is the key to success here. If your girls are exhausted by 5pm then their day needs to be rearranged from a 12 hour day starting at 5am to a 12 hour day starting at 7am. You can achieve this in stages so it will take a few months for it to be perfect. It will work though. You will also be able to train your newborn from the begining so she won't need to be retrained later. It's a smart, emphathetic book that is full of examples and solutions to issues in all areas of parenting. Good Luck.

Becky L suggested the Babywise method. I did use it as well, however this book, The Baby Whisperer is a softer more user friendly version. It is written by a well-known English nanny who consults people in their homes with terrific success. It's based off of the same principles, except I find that Babywise is too black and white and doesn't take your individual child's temperament into account like Tracy's book.

I don't understand when you say your girls refuse to take a nap. They are 2 & 3 and they are refusing to obey. i don't mean to sound harsh, but if they are setting the rules now..look out! They take naps in pre-k and K. Help your child get into that routine for her and her teachers sake, not to mention your insanity. You need them to take a nap, so you can recharge. Mom, you need a nap during the day with a new baby. Have you ever watched super nannie....I strongly suggest taking some time and invest in her show. All of her shows are wonderful and help to give examples of how to handle certain situations. You are the mom, you set the rules during the day...they need to know this. If they take a 2 hour nap during the day, they won't be exhaused by 5-6. By them taking a nap...you get a recharge, you get to eat supper together, they will probably start sleeping in a little in the morning. As it is now, they are getting 12 hours...yeah, they are ready to get up at 5 or 6. Wow, what an early day with a baby. You will wear yourself out if you don't make a change in their schedule. I really don't mean to sound harsh, I just think it is so important for you and your family.

Angie

Becky L is right -- it's up to you to require them to nap. Try reading the books BabyWise and BabyWise II by Ezzo for help with all this and more.

Hi A.!

I just wantedto let you know that you arent alone!

I have a 2 1/2 yr old and a 4 month old! My daughter was always a late sleeper until about 6 months ago she started refusing to nap and she would be EXAUSTED by the time 6 came around....then we would put her to bed because she was too cranky to keep up and would wake up at 5 am! I actually had to start making her take naps again!Thats what did it! For some reason she didnt want to take the nap but then would be tired by 6 so what i did was kinda hard to do with a new born but i did it beause i was losing my sanity and fast! I would wear e her out run around let her go outside and play chase her around when i wasnt tending to my son! Id basically get her to use up all her energy then at around 1 after she ate lunch I would sit down with her on the couch or in her bed...We would read quietly and get settled down! Then I would leave.....I put a gate in front of her door so that she couldnt get out and explained to her that she didnt HAVE to sleep but this was her "REST/QUIET TIME" then I would leave....At first wouldnt fall asleep for a while but then after about 3 days she would willingly go down for a nap! Then I started pushing her bed time back to around 8-830 so that she would sleep until around 730.

I think that becuse Your girls are getting all of their required sleep at night(children between 2 and 4 need about 12 hrs total) they dont phyically need to take a nap then they are exausted at the end of the night! So for me It worked wonders....she still doesnt take a long nap maybe a hr to an hr 1/2 but its long enough for me to get stuff done without her in the way as well as push the bed time back by an hr or two! Good luck momma I know how hard it can be to take care of little ones with barely any sleep! BTW HOW OLD IS UR LITTLE ONE? Hopefully he will start to sleep thru the night soon! my son suprised me and started sleeping thru the night at 6 weeks old......even though he was a fussier baby to start off hes pretty much a dream child now!!!!GOO LUCK HUN!

I have 5 kids and have struggled with changing their bedtimes myself. You are on the right track with keeping them up later. It takes at least 2 weeks for your body to adjust to a one hour time change. Think about daylight savings and how that affects you as an adult, it has an even more profound effect on kids. (Just ask any teacher.) My suggestion would be to move thier bedtime by 30 mins no more than an hour and wait one week. The next week move it again 30 mins and no more than an hour. This will lesson the effects on them during the day and make the transition easier for all of you. Also I recommend keeping their bedtime on a "tight" schedule especially while you transition, it will help you and them. By tight I mean at the same time every night start your bedtime routine. At our house at 7:00 the girls would go brush their teeth, go potty, wash hands, get on PJ's. They would get one story each, say our prayers, I would turn on their bedtime CD, nightlite, kiss them goodnight and turn out the light by 7:30. Once they have transistioned to the new time you won't have to keep such a tight schedule. (Unless your girls need it that way. My 2 girls are like that but the 3 boys seem to be able to adapt to schedule changes easier.) When we adopted our girls we had 4 kids ages 5 and under with 3 in diapers so I totally understand lack of sleep, and needing the kids to sleep longer. We actually home school now and I have transitioned the kids to sleep till 8:30a.m.(Most mornings!) I also put room darkening shades behind their blinds. (Dark blankets.) It helps with putting them to bed in the summer when it is still light and it helps them sleep later in the mornings. Hope this helps. =0)

Exhaust them to prepare them for naps. This way they can't refuse. After the exhausting activity, take them for a car ride (sure to put them out) then take them to their beds. This way bed time becomes delayed. Only a suggestion. Hope it works.

Sorry to hear about the sleep deprivation. I see that you say, "They refuse to take naps." No, you are letting them get away with not taking naps. You absolutely MUST stand your ground on this. All of the 2 and 4 year olds I know, or have ever known, do indeed take naps. Every day. Without fail. Children in Pre-K and Kindergarten take naps everyday. You cannot leave it up to them because they are babies, and they don't know that they actually NEED daytime naps.

You NEED your rest, mommy. Explain to the 4 year old how important is it for ALL of you to take a nap. Make it an adventure. Maybe "camp out" in the living room or one of their rooms.

I can all but guarantee you that as soon as they are on a nap schedule they will be sleeping like logs all night and well into the morning. How does 8 a.m. sound?

Take care of yourself and good luck!!!

B.

A., bless your heart. I totally know what you are going through. I have 3 as well and when the third was born my others were 1 and 2 yrs. They are now 5,4 &2 and I hate to tell you that I am not in any better shape now than I was then. However, I have somehow learned to function on basically no sleep.

You are correct, putting them to sleep later isn't the solution for us either. I have quit fighting the nap thing because they won't sleep at night if I am even able to get them to nap (rarity). Lately, I have started putting them to bed at 6:30 instead of the usual 7:30 (easier this time of year) and even if they don't go to sleep immediately, it allows for some rest time. Also, i insist on 1-2 hours of "quiet time" in the middle of the day. THey are allowed to hang out in their rooms or sit quietly watching a video or coloring. It really requires a lot of supervision on my part because they tend to get ramped up and start running again. I have to take the time to make them remain in "quiet time".

This helps with the afternoons a lot! However, it hasn't done a thing for the sleeping at night. Since afternoons are crazy, I bathe them and feed them around 4 or 5:00 - weird, I know, but if they crash and burn, they are ready to be put down. THey can always have a healthy snack later if they make it.

Fans in their rooms will help keep them from hearing what happens in the morning and might help them sleep a little longer, but it is no guarantee.

As odd as it sounds, mine tend to sleep later in the morning if they have gone to bed earlier at night. If they actually go to sleep at 6:30 PM, they'll sometimes sleep until 7:30 or 8:00. Go figure?????

Bear with it - go to bed when they do if you can. Try to remember that they are only little once and you'll miss it - (I have to remind myself constantly AND I also have to go watch them sleep at night to remind me how much I love them).

try putting a tv and dvd player or vcr in there room and let them know that this is there alone time so you can have your alone time. and even though you may not sleep you can still have quiet time ,then join some groups like this
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OneNationRecycling
to see if you can get movies and such. this is my group but Im looking to expand it.
people recycle to help others ,give it away.
here is a few more.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NeighborhoodInformerArkansa...
see if there is neighboorhoodInformer near you. or
freecycle.org.
Another thing to is you can sit down to rest and enjoy each others company by doing some type of art project together.

Hi A.. my girls are now 12 an 9, i remember the days of 'the living dead'. I don't know how long you tried putting them to bed later, but with any change it takes some time. I know having a small one makes life tougher too.

7:00 bedtime for a 4 and 2 year old seems pretty early. I would move it to 8:00 and give it some time.. My oldest daughter was not a nap person.. but I would have quiet time during the day when the mood was quiet and calm and we would lie down and read together. SOmetimes that is enough rest to keep them up a little later.

My other suggestion, if you aren't already doing it, watch their caffeine & sugar intake.. that can mess up the sleep schedule as well.

But number one and most important .. TAKE CARE OF YOU. Get as much rest as you can,,, rest when they are resting! People always told me that and I always came up with something I HAD to do when they were napping... I learned the hard way.. the laundry will always be there... GET YOUR REST!

My daughter used to wake up very early too even though she didn't sleep well during the night! I put room darkening panels behind her curtains, and she began sleeping until 7:00. I would say that if your girls are sleeping 12 hours, that is plenty!!! I don't think you can ask for more than that!

Keep in mind that it usually takes three days to begin a new schedule. If you put them to bed later, try it for a few days in a row to see if it works better.