Fired

The one thing you are not looking at is her behavior pattern. She has a bad case of the 'poor me syndrom'. This is typical behavior in a substance abuser or a person suffering from mental illness. Before you get too involved in their situation she needs to be evaluated. Unless she stops making excuses and feeling sorry for herself the cycle will never stop.

As a health care educator, I normally encourage and support going back to school. In the case I would not advise to do so--especially nursing. It is very competitive right now and the program is demanding. Most programs evaluate students on their behavior or "soft skills". It sounds like this mother would have serious difficulty in this area. It sounds like she would have difficulty with the didactic portion of the program as well. Students who are unable to accept feedback about their performance and utilize it to benefit themselves and their skills typically do not do well in the medical field--especially in this economy. Employers can pick who they want to hire because so many apply for each job. Only those with the best skills and the best attitudes get the jobs.

I am not saying that she should never go back to school. I would highly advise that she not pursue a demanding career that requires skills that she is lacking. It would be a shame for her to spend time and money on schooling when it is unlikely for her to complete it and be employable. Once she is able to work on her ability to accept feedback and have a positive outlook AND be able to take responsibility for her choices, then I would say yes to entering into a nursing or other allied health program.

These people sound terribly dysfunctional. I know you love them, but the honest truth is, it sounds like they have been grifting the system and it has finally caught up with them. And if you're not careful, you WILL get sucked into it too.

Your best bet is to stay out of their business. The corner they have backed themselves into is the lot THEY chose. They chose this by every decision and action they made up to this point. Now they have to live with the consequences.

As far as I can see, bankruptcy probably isn't going to solve their problems...even if they get approved. (Just because they apply, doesn't mean they will qualify- things have changed!) The reality is, they will probably wind up losing that home to foreclosure and have to become renters and IF they're lucky, MAYBE they'll be able to wipe away their debt through a bankruptcy.

And you are right, after all of that, her husbund will probably not be able to work in law enforcement or any career that does background checks, and thanks to her insulance on the last job, she'll probably have no good references to find another.

Sounds pretty hopeless to me. But as I said, it sounds like they made alot of bad choices, and now they have to live with it. You can not solve their problems...nor would you want to. They're a vortex of trouble and if you get too close you'll get sucked in.

Maybe if they're lucky, they'll qualify for government assistance or can live on SSI if it turns out one of them has a mental disability as you seem to imply.

.

Rather than nursing, what about a CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant) program?

My daughter (in central Texas) was able to get into a free CNA training program... it was a 2 week course, if I remember correctly. I really don't know where she should look into getting into that kind of a program... maybe the unemployment office would be able to refer her to a program? For her, it may have been through the Williamson-Burnet County Opportunities programs... I don't really know for sure.

She took that course, but realized that she really couldn't do the nursing home type work... however, it did show her she does have an aptitude for health care, so she is attending the local community college to try to get into a standard nursing program. (She is hoping to get into pediatric nursing, instead.) Despite her poor showing in High School, she has been excelling this time around.... Mostly A's, even in Anatomy, Biology, and Algebra. (I always knew she was good in science/math... she just struggled with other things in high school.)

However, as others have pointed out, unless she changes her attitude, she will have a hard time getting anywhere, successfully.

You cannot change people like this.

For your sake, you need to back off & cut off ties. Don't get sucked in, you too will get exhausted & resentful, which you already are from the sounds of your post about them getting SO MUCH for free

You mentioned many things they can do to *get ahead*, they also can get rid of their 3 dogs.

I pray to God they keep their kids in private school.

You say that she has "dreams" of not living paycheck to paycheck. Until she switches her dreams to goals, she will never get them. She needs to set goals, if they want to have money in savings - stop spending unnecessarily. She sounds like the kind of person though who is going to have to learn by her own mistakes. They have been helped numerous times and have not learned by their mistakes because they have been bailed out too many times. She may be the kind of person who will have to hit rock bottom and dig her own way out before she learns the true value of responsibility.

We had to go through some difficult times to learn our lessons too. We were making twice what we make now and we were living paycheck to paycheck. Now, I quit my job to go back to school and we are living on one income and doing far better than we were doing. We have a nicer house, we are able to enjoy life a little more because we budget our money and live responsibly. We aren't making much more than what your friend's husband makes and the cost of living is higher here but we make it work through careful budgeting and planning. Our dreams are coming true but they had to become goals first.

This seems to be a case study in co-dependency, with a big hook – innocent kids who's futures are being diminished by their parents' behaviors. While on on the surface it's apparent that the M.'s reasoning is disordered, it sounds like the husband is too much an appeaser, and perhaps feels too entitled or victimized himself, to offer needed influence. So, in the interest of helping the children, you are now being gradually drawn into the whirlpool where you, too, (and your resources) could get sucked toward the drain.

As clear as it is to us that the M.'s desires, choices, and consequences are the driving force, she may be completely blind to this. She's looking the other way, probably toward childhood needs of her own that always went unheeded. This kind of dysfunction is hard to address, especially by anyone outside the family. And especially anyone untrained in counseling skills.

I'm one of the "sensitive, sympathetic" people who has been taken in repeatedly, by family (I have my own history of dysfunction there), as well as by friends and acquaintances. And even strangers who come within my arm's reach, if they have a sad story, if they have a child or a pet who shouldn't have to suffer.

I've traveled that route at least a couple of dozen times in my 45 adult years. I may never learn how to avoid it altogether, but each time I learn a bit more. One thing that seems consistent is that these needy people almost always reveal who they are before I get sucked in, and I proceed anyhow, where angels fear to tread. People who actually can be helped by a boost from outside, and there are many, don't have that pattern of repeated failures and excuses.

Another is that there is something in me that needs to feel needed and heroic, and somehow believes that my input will count where dozens of others have previously failed.

And finally, if I really pay careful attention, I notice that I somehow believe that this time, my giving will absolve me of my own failures and heal my dysfunctions. These features are common to co-dependency.

And though my impulse may seem as pure as anything I can generate, it's still not coming from a healthy place. Dependent people count on people like me (and perhaps like you) to keep giving them whatever it is that will help them maintain their own self-deception, their own false expectations and self-defeating attitudes. It's not, ultimately, a gift to do that for them. While you hope to make a difference for their children or dependents, in the long run, it tends to just keep the family from hitting bottom longer.

While tragic, hitting bottom is what a person like this will have to experience before any meaningful change can happen. It's hard to watch, like a slow train wreck. And it's hard to watch children injured in the process. The good news is that at least some of the children will often learn profound lessons from experiencing this kind of descent for themselves, and learn how not to repeat this dynamic. And sometimes, parents wake up from the shock of realizing the ways they are hurting their own children.

I would look for county or public counseling services that are available to low-income families in many areas. They may qualify for that. And they may choose not to take advantage of the things that will actually promote change. This sounds like a family that only knows chaos, and anything more predictable may actually seem threatening.

I wish I could give you some magical advice, but looking on sympathetically while they live out their lives may be exactly what needs to happen. It's a variation on Tough Love.

Her child should stay at the school. That is where they benefit most.

She needs to cut out the cable. Go to Netflix. It will save them at least $50 a month (the price of school).

Since she is on unemployment, she can apply for a PELL grant to go back to school and get a nursing degree.

They should NOT refinance the house to pay off credit cards. Right now the credit cards are unsecured. If they can't make the payments now, they can't make the new house payment that includes them. To refinance and pay off the cards will make the unsecured debt secured. This is NOT a good thing.

I don't have any advice for helping them, but I want to say congratulations to you for still wanting to help. It sounds like her boss wanted to help and she still didn't do what she needed to in order to keep her job, her kids are getting scholarships to get a better education and she doesn't appreciate it and has a bad attitude. I would have a hard wanting to help her. Good for you for being a bigger person than I am and sticking with it. I hope things work out for the children.

I am an instructor in an associate degree nursing program (i am almost done with my masters in nursing, and have worked in hospitals as well as education). Every semester we have students that sound exactly like your friend, and unfortunately for them, most end up failing out and ending up in more debt than before. Nursing school is very stressful, it is not like traditional degrees. I would suggest a CNA program first, and if she likes that, try a LVN/LPN program. It's faster, cheaper, and not as in depth as RN school. That being said, I'm not sure I'd be confident in her ability to complete that program either, and working long hours doing sometimes demeaning work on your feet doesn't sound like something she'd be willing to do anyways...

Does her husband's job offer EAP benefits? If so, it would be beneficial to seek out what a professional could advise them to do. Texas Workforce Commission may also have training she can get to get into another job, or look at a temp agency to get into a job quickly. This is a temporary setback not a "how our lives are over" situation. Come up with a plan that works for the family and work your way back to where you want to be. Thinking about retirement right now is not helpful...worry first about getting back on your feet with the least disruption to the kids. If they are doing well in their school I agree the $50 they would save does not compare to the help the child is getting. You can recover $50 somewhere else. So start with TWC or an EAP program to see what options are available!!! Keep your head up things will get better...as I often remind myself...."this too shall pass".

The house payment is good, that stays. Keeping the utilities down with winter coming is a plan they need to make too.

If they pay over $100 per month for both together on the cell it has to be a cheaper plan with no overages, they are doing well on the eating out thing. If they spend less than $20 the one time per week. I think that eating out is occasionally is okay, we use the dollar menu and drink water so I spend less than $10 to feed a family of 4-6, we only do one fry because they are so disgusting. That's 4-6 double cheeseburgers, and 2-3 $1.00 nuggets with apples or other $1 menu sides.

******************
I think doing anything that will jeopardize their home is wrong. No refinancing or anything.

Just stop using the credit cards and pay the minimum:

The why...they can't pay them down at all by making extra payments, it all goes to interest and nothing on the principle changes. Yes, the payments eat away at them but they can pay the bare minimum until she gets a job.

As for student loans and repayment, if she's in school they can be deffered until she graduates so that is a plus for being enrolled full time. Normal FA would help them with extra income too, what is not used for school costs is designated to help with their bills so they don't have to work while going.
***************

She should get a job to help the family, whether she works at McDonalds or Walmart it's income. They are established in many avenues for their family. It does not sound like the make excellent choices but truly, who does each and every time? Taking the one child out does not save them enough to make a difference. The benefits of their private school outweighs the use of public schools who would put their child in a class of regular kids and they would get lost in the shuffle. They might even flunk this year due to bad grades.
****************************************
I am pro school, I can assure you I think going to school is the WAY to a better life but in this case...no, nursing school is like medical school, it is hard, clinical's take days out of your week and it's hard loosing patients, being on your feet day in and day out, it is the hardest course of study to pass. If she fails any of her first semester classes or even if she only makes "C"s she won't be accepted into the core classes for nursing school. So if she does enroll in classes she will still be getting some college but will most likely have to change her major somewhere through the first year. My friend who is a professor of nursing has several children that are way above normal intelligence, their IQ'a are through the roof. A couple of them couldn't pass the classes to go to nursing school and dropped out. One is an Architect and one is finishing up a Masters in Business and owns their own business. They are extremely intelligent and couldn't do it.

Being realistic though, if she applies herself and everything is lined up she could enroll in school if she can get free FA and the existing stuff is put on deffered status, she can always take gen ed classes until she shows if she can pass the classes with acceptable grades.