My hubs works for a large corporation. He does tech support in a call center environment. He has been diagnosed with high blood pressure and since has been on an excellent diet program. His doctor suggests he drink a lot of water.
His company gives 2 15 breaks a day and a 30 minute lunch. But sometimes, you just have to go pee. He has to sign off the phone with the code "personal" during that time.
And the next day his name comes up on a report of people who used personal time and he gets into trouble. I know, its ridiculous. Too many write up and he get a warning and then will lose his job. This has happened to other people before. And he has already had a written warning.
He asked his doctor for a note explaining that due to his dietary needs he may need to pee a little more often. Well, that opened a can of worms. HR is requiring him to fill out FMLA forms for his "health issue" Everytime he has to pee he has to call HR, and they will put those few minutes under FMLA and pay him with unused vacation time. So 2-4 minutes a day, he will be paid from his vacation time. Which is awful when it comes time to take a vacation.
I think this is insane. The time its going to take to call and let HR know he has to pee is going to take more time than if he just signed out personal and ran to the bathroom. Not to mention its embarrassing. He is a grown man, not a child. He has been there for over 4 years and is otherwise a great employee. He has the awards to prove it.
Yes, in a perfect world he could just quit and find a new job. Sadly, in this economy, thats not so easy.
Dont you think its a waste of time and paper to file for FMLA for something so silly. And, if we dont, and he continues to use the bathroom during non-break times, he is going to lose his job. HELP!
My greatest suggestion is that he use his days off to look for employment elsewhere! You are right...it is insane!
That isn't what FMLA is for at all!! It's for when you have a baby and you can take some extra time off for example (up to the employer if it is paid or not) and it's only for 2 weeks if I remember right. Something sounds fishy about what his employer is doing and you guys need to find out what it is!!
Good luck
Shaire
I see you have lots of answers (which I didnot read) but I just used FMLA a few mths ago & they sent me a packet of legal info. I read through it & FMLA has nothing to do with any time he has as vacation time! Thats illegal & he needs to fight back! Employers, once fmla is approved, arent even suppose to ask what's it for. They arwnt even suppose to ask him why! Good luck fighting this, he's got a case.
While in general I think its stupid, I think its great his company has found a way to protect him. As someone who has managed in call center environments, rules are rules- variation leads to complaints amongst the masses and productivity drops. Your husband's boss/management/HR team have found a great way to ensure he can be treated both by the rules, but with consideration for his health. Its a small inconvenience to not be at risk of losing a job.
FMLA is not vacation time as mentioned before, it is unpaid leave. Maybe he can suggest the solution of dividing up his breaks in half and having four 7 1/2 minute breaks plus lunch. Hopefully they will make this exception for him.
Oh my gosh, that is simply ridiculous. I wonder if they do this to pregnant women or diabetics who also have to pee frequently ,or who have morning sickness. I couldn't imagine sending an email to HR for approval to go throw up.
Really though, I would just do it and give them as many uncomfortable details as possible.
HR... going on urine break at 2:17 pm.
HR... returned for fmla medical urine break at 2:19 pm. Urine a little more yellow and cloudy then usual.
LEGALLY>>> FMLA requires the work environment to provide and meet the needs of the employer. I don't know that they would even approve of this, as the paperwork and time used to document every bathroom break is even worth the paycut. And really, will this be filed as a long term disability or a short term disability? His Dr is going to have to sign off on the paperwork too. Technically, FMLA approves leaves during times of disability or family emergency.... not something to be docked from vacation pay. Are they going to approve him to apply for disability for this issue then, since they are making a big stink out of it? I wonder how the govt would feel about this? Is he, unable to perform work tasks for extended periods of time? Is he being discriminated against for having to go to the bathroom? I would say, "yes."
There are a few cases of people disputing employers, one involves frequent urination in which the company punished the employer:
http://www.icemiller.com/enewsletter/May07/Recent_FMLA_De...
"Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, 29 U.S.C. §§ 2601-54. The FMLA entitles any eligible employee suffering from a serious health condition that renders him unable to perform the functions of his position to twelve workweeks of leave during each twelve-month period. 29 U.S.C. § 2612(a)(D). The FMLA makes it unlawful for an employer to interfere with an employee's attempt to exercise any FMLA rights. Id. § 2615(a)(1). It also forbids an employer from retaliating against an employee who exercises FMLA rights. See id. § 2615(a)(2) (prohibiting discrimination against an individual who opposes practices made unlawful by the FMLA); id. § 2615(b) (prohibiting discrimination against persons who participate in or institute FMLA proceedings or inquiries). The FMLA therefore contemplates the interference and retaliation theories of recovery advanced here. See Hoge v. Honda Am. Mfg., Inc., 384 F.3d 238, 244 (6th Cir.2004)."
From here, a larger profiling of the case linked to earlier:
http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/472/472.F3d.471.0...
I think I would probably get a note of his rights from the agency, turn it in to HR and look for another job at the same time.
Oh, a hopeful note for your husband, people who increase their fluid intake and urinate frequently, over a relatively short period of time, their body is able to hold the excess fluid without having to go so frequently. So, hopefully it won't be so longterm.
In a perfect world he could get a different job. but he is facing the same thing many nursing mothers face. He will have to not drink as much water during working hours and drink more when he is off work. He is an adult and shoud as such be able to go for 2 hours without needing to go to the bathroom. I know that may sound harsh but what your asking the boss to put up with is not fair. and while it seems like 2 to 4 minute is not if he is in a job that he is needed on the phone and checking out for random times thur out the day it is a problem for the boss. your husband needs to suck it up and hold it until the proper break times. sorry probably not the answer your looking for.
Yes, this is silly, and the company should be able to accomodate his needs. Also though, it has never been proven that drinking more water than we are thirsty for is especially beneficial for our health - it doesn't hurt anything, but hasn't been shown to help, either. Yes, if you search the internet you'll find many articles on the benefits of drinking a lot of water. But scientifically, drinking more than we are thirsty for has shown no benefits.
If I was your husband, I would cut back on the water and keep my job. He can drink more water when he is not at work.
Just a note...FMLA doesn't pay for anything. It is an avenue of job protection.
Unfortunately, while I don't necessarily agree, I don't think the company is being unreasonable. Your husband took the job knowing the break schedule.
It IS ridiculous that their solution is FMLA, but ata least they've tried to find one.
I would file a complaint maybe with the EEOC, sounds like discrimination to me and look for a lawyer. I cant believe the basic body function of using the bathroom is being denied by their unreasonable hurdles to jump through just to take a pee. Maybe a time or two of going at his desk whether in a bottle or right on the floor would get his point across. I would never work for a place where I could not use the bathroom on my own body's schedule. Where I work we get breaks and can use the bathroom whenever we please. Good luck!
Don't waste your money on an attorney, the company is within their legal right and can do this. Although that being said, it is creating a lot more work for the company's HR dept to do this. I am thinking they are trying to discourage him from drinking the water and by having him jump through these hoops, he will give up and just not drink as often.
They probably have to take a firm stand on this so the policy is not abused, especially in the call center atmosphere. If they allow one leeway they have to allow it to all. My guess is they want to protect their option of being able to fire someone for taking too many breaks.
Unfortunately, companies can pretty much do what they want, specially if they aren't Union backed. Even with Union backing, they can still get away with a lot. From my understanding, FMLA runs concurrent with sickpay/leave, I would definately check into them taking your husbands regular vacation time away, that doesn't seem right. Because going to the bathroom, isn't a vacation.
With the company I work for, we are pretty muched fixed to an assembly line, so we can just get up and go to the bathroom either. We have to have our team cordinator come relieve us and sometime that doesn't work. I also got a note from my doctor stating when I have to use the bathroom, I have to use it and cannot wait a half hour or more (I have bladder issues due to pregnancy...which I think a lot of women do).
Instead of not filling out the FMLA paperwork, have the doctor fill it out. Because then, you don't have to worry about your husband getting into more trouble. And much as it sucks, just play their game for a little while, til you get everything figured out with FMLA and vacation.
How many times a day is he signing off as "personal" time? I mean, he gets his breaks and his lunch. How many times does he have to go?
His doctor recommended he drink a lot of water, but that's not exactly the same as having a note from the doctor saying that he's on lifesaving medication that will make him urinate excessively and he can't help it.
Also, I'm wondering....if it takes him 2-4 minutes to run to the bathroom, does he have to sign out as taking "personal" time? Who would know in two minutes time if he was even gone? He could be on another line or his call transferred to someone else. Correct? That's how it works in some call centers.
FMLA is usually filed by people who need extended periods of time off for medical issues either they or a family member are going through. He's not off-site, just going to the bathroom. But, like I said, how much time in a week or month is he actually spending in the bathroom?
5 minutes twice a day is 10 minutes. Multiplied by 5 days is 50 minutes. Multiplied by 4 weeks, that's approximately 4 hours per month.
If he has to go more than twice a day outside of lunch and breaks, the company is likely adding those numbers up, especially if it adds up to missing approximately an entire day per month.
I'm not saying it's right.
FMLA seems crazy but he claims it's due to a medical issue.
I hate to say it, but as far as I know in my state, if you miss work, you have the option of getting docked or taking it out of your vacation pay.
I've done that. Needed a day off and just took it out of my vacation pay so that I would still get the same paycheck. I couldn't have it both ways and that worked for me.
Your husband isn't a child. That's for sure. If he needs to drink less water during the day because it's interfering with his job, that seems like the easiest thing.
I'm not unsympathetic by any means. Please don't take it that way. I just know that in this economy, employers feel as though employees are a dime a dozen and they don't have to put up with certain things. I'm not saying it's right.
They are offering for him to file for personal time under FMLA and apparently giving the option of using his vacation time for his "personal" needs.
I can see this is upsetting and I hope you get some great responses because I don't really know what to say.
Best wishes.
I think he should suggest to his company that he be allowed to use a chamber pot at his desk.
One of those travel pee bottles will do, too.
He can empty them at his break and lunch times (and at the end of the day).
Alternatively, astronauts wear adult diapers for their jobs.
Maybe your husband can do that.
Depends might be the way to go.
It's better than holding it or dealing with HR because he needs the bathroom more than the company permits.
Tell him to buy a personal/portable urinal and when he CAN get up as part of his 15 minutes - he can just empty it then. Of course, that won't help with #2's...
I cannot believe a large corporation or ANY job would be so petty and jerkish!
I know in TX, we are legally not required to even give the two 15 minute breaks. (We own two companies, I've learned all the ins and outs! Not sure if that is a federal thing, or state thing though?)
That said, we don't have to give any bathroom breaks either. We are only required to give at least one 30 minute break within an 8 hour period.
Maybe there is a way he can break up his 15 minute breaks and lunch break?
Another alternative is for the workers to form a union to give better 'rights' to the employees. That is what they are for, because so many companies to have such crazy rules! Either everyone will get terminated at that point and they will find others who don't mind the rules, or the company will work with the workers in an effort to keep them as trained assets.
My sister and husband used to work for a company a few years ago that was like this. Can he not sign off at all? Wont the phone call transfer to someone else to pick up? I would just go to the bathroom. Either someone else gets the call or it is missed. Companies like that are terrible. You are supposed to make your employees want to work for you.
Unfortunately it sounds like your husband is paying the price for the ding-dongs in the past who have taken advantage of and abused the system for their lazy or selfish needs.
Has he really discussed this issue with HR? Not so much his need to pee, but the fact that the company is asking him to us FMLA time/call HR every time he needs to use the bathroom? I mean, imagine if every person in the company were required to call HR every time they had to go to the bathroom and it was't break/lunchtime?
Legally, this seems insane, but I too would say they are within their rights. I agree with a prior post, do they make every person who needs to go to the bathroom when it's not break time use FMLA - like pregnant women, etc. If not, then techinically they are descriminating against your husband.
So if they are requiring him to use FMLA time to use the bathroom, overall I think you should seek other employment. I understand that's easier said than done, but who wants to work for a company like that???
You don't mention the frequency/amount of time he's spending "logged off" to deal with this issue. Apparently his company thinks it's too often if he's gotten a warning.
Since he's "on the clock" and they are using his unused vacation time to pay him, it sounds like he's an hourly employee. And as you pointed out, this is burning up his vacation time.
Perhaps the only other "solution" if HR is not willing to allow pee breaks without jumping through hoops, is to instead have him use his "breaks" and "lunch" time to include peeing. So maybe one 15 minute break, 20 minutes for lunch and then he'll have 10 minutes left over from lunch and a 15 minute break to use for his "pee time". That'd be 25 minutes PER DAY instead of using up his unused vacation. Or he could eat at his desk and "work though" lunch a few times a week so he can have 90 minutes to use throughout the week - however that pushes the legal limits then of him not taking enough "daily" breaks/lunch.
As insane as this all sounds, I think if your husband is willing to discuss this with an HR manager and they won't budge then at least he's offering up some viable solutions so he can save his precious vacation time.
In the meantime, if he's really upset about this...you can always contact the Federal Government's Department of Labor http://www.dol.gov/whd/contact_us.htm
They can help direct you to the appropriate parties responsible for answering your questions about how FMLA is administered and if your husband is being treated fairly.
That's ridiculous! Some people need to pee more often than others, that's life. And it doesn't necessarily have to do with drinking more water. While I personally don't have a problem, a friend of mine does. She has a small and easily irritated bladder so she pees every 20-30 mins.
I would consult an attorney who knows the laws because this seems ridiculous. I have never heard of something so extreme!
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Sounds like he might need an attorney.
Maybe he can wear depends adult diapers! I think it sounds crazy. We have tech support people who are on the phone all day and they just make sure someone is available to take calls when they go pee/smoke/get coffee/come see others for answers. If all are on the phone when another call comes in the customer can "hold" or leave a voicemail. Your husband's company sounds like they are still using very archaic rules. Talk to a lawyer.
He should explain the work problem to his doctor and ask if there is an alternative, or if it is really that necessary.
When I worked at a call center i had them put my desk right next to the ladies bathroom and if I had to go I would ask my caller if I could put them on hold for one moment while I checked something on their account or to see if a router was down in their area. I ran to the RR and back in less that 1.5 minutes. I did that any time I was having a "health" issue. I have IBS and have chronic diarrhea. If I don't go when the urge hits I have, well, you can just imagine.
