Help: 16 Mo with Raging Temp, Febrile Seizures, and Lack of Pediatric Help!!!!!!

Take him to the ER!! Don't leave without answers! When he's better, RIP THE PEDIATRICIANS OFFICE A NEW ONE! I'm so sorry you're little man is ill, I wish him a speedy recovery. Stay calm honey. Something is still not right, do not leave the ER without a diagnoses and treatment plan you're comfortable with. Best wishes!

ok... I want you first to take a breath.... I know what it is like to have the adrenaline pumping and to have a sick little sweet pea. first know that febrile Seizures are very common in little kiddos 2years of age and younger. Even though they appear VERY VERY scary, they actually do not cause any harm. My daughter use to have them (many many) and I know how it feels as a mom. The onset of them occurs not because of the high degree of temperature, but it has to do with how fast the fever rises. So the key is not only to keep him cool but not to cool him down too quickly to have it to rise quickly again thus setting off a seizure. Right now, keep him in only a diaper and that is it. Keep him hydrated and just love him. There is nothing anyone can do about viral infections beside waiting the course. To be honest this is almost certain this is what it is and I personally would never put my child through a spinal tap or blood cultures unless I really suspected it was something else. These procedures hurt really really bad and the spinal tap has many risk. All to come back negative.... I know parents do not like to hear let nature run the course, but that is what needs to happen. Many parents are not happy unless they leave the doctor with medication in hand and thus many doctors give RXs just to keep the parents happy and thinking they are good doctors. This does more harm to the kids but I guess it makes the parent's psychy better.
All the "blood work" will show are elevated WBC's which will indicate a virus. Also know that for him to be disoriented after a seizure is very normal. Postdictal periods can last anywhere between 1-4 hours. I am actually impressed he was able to even say "Mama". Most kids just go into a really deep 2 hour sleep.
So the bottom line of what I think.... 1) The doctors handled the situation correct. My kids use to spike as high as 105.8. 2) Dress him in a diaper only and nothing more than a sheet over him when sleeping. 3) Push the fluids even a tablespoon at a time. Do not worry about eatting or calories. Just hydration. Freeze juice and let him suck on it in icecubes on a stick. Give him popcicles and freeze pops. All the juice he wants. 4) Watch his diapers. As long as you are getting 3 diapers a day, I would not worry. 5) Sleep near him at night to listen for any breathing problems or seizures. Just make sure he is not sleeping in between two people at night. Sleeping between you and your hubby will over heat him. 6)Wait it out unless he starts to have problems breathing or does not regain his airway after a seizure. Then call 911 you get in then right way ;)
Know viruses usually run the course in 5 days give or take a day.
If it is a virus causing this (I believe it is), it will not become anything else. They do not cause anything more dangerous. No he is not himself. No one is themselves when sick. Give it a few days and he will be back to normal. Here is a ((((HUG)))) for mom!

Honestly, what the pediatrician said sounds right to me. Kids have really high fevers sometimes from viruses. Nothing bacterial that they checked came out positive. Some kids have these febrile fevers for no reason. They usually outgrow them, but sometimes it takes a while. They can still have them each time they get a fever but they don't cause any damage to the child. It's very scary and hard to go through, and don't feel bad about taking him to the ER if you can't get the fever down, but there's really not much they can do other than what you've been doing. It's just a waiting game. So sorry he's sick, but you are doing GREAT Mom!

My daughter had her first febrile seizure at 14 months and had to have ALS meet the ambulance on the road to give her valium to stop it, it had lasted 45 minutes. She is totally fine though! Her last one was about a week into kindergarten. Anything that can spike her fever will cause a seizure for her. They have done all types of tests, and Children's is AMAZING! We were seeing a neurologist there and they really have no clue what causes they for her besides genetic predisposition (both my mom and husband had them as children as well.) If she gets sick, we immediately stay on top of Tylenol and Motrin every 4 and 6 hours respectively. I probably always will for all of my kids out of fear. Try to get him to eat popsicles, drink pedialyte or gatorade, play in the bath, etc...keep him dressed in as little as possible (we do a tank top and panties for my daughter) and keep fans on her. If you are still very concerned and can not get it down, go back to CNMC...do not let your pediatrician make a no deal out of this. He is your baby and you know best. We switched Peds for the same reason!! The new one cares and is amazing. Don't hesitate to go to the ER every time either. My daughter went every time even though they told us not to. I don't care. They can get her the oxygen she needs (my kids are mixed and she turned blue!!) and give her the suppositories that I didnt have at home to bring her fever down.

The febrile seizures are normal, scary, but normal - the key is to get his fever down before he gets to that point - so keep up with the lukewarm baths - even you have to do it over and over again - and keep him hydrated - even if you have to give him water with a teaspoon - just keep "feeding" it to him - the fevers will break and then spike again until the virus has run its course.

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I'd keep doing the tylenol and motrin and give him juice too. If he won't drink, he needs to probably go to the ER. It's important to keep him hydrated. I was super sick recently and was sure I had strep and bronchitus. I was miserable and they said the same thing. It's viral and to let it run its course. Said the same thing when my 1 month old was sick. Good luck and I hope he gets well soon!

I agree with getting him to an ER.

www.askdrsears.com

Look up fevers...he has very sound advice on when to panic and when not to panic...when to go to the ER and when to wait it out.

The "high" numbers of the fever say 105 degrees, does not mean your child is sicker that a child running a 100 degree fever, depends on what the child is sick with a cold or say pneumonia.

If you can keep the fever in the 101 to 102 range that is fine...the fever would have to reach like 106 or 107 to do any damage.

Push liquids and keep an eye to make sure he doesn't become dehydrated...then he might need some IV fluids. Once again on Dr. Sear's sight he explains different stages of dehydration...and when to panic.

HUGS!!

Your doctor wasn't being exactly truthful. There are medicines called "anti-virals" but I don't know much about them and I've heard that it's kind of hit or miss. However, you may be desperate enough to try them. I know I would be. Talk to your doctor again. Get a second opinion. Go back to the hospital if you feel you need to. Don't give up. Keep fighting for your baby. Don't let the doctors fob you off with lame excuses. Demand blood-work. Your doctor saying that it is viral is a guess. Most diagnoses are a guess. Tell your doc that you want a full spectrum blood analysis done pronto. Don't take no for an answer.

If it will make you feel better to have the bloodwork done, then demand it. I must say I dealt with these types of high fevers with my oldest for many years (starting when he was 9 months) A green runny nose in the morning was a 105.2 fever in the evening...that fast. He too had the febrile seizures from the high fever. I on the other hand got mad because the hospitals & doctors ran so many tests & then came back with it being viral...you have to ride it out. I quit taking him to the ER (I only did twice, once his ped. told me to & the other was because of the high fever & seizure..not a fan of them anyways) because they weren't telling me anything I didn't already know & my fear was brain damage from the fevers as they weren't easily controlled & would last more than 2 days (sometimes 3-5 days). It's your judgement call. If you think you were treated unfairly, then take him back. If you want the bloodwork, then take him back but let them know this is what you want done. Eventually you will either get a Dr. that gives you script you may not need, to satisfy you, or you will get another answer...yes it's still viral or we found something else. Try to eyedropper Pedialyte into his mouth, even a tsp. every 30 min is good. What about sucking on a popsicle,even if its just a bit? Are you giving him enough Tylenol/Advil? My son was big for his age so I sould actually give him more than the package recommended. I wish the best for you!

My daughter used to get what I called 'phantom fevers' there were no symptoms except for a fever between 103 and 104. It baffeled her doctor and me (a natural healing therapist) One time they did a urine culture and found she had a bladder infection, a type that had no symptoms except fever. We guessed it was because some bacteria from a bowel movement found its way to her bladder (she was potty training at the time and having accedents and not telling anyone) The other times we found no cause, but I did use Reflexology on her feet and it brought the fevers down within 15 to 30 min. There are points in the middle of the pad on the big toes that control temp and fluids (pituitary/pineal point); the right toe controls fluids in the body, the left temprature. Work them both because they are linked. Just take your thumb and lightly press it in to the middle of the big toes, roll it around, massage it. He may object at first, but it won't be long before he wants you to do it. My little girl hated it at first, now she askes me for it. BTW, these points work on adults too and are good for controlling night sweats and hot flashes too. Good luck!

By any chance did anyone check his ears? The reason I ask is that my daughter had a temp over 105.2 and we were told the same stuff only to find out the following day that when our peditrician checked her ears she had a double infection. Once on the medication the fever was gone in no time. It's frustrating when you see your child suffering and we are basically helpless in a sense, but the people trained to do what is necessary don't because this is the way it is. Good luck!

Have they did a Urinal Analysis? My son went through almost the same thing when he was 10 months old, after all the tests, pokes and prodes, he had a Urinary tract infection.

My daughter had a similiar symptoms at about 14 mo. Thankfully the ER was right on top of it and said it is VERY common when a child has no other symptoms than a HIGH fever for it to be a UTI. They did a urine culture and sure enough that's what it was within 24 hours of antibiotics for the urinary tract infection she was fever fear. I have also been told by a pediatric urologist, ALWAYS make them do a catheter, not the bag cover type. The bags can easily be contaminated and give false results. Good luck and I hope your lil man gets to feeling better fast

Take him to the ER then find another pediatrician! You need to find a neurologist. While at the ER ask for neurologist recommendations.

I know this b/c two of my neighbors have children that have these seizures. The fever causes the seizure - even without a virus. From what my neighbors have told me, the seizures will not have long term effects, but it is scary none the less.

Stay calm, take care of your baby and yourself. Do the research and find the right doctors - don't stop until you are comfortable with what you are being told.

Okay, sure nothing can be 'done' for a viral illness. In other words, no antibiotics.

But, they can help assuage the symptoms/dehydration/fever etc.
AND if he gets worse, you take him to the ER.
He can get IV's... they can keep him for observation...
Is he pooping or peeing normally?

have him drink cool liquids, popscicles, smoothies, ice cream, Pedialyte, etc.
Put ice packs under his arm pits/under his knee pits, and forehead.
Put him in a COOL bath.
Alcohol rubs, can cause poisoning. Be careful of that. It gets absorbed into the skin. Do NOT do this.

Motrin and Tylenol.

Do not over-heat him.

I would take him back to the ER.

I would think they can/should do blood work.
Next, how do they know it is a "viral" illness... and not a bacterial infection of some kind?

Ditto.. give the tylenol & ibuprofen TOGETHER.

They have different modes of action, so they're totally safe to take together. Same token, if you call the 24/7 nurses info line they can give you the correct dose for her weight (the box lists the low dose per weight... they can give you the *actual* max dose per weight.

If you can't get the fever down below 103 doubling the 2 up + cool compresses on the back of the neck and eyes, OR if she's dehydrated or lethargic, drive into Children's. The won't be able to cure "it" if "it" is a virus, but they'll be able to give her an IV and monitor her.

But double up the ibuprofen & tylenol (and get the correct mass dose) right now.

Ice chips (take some ice cubes, put them in a plastic bag and wack them with a hammer -or a rock, can'o'campbells, anything hard-) will help with the dehydration. So can a clean cloth dipped in cold water or gatorade for her to suck on.

But if she's dehydrate or "rag doll limp" at any time. Take her in. An IV hurts, but the instant hydration is WELL worth it. And it's not as bad as stubbing your toe. And you don't get any benefit out of stubbing your toe.

I am with the previous poster, you should take him to the ER. Especially because he is not eating or drinking. The temp alone is too high for a small child. My daughter also had febrile seizures. Every time she ran a temp she took a bath, had cold rags on her forhead, and we alternated motrin and tylenol every 2 1/2 hrs, my peditrician even recommended giving her just a tiny bit extra of tylenol or motrin. Thankfully she did not have one after the first one, but the first one was scarey enough that my oldest daughter still remembers and she was almost 3 at the time.

Take him or her to a different hospital ASAP!!

I agree - doctors are not infallible, sometimes they miss things. You are the mom, you have to be the champion of your little guy. You obviously know something is not right. I would go to the ER and DEMAND a CBC (complete blood count) to rule out anything really serious. Only then would I be able to relax and take the advice of hanging out at home and letting it pass. Bloodwork normally takes a few days but I bet the lab at Childrens processes it much faster.

I'm not a doctor but maybe it could be Roseola. I had a similar experience with my son when he was 18mos. He had a 101-102 fever for 2 days and then came down with a sudden high fever (no febrile seizures). I took him to the children's ER when his temp got to 105.2 and he was acting dazed. They did nothing but a strep test and gave him some Tylenol and a popsicle. I was told that it's safe to give Motrin and Tylenol TOGETHER to bring the fever down and to expect that he could have febrile seizures but not to worry. Obviously I was VERY worried so I took him to the regular pediatrician the next day when the fever continued to be above 103, he lost his appetite, and started having diarrhea.They said that I would have to wait until he had a fever for 5 days before they would suggest further testing. I just continued to offer him fluids and whatever food I could get him to take at home. I was able to control his fever with Motrin/Tylenol and it broke just before 5 days. A week later he broke out in a rash all over his body. When I called back to the pediatrician, they diagnosed it as Roseola.

**You should never use rubbing alcohol to bring down a fever. It is easily absorbed through the skin and can have toxic effects especially on a small child. It's better to do frequent baths and offer popsicles and cool drinks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/health/07real.html

You have to get him to the ER now....Maybe go to different hospital even if you dont have insurance your baby is so important! please let us know, i'm praying for him!

I also would take him back to the ER.
They won't be able to do anything for the viral infection, but if he is still disoriented, weak and not drinking he is probably dehydrated and needs IV liquids.
These high fevers in combination with febrile seizures are indeed quite common in toddlers. It might even turn out to be roseola, which is a bout of very high fever, followed by a skin rash. Scary - but common.
However any symptoms of dehydration and refusal to take water need to assessed and addressed.
Good luck!

go to the er asap and make sure they do all kinds of tests (maybe go to a different ER??). when my son had a febrile seizure and couldn't breathe well without an oxygen mask, they tested his blood for infections and did a spinal tap for meningitis. it was overkill and it turned out to be RSV - a viral infection that we just had to wait out - but the ER was right to do all these tests b/c it COULD have been something else. make sure you get all these tests done asap. so sorry you're going through this...

I would give it another day or 2, and then call again. Ask for blood and urine work ups. Maybe call a different ped's office. And if you are scared, take him to the ER. I know it probably doesn't help, but they say that temps that high in babies aren't as serious as they are in adults. Hang in there, and keep takin care of that baby! You're doin great!

There are homeopathic remedies for high fever if your ibuprofen then acetomenophen thing doesn't work. It sounds weird but I have heard of bathing the child's feet in vinegar to bring down a temp. Also, if your child won't eat or drink, or if he seems dehydrated, you can bath him in water mixed with gatorade and his skin will absorb the electrolytes from the bathwater.

It's ok if he's not eating, but if he isn't drinking.....take him straight to the emergency room. They should listen to you. Babies get very dehydrated very quickly with fever and if he isn't drinking he could get dehydrated even faster. They should draw lab work there and make sure he isn't dehydrated. If he is, they can put an IV in and run a fluid bolus. You are his mom, you know when something isn't right, stand up for your child, because no one else will.

Take him to the ER immediately. If Childrens is near you, go to that ER. Go now!!

I also had a doctor tell me Tylenol and Ibuprofin were okay together. She had me stagger the doses with my daugher - Tylenol, then Ibuprofin 2 hours later, etc, etc. Another thing that sounds crazy, but might help you is when my daughter was around 3, we first noticed that the off brands were not helping her, where the major brands were. A three-year-old can't fake a fever, but we couldn't figure out why the off brands, made with the same ingredients, weren't cutting it. My MIL didn't believe me (can't blame her), and bought her an off brand Tylenol when she was babysitting. She found out I wasn't making it up, lol. Fortunately, Tylenol wasn't having major recalls every few months back then!

My MIL's doctor said that while they have the same ingredients, sometimes they don't get mixed well, so that one pill might have more medicine in it, and another more filler. I have no idea if that is correct, but do know for sure that the off brands consistently would not work on her fevers and the rashes that always came with the bad ones.

So, might be worth trying the main brands if you are using off brands, and see what happens.

I am not a pediatrician, but my daughter had a febrile seizure and we were initially told it was viral. When she didn't get better, they did a urine culture and found out she had a UTI ( urinary tract infection). Once they treated that, she did great. When we were at the hospital, they had done a urine sample and it was negative for the UTI, but a culture is what finally tested positive. Hope that helps! and Best of luck.

My son had the same viral fever for 5 days. It just has to run its course. It sucks but there isn't anything that can be done. Try giving him popsicles and get him to drink as much water as possible.

Febrile seizures seem to be common in boys. I hope he feels better soon so you can also have a peace of mind.

Hi Supermom,

I just saw your post. My son also had febrile seizures. Someone has probably already told you this, but don't do the alcohol rub. That's not good for the baby. Next time just use room temperature water on your wash cloth. Not cold or hot.

How often were you giving the tylenol/motrin? Every 3 hours? Like this?
9am tylenol
12 motrin
3 tylenol
6 motrin
Although I would start with the motrin as it is stronger.

The spiking fever is the most likely time of a seizure. The onset of a fever. The next time you think your baby is acting sick you might consider just giving him a little tylenol so that you catch it.

Start researching pediatric neurologists in your area and don't hesitate to visit for a second opinion.

My daughter did the same thing at 15 months n the hopstial told us it was a viral infection. But she wouldn't eat drink or open her eyes. Took her back to te er n come to find out she had the flu. I would go get a second opinion with kids. Cuz not ever er doctor know a whole lot bout kids. And there's always going to be a doctor that's going to do more forkids then the other one. I had to do this several times with my oldest. Every time she was sick had to take her to different docs. And to this day I still have to do that with her n she will be 4 yrs next month! And every summer is the worst season for her! Good luck to you n lil man hope everything gets better n he gets back to his old self!

My daughter suffers from febrile seizures and the thing that brings it down fast is tylenol suppositories and motrim. I alternate and it works great. I don't understand why the hospital did not do a blood test they are suppose to. My daughter has been in the hospital 3 times cause of this and they always leave her at last over night and do blood work. It can happen again at any time when he gets fever that is scary as hell. good luck

DON'T GIVE UP, def keep taking him to other hospitals other drs. I've seen this many times where the parents don't give up and finally get an answer. yes its frustrating i bet, but you gotta do it for your child. Somebody will listen to you and will help you, eventually. Good luck.

I would also insist on a spinal tap, only procedure that can diagnose meningitis. Has he been immunized for that??

Please get a second and third opinion if nothing changes. Doctors are human and make mistakes too. Is he up to date on his immunizations? Ask for blood titers of any childhood disease he hasn't been vaccinated for. Just to give you a benchmark to compare to...my pediatrician always has me bring my kids back in if their fevers don't break in a few days. Always trust your instincts. Best wishes!

The sad part is... you are not alone. It is becoming the "norm" in hospital care for this type of treatment. My son who has a seizure disorder had this same type of thing happen earlier this year, and they sent him home with a popcicle and zofran to just have the next day him end up with a partial complex seizure. If it happens the next time your baby gets sick REQUEST or DEMAND an EEG! <3 good luck!

have any of the doctors checked him for otitis media or pharyngitis?

You need to take your son to an emergency room that specializes in pediatrics. Screw the referral we're all supposed to get, I know you live in Alabama, but drive up to Mott's Children's Hospital in Ann Arbor MI. They are the best, if your son's fever is spiking up to >104, then he is at risk for some serious brain damage. I wish you luck.

I did not read other posts, but my DD just went through something like this her fever was 105.7 and once it finally broke she broke out in a very bad rash. my dr. also did nothing (and I do mean nothing yours did ALOT more than mine did....he did not even want to see her, but I made him). the reason is that really I guess there is nothign that they can do and it needs to run it course!! I hated hearing that, I was a mess...but it did run course and she is now fine. what we did: I nurse and she wanted to nurse a lot so that helped...push fluids anyway you can...they are more important than food when you are sick anyways, do ice pops/water/ as much as you can juice/water are not the best when they are that sick. I also gave her broth to drink she liked that, we gave her two baths a day or more. she hated them and cried a lot we actually got in the tub w/ her bc we were so worried that she would not do well in there bc she was so sick and did not want to bathe, we rubed her w/ a cold wet cloth (I have heard to not use alchol that it was dangerous) we kept the house cool (fans, ac whatever), we dressed her in a diaper and a cotton t-shirt, we never let her watch tv but it was like tv all the time when she was sick, we let her sleep when she needed/wanted no matter what and the dr. did have her on motrin and tynol. ever 6 hours for like two days...her fever took almost three days to get under 100 and there were times her skin was physically red, it was a nightmare but we got through it and you can to! good luck and i hope this somewhat helped, I know I was a mess.....