Help! - Rolla,MO

Try a sticker chart and rewards system. Every night she stays in her bed all night, let her pick out a sticker to put on a chart. After a few stickers, let her get a small reward. Then start adding to the number of stickers she needs to get a reward. Then work up to a larger reward after a long stretch of stickers.

Make the big reward something she really wants.

First and foremost, can your husband (or significant other) commit to working with your older daughter? It doesn't seem fair that you are up with both children while he is sleeping through the night blissfully.

If you can move your children into bed with you, that might help you get some sleep as well. My 8 year old was the worst sleeper on the planet (more on that later) but I was able to function because I didn't have to get up and be really awake when she woke because I just put her in my bed. I know many people will claim that it was her being in my bed that caused the sleep problems, but they would be wrong.

Back to my daughter - who never, never, NEVER slept through the night until she was nearly four. Who, for the first two years of her life would wake every single 45 minutes, screaming. I went back to school when my daughter was 2 weeks old - and also did my student teaching her first year of life. I also had a part-time job. My mother was able to watch my daughter for me during the day, but at night, I was alone (her father left when she was 2 months old). So, I hear you about being exhausted on those 1-hour increments of sleep. I once fell asleep while writing on the overhead projector (standing) in front of my students. I would sit down in a comfy chair when I got home and immediately fall asleep sitting up.

But, the good thing is, that it can be done. I learned how to sleep in cycles - and to get naps in during my lunch break. I also learned to follow my daughter's sleep cycle whenever possible - although I never really was able to follow the adage, "sleep when she sleeps." When she was in my bed, I didn't have to fully wake to do the things that she needed - whether it be nursing, comforting, or just making sure that she was ok.

It sounds potentially like your daughter is experiencing night terrors which are pretty common during that age. This was another treat that my daughter brought to our lives starting about age 2 1/2. The most common sufferers of night terrors are children ages 2 to 6. For us, thankfully, these abated after a few years, but some people are lifelong sufferers. If you google "night terrors," I'm sure you will get a lot of information that might help you decide if this is what's happening.

My last suggestion is to talk to your daughter's doctor and see what s/he says about this. It could be that there is a medical reason underlying the sleep issue.

Hang in there!

FIRST AND FOREMOST CONGRATS ON THE NEW BABY! I personally understand how hard it is to have this issue. My kiddos are 4 yrs apart and we went through the same thing when my youngest was born. It could be a couple of things.

1. Night Terrors--You stated that she just cries, does she seem fully awake at this time or kinda like she sleep walking?

2. She may be getting up to check on everything, Some little girls have a mothering instinct even at a very young age.

3. You may also talk to the doctor about it.

4. What changed 8 months ago? did you find out you were pregnant, did you have the baby then, did you move her from a crib to toddler bed? Something may have changed that you may have not conciously realized is having this effect on her.

I recommend No Cry Sleep Solution books by Elizabeth Pantley! There is one for babies, toddlers and preschoolers, and one for naptime!

Amazon link to The No-Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers: Gentle Ways to Stop Bedtime Battles and Improve Your Child's Sleep http://tinyurl.com/8jqusy (Even reading the name of the book begins to soothe your sanity, huh?!)

Or check it out from the library. Good Luck!!

Sylvia,
I share your pain. When my daughter was 2 shewent through a very tramtic incident from renters next door to us. we even ended up selling our house and moving.
what I found that helped herstart calming down at nghts and getting back to a sleeping pattern was spritizing her pillow with Jordan Essentials Lavender & Eucalyptus. When my husband has a hard time sleeping, I will rub some of the Lavender & Spearmint massage oil on his shoulders. As he breathes in the scent it helps him to relax. I have also added this the massage oil to a warm bath for aromatherapy effects.
If you would like some more info visit my website ( yes, I decided to sell Jordan Essentials products to be able to help others) www.myjestore.com/11612

The MOST important thing to do is find a way to get sleep. If you don't you are no good to either of them and you are at risk for other emotional issues. Do whatever it takes. Nap when they nap, have your daughter sleep with you or in your room. I know that may sound like a bad habit but who cares. I'd much rather deal with that issue later than not have consistent sleep now. AGAIN Do whatever it takes to get some sleep. You may already have one of these but they have co-sleepers for the new little one and then maybe offer the floor to your little one. Or even sleep in the room with your daughter and put the baby in there too. Maybe at some point they will be okay just having each other and may not need you anymore. I wish you peace and sleep!! GOOD LUCK.

Given your situation I certainly hope that you are medicated in some fashion to help with your emotional/mental state of mind! There are plenty of meds out there that can just help "take the edge off" and that could only be good for everyone, not only you. Regarding your 3 year old, perhaps she is acting out b/c of the new baby? I've never had this problem as my 3 year old sleep like a rock, luckily. I really just wanted to suggest that if you haven't gotten a script from your ob that maybe you could, it can only help.

You have gotten a lot of great responses. IF you have ruled out anything medical then it could be just the changes going on in her life. Also does the new baby sleep in her room? If it does it may be waking her up when it is hungry or needs changed. I would try making sure she has a soothing bath right before bed if she doesn't already. I would suggest a warm cup of milk before bed or even a snack of turkey. They both have natural sleep aids. But if all else fails you could try giving her some melatonin. Not a whole pill but a quarter of one. It would be enough to help her sleep through the night. Just disolve it in a drink before bed.

My oldest didn't like sleeping in her bed at that age(she was a good sleeper to for awhile) We moved and it pretty much changed her world upside down with moving and a new baby. I had an extra crib mattress I put on the floor in our room for her to sleep on. I finally got rid of it, and she slept on our floor or in our bed for another year. All of a sudden, she figured out on her own, she was a big girl and she could sleep in her own bed (had sheets with her favorite character on them, decorated the room how she wanted, etc). By the way she is 6 now. My youngest, who is 2, goes back and forth from her bed to our bedroom floor. At night I have thrown a pillow on the floor and she carries her blanket. Some mornings, she is our bedroom, some mornings she is in her bed. Many times I find her on the floor.

You have to find something that works for you to get extra sleep. It may be wrong in everyone else's opinion but if it works for you and you get to function...that's all that matters.

I don't have much because every child / situation is different. You said she was an incredible sleeper until 8 months ago. Was there anything else that changed in the household besides the (recent)new baby at about that time? What about any changes in diet, daily activities? My son had quit sleeping well at about 15 months & it wasn't until I was talking with a homeopathic allergist & putting everything down into a timetable that I realized that was the same time I had completely switched him to whole milk. We treated him for his milk allergy & his sleep changed instantly (unfortunately 6 years later, think of all the sleep I missed, unecessarily!) How long had you quit nursing your oldest before becoming pregnant? Didn't know if it could be the "scent" that's drawing her out of her sleep - I've just read articles regarding this, no hands on experience. You can also try a chiropractor, they even have pediatric ones, sometimes an adjustment can make all the difference, if all else fails they can give you seem "natural" sleep suggestions as the others have mentioned. In the meantime, is it possible for the new one to be bottlefed for one night, & someone else to care the kids for one night so you can get a good night's sleep? If so, is there a room far enough you won't hear the kids...you definitely need some rest. Hope you get some sleep soon!

you can try melatonin pills?, they are supposed to work really well for kids who dont sleep (and adults) and they are natural

i feel for you my son never slept a full night till he was 5, and my daughter is following in his footsteps, i have not had a nights sleep in 7 years lol

also at 3, she knows what she is doing, you could try a star chart (im sure you have tried that), ask her why she is waking up, is she lonely?, maybe move her bed into your room for a while, anything to get sleep.

I know that this will be one of the least popular answers you get, but it worked for us.

Our oldest was incredibly headstrong and just refused to go to sleep by himself or stay asleep during the night. Once he learned how to fall asleep by himself, and we discovered the joy of overnight diapers, we put a child safety doorknob cover on the INSIDE of his door (he always slept with it closed anyway), a sippy cup of water on his dresser, and his Glo-Worm in bed with him. And we just let him cry.

Yes, we went in every now and again to make sure that he was okay. But we never held him or comforted him. We just let him cry. We often found him sleeping on the floor by the door in the morning, but he woke up happy.

We also took everything out of his room that he could play with. He was distracted by so many toys and books when he woke up. Now the only "toys" are his Glo-Worm and his blankets. And he does have a fun time with those! But there is nothing else to distract him from the business of the bedroom: sleeping.

Good luck!

I am really late in responding, but thought I would anyway because no one else mentioned "the clock."

First, if you do not want to co-sleep with your children, DO NOT start it now! It will not fix the sleep problem--just change it and if you ever want a life with your husband again, you'll be in this same spot down the road when you try to move them back into their own beds!

My now 3 year old was the best sleeper in the world until we moved her into her big girl bed at 2. That coupled with a new baby made sleeping a nightmare for me, baby and my daughter. We first tried stickers and a night-night chart. It worked so well with potty training, but not so well with staying in bed at night. My doctor suggested that he talk with my daughter. That didn't really help. My parents as teachers person discussed night terrors with me. I talked with my daughter about this and decided that she needed a stronger nightlight. She also felt much more secure when our family dog slept in her room. So now, even though he would really prefer not to do so, he sleeps in her room. It makes her feel more secure. I think this could also be done by a special night-night toy that would "protect." We also now spray "monster juice" all around her room at night to keep monsters away. (We just pretend to spray something in the room. She gets into helping spray and loves it). That helped some too.

Finally, when I couldn't take it any longer, I searched the Internet and found something that has worked for us. I found a clock. I bought it on Amazon. It works as a nightlight and is "yellow" when she needs to stay in bed. Then, at a pre-set time (for us it's 6am), it turns green. When it is green, she knows she gets to wake up. If it is not green, she has to stay in bed until it turns green. So now, we let the dog sleep in her room, we spray monster juice, we set her clock, and we pray that she'll stay in bed.

I'd say this works 85% of the time. After she's stayed in bed three or four nights in a row, she gets a special treat. If she gets up, she gets no sugary snacks the next day (not that we give her many of those anyway, but she's a cookie nut so this really kills her). This combination has really worked for us! It's not fool-proof, but it has been the best thing. The clock is great because she understands the colors and knows that she has to wait until it turns green. We get VERY excited in our house when she waits until the clock is green to get up. We make it a big deal.

We are also very consistent. If she does get up, she does not get the treats she wants the next day. I have explained to her that her actions have consequences (yes, she now knows what that means). I think we don't give kids enough credit--they can learn this. I also think it is learning time for us parents--we need to learn how to make this work and we need to teach our children the importance of sleeping--even when they don't want to learn.

Good luck. This is not a fun thing to do, but be consistent in whatever you decide to do because consistency is the key for these kiddos.

Do also discuss the issue with your doctors. They will be able to eliminate any of the medical problems that some others discussed in responses.

My daughter also did the exact same thing at the same age. She went from a fabulous sleeper to being up 5 to 6 times a night. She wanted the security of me being there when she woke up and when she fell asleep. It was absolutely exhausting. My solution...though not a good one or one that I recommend..was to basically sleep in her bed with her. It did not solve her sleep issue but was a temporary fix to my exhaustion. When I got over that hump I slowly weaned her off my sleeping with her. With a new baby, I don't believe that you can solve all of your issues at one time. Work on one at a time...the first being getting yourself some rest. If sleeping with her or her sleeping with you does that, then so be it. Most may disagree but I don't think right now is a time to deal with solving her sleeping problems. I know that I, myself, could not have done it if I were in your situation and I don't believe in giving advice that I would not follow myself.
Good luck to you!

Hello, My son has not slept all night since he was born he is now 14 months. But i do have him down to at least one time a night. Sometimes he doesnt really wake up he just needs his binki. This is something that I have found out through prayer. Our children respond to us mothers. Your 3 year old may be having anxiety because you have it. I have learned to try to stay clam around him especially before bedtime. See she is frustrated because she sees and feels your frustration.

Once I started to put my son down and I was crying. He looked at me and he was making the same face I was making (we already look a like). It was like looking into the mirror. They are little reflections of us. So I prayed very hard that night. I was teaching my son how to cry when frustrated and that bed time was sad. So no matter what it takes, I smile at him and we sing quiet song to ease his spirits. Lavendars baths help too. I have to calm down. This will also help with the new baby.

We have to realize that our spirits are still connected even thought they are out of the womb. We were the closest to them. we know their crys and grunts differently that any one else. She is speaking to you and your heart. She doesn't wantyou to be frustrated and upset but she can't tell you this in an adult way. Today stop and ask God for peace, strength, patience, and guidance. Trust me it works! You have to believe! Try to be calm even through the night. Don't show your anger and frustration. She needs to see a change in you. You can do this. Trust me I understand. I want even getting an hour with breast feeding etc.

First of all, my hear goes out to you- that sounds terrible. Have you ruled out ear infections or another medical issue? And is your daughter getting enough sleep? A lot of sleep walking, talking, and other disturbances in children are caused by over tiredness/ sleep deprivation. At 3 years of age, she should probably get between 11 and 14 hours of sleep in every 24 hour period, and most likely, still needs a nap. I highly recommend Dr. Ferber's sleep book, he deals specifically with children's sleep disturbances very well. Also, you could go see the sleep Dr. at St. Lukes' Pediatric Sleep center. I can't remember her name right now, but I've heard great things about her. Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this.

Have you switched her crib to a toddler bed yet? If not, I've got two words for you: Crib Tent! My daughter will be 3 in June and realized that she could crawl out of her bed about a year ago. We had initially bought a crib tent to keep the cat out of her bed, but we ended up not using it. We'd just shut her door to keep the cat out of her room at night. Once she realized she could she'd climb right out of bed, open the door, and either come get in bed with us or stand at our door yelling until we came and put her in bed with us. At first it didn't bother us too much, but then she'd wake up before my husband and I and would take all the clothes out my dresser drawers, take all the jewelry out of my jewelry box, dump all my make-up, spray perfume everywhere, and so on. I put a gate at our bedroom door to keep her out for a reason! There's just too much stuff she doesn't need to be messing with in our bedroom. Finally I got wise and actually used the crib tent as it was intended. The first night when she woke up and realized she couldn't get out she was angry. I came in and checked her to make sure that she was okay, changed her diaper, and explained that nighttime is a time to sleep. She told me that she didn't want to sleep. I told her that that was fine, she could just sit quietly in the dark and talk to Elmo because I was tired and wanted to sleep. I got one of her Elmo dolls and put it in the crib with her then I went back to bed. She fussed for about 15 minutes and then she went back to sleep. The next night it was the same deal, I came in and made sure she was allright then I went back to bed. Byt the third night, she didn't even fuss. She was asleep again before I even got her diaper changed. It's been almost a year now and she wakes up maybe once a week. I always respond to her when she wakes up so that she knows she's not alone. As hard as it was (is), I never give in to the urge to let her come sleep with us. It's amazing what a baby can do when the baby has no other choice! She sleeps with Elmo every night now and since we zip up the tent, I leave her bedroom door open. I never liked closing her bedroom door in the first place. I just liked closing the door more than I liked the idea of the cat waking her up in the middle of the night by jumping in her crib and/or playing with her toys! We make sure to put away all of her toys that the cat likes before we put her to bed. My husband wanted to switch her crib to a toddler bed the first time she climbed out. I'm so glad I argued not to. Now I can go back to sleep easily because I know she's perfectly safe and sound in her own bed and there's no chance that she's up climbing shelves or trying to shove metal objects into electrical sockets! Good luck.

Hi Sylvia-
Right there with ya girl (except for the new baby part, thank goodness)! Our almost 3 y/o has never been a good sleeper and we've been trying a mix of Ferber and supernanny (he's used to falling asleep in our laps, so he wakes up in the middle of the night and falls right back asleep as soon as we pick him up, but won't do it on his own), and I thought we were progressing, but the last couple nights he's been up like 6-8 times!! Anyhow, I have no answers but empathy, and will read yours to get some help for us! Best of luck, and congratulations on your new baby!

try melatonin . i have 4 kids and 2 who take it . it will not hurt her. you need sleep .

Sylvia-

first and foremost, I feel for you because I am going through a similar yet different thing at our house. Our 2.5 year old has never been a great sleeper but I have an almost 5 month old baby now so I decided we HAD to do something different to get her to fall asleep on her own at night (we were sitting in her room until she'd fall asleep).

That being said, we co-sleep when it's needed. That means my son nurses then if he wakes up when I put him back into his cosleeper, I put him back into our bed. When my daughter wakes up, I yell to her to come into our room and our bed.

it may not be the 'ideal' solution but it allows me to get more sleep because I'm not up every time she yells and wakes up (instead I force her to come into my room by just saying "I'm in bed, come in here!" and sometimes she'll just go back to sleep).

I've heard of the melatonin thing and may bring it up to my doctor too. Some kids are just not good sleepers - they are born that way so there is really no telling what will and wont' work until you try.

But I hear you about not sleeping more than an hour or two in a row. I'm up to about 3 hours in a row and that's about all I get before someone wakes up!

My husband works nights so I can't really rely on him until after 1am (which still is a big help, however if it's my son waking, I nurse him back to sleep and more often than not, my daughter wants ME!).

Good luck, hang in there and this too shall pass!

Go see a pediatric sleep specialist and they will help you sort out her sleep problem.