Help from Daddys & Mommy's on "Poop" Potty Training.

When my son was going through potty training the first couple of times he went poop in the toilet with no problem. However, after a few times, he just didn't want to do it anymore and wanted to use a diaper - only when he needed to poop. We really tried other methods like sitting with him and talking, holding his hand, rubbing his tummy, etc. to help him through the process. Yet, he would just say he couldn't and could he have a pull-up. Rather than have him sit on the toilet for so long (which is not good) or have him hold it in, we put the pull-up on and let him do his business. Then I showed him all the pull-ups and told him that this was all we had. When he was done with the pile of pull-ups we had, then he was going to have to use the big boy toilet. This seemed to work for us (also, we continued to use a "potty chart" where he put stickers up every time he went in the toilet and at the end of the week he got to choose some kind of small toy or book).Good luck!

The way that I trained all three of my boys to go potty (pee and poop) on the toilet:
I placed 1 sheet of toilet paper in the toilet and told them to either shoot the boat or bomb the boat, depending on what they needed to do. I made it a game for them and bet them that they couldn't sink the whole sheet of tp. IMO reprimanding children for not going on the potty does NOT help, actually I believe it hinders it. It's ok to tell them that it's ok they didn't go this time, but that they can try again next time. It does take a lot of patience!

If that doesn't work, once he pooped in his pull up, I would transfer the poop into the toilet with him watching and you guys could wave good-bye to the poop together.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Hi
Kids really respond to positive rewards, rather than punishments and put-downs. Try offering him rewards for pooping in the potty. I use instant gratification of candy and a happy dance. You could also do a sticker chart and let him get a big toy when he gets a certain number of stickers. Hang in there
Good luck

Dear L.,
I am a Psychotherapist in private practice with a strong background in child development and psychology and can tell you without a doubt that the way your husband is responding to your son's fear of using the toliet is emotionally damaging and may be the source of your son's fear of using the toliet. If he gets yelled at, ridiculed (name-calling by his own father) and made to sit on it for an hour, he may associate the toliet with scary feeings and be unable to "go". It is not unusual for a child to be afraid of going "No. 2" - they believe something is breaking or part of their insides are coming out (SORRY! I know that's graphic, but I have heard this expressed)and it is a natural fear that kids get over when it's handled properly by parents. But if they are shamed for their feelings, problems later in life can arise, such as compulusive behavior. Your son is NOT "bad" - he isn't doing this on purpose, and to be made to feel like a bad person, or that something is wrong with him, or that he can make his father get THAT mad, are negative messages that he is going to believe about himself (even after this toliet problem gets resolved)and will later need to be worked out. Sadly, he will be working out these messages for a long time, that were never ture about him - that he is somehow a bad person. Your husband needs to look at why this is triggering him so badly. Maybe he had the same issue and was treated the same way. Imagine if you couldn't do soemthing with your body yet, as much as you might want to, but instead of patience, you were met with anger and disgust. It would make it even harder to do, right? There is no way he will be able to "go" while he is being shamed and yelled at. With any issues with our child, we should NEVER say "Bad Boy" (or girl)and should commment on the behavior, NOT the child.
Take your husband to your son's pediatrician or to a therpaist and have THEM explain how harmful he is being to your son and maybe he will hear it.
Good luck...

Biologically, when a human experiences fear their anal sphincter shuts/closes; and especially in small children. The biological consequence of shaming and scaring a child about bowel movements is hardened, compacted feces - which in turn make having a bowel movement even more difficult. Aside from the emotional and psychological aspects of potty training, your husband is perpetuating a cycle of fear and withholding that will not facilitate your sons potty training process, simply on the basis of biology. My suggestion is that you back off it completely with your son and let it rest for a period of time. During that time your husband can and should get up to date information from another person about how to do this. There are many, many people who would be happy to sit down with your husband and help him better understand your son's needs. The author Terry Brazelton points out that it takes around 6-8 steps for any human being to have a bowel movement. It sounds like your husband is focusing on the very last step without supporting your son in recognizing each of the important steps before that (identifying the urge, leaving his activity, locating the potty, pulling down his pants, sitting down, allowing his sphincter to relax,etc.) It takes practice to put all of these things together. It's not about power and control - it's about integrating all of these aspects on the mind/body level in a way that feels safe and comfortable. Your sons issue could simply be that he feels scared when he sees his poop in the potty and/or when it gets flushed. It is very common for small children to feel like their poop is a personal part of themselves and they don't always understand getting rid of it. You should explore how your child feels about

Some excellent advice. I especially found Catherine's response helpful. Read it to your husband. If he refuses to listen to logic,then you can assume he's the individual in this household,in need of help. You need to take control of the situation,before your son is effected permanently.I wish you the best. J. M

Standing or squatting is a natural way of pooping, sitting is not. Are your child's feet touching the floor or dangling in the air when he sits on the toilet? You might want to look into getting a Welle's step (for the whole family)so that he is in a more natural squat position when he poops. http://www.juicing.com/wellesstep.htm

Also, you mentioned that he poops alone with the diaper, and when he is on the potty you read to him. Maybe give him some privacy. He needs to be in his body, not in his head when he has a bowel movement. There are facial expressions and straining and I certainly couldn't get into the mode if someone was reading to me with huge expectations when I entered this very personal state.

I like the suggestion of little wrapped surprises for a successful potty session. Reward, or not, but never punish for something that involves his own body.

Best of luck!

we just went through this. my son has improved so much. i cannot find the article that i read but goodlge "resistant potty training". we forced our son to sit on the potty, too. we did all the things your husband is doing and i felt like the worst mother ever after reading info on the internet about it. it's a mistake. the article and info says that kids should be trained within 3 months b/c they have the control, so they are resisting on purpose. we let him use his potty chair for pooping. this weekend, he finally went on the big boy potty. you have to give your child the "control" back. we even gave him a speech about "you are in charge of your body and the pee and the poop that comes in and out." we are almost done with a month of the chart and rewards and it is working.
good luck!

If I could sit down with your husband right now, I'd for staters, give him credit for at least trying. I don't personally know many Dad's willing to help during the potty training stage! Second, I'd ask him if he wants a son with bowel issues? What he is doing is a recipe for disaster. Your son will start holding his poop and trust me, speaking from experience here.. you don't want to go down that road. Your son will not poop on command. Sitting on a toilet for an hour will not produce a bowel movement!!! In fact, since he had to go and is now forced to go in a manner he isn't ready, he will indeed hold it for your husband. Then he will become constipated, then he'll become so backed up and impacted that his spincter muscles will no longer allow poop to come out w/out the use of an enema or daily use of Miralax or the likes. Sound like fun? Well, tell hubby to keep on doing what he is, cuz' it sounds like it's working!?? Sorry. I got a little crazy there. LOL. Seriously though, your hubby needs an intervention. You must be your childs advocate here. Find literature somewhere that your husband will be open to receive, maybe a visit to your son's ped? Something, please for your sons sake. After what my daughter has been through, I'm very passionate about this topic.

Best wishes,
M.

L.,

The advice would be for your husband, but would he listen? He IS traumatizing your son and sounds extremely cruel. It sounds as though he feels he is doing the right thing by forcing your son to sit for an hour on the potty, but it is NOT working. Your poor child! This is really upsetting to read, especially your son's response.

Do you have a pediatrician you can both talk to, who might advise him that his treatment of your son is far too punishing? Would he listen to that person? The worst part of it is you are not home to monitor this behavior to your child when he is watching him on Saturdays, so he will do what he wants.

Hi L.,

I can so relate to what you're saying. My son was doing the same thing at the same age and my husband was really freaked out about it. All of a sudden, however, (and I do mean all of a sudden!), our son just stopped w/ the pullups and went on the potty - he's never gone back (and he wasn't quite 5).

As for your husband's comments, maybe he needs a professional to explain that saying your son is a "bad boy" re this issue (or any issue for that matter) is harmful to his healthy emotional development. My husband never listens to me either :)

You'll be ok - your son WILL use the potty SOON - and dad just needs to hear this stuff from someone that he will listen to...

Good luck!
D.

Hi Husband to L. C!
I admire your determination to help your son in his transition to toilet pooping. Im 54 , a Pre-K retired teacher. The only thing I see out of place is calling your son a bad boy. He is not. My son was like yours but in a worst manner. He used the pooh-pooh as furniture polish and other times he just hand held his diaper to let it liquidly come out as he walked around the living room. he did this to recall my attention. he had it when I spoke inyto his face lovingly as I could at the time and informed him there was to be no more diapers for him. I told him out flat " since you can pee in the bathroom cup then do what you want with your pooh.BUT you HAVE TO CLEAN IT. BELIEVE ME I moved his hands to help him clean it all only one time. HE NEVER DID IT again out of the bathroom. Take his diapers away. And place the responsability of bathroom duty entirely on him. if he pees alone tell him you would not even bother to go to restroom with him. Also, tell him instead "you are a big boy now and I know you can do it" Do not take step a down or back... keep up the good work! I do not know you. but, Im sooo proud of you!!! And of course of mommy too!

My heart goes to your entire family..

My daughter had an issue with holding poop because of a really bad bout of constipation when she was about 2 years old. She would hold it for a week or more, cross her legs and shake trying to keep it in because of the memory of going when it hurt so bad. (She pooped such a big poop that she bled, and it hurt really bad.) We were in the midst of potty training then, but my pediatrician told me to stop all potty training until the memory of the pain went away. It was a rough road, but she's potty trained now. My pediatrician told me that pushing her to go in the potty, or getting upset about her holding it would not help at all, and could make things worse. I would have your husband talk to your pediatrician about it- maybe hearing it from a doctor would help him see that he is just making things worse. I hope everything works out okay!

I agree with you, NOT your Hubby.
He irks me so much I can't say much I'm so irritated.
Okay, yes your son is 4.5 years old.... "old" by some...BUT your Pediatrician is not worried about it... so, fine.

Now, tell your Hubby, to sit on the toilet, and to poop ON COMMAND, and that HE has to stay there until he does and until YOU are satisfied and deems his duty as "perfect."

Keep in mind, that making a child, sit on the toilet for that long, can be harmful to their system... bowel movements can be affected by stress, pressure, constipation, piles can occur because of the PROLONGED pressure on his anus to defecate.
Here is some info on "piles":
Symptoms:
~ Chronic constipation
The pressure exerted to evacuate the constipated bowels affects the surrounding veins. This leads to piles.
- Stress
Bowel movement is often related to mental well-being. Stress can have an adverse effect on your regular bowel movement, resulting in constipation. This can develop into piles.
~ Wrong bowel habits
Sometimes, people have the habit of straining when passing stools -- ie, applying more pressure then necessary -- which leads to piles.
With everyone chasing the clock these days, defection is many times according to the time available, resulting in incomplete or even postponed bowel movement.

Please, I hope your Husband realizes that name-calling and DEMORALIZING your son is so so so.... toxic on your son.
Luckily, your Mom told you this. Thank goodness... it was being done behind your back.

Take care,
Susan

Hi L.,
I would definitely say that your husband "Shaming" your son into pooping on the potty will not work and will only make him feel bad about himself. I had a niece that did the exact same thing and she outgrew it. Kids sometimes can't express why they are afraid of certain things. Is he afraid of the flushing? Have you tried letting him poop in the diaper and then putting it in the toilet and waving bye bye? I know it sounds silly, but I had a friend who would play a game with her son called "will it float?" Her son was also afraid of pooping in the potty and he thought this was so funny that he played the game.
Remember all kids are ready in their own time and you are right, potty training should be a very positive experience that builds self esteem. Good luck!
J.
www.pottytots.com

Perhaps a parenting class will help your husband. The issue is larger than the poop training. Your son might also be projecting how he feels.

Your son is 4.5? Throw the diapers out. Calmly tell him that there will be no more diapers in the house. He'll cry, carry on and then he'll use the toilet. Ignore his drama. This has turned into a power struggle and you're currently losing. Trust me, been there.

Hi, I know your husband means well, but he is making it worse. I had a similar problem. I used Poo Poo presents. I went to the 99cent store and and the bought little presents, wrapped them up and put them in a large gift bag and put them on top of the refrigerator. He had no idea what was they were. Evey time he went in the toilet, he got one. If he didn't there was no punishment, just no reward. It worked in less than 2 weeks. Good luck!!!

Hi L.,

You've already gotten lots of good advice on the potty end of things, so I'd like to address your husband telling your son he's "bad." Kids tend to believe what we tell them about themselves. If your husband wants to raise a "bad" child, tell himto make sure to keep reinforcing to your son that he's bad!

Since I'm sure your husband is a loving father (it is really commendable that he patiently sits with him for an hour in the bathroom!) and prefers to raise a "good" child, suggest to him that he drop the "bad boy" commentary for EVERY instance of discipline. We always made it clear to our children when they did something wrong (and still do even though one is almost 20 and the other will be 16 in a few weeks) that they are wonderful human beings but their ACTION was inappropriate/hurtful/dangerous, etc. and they would need to take steps, with our help, to correct the action and make amends if there were injured parties.

BTW, have you tried asking your son why he finds it difficult to poop in the potty? He may be able to supply you with amazing amounts of information that will let you help him to help himself complete this last step of potty training. Whenever my kids had/have a problem or got into trouble of some kind, I always asked them why they think the situation occured and what they could do to correct it or avoid it in the future. I started this from a very young age. This has helped them build the skills they need to have to be able to self-correct as they make mistakes through life, which we all do! (I know I've certainly made more than my fair share -- and most of them had to do with child-rearing! Thank G-d kids can be so resilient! ;-) )

Anyway, back to your son... whether it's a fear issue, a control issue, a comfort issue, a privacy issue, or whatever, if he can help you figure out the reason, you can also help him figure out ways to overcome it. What would be great would be to draw your husband into this approach as well. It gives everyone a feeling of accomplishment and that they played a role in the solution, rather than the problem.

My son was a late bloomer too. Your son is going to have to be able to use the potty for school. Okay here is what we did. My son was using pull-ups and it was hit and miss with the poop. My husband noticed that he was very interested in his older sister's new two-wheeler bike with the training wheels. He was four years old and he wanted a bike like his sister. His dad made a deal with him. If he was potty trained and completely dry for three days, he got the bike. Well, my little late bloomer became potty trained overnight all by himself and when he went a whole week doing the right stuff in the right place, we got his bike. He "helped" his dad build it and when he got to ride it, he was the happiest little boy. So, make a deal with your son. Ask him what he wants more than anything in the world. If that doesn't work, then I think you are going to have to get professional help for your spouse and your son, because this could become a very traumatic thing. Give my approach a try. Who knows he might just want some praise from his father.

Have you read the book Everybody Poops. It really worked well with our son. It is very graphic, lots of cartoon pictures of animals and people pooping, but it got the job done. Getting angry will not help. You can't force a child to poop on demand, in fact it makes it worse because they can't relax and let it go. He will get it in time. Good luck. Oh yeah I almost forgot, we also bought him a "poop prize". A toy he wanted. We put it on top of the fridge and eventually the toy won out.

Hi L., I agree with you husband, not the calling your son a bad boy, but the rest.I would not put a diaper on a 4 1/2 year old. The problem is your son is in control, and parents are the ones who are supossed to have the control not the child, there is nothing to be scared of pooping in the toilet, sweetie how is he going to go to kindergarden? I read no books and i had all 3 of my kids pooping in the potty before theyr were 2 and many many daycare kids as well. I would let yor husband take over this task. J.

L.,
My son was 3.5 when we were going through this, he also wore underwear all day long and even slept through the night without any accidents, but did the same thing with going poo-poo. Here is the advice I got and it worked!

Let him know these are some new rules you are going to put in place. Use the last one or two bags of diapers/pull-ups and divide them into 3 piles and let him see the count down at each step!

Step 1 - allow him to poo in his pull-ups ONLY in the bathroom. This is important if he is used to pulling on his diapers and going to a favorite location (ie. closet, under furniture, back in the corner, etc) That was my son, so we did this for about 2.5 weeks. If your son is already doing this, great! you will only do it for a couple of days to prepare him for the next step.

Step 2 - allow him to poo in his pull-ups but he MUST be actually sitting on the toilet seat. This allows him to get accustomed to doing the action while sitting on the seat but keeps him comfortable knowing the diaper is on. I took it a step further and had my son poo in his diaper and we actually pulled down the pull-up and dropped it into the toilet, used wipies to clean him off all right there in front of the toilet. Then he got his underwear back on. I did this for about 2.5 weeks.

Step 3 - Cut a whole at the bottom of the diaper and have him proceed to put the diaper on and sit on the toilet seat.(do not let him see you do this in advance) This time when he goes poo, it should fall straight into the toilet. He will have actually poo-poo'd in the toilet and you can tell him, he's a big boy now, he "blew" a whole in his diaper and is too big to wear them anymore!

My son didn't even get to step 3, after 2.5wks of step 2, he just came to me one morning and said he was a big boy and did not need his diapers anymore!

Best wishes =)

Hi L.,
My son thought going on the potty was scary. He was 3 at the time and we told him no more diapers so he finally went on the potty and said, "that wasn't scary". However, your son is older and he obviously knows what to do but something is scaring him. Making him sit there and telling him he's a bad boy is not good for him. It's a power struggle you can't win. He's in control of his poop. Your husband should say that he doesn't like your son's behavior but it doesn't make him a bad boy.

I have 2 ideas that might help you:
1) Let your son see you poop on the big toilet. If he sees you do it with no problem he may be willing to try. Tell him about how you flush it and where it goes. Did another kid tell him he would fall in? You have to find out why he thinks it's scary. You can keep reading him the books but he knows what to do, he just has be willing to do it.
2) Try an incentive chart. GIve him a sticker for each time he tries to go on the potty rather than use his diaper. After a certain number of stickers (maybe 10) give him a little "prize". This might give him incentive to keep trying to go on the potty or toilet and eventually he'll go. You can also explain that pretty soon he'll be in Kindergarten and they don't use diapers there.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Hey, L....I also have a 4 1/2 year old son who does the same exact thing your son does. The only difference is, I don't have a man in the house so I don't have to put up with that cr*p. You need to tell your husband to back off. The boys will poop when they are ready and I commend your take on the situation. Good luck.

Hi L..... I'm not a daddy, but I can tell you your son's poop phobia is not uncommon. I've definitely heard this one before! In my personal opinion, he's probably a bit too old for you to indulge this much longer, though I agree, he's by no means a 'bad boy', and should not have to be transitioned in a scary or negative atmosphere. If I were you I'd put on my 'positive pants' with both father and son... This should be built up as an exciting triumph for your son! 1st things 1st - get rid of the diapers! If they're not there they can't be used! Not in a drastic way though... if you know a baby you can tell your son " We're gonna give these BABY diapers to..., you're the big boy and... is the baby, he needs diapers". If you dont know a baby you can still build up your son as the BIG BOY who isn't going to need diapers anymore! Explain to your son that this is not a punishment AT ALL! You love him and pooping in the potty is the right thing for a big boy to do. Explain that every body poops in the potty... list names of friends and family, characters from his favorite cartoons... whatever you want - the point is to completely normalize it, as this is stemming from fear your job is to help him feel safe and ok! If you're up for it let him see you do it or show him after in an excited type way "look what Mama can do"
so...
-EVERYBODY POOPS IN THE POTTY
-EMPOWER HIM AS THE BIG BOY... LET HIM THROW OUT THE DIAPERS
-DIAPERS GONE (if you give in on this it will really set you back)
-POSITIVE, LOVE, ENCOURAGEMENT, HUGS, EXCITEMENT
-POOPING IN THE POTTY IS RIGHT! (kids just get that "right" you don't have to go into it's WRONG to use a diaper too much, just that the poop belongs in a potty, it's the right thing to do now that he's big!)

If you are home during the week start on a day you know you can be there to help your son (hopefully a few days in a row... sometimes they can hold it). You might be more patient then hubby, men don't always understand why their 'little' men can't JUST DO IT... We're wired differently and Mamas have a gift for compassion and patience.
I wish you the best, this HAS been done! You can do it too!!!

Hi L.,
You certainly have an interesting dilemma. When will your son be starting kindergarten? If this fall, then you really need to get him fully potty trained otherwise he will not be allowed to be enrolled. If you plan to wait another year, than you have some time.
However, I do wonder what's holding him up? Have you tried talking to him to figure out why he feels he needs to go in a diaper? Is he afraid of sitting on the toilet? Do you have a child seat on your toilet to give him a feeling of security? I know that standing up and peeing vs. sitting on a toilet to poop are two totally different elements of elimination.
Also, to make it a more positive experience have you considered offering him a reward of some sort for every time he poops on the potty? For example when he gets 7 stickers on his chart he can get a toy from the toy store, get to go out for ice cream with mom and dad, etc. If he knows how to control his bowel movements, than maybe he just needs more motivation to move past his fear.