Gifted Testing - What's the Risk?

Just my two cents but because it tends to be very obvious when someone is gifted. When it must be pushed, tested, labeled, chances are that child is really average. So now you are calling an average child gifted. Step two, narcissism.

It depends on the school district. Being "gifted" can open up some classes that are more suited to the way they think and fast trick them to be able to take advanced classes.

I am a regular substitute teacher at one of the highest rated elementary schools in our district.

We have a very good program geared toward the gifted children. The children are pulled from the homeroom once or twice a week for small class instruction with the PACE teacher. We work with all of the children to keep a balance so that NO child feels inadequate. It is an ongoing battle to maintain a balance.

However, thanks to many "gifted" children and their parents, we as teachers, do more damage control because some little Johnny's and little Susie's run around with attitude.

The negatives I have seen are:
Gifted children being shunned from the other children because they display a holier than thou attitude toward the other classmates.

Parents of the gifted acting the same way as their children, no surprise there.

My personal take is that all children mature at different ages and levels. I don't view someone in a gifted class as being any better than any one else. For every little Susie or Johnny in the gifted program, there is a little Amy or little Michael in the regular classroom that excel in other areas such as leadership, art, music, etc. Everyone has something unique about themselves.

When I see this behavior, II get upset inside because of the attitudes I see with some ( I said SOME not ALL) gifted children and how in the end, this attitude is not going to benefit them. It is like instructing someone who has never changed a tire to change a tire and they will not listen to what you say because they are gifted and know everything about everything.. Haven't you seen people like that in real life?

THEN, there is the flipside of that behavior when we have the "gifted" child who has to be perfect at everything and we are consoling that child because maybe he/she did not answer all mad minute addition problems in 1 minute and get 100. Or, they are so perfectionist that they spend recess time in work completion to complete work that everyone else has finished on target and within a reasonable time frame. I worry about these children who feel so pressured to perform perfectly ALL the time.

My experience with the specific "gifted" program has been in elementary.

Around here, once you hit middle school and up, each grade has levels. You have the 'regular classes", "honors classes" and "ap and IB classes". The students are grouped within the system that best fits their academic knowledge and their peer groups.

I don't have any ill will toward the gifted program or people involved. My beef is the attitude I witness from some children and some parents.

Honestly, for me it brings to light something that the child cannot control. When you tell a child how smart they are, it's worthless information. Ooooh, you're smart. So? It's something to brag about, like being pretty, but being gifted does not mean that you'll be honorable, a hard worker, have empathy or any other positive trait that can be improved upon.

You can't change or improve upon "gifted." And it automatically implies that they are a success (which is why I think a lot of parents brag about it).

My 12 year old is ridiculously intelligent. But I'd rather he focus outwardly on working hard and loving others than inwardly on how "gifted" or "smart" he thinks he is. He's not special or important because of the mind that God gave him, he can BE special or important based upon the choices he makes and how he impacts this world.

I think that telling kids that they are "gifted" or special because of their minds is worthless. It's a shiny tag they wear, but don't necessarily have to do anything with.

This is my personal opinion, not based upon current methods for testing giftedness or IEPs for gifted children.

If you tell someone they are clever, they tend to become lazy. If you complement them for their hard work, they tend to do better. Telling a kid they are gifted sets up certain expectations and moves the locus of control. This could negatively impact a child.

I'm in the camp of not testing, of letting kids just be who they are, without judgement and comparison.

We shouldn't school based on age, we should school based on developmental level. Some kids read at 4, others at 8. This has nothing to do with IQ. We play these silly games that go against the research. I HS to avoid all this stuff. We think 5 and 6 year olds need medicine because they get distracted. Maybe they wouldn't get distracted if we let them play for 5 hours and only do school for one. I honestly do not think schools are developmentally appropriate, and we are thus creating behavior problems that otherwise wouldn't exist.

I would never tell my child they are gifted. We are all gifted, and once we stop playing these ego and class structure games, all kids will benefit. These games are necessary based on the current structure of our schools, but our schools, honestly, are not designed to educated, they are designed to indoctrinate and make docile.

I think a lot of fear of labeling a child as gifted comes from parental fears that either the child will be teased for being smart, or will not excel in every single little thing and will be seen as a failure by teachers or other kids. Both are misplaced fears, I think. I haven't seen any teasing of kids in our gifted program (which doesn't even use the term) by other kids. And the many kids I know in the program are just normal, regular kids who make mistakes like any others and whose teachers cope fine with that. Kids in these programs sometimes pressure themselves too much to do well academically -- but that is often caused by parental pressure, not by the label "gifted."

Our school system no longer uses the terms "gifted" or "gifted and talented" (GT) and has not used them for some years now.

The term our system uses is not attached to the child as a label: "Susie is gifted." Instead, Susie "is in the Advanced Academics Program." This puts the emphasis on the program, not the individual child. Children test to get into AAP.

Yes, the change in terminology does not wash with some parents, who refer forever to AAP as "the gifted program" and so on. But the change at least was an acknowledgement by the school system that the focus should be on the way the kids are taught and on their aptitude for learning. Some parents would shrug and say, "Doesn't matter, it's still GT," but I prefer to focus on the fact that "advanced academics" is more in-depth, faster-paced teaching. Would every single child in our program test as "gifted" by some measures? Probably not. Did every child test well for aptitude for learning with more depth and speed? Yes. Is the program perfect? No. Has my child had an excellent experience with it so far, and been challenged? Yes.

In our area there is a LOT of emphasis on "who gets into AAP and who doesn't" in some circles, and there are parents who are obsessed with getting their kids in, as if it's a golden ticket to the future. On the other hand, some parents are full of pure hate at the whole idea of AAP and who take every opportunity (usually in anonymous online forums where they can get away with it) to bash any form of differentiation among kids in school. I am not going to try to guess their motivations.

You wanted replies from those who think it's a bad idea to label a child as gifted. I'm sure you'll get them. But I wanted to weigh in as a parent who does think it's important to have classes and assignments that challenge a child at the level and pace that individual child needs. If parents keep kids out of such programs solely out of fear of labeling, or fear of teasing (that hasn't even happened to their child yet), they may be denying their children some very positive experiences.

As for the idea that "gifted" kids run around acting entitled and snobby -- I have spent a lot of time volunteering in school but have never seen the KIDS act that way and my daughter says she hasn't either. I have seen a few parents who pushed administrators for certain things with a great sense of entitlement. But the kids, themselves -- I've never seen that kind of snobbery that someone else mentioned below. I'm sure it's there, and each program and school is different, but I can only go by what my daughter and I have seen.

Well, all I can relate are experiences of two friends.

O. had her kid re-tested several times because she was just SO sure he was gifted. He barely squeaked into GATE the last time. This boy has about 3 friends, timid, and a superior attitude. He LOVES to tell people he's gifted.

The other refused to let her kid participate in GATE even though he tested very, very high the first time, because she didn't want him labelled as the egghead, the Einstein, etc. she feels the gifted label can be just as dangerous as any special needs label. This boy is super smart, popular and athletic and involved. Very few people know he's gifted.

Until I talked to the second friend, I always assumed it was a good thing.

Plus when the kid tests OUT? What do you tell them then?

I worked in gifted education before my current job. My eldest son has never been tested, but I know he is gifted because of my observations of him over the years have made it clear that he is (see below). There are no extra support programs for him and I never use the term to describe him because it can start the comparison mommy wars, which can be really ugly. I do not use the term around him because I want him to know we see him as an entire person, not just what is emphasized by a label. Even writing this here makes me a little worried because I feel like people will think I am bragging, as if I can take credit for my son's intellect. I had nothing to do with it. To steal a phrase, he was born this way.

I was identified as gifted when I was in 3rd grade and was transferred to a different school. I had an excellent education and the label did not harm me in any way. In many ways, being "labeled" gifted saved my life because it got me out of a very bad neighborhood/environment for at least a part of the day. But I also was not treated very kindly by some of the kids from my old school. One girl in particular wanted to get into the program and didn't; she harassed me for quite some time.

Right now my son is in high school. He is struggling because he is bored and kids have a hard time relating to him and he has a hard time relating to them. Now that there are curves in grading for test and things, he is the kids that scores 105 when the average is 80. People are trying to cheat off of him and he is struggling to find a way to say no but to still be helpful. He cannot fathom the idea of cheating and I am sure he comes off as arrogant when he tries to explain why he won't let them cheat: Imagine a 14 year old saying something like "But if you don't do the home work, how are you going to learn how to diagram complex adverbial phrases?" Yeah, not very cool. He assessed into college-level English and has started to take online classes at the local college and he is blowing the curve in that class too.

He is very bored in some classes and last week did a physics problem on the board while the teacher did a basic review. Even he was shocked that he could do the problem, but it just made him seem more out of place. Kids aren't mean and he does have friends, but none that really "get" him. He thrives in environments with other kids like him (state science fair, academic summer camp), but those opportunities are rare.

After he did the physics problem, his teacher, who has a background in gifted ed, a degree in physics and is a patent attorney, told me that he is "one in a million" which is great, I suppose, but to be honest, it is also really, really stressful and kind of overwhelming. Many parents of this kind of gifted kid, when they are being really open and honest, would share this view too, I think. To be honest, I have tried to downplay his intellect/intelligence, but now it is just sort of exploding out. He is much, much "smarter" than both my husband and me.

Both my husband and I work long hours and to be honest I feel like I am failing my son because I am not providing him with the support and outlets that he needs. His brain is always firing...he does not know how to pace himself, so what should be a fairly simple homework assignment can turn into an epic project because HE makes it like that, in part because he is so fascinated with learning and testing and questioning. He is often distracted and has trouble with basic, common-sense things, which can make life very stressful for all of us. Getting him out the door for school is still sort of like getting a toddler ready. I will be expecting him to come down stairs so that I can get him to school before I then go to work. Twenty minutes later I will finally barge into his room and see that he is not dressed and that he is watching internet videos on Higgs Boson, oblivious to the fact that he is making another person's life very difficult. He is also a wonder, funny resilient son, but these challenges are very real and do create problems.

I am not sure if I even answered your question, but I very much appreciate that you gave me the chance to take a few minutes to process all of this...the last couple of days have been very hard. I will leave you with this: truly gifted kids should be considered "special needs" kids because there is a real potential for them to encounter serious difficulties (high drop out rates, self-harm, drug use--behaviors that can result from boredom and from feeling isolated). So, in that sense, being aware that your child is gifted can be good because you will know to keep an eye out of those challenges. At the same time, it should not be seen as the only aspect of a child that matters. I have seen many, many parents do this. Things like introductions that go like this: "HI, my name is Jane. My daughter Emma is gifted,;we have known since she was 18 months..." This kind of behavior isn't good for anyone, especially the kids.

My state has no funding for gifted & talented programs in public school, so we don't have G&T testing here. Some districts fund G&T programs but most don't.

I guess the way I see it is that the lack of G&T programming isn't an issue because I have come across very few kids who would unequivocally be considered "gifted" to such a degree that they can't function in a regular classroom. For most kids who are simply a little advanced of their peers, differentiated instruction that allows them to work at a more rigorous pace is fine. In my district, each grade has appx 300 kids in it. Maybe one or two kids is so bright that the student needs an advanced curriculum. For example, my 10th graders have a boy in their class who was taking high school AP math and science in middle school and a few days a week, he now takes classes at a local college in the morning in those subject areas and does the rest of his coursework with his peers. To me, that kid is "gifted" while the rest of the "smart" kids who can handle a lot of honors and AP classes are not gifted per se, just advanced students.

What tends to happen here is that kids who have behavioral issues get tested either by the district or a doctor and some of those kids do show advanced IQ or advanced aptitude in some areas. So those kids may have the "twice gifted" issue where being exceptional in certain academic areas (or music, or arts, or whatever) comes with having disabilities in other areas (attention, social problems, sensory issues, etc.). Those students would be put on an IEP or accommodation plan for whatever is causing them to have behavioral problems while receiving differentiated instruction at whatever their level is in a given area of study.

What I see a lot of here is parents who say "my child acts out in school because she/he is gifted and bored." That may be the case for a few students, but certainly not with the number of parents I've heard say that. Sometimes kids act out in school because they're obnoxious and immature (one of mine falls in that category). If that many kids are "gifted" then we need to raise the bar on what is considered "gifted" and raise the bar on instruction in general so that the standard curriculum is challenging enough for kids who are "smart," but let's not call every smart child "gifted."

Anyway...I know that it's not what you were looking for per se, but figured I'd weigh in with some perspective from a part of the country where this kind of testing and labeling is generally not an option. Here, students who are truly "gifted" would generally get noticed by parents or teachers and accommodated via a special course of study or a referral to a charter school or exam school if there was one in the student's area.

I don't know if I think it's a bad idea to "label" a kid as gifted. If we had G&T testing and programs available I wouldn't prevent my children from being tested to qualify and participate if they did qualify, but I'm fine with the fact that testing and programs are not available here.

Here is the risk: that your child takes this as a sign that he or she is dumb or a failure. When my nephew did not get into a gifted program, he beat himself up about it. So while I will be encouraging my DD to test for a magnet program, I will also couch it as "This is just to learn more about you and figure out what classes you should be in. It isn't something you pass or fail. It doesn't mean you are good or bad. It's just a way to understand how you learn."

She passes? Great. Good to know. She doesn't? Then we know she's already in the right class.

I was tested gifted and took GT and Honors classes in most subjects. I did NOT in Math because I was not gifted with numbers. I am no better than my sister who "only" took college prep courses (and is now an Accountant, so she got the number skillz).

If you label a child, make sure the label is just one sticker on his head, not who he is. I think that applies to any label. My nephew was similarly not wanting to be labeled ADHD and subsequently did not get some of the resources that could have helped him. A label should just be a tool.

ETA: When my mother was in college, she was told that "gifted" is a learning disability in the sense that the child learns differently than other children. It's kind of a matter of perspective. There seemed to be two main categories of classes for the AP students. One set were smart but distracted (and not always working to potential) and one set were perfectionists, crying over a 97 on an AP Calculus test. I had a teacher refer to us as "crabs" because we brought each other down, like crabs in a cook pot. Sometimes we were also socially clueless and lacked the common sense even our peers managed. I have a friend whose son is off the charts...but struggles with maturity and the classroom setting. They constantly weigh his academic needs with his ability to participate in class. Etc. They needed to get him tested to try to find the best way to meet his needs and challenges.

The flip side is, like someone else said, many programs are gutted so that there isn't the same opportunity for our children that there was for us. They still have William and Mary in DD's ES, but I'm not sure if it is the same program it was when SD took it. My friend moved her older DD to a magnet program and they admit there isn't the money for the special programs. So sometimes it's "here, your child is gifted...but we can't provide the academics for her."

I think how helpful a gifted program is depends very much on the school culture in your district. Gifted kids have different brains, and while in some circles it is not considered PC to say so, sometimes the issues they face in standard learning environments are similar to those faced by kids who deal with learning disabilities. Gifted kids don't necessarily make good grades (they are easily bored and impatient, and sometimes have trouble finishing tasks they see no purpose to), and are often underachievers because they learn early on that they can just coast through school with minimal effort. Many of them, unfortunately, are told they're gifted. This often isn't helpful, because it either gives them a sense of entitlement ("I'm gifted so of course I'm better."), or it creates extra pressure to perform, which in turn makes them anxious and unwilling to take risks.

Still, I do believe that a well-crafted gifted program can be a real blessing for these kids. I test as gifted and came up through a poor rural school system with minimal services. But from 4th grade on, we had an after school gifted program. It was not there to boost our test scores, and we did not work on the usual school stuff. We did things that went beyond the curriculum. Since the program wasn't taught by a specialist, we learned whatever the person teaching had to offer us, and looking back, some of it was very wise. For example, we learned tumbling and basic gymnastics from our principal, which doesn't seem at first glance to be gifted stuff. But in the process, he was teaching us teamwork. He was also engaging us in something we weren't necessarily automatically good at. We learned how to step up to a challenge, and to accept that just because we were academically gifted, it didn't mean we were going to be automatically good at everything. He taught us how to work at something. That is not a skill gifted kids learn in normal classroom environments. And it is something that is absolutely essential to learn.

A poorly crafted gifted program or one with a toxic culture can do damage. My son also tests as gifted. He went into a magnet program in first grade. I pulled him out after second grade. The attitude fostered by his school was appalling. The message to the kids was that they were above the other children at school. A lot of the children acted like spoiled royalty, and after spending time with the parents, I understood why. Much to my shock, we were at a Christmas party when some of the parents started comparing the kids' reading test scores. And somehow they knew everyone's scores! Also, several moms expressed their sympathy to another mother whose younger child had not made it into the program. (This mother was understandably pissed off at those moms. She values both of her kids.) Those with younger children then started discussing strategies to make sure that siblings tested in. My husband and I left as soon as politely possible, and began to seriously question whether this was a healthy culture for our son to be educated in.

First grade was good because his teacher was stellar and was able to manage the situation, big egos and all. In second grade things went downhill fast. So much time was being spent of classroom management instead of engaging work that my son was bored. He is not a disruptive kid, so he retreated into his imagination and drew amazing comics. He stopped doing classwork. This was never brought to my attention - I discovered it when his language journal came home at the end of the term. He had top grades and test scores all the way through. He shouldn't have, based on the work he wasn't doing. I think his teacher was simply relieved that he behaved well. It's tough to manage a classroom full of little princes and princesses.

I guess what I am trying to say is that while it can be helpful to know whether a child is gifted and to be able to approach that child's education differently to address his/her needs, the gifted label is also fraught with hazards, many of them non-academic. Whether it is worth getting your child tested and into a program very much depends on the quality and culture of the programs available in your district. To find out more, the best thing may be to talk to as many people as you can about the program, and to go and observe in the gifted classroom.

Albert Einstein said "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

I think labeling only those children who do well academically as gifted is a problem. It is too narrow.

My daughter attends a school in a district that has a wonderful gifted/talented program. They look for things other than academic performance in their students. Specifically, they look for general intellectual ability, creative thinking, leadership ability, visual or performing arts ability, and/or specific ability aptitude. So their pool of gifted children is diverse and they enrich the learning of the children in their specific areas of talent. So, if you rock the french horn you get extra music enrichment. If you are excellent at math you get advanced math tutoring. So on and so forth. About 5% of the entire district's student population is in the gifted/talented program.

My daughter is 6. She takes part in the gifted/talented program. No one has ever labeled her as gifted. All she knows is that she sees a different teacher a few times a week to work on 'special' work.

The program has worked so well that the school district is moving toward doing this for every child - finding their strengths and weaknesses and making more individualized education plans for each student.

I don't think it's bad to be identified as gifted anymore than it's bad to be identified as someone with a learning disability.
(There is also nothing wrong with not being gifted or not having a learning disability.)
The parents need to downplay the results of the testing so expectations are not built up about what the results mean.
The identification should help with finding ways to help the child flourish and grow.

However - gifted programs through elementary and middle school are often a joke.
The focus tends to be how to keep the whole class in lock step and not get too bored with the pace while preparing to take SOL's (and once those tests are over I really don't know why they just don't end the school year - it's not like anything happens in the classroom afterward except to count down till summer vacation).
It tends to get a little better in high school.

With a disability you get an IEP and specific help to meet certain goals.
With being gifted you get your budget cut and your program reduced to ribbons.
A parent of a gifted child is really on their own to try and figure out how to keep them engaged and excited about learning.
Do not allow the school to limit what your child can learn.
There is more to learning than what appears on any SOL so pursue it outside of school.

I do not see the down side. In order to use the resources available for gifted kids, the kids need to be identified. If there is a better way than testing in combination with teacher and parent input and a counselor interview, I am open to it. But for now, that's what we have to identify them. ALL children should be provided with the resources they need to be challenged and learn to the best of their ability. For most kids, that means the regular classroom with some degree of differentiated learning can provide this. For kids with disabilities, additional resources are necessary to help these kids maximize their potential. For gifted kids, additional resources are also necessary to let them reach their potential. I see no reason we should try to make all kids conform to the mean.

Also - being gifted is not an excuse for poor behavior, nor for excluding other kids. My son is not an underachiever, is remarkably good at finishing tasks and most of his friends are not in the gifted program (second grade). I think placing kids who are gifted into gifted programs helps them avoid a lot of pitfalls.

I on the other hand did NOT have a gifted program in school and definitely didn't finish tasks, coasted through and always did things at the absolute last minute (I could run for Congress). My brother was also completely bored and acted out in school. Right up until both of us skipped a grade and were where we really belonged academically. The bad habits and behavior resolved themselves with the simple fact of having the right level of academic instruction.

Bright kid and gifted kid and two very different children. One district may think your kid is "gifted"; another just a smart kid. A truly gifted child, stands out in many ways. Personally I would not go that route, but that is just me.

My son hated kindergarten.. I knew he was bright.. so I took him to a psychologist and he had the standard IQ test. he is very bright. but not off the charts. Up to this point I have not shared the results with the school. in todays world of elementary school. the teachers and tutors work with the struggling students to help them pass the test.. but there is no special anything for gifted.

I do not feel the test caused him any risk. I wanted to know where he was at. I feel the test was pretty accurate of his ability.. verbally he is extremely high but in other areas he is more normal.

I have heard that kids labeled as gifted at a young age.. are often not gifted.. they are just ahead of the pack. as by 3rd grade kids level out.

I do not treat my son any different based on the test.. and of course the school does not treat him any different because the school does not know the results.

I just have an issue with the whole "gifted" thing, in general. If so many schools have classrooms of "gifted" students, what does that even mean? I used to think gifted meant exceptional, above the norm, higher intelligence than most others. But if classrooms of kids at numerous public schools in every city around the country test into a gifted program, are they really exceptional and above the norm? Or do they just have parents who actually care enough to make them do their homework and study for tests?

My kids go to a private school where the majority of the students are performing 2-3 grade levels above what the local public schools are doing. Does this mean that the entire school of 300 Kinder-8th graders are "gifted" or that they are able to meet high expectations because they have been raised in an environment where education and achievement are valued, supported, and encouraged early on in their lives?

I really don't care if my kids are labeled as "gifted" so much as I care about the knowledge they acquire, the life skills they learn, and the study habits they develop to help them be adults who have the opportunity to live the lifestyles they wish to have.

And one of my kids, in particular, tests very well in all subject areas in standardized testing every year and has been assessed as having an extremely high reading level for his age. So I make sure he has some advanced reading material available to him. But he doesn't like to read. He likes to DO. He is very curious and likes to experiment and break things apart. Fine with me.

My other child can play piano and guitar by ear and has a beautiful singing voice. But she cannot stand the confines of weekly music lessons and practicing, believe me we have tried. So she just has these instruments available to her to use as she wishes. She plays and creates and sings. Fine with me.

Our oldest tested into the gifted program. I felt kind of ambivalent about it, but I didn't want him to be bored in school. It was recommended by the teachers so we did it. We are not worried about labels. If some other kid wants to tease him about being in GATE then we will deal with this. But our son is very good at handling other kids himself. We are careful to talk to him about not getting too big for his britches about it or bragging or thinking he is superior. We talk about how another person would feel if he did that. He's super sensitive to other people's feelings so we have not had an issue with bragging. His best friends are not in GATE. They don't talk about it among themselves that I can see. And we don't talk about it with the other parents. I feel like it would seem like bragging to some people. We also talk about how everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I am happy for my son that he does so well in academics, but most importantly I want him to be a kind person with a good heart. I am glad my son gets something out of the GATE program. Those are his favorite days at school. I don't really like the term "gifted". To me he is just very good at academics and is very quick at learning new things. I don't really feel worried about him being labeled...being in the GATE program is not who he is and I don't think any other people around here think that either. Honestly, I don't think anyone really pays that much attention to what kids are in GATE and what kids are not. But maybe I'm just not aware...

I have 2 kids who have both been in our school's gifted program. Ours is an iq of 130+ and some other factors.

I don't know why you would think it's a bad idea...

Currently, we have 1 child who participates in gifted classes and another who has opted out and gets their challenges via the numerous AP classes offered by our district. It never hurts to know...and then you know what your options are.

There are those who are put off by it...personally...I think they're jealous. My son was on the football team for a while...everyone knows who the best players are (and my son was not one of those)...everyone knows who is first chair in their instrument in the band/orchestra...so why do people think it's a bad idea for people to know who the top academic performers are? I don't get it.

The bottom line is: that a child develops as a whole.
NOT it being based on, how gifted he/she is or not, or how "smart" he/she is or not.
And tests, will either confirm or not, the anticipated IQ of a child or not.

No matter how gifted a person is or not, that is not the point of one's life.
Nor the "category" of their identity, forever.

The bottom line is: the overall development of a child. As a decent human being. Who's identity is NOT solely derived, by their IQ label.

Likewise, some kids think they are "dumb." And even if they are not, they think so. Because, they are treated a certain way. By their parents.
Their whole "identity" is messed up.
And this can happen with "gifted" kids too.

Then, what about real creative individuals who march to their own drumbeat? Kids like that, are often not recognized. Or ridiculed.

So in all these scenarios, it is about how a child is lead/taught/developed/nurtured/taught to KNOW themselves and their sense of self, or not, and that impacts their identity and how they are as a person to themselves... and to others. And their attitude, toward others. And their sense of working for something or not. Even if they are tested.

And even if a person is genius or gifted etc., it is not absolute. Meaning, they cannot just be a bump on a log and expect things. And things, change.