Double Whammy Here...

Consistency is key! He knows he can get away with you telling him multiple times so he does it. Get in his face on his level and say "do this". Don't let him out of it.

On the sleep thing- yes, send him to bed earlier. My 5yo has a 7:30 bed time regardless of day (he is in full day kinder). We even follow this in the summer and on weekends. He needs his sleep and he no longer naps.

Good Luck

Since you get up early on weekdays earlier bedtime.. I now this sounds early start routine at 6:30 pm then asleep by 7pm.. My 7 year old goes to bed at 8pm and gets up at 6:30am.. also since he gets up so early even and early dinner might help 4:45pm or so.
Lenc

If you regularly tell him 5 times to do something, then he knows that he usually has that many chances. Make it a habit to only tell him once or twice - whatever you decide - and stick to it. He doesn't respect you because he doesn't fear your consequences.

I used to put my kids to bed between 8 and 8:30 about two years ago, but I could tell that it wasn't working. They just couldn't function they way I knew they could, so I attributed to lack of sleep. Since then, I have been putting my kids to bed between 7 and 7:30. It makes a world of difference. A 7:30pm bedtime may sound early for an 8 1/2 and 6 y/o, but they wake up on their own just before 6am but their alarm clock is set for 6:30am.

Yes, dinner time has to be moved up, too. A big positive is that you have some quiet, quality time with your hubby. I know it sounds like a huge adjustment, but once you do it life is good because everybody is happier. Good luck!

Oh, my, motherhood! I'm so glad they grow up because I couldn't stay being a mom of a 5-yr-old for very long!

Take heart. Try to find out if he getting a good night's sleep. My 7-yr-old and 10-yr-old have 8:30pm bedtimes. Each child is different. I found that I can't leave my two youngest alone to fall asleep. I have had to help out with staying in their room for about half an hour (sometimes less). I can get away with this because I can carry my laptop upstairs and work under its illumination. (My husband is also "young at heart"; just wish he could be consistent and not forget things! otherwise, I love that "boy" of mine!)

For the other, I highly recommend this book "1-2-3 Magic" by Phelan. It's great to say, sorry, already counted to 3, remember? that means no .... [dessert, for example]. I found the biggest hurdle for me was controlling my emotions so I didn't get angry. Being as matter-of-fact as I could and being consistent were the most helpful points for me. That, plus, choosing what is important to work on at the time. I would, for instance, work hard with my boys to get them to stop hitting each other, in play or otherwise; and let slide a messy room. The term is "pick your battles." Work on one "battle" at a time. Sometimes there is two, but one at a time is more effective.

I would love to hear what you try and what works for you and your family!

Good luck,
D.

I agree with Lenc 7pm should be a good bedtime for him but... because his schedule changes so much from day to day it is going to be a difficult adjustment for him to make. You may need to adjust some in your schedule so that he is going to bed and getting up at the same time everyday (even if gulp.. that means 5:30AM). Sorry about that but it is truth.
As for the respect and obidence. I know it is true with my own kids if they see you not being respected by your husband (especially boys) they will not respect you as authority either. Not sure how to fix that other than discussing it with your husband. We go in cycles at times that my husband disrespects for about a week or so (when he is mad or upset about something) and the kids act up like crazy. Things like not respecting my rules of no food on the livingroom furniture or turn the tv off at meal time. Even talking disrespectfully (bad attitude) can change the way the kids see me.
I also have the issue of keeping my emotions in check as Donna said. I have found a great book called "how to raise kids you want to keep." It is great. Covers a ton of issues and great ways to handle them. Although be careful don't try to kick every bad habit your kids have all at once it becomes to difficult and confusing for all invovled.
Keep this in mind as well. Behavior is often age related so is he being disobiedent or just immature? You don't really want a behavior change but a heart change. If you tell your son to go clean his room and he stomps all the way through the house and slams doors and grumbles and complains while doing what he was told to do is he being obiedient? No his behavior is but his heart isn't. Heart change is what we as parents are looking for and to truely change it can and will take hard work and consistancy as a parent and time. Sometimes years (I'm sorry I know that is not what you want to hear... you want a quick fix) but it is truth. Hope this helps

I would suggest getting him on a bedtime schedule that is the same everyday. its hard on a little one to have conflicting schedules everynight. They like to have consistency so they can know what to expect, its security building in them. 5 year olds need about 11 hrs of sleep at night. (and good sleep will definelty affect his behaviour, my daughter is a living example) If he's needing to get up by 5:45 I would say set his bedtime everynight to be 7 or 7:30.
And...its hard being a mom. for some reason they will obey daddy so much more easily and quickly than mommy. i think its because we are with them all day and they just like to test us. Be consistant in your discipline (it may take a while). A really good book that helps you learn how to get to the heart issues of the kids behaviours is Shepherding a Childs Heart by Ted Tripp. Hope this helps!

Bedtime at least by 7, lights off after story etc by 7:30 tops. Love and Logic is a great resource for me. It's a difficult age for me as well, my little girl is getting pretty darn sassy!

Hi T.,
Sorry, didn't read all the posts. Just wanted to tell you that I have a 5 year old who sounds the same age as your son (she is still in PreK--turned 5 in Sept.). I know if I don't have her in bed by 8pm I have all kinds of trouble at bedtime. On good nights, we have lights out at 8pm...on average, she is in bed by 8 having her bedtime story read to her, and we have lights out by 8:15pm. Your son may need to go to bed a little earlier b/c he has to get up so early on school days. I know it's hard, but I would shoot for lights out by 8 at the latest. If you can get him down by 7:30/7:45 that would be even better. But shoot for consistency during the week, it will make things easier for you.
When you talk to him about doing/not doing something, make sure you are speaking to him face to face, on his level. If he is on the floor, playing with toys and/or watching tv, go to where he is, get down on his level, and make sure he looks at you while you are talking to him. It is very easy for kids this age to get into their 'own little world' and seriously not realize when someone is talking to them. Esp. mom, whom he probably hears talking all day long...he has become accustomed to tuning you out when he's doing his own thing. Only discipline him when you have done the above and he still doesn't comply. If you are yelling for him to come to dinner from downstairs and he doesn't come, then you need to go to him and tell him with the above method. I know it is a pain but at this age, if you punish him for not coming when you call from the other room, he will only feel like you are punishing him for no good reason b/c he legitimately may not have heard you. Not b/c you weren't loud enough but b/c he is simply so wrapped up in what he's doing that he doesn't hear anything outside of it. Good luck! I know it can be a tough age, and with twins to take care of too...whew! I feel for 'ya. :-)

Hi! Do you like to read? If so, I cannot tell you how wonderful the book "bringing up boys" is by Dr. James Dobson. It is heart-warming, cathardic, and most importantly, helpful!Let me know if you decide to get it.

ChristinaW
work at home mommy

First, like Dr. Phil says, "You're not gonna like what I have to say." 5yr olds need 11-12 hours of sleep each and every night to be well-rested, sharp thinking, and have smooth nerve endings---in other words, to be civil, responsive (not reactive), engaged, and nice. If you have to have him ready to leave at 5:30am, and I imagine you want to feed him something (unless he'll eat breakfast later somewhere), he needs to be asleep by 5:30pm and up at 4:30am. If that's not do-able currently, something's gotta give in your lifestyle so he can get his basic health needs met.

You really need to keep the bedtime the same EVERY night. I know it's tough, but you won't believe the difference it makes! My own 5 year old goes to bed at 8, (and is asleep within 5-10 minutes and wakes up on his own right at 7. He goes to pre-school every day, and we get him there around 8:30-9.
If your husband and you don't present a united front, your son will buck the system. Try asking hubby to back you up in front of the kids, you can disagree in private later. Also, 3 times is a great limit for telling your son something. I ask nicely (and politely) the first time, second time is in a stern tone of voice, and if I have to say it a third time, I use the "Mommy voice" with a description of the consequence. If he still doesn't respond, I proceed with the consequence, no more discussion!
Good luck!

Hi there,
You have a lot going on with new babies and now school...you are wise to see that this can be affecting your son.

I am a parent educator and coach and a mom! One thing we teach in our courses is that all misbehavior is your child communicating to you that he has an unmet need. Basic needs of children (people!) include to be loved, to be powerful, to belong, to be valuable to others, to be respected, to feel safe, etc. You can start by guessing what need(s) of his are not being met and begin there. When kids' (people's) needs are met there is less need to misbehave. Here are some articles that may give you some more tips:
http://www.incaf.com/articles/10_Keys_to_Successful_Paren...

http://www.incaf.com/articles/Bedtime_Without_Hassles.pdf

Good Luck! I would love to hear from you about how it is going or you can just ask any other questions that come up from the article.
Blessings,
K.

Hi there
My son goes to pre school 2 days a week as well. He gets up at 7:30 to be there at 9. He goes to bed at 8:00 and gets up fine, usually on his own a few minutes before I go to wake him. We had to experiment with bed time a bit to decide what time was best. I put him to bed at the same time every night, that way he is on a schedule. Of course there are exceptions if we are doing something special, but not on school nights. He is a bear if he doesn't sleep well, or is up late on a school night. It sounds like your little guy might be tired.

As far as the respect issue, my husband works a lot so our son spends a lot of his time with me. When Daddy says something to him, he pays more attention and listens. Even if I have already said it 3 times! Maybe they just learn to tune us Moms out after a while. If you figure that one out, let me know!

T.,

Yes, your son needs to go to bed earlier because you get up at 5:30. If you get him an alarm clock, he may wake easier. My daughter is 7 and gets up at 6:45 a.m. and goes to bed between 8:00-8:30 p.m. My daughter gets up with her alarm clock. I annoyed her to wake her up in the morning. We would have major struggles each morning. The alarm clock has stopped the struggles.

As for the behavior, I am with you. My daughter is very strong willed. I have used timers and seen improvement. She also has time outs often. I am working with her on using manners, for some reason lately she just demands. She has been taught manners, we are just working on bringing them back.
Also, some of his behavior is for attention...negative or positive. Ignore him to see if it subsides. If he ramps up the behavior because no one is paying attention, calmly march him into a time out, and then discuss the house rules of behavior.

I hope your son can get his rest and you can have peace in your home.
Take care.

My twelve year olds just now go to bed between 8:30 and 9:00 - when they were 5, bedtime was 7:00. It really makes all the difference in the world in the mornings. As for your other issue, say it once - maybe twice - and then the consequences kick in. If you have to say it 5 times, you're frustrated and he "wins". I hate to say it that way, but someone has to be in charge, and it can't be the 5 year old. Good luck! You really have so much on your plate. Don't forget to breathe.

I love what the book To Train Up a Child (www.nogreaterjoy.org) says about getting a child to listen. They talk about how to train a horse to pull a wagon...if you repeat yourself or raise your voice they will only respond if you do these things. If you speak once in a normal voice and teach the child to tune there ears to you then you won't be as frustrated. Don't wait until the 5th time for the consequence. Say it once and then move to act.

Spend time listening to your child (reading books etc.) even though the younger children are demanding you, remember he will listen better if you have his heart. Smile a lot at him :) Teach him what your looks mean, (and they don't have to be mean) so that he knows that he's being expected to do something when he sees "that look."

I would definitely vote for an earlier bed time, or find a preschool that works with your family's needs. We were having to leave the house before 6 too, and with young children decided to home school. But earlier bedtimes are great too because mom and dad geth their evening back and can work on that marriage by spending child free time...something we all need :)

An afternoon blessing to you!

A good nights sleep is going to make all the difference in the world with your son's behavior. Also, keep the bedtime the SAME every night of the week. You can't change it on the weekends. Consistency is KEY!

A five year old needs between 10-12 hours a night. As crazy as it sounds, you should put him to bed at 6:30, even if he is restless, hopefully he will be asleep by 7:30 which will give him 10 hours a night. I really believe most kids are sleep deprived these days.

Children challenge their mothers. Just keep doing what you are doing. With the babies, he is acting out for attention....and, he's getting it.

Try to see if your husband can take the babies and you can spend some one on one time with your son, maybe once a week. Something mellow, like go for a walk, bike ride to the park. Get a quiet bonding connection with him and talk, NOT about his bad behavior but just try to give him some extra attention. I know that may seem impossible these days but he's acting this way for a reason.

Good luck, you sound like a great mom.

Yes do the math. he needs 10 hours on his own to wake up, so he needs 10 hours on a school night. Most sleep specialists will tell you that it is important to go to bed and get up close to the same time every day. So shoot for about 7:30. I think that the alarm clock is a good idea, and just don't set it on non school days, so he can possibly sleep in a little, or teach him to play quietly in his room, or watch a little TV, so maybe you can stay in bed for just a little while when he doesn;t have school. He may need extra sleep after a school day anyway! My friend has a 5 yr old, and he does school 2 days a week also. on hi school days, he falls asleep on the couch, early in the evenings, and then wakes up just enough to go to bed for the night. school can wipe a child out at that age.
As far as him listening to you, do whatever it is that your husband does. If what he's doing works, then you need to be consistant with it. Does he do most of the spanking? does he always follow up when he tells your son there will be a consequence? You do the same ..what ever he is doing. and be sure that your husband always backs you up on any discipline that you set up for the son. Tag team! I wish you luck! 5 year olds are a handful!They are still very young children, but are starting to feel out a little independance!

You may want to do you own research or check with your pediatrician, but children need around 10 hours of sleep. I agree that 7 or 7:30 may be a better time. Also a bed time routine is key. My son had a shower, snack, then brushes his teeth and reads in bed for a little bit. After 10 of 15 minutes we tell him lights out and he shuts his own light off. This has helped us because it allows him some control over his bed time and he doesn't fight us as much. There are still the "I forgot to tell you something" "I'm thirsty" etc excuses for getting up every now and then but not nearly as bad as before we started this routine.

As far as the respect, you are giving him way to many warnings. You should warn him once or twice, then comes teh time out. Doing this for a few days will curb the taking his own sweet time issue. When you give a warning you have to follow through and show you mean what you say. They will push you to the absolute limit if you let them. So take control now, 1 warning and that is it! It's hard, because you have to be careful on what you say because then you have to follow through, but it works!

Good luck!

You have been given all excellent advice. I will add that the "not listening and doing what you say".. try this..

When you are telling him what you need or want him to do, start with the words, "look at me and listen to my words." Give him a moment to stop and do this. Then tell him what you need to tell him.. If you feel he may not have understood. then ask him to "Tell me what I just said." have him repeat it to you.When he repeats it correctly, be sure to say Thank you.

This puts it in his control.

I saw there is like 20 responses,but here is my 2 cents!
I have 3 kids, my son was 5 when I had my second. He is the first born and thinks he is older than he is. Maybe with your son, getting him to bed earlier would be hard. But if you say like at 7:30 is going to be just time for the two of you, let dad watch the babies and you read a story and just talk to him, I like to rub my kids down with lotion, they love their feet done. That could be your time with him and then before you know it hes going to sleep earlier. Maybe by having positive time with him, he will listen to you more. He is just looking for attention.

It is a hard time when babies are little, everyone wants a piece of us and we don't even have time for ourselves! Don't give up on your son or your husband! You need family to come help out watch the kids so you can go on a date! and maybe take your son just you and him out too. Believe me, I have so been there!

Definitely try getting your son earlier than 9 even on non-school nights. Kids thrive on consistancy. Try getting him to bed at the same time every night. Back up the time by 10-15 minutes each night until you can get him to bed closer to 8:00. Try to be consistant, but don't strive for perfection. Secondly, be positive with your son. For example, if you get your pj's now than we will have time for one more book. What worked for my daughter was the token approach. Give your son a token before he goes to bed. If he gets up than he uses the token (and that's okay). But... if he stays in bed, he gets to keep his token. When he accumulates _____token (you decide what is realistic) than he gets a ______(special outing, new toy, etc. -try to avoid food as an incentive). I stuck with this for two weeks and my daughter finally is sleeping through the night and staying in her own bed every night. The dr. recommended the token idea. This is a very challenging time for you with twins and your 4 YO, but be positive and be patient. If you can, get extra help if you can (mommy's helper or babysitter). Jealousy sets in about this age and he may need some extra TLC. Good Luck!