I spoke with a male friend today (like a big brother to me; no girlfriend; no kids, never been married, 35 yrs old). I was telling him about my house being built and how it's been a slow process. We're living in the house as we work on it (we have walls, working water/toilet/shower), but we don't have a kitchen sink yet (one sink in the bathroom for now for washing dishes and hands and brushing teeth, filling up water jugs, etc). We don't have kitchen counters or cabinets (the dryer and deep-freeze are my countertops, we bought some nice shelves on wheels that I like a lot actually for plates and groceries.) We dont' have bedroom or bathroom doors yet. I don't really care to have them. We do have a 'cover' for the bathroom for when we want privacy.
So anyway - my friend tells me "Tell your husband "No nooky until the house is done."" I think this is the most awful advice. I told myself at the beginning of my marriage that I would never tell my husband no to sex. And I haven't in the 4 years we've been married. Am I naieve? Am I the only one that thinks ultimatums like this is terrible? I just don't think it's what marriage is about - witholding sex from my husband so I can have kitchen counters and doors? I assume many of you might say "that guy is dumb. He's never been married" but I have also heard others say similar advice (on this site I think?).
I am just curious:
- Have you ever said this to your husband? Did it work?
- What are your thoughts on saying "no sex until you ____" ? I don't know if I'm in the norm or not in this subject.
- GUYS on this site -- PLEASE give me some insight into the subject.
Thanks to everyone!
@ Nicole: Good idea!
@ SH: We are building the house on our own. We have done almost everything on our own on the weekends until it was liveable. Once it was liveable, we moved in. So no - no contractors no anything except us. We do not want to take out a loan, so we are doing the house paycheck by paycheck. Soon we need to get a heater put in before winter. I am thinking it will be two years until I have a kitchen, honestly. The bedrooms are first b/c of the layout of the house, then the living room, then the kitchen and pantry.
@ Mary M - Good idea!
@Teresa: Oh dear I wouldn't know where to start. He'd probably be pissed if I touched anything. He's a perfectionist. Hence - him doing it all himself and not contracting out a lot of the work.
@ Cheryl: Ha - no he's not married and has so many things going against him. I've never known him to have girlfriend and I've known him for many many years - I think 12 years.
@ Megan: Good point.
Sounds like about 5 of you have used such phrase, but often for smaller things. I could not even imagine no sex for the next two years till the house is done. Crazy idea. Plus, I think for my husband sex is a very good stress-reliever. And he's been spending a lot of time with work trying to earn more money so that we CAN contract out the work. I'm not too worried about the house. The only problem is the sink being in the bathroom. I can't cook and rinse my hands or veggies very easily. The sink is low and it hurts my back sometimes.
Maybe my friend watches too much tv. I know I have heard these sexual ultimatums a few times on tv.
@ Victoria -- We have considered a sink in the kitchen-area. Our one sink in the bathroom IS a utility sink. I think the reason we don't have a utility sink in the kitchen area yet is b/c of the septic and water and venting .... I am not sure 100%. And we did look online at rolling center islands. I dont think I need it now, really. My dryer is the prefect height for chopping food and i have enough space for my stuff/counter-type space. BTW - no laundry room yet. Those walls are the last to put up. RIght now my kitchen techinally is in what will later be my pantry/laundry room and some of my now-kitchen spills into my garage.
Don't use sex as a weapon. So I don't. That doesn't mean I never say "no." But I don't use sex in a manipulative way. It's sleazy.
I have never said that (well, I have said "no sex until you take a shower, but that is different! lol). Sex is about intimacy and showing love in another way, it should never be used as a manipulation tool. Doing such will only cause problems in the end.
Wow, I don't treat any adults like that - no _____ until you do X. In fact I don't treat my 5 year old like that. It is a very disrespectful way to deal with people. I find talking works better.
Psh, well that's silly. It suggests that sex is some kind of gift a wife gives to her husband. And we all know THAT ain't the case!
;)
The BEST way to get him moving is to START DOING IT YOURSELF!
ooh God no!!! Give me more please!!!!
While I understand the frustration of things not getting done - I wouldn't withhold intimacy from him because of it...
Since the guy isn't married - most likely won't be happening for him anytime soon!! LOL!!!
I think this is the worst advice ever. It breaks down the relationship. What if your husband started saying, "No house until you give me nooky!"? You can't barter something that is so intricate to the relationship. It's not a commodity. It sounds like he is advising you to prostitute yourself to your husband. You'll "pay" him with sex if he'll "pay" you with the house. If you want your marriage to fall apart and lose whatever specialness it has, try his advice. Otherwise. treasure your husband. Who cares about the wood,hay,and stubble of the world? Really. When it all comes down to it, which is more important? I'm not just talking about a house, I'm talking about anything other than your husband. I'm with you on this!
BWAHAHAHA!!
I'm usually the one trying to get some naked time, not him!!
;)
I have never uttered those words and I never will. That's a dangerous slope, IMO!
When I don't feel connected to my sexual partner I don't feel comfortable/safe/excited about having sex with him. Maybe surprisingly, I just GOT this. I don't hold sex or other forms of intimacy over my spouses head (if you don't clean the garage I'll stop talking to you/touching you/having sex with you). I do set boundaries ((I don't feel aroused, I need to stop / I would like to talk and hang out before we become physical / I feel ____ and would like to talk about it, are you available for that / I'm feeling disrespected and I don't want to be touched right now / etc)). Communication is pretty awesome, boundaries are big-Ephie-self-care. Threats are not productive or kind in my relationship.
Never have and never will
I've never purposefully withheld sex or given any verbal ultimatums concerning coitus, however, when my husband is being lax about things he should be doing such as letting responsibilities slide in favor of entertainment or generally not addressing things that must be done, I tend to become less amorous. Sometimes he'll notice it and ask what the matter is and I'll be honest and tell him, "I'm not in the mood dear. I'm just having trouble relaxing because _______________."
In your case I'd fill in the blank with, "I'm not in the mood dear. I'm just having trouble relaxing because I've got a lot on my mind. It's been very hard for me, trying to run a household in half a house. I feel like I'm perpetually camping and it's wearing on me. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow."
Then I'd roll over and go to sleep. At that point now his wheels are turning and usually whatever was bothering me will be resolved post haste and I'll be so overjoyed at the resolution to my obvious stressor that we celebrate with a hearty bedroom romp. And the best part is, I didn't have to nag and he gets to pat himself on the back for coming to the rescue as well as thinking it was all his idea. We both win.
I suggest that this would back fire. Take the pleasure and comfort away and there is less incentive to work. Without the closeness and comfort that sex adds to a marriage you'll both now have a new problem. How to deal with your feelings of abandonment and anger.
My parents built their own house. And then later, bought a house that didn't have a kitchen. The way my mother handled that was to say that since my father didn't have the time to finish it they should hire it done. My father stepped up his work.
Jessin Texas, you're certainly much more patient than I would be. My parents and an aunt and uncle built house and the kitchen was the first thing built. Not finished but built enough that we could cook and clean in it. Had temporary counters and shelves. Very rustic. A working sink.
I second Theresa's advice. Troy's sister in laws asked me how come Troy always finishes projects at our house. Because he knows damn well if they aren't done promptly I will finish them. Apparently I am not as picky in this area as Troy is. :)
I am sure your friend meant it as a joke, I hope.
NO, I have never said that. I have told him when I just really don't want to have sex, but that's entirely different. Not being in the mood, is different then these ultimatums. As humans...especially married humans...when are wants and needs are not met, we get resentful. That's when it's not even on purpose. When someone you love takes that away on purpose, hello resentment city.
Hey, maybe your kitchen gets done. It will damage your marriage. How would it be worth it? You would be taking something that is designed for intimacy, oneness, providing strength in a marriage...and reducing it to leverage, a bargaining chip, a punishment. Not a good idea. Your kitchen may get done (most likely not), and so may your marriage.
I wonder, the people on this site who gave that advice...how many of them have good marriages, marriages that ended, or love lost?
Just curious: how have been having sex with no doors;-)?
I would not personally use this particular tactic, but maybe you could turn it into possitive reinforcement. Everytime he gets something done you could reward him with some kind fantasy fulfillment:) good luck...
I never have and don't intend to ever withhold sex to manipulate a man to get something done. I just keep my men so happy they'll do anything for me that I ask! ;-)
My wife is usually the one asking for it, and no it won't work. If ya'll are enduring the stress of building a house, he will probably be fine with it. Lol
No way. I would never ever do that. I have said no to sex, you're amazing for never doing that!, but not in a threatening way, more in a I'm just too tired how about tomorrow way! ;)
I agree that it's terrible advice and people just shouldn't go there in a marriage. We also vowed that we would never cuss at each other during an argument b/c that opens the door to go someplace you can't come back from.
Telling a man or woman that is like telling them, "Ok, if you give me $100, then you get some."
NOT the way to have a kind, loving relationship.
Good luck to you and yours.
not unless i expected a divorce..........who wants to be treated like that>?
No. I've been married 21 years and never. I don't feel sex should be used as a weapon or a bribe, nor should it be something men enjoy and women avoid.
Sex is not a weapon :)
No I have never used sex. But then why would I cut off my nose to spite my face.
No.
Our intimate life is based on my mood, period! Ultimatums are nasty things.
That's the most ridiculous advice ever!! I would never not only not say no but never ever ever use it as an ultimatum to get things done! What exactly would it accomplish lol.. do you think hubs would be like "hmm, damn, I guess I better get her those counter tops.." probably not.. he'd probably think "what a b*tch, screw her countertops!" LOL.. you are not naive at all!!
Bargaining with sex is a major No-No. What does that say about the person giving the ultimatum? It is wrong. Sex in a marriage is not just so you or he can "get off." It is about reconnecting spiritually and remembering why you love the big lug anyway. I think it hurts a relationship and I do not practice it. There are other compromises to make. I lived in my house for 7 years while it was being built. After 7 years of misery, I now have no mortgage on the home of my dreams. Patience is a virtue.
Never have, never will. That's horrible and stupid.
Never. I think it's awful that a woman would use sex as tool to control her partner's behavior.
I don't give my husband ultimatums and he doesn't give them to me either.
Have I SAID it? No. Have I THOUGHT it? Yes. Have I followed through with it, nah...I have a terrible memory, chances are I would forget what he was supposed to do, so it's not worth the effort.
i never have and never will turn my husband down or give him that "no sex until you do what i want". that's stupid. he could easily turn it on me & i'm so tired that he'd be waiting years haha..i'm just kidding.
but seriously, that is the worst advice :(
no way! I could never say that. That is a horrible thing to say. How would it make you feel if your husband said to you "no hugs or affection or any type of attention until you ..." That would make me feel pretty awful and just make me upset with him rather than motivate me to do whatever. I agree with you!
My first hubby had some very serious depression issues (bipolar). Anyway - as he sank further down, his hygene took a BIG dive. He worked a dirty job in a factory. Nothing wrong with dirty work - dirty work is honest work. BUT - he wouldn't shower - not just for a day or two, but for weeks - like 3 or 4. And he wouldn't brush his teeth. Imagine getting down with that?
I tried everything I could to encourage him to work on his depression and honestly, I finally resorted to - "I will not kiss you unless you brush your teeth and no sex unless you shower". Of course I also wanted him to wear clean clothes (and underwear) and to help at least SOME around the house with both of us working full time.
UGH - so when he absolutely couldn't stand the no sex - he'd go run and shower and then be like a little puppy with a bone. "Huh? Can we? Huh? Come on!" BARF - It was such a freakin' backfire. He wouldn't clean himself for ME or for HIMSELF - but for SEX. turns my stomach now to think about it. It was a hollow victory.
2nd husband - he isn't a sex fiend. It's almost like he can take it or leave it. A threat like that would NOT work on him.
Nope. That is an immature way of handling things.
Terrible idea. Talk about treating your husband like a child.
No, I agree with you. I told my husband not only would I never say NO, but I would be willing to do ANYTHING he wanted to do (except other partners of course). I think throwing out ultimatums like that just cause resentment and more problems. Then even if the house gets done, it would be natural for him to want to "get back" at you somehow and it just starts a vicious cycle. So nope, no games played at our house. =)
In some situations, it may be needed if that is all a Husband will understand. There are some tough situations.
But to have sex as an ultimatum, well no one 'wants' to use it that way, but again, sometimes that is all you have left.
I can understand that.
But in YOUR case, it is your house being built.
And it can take time. Some homes take a year to be built.
My late Dad was in the construction biz. I grew up on job sites.
It can take time.
So for YOUR case and per your house being built, NO, sex is not an ultimatum.
But doesn't the construction company, have a TIMELINE by which your house WILL be built and completed and everything INSTALLED?
It is your/and your Husband's job to ask them and tell them this.
Or are you/Hubby, both doing this all by yourselves? If so, well heck, that can take a LONG time. But it has to be completed and you both have to have that GOAL.
WHAT exactly is the hold up, on getting your home built and completed, anyway????????????????????????????????????????
THAT is the problem.
Anyway, back to your question:
No, I have not used that against my Husband.
But I have been in deep freeze and in glacier stages before.
But that was from both sides. Him and me. In our stupid phases.
It is nice to have a guy pal.
But yours is 35 and never been married. Hence he cannot relate, exactly... to all relationship dynamics nor family life.
No way! Sex is about love and connecting and intimacy, I am not paying him for his handyman services etc;) I think that equating sex to some kind of payoff is just gross. Just my opinion :D
Lots of responses, I'll read them next. Crazy advice from a guy!!! I'm with you, bad advice. Stick to what you told yourself when you married. Intimacy shouldn't be used as a tool.
Yes. Yes I have. My fill in the black = _____stop being a prick____
We went from having sex almost daily for 10 years to none in a year.
((My personal feeling was that I shouldn't be punishing MYSELF! But then all respect just tanked about a year ago. Nope. Nuh-uh. Not gonna happen. The muffin shop is cloooooosed!))
Nah...I don't use that tactic and neither does my husband!
I've said it jokingly to my husband, but we both knew it was just not ever going to happen...LOL. I couldnt hold back if I tried!
I never have. Although... I have sometimes traded sexual favors for things. (ex... I'll do _______ if you give me a 30 minute backrub! lol.)
Although... I DO say 'no' to sex when I'm just not up for it. I'm not at his beck and call to achieve his own personal gratification. So if I'm too tired, not feeling good, etc. I will turn him down, which really isn't all that often. lol.
That would be torture for me also. Not good!!
I would be punishing myself if I withheld sex! That advice is as old as "just lay back honey and think of England!"
It wouldn't be how I would handle it. I could see saying "I'm to mad to be in the mood for sex tonight." after an argument though. Long term it is not a solution and if it is a long term problem or project then you need to work together to find a solution.
BTW my uncle and his wife are both perfectionist architects and they were finishing the details on their house for 2-3 years. But a working kitchen even took a few months.
don't listen to your friend.
No, I never use this phrase. Why should I punish myself?
No. Sorry.. but I just don't think that is right. It's quite literally a tit for tat. And I don't think that is how marriage is supposed to work. I think YOU are on the right track with your husband. Especially since it sounds like you guys came to an agreement about how you were going to go about building this house and I also am going to assume that you agreed to go ahead and move in, knowing in advance, that it would be some time before you'd have a functional kitchen. So, even if I WERE a person who would use sex as a 'weapon' to get things done, this situation isn't one that fits that scenario.
I think you should do whatever you are doing (I'm guessing it works for you so far, right?) and try to do whatever else you can to help speed up the process or figure out a workable short term solution. Do you have a laundry room? Could you fit a laundry sink in there and use that for your kitchen needs? They cost about $50 at home depot, don't they? Of course, that doesn't include plumbing for it, but still... easily a weekend job if you already have the plumbing run in the house, right? That and an island on wheels might go a long way to getting you through the next 2 years....
But for your direct question, no, I have never used it as a bargaining tool with my husband. I just don't think it's right. Just my opinion...
Interesting that it is a GUY giving you this advice!
I have said it to my husband ONCE. I said it, more in a joking manner, but still somewhat serious because asking my husband to do something over and over wasn't getting through to him. He's awful about leaving clothes all over the bedroom and never putting anything away when their clean. I was so sick and tired of looking at it all the time and having him tell me he would "take care of it later" (and no way am I going to do it, because he does his own laundry, he made the mess so he can clean it up! I am not the maid!), I finally said to him that we weren't having any sex until he decided to pick up all his clothes. I was half-kidding but he realized how serious and irritated I was and he got them cleaned up that day! Sometimes if they choose to act like a child they are going to get treated like one! Besides, having that mountain of clothes in our bedroom was a huge turn-off anyway! It only took him all of 15 minutes to get it all done.
I guess I am the dissenting opinion here. But home improvements take a lot of time so I don't think it's right to withhold sex for weeks on end. Like others have said, you can just "not be in the mood".
No. Ultimatums don't ever truly work. Sure, you may get what you want, but is a complete house worth the other issues that will come up because of the ultimatum? I don't think so. I think it's immature & disrespectful.
And, I'm not justifying cheating, but that's just one of the likely things to happen when you use sex to control your spouse on a regular basis. Was "winning" really worth it?
This is the WORST advice! This would never work out positively for anyone involved. I don't recommend going down that road. It's just likely to breed resentment. I think you just need to be honest and tell your husband what your priorities are when it comes to the house and try to work towards that together. Quite honestly, sex has nothing to do with it! Good luck to you and please, for the sake of your marriage, don't take marriage advice from your non-married friend. There may be a reason he's not hitched!
I have never said that to my husband. I am completely opposed to using sex as a "weapon" (or a way to force my way). I know that sex for men is very important (for women too, but on average, men "need" it more than women). I know it's a way to make my husband feel loved. If he's having a bad day or struggling with his self confidence over something, intimacy is a great way to help him feel like he's super loved and important. So, I use it more that way - to try to let my hubby know how much I love him.
I would never use it as a means of control. That's SO WRONG.
I would say use more of a reward system. Don't withhold but tell him hey I will do this if you finish this project. Weather it's get a sexy outfit or something a little different that will make him want to get it done. Tell him you will cook his favorite dinner if he finishes your kitchen.
it seems like guys find that a better solution than we women do, sometimes! i don't get it, i feel it's wrong, etc....just like you. have you just straight up asked him to do it? that's usually the best way to get my husband to do something. (not to mention, that sounds like a LOOOONG time with no nooky!)
It's OK to say no if you are not in the mood. But using it as a tool for manipulation will mess with your marriage, so I'd find other ways to convince him to finish the house.
I think it entirely depends on the ultimatum.
"No sex until you mow the yard?" NO
"No sex until you remember who I am and treat me with a little more courtesy?" TOTALLY
And it might night be an ultimatum, exactly, sometimes. But I might offer the helpful hint, "If you want to make sure I'm not too tired and stressed later on, a little help with the kids and the dishes could be just the ticket."
Suggestion of reward tends to work way better than threat of punishment when it comes to men and sex.
Re read your marriage vows. That is not part of the bargin. Congrats on your new house being built. Nookie away...dont make the bedroom on hold like the kitchen is too!
If you tell him no sex until ______, that means you don't get any either. Do you really want to go down that road and have him possibly look elsewhere for some attention? Then he may never be home to finish the house. No a good way to go in my opinion.
Do what you think is right for your marriage. All the best and I bet you'll have a beautiful home to show for all your patience & lovin'...
MB
Wow.
I think it would be the equivalent to a husband saying something like, "No hugs, cuddles, affection or emotional connection until ______". I completely validate your feelings about this. Go with your gut.
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Oh my! I've heard that from women, but I've never heard a man suggest that, lol, and I've had A LOT of good guy friends. Have I ever said no?? Well in the 5 1/2 years of marriage, I've actually been too tired/sore/sick a couple times that I've not really felt up to it. But that was a 2 or 3 times situation, not a habit or punishment!
Now when I was in 11th grade, that's how I taught Spanish to a boy I was dating......if he got the sentence right, he got a kiss and if he didn't get it right, he needed to practice and get it right. But dude. I was in 11th grade. And it was Spanish lessons with a 17 year old boy. Not real life, my home, adulthood, and my husband / love of my life. I think that's a terrible idea too. Now have I JOKED about it with him? Yeah. And he's joked right back at me. He thought it was hilarious to think that I'd even threaten him like that, because he knows how much I love him and how much I love our "quality time". Which, I have to admit, made me feel good to know that he was confident and sure in how much I love and want him, because that is VITAL for a marriage. So yeah, while those words have crossed my lips, it has never ever been serious. Usually more making fun of other people because we have a terrible, wicked sense of humor.
I don't really think that "no sex until..." is a norm. I know it DOES happen, and it happens more than it should, with more couples than you may guess. But I wouldn't really guess that it's the "norm" (but then what the heck is norm and average anyway?). I can say this: since I've been super close with lots of guys in my life and not in the gf/bf way but more in the "Ok, so tell me the truth and I'll tell you the truth" kind of way (so we can learn how to deal with OTHER guys/girls)...no guy would seriously suggest something like that for such an extended time. (Maybe "no sex until the dishes are clean" (which I don't agree with, because sex is not a doggy biscuit that they get for performing a trick, but I could see how some would say "well, it'd get his attention") but building a home takes TIME and it is NOT healthy to go that long without connecting and intimacy). Men don't really like being controlled and manipulated in normal life. In specific times, some men might like it for a minute, but not in a normal daily setting and that game is a form of manipulation. And if it were me, I would take what your guy friend said one of two ways: he was trying to be your "gf" and tell you what he's heard girls joke about (sex in the city type humor), or he's trying to see what your reaction would be. Would you laugh, would you spill a little more than you normally would about your sex life to him? Just kinda teasing you to see what you'd say or do. That's all that was, in my opinion.
No. I never have.
My thoughts about ultimatums and marriage are that they're an attempt to manipulate one's partner. This reminds me of some "advice" I got from my mother that I thankfully never followed. My husband and I dated about four years before he proposed. My mother said, "You have to give him an ultimatum - get married or else!" My response was, "Gee, that sounds like a GREAT way to start a life together." (BTW, he was saving for a ring as we spoke, and proposed two months later anyway). If you want that kind of a dynamic in your marriage, good for you. It's not something that works for my husband and me, personally.
PS: So if I withhold sex until dear hubby gives me what I want, does that mean I also have to give him a BJ every time he buys me jewelry (lol)?
I've never said no sex until ___, but I also most certainly do not say ok every single time he suggests/asks for it. If I did that, not only would I almost never get to leave my bedroom at all, I wouldn't be happy because I'd be making myself do something I really didn't want to do several times a day. There's a wonderful thing called "compromise" & we use it as often as we can in our marriage. ;)
I'm late on this, but no way! I definitley don't say yes every time, but I wouldn't make sex conditional on him doing something. That is very coercive and destructive to a marriage relationship. Now, I have nothing against offering a little something extra to provide incentive to get a job done - win, win!
I have said no to sex because I was too tired or not feeling well, or just not in the mood, but never used it as a reward or withheld it as a punishment.
Depends on the circumstances.
