Piggybacking off Entrada's question earlier regarding providing guidance to other people's children~
When I was young, we had a large, extended family present, and everyone just looked after each other's kids. My mother taught us early on that if another adult or older person (even a trusted teen) was asking us to behave or settle down or providing other reasonable guidance, etc. we were to do it immediately. If she had to be told by another adult that we hadn't followed their directions, we were immediately in double trouble, because we were supposed to listen to those 'who knew better than you'.
I now extend that to our son; now that I have a different family entirely I have made sure that my siblings, parents, friends and mom-friends know that they are always welcome to help Kiddo receive good guidance and to stop what's happening in the moment. He knows he has to listen to them just as he must listen to myself and my husband. I think this willingness to let others lead him has helped to cultivate some neat, dear relationships between Kiddo and the adults in his life-- even adults who don't really like kids. They just tell it like it is, he listens to them and I see the goodness that comes from this. This has extended also into good relationships with his teachers past and present, because I will back them up even when he doesn't think it's *fair* or particularly like it.
So, I wonder, for parents who want to be the only person to provide guidance or disicpline, what is it about doing it yourself that is attractive? (I do take into account that some of us have very grumpy parents who bark at the kids, so I am aware that some situations require a protective parent. Also, I understand why a family with very young children might feel this way, or a family who has a child with security/attachment issues or other challenges.) Do you embrace your 'village', that community of familiar faces which surrounds your child, or do you want the other parent to always defer to you first? What do we gain or lose by pursuing things the way we do? I very obviously think that for our situation, the 'village' model is more beneficial, and I am also wanting to know/understand situations where parents feel that the village isn't most helpful for their child.
Please note that I am not including total strangers in the hypothetical 'village', but friendly faces and known adults/elders or the hosts of an event/visit.
(just to note, I do have a blog and have written around this subject in the past; that said, I am NOT using any of the responses for my blog. This is more for my own personal curiosity and rumination.)
Thanks for everyone's feedback. I think I was a bit surprised to see some extremes here...
While I do agree that kids should not mindlessly obey, I do think a lot of us make sure our kids understand good touch/bad touch and private parts and know the difference between told to sit down quietly (because an adult in charge has requested this) when asked and being told to participate in molestation. I know our family AND our pediatrician are very clear about who gets to touch our son's body and when; we've been very clear about this.
I also think that choosing not to enjoy the village doesn't mean we have kids who are reckless or rude.
There is a middle ground here. We don't have to have the robot kids or the out of control ones.
Anyway, thanks for responding, I appreciate it.
I remember reading in The Wonder of Boys that boys need a "tribe" so, yes, my son knows that his uncles, older cousins, friends parents, adult neighbors, grandparents, etc., have some authority over him and I know they have an impact on making him who he is.
I do think a village approach is wonderful. Yes, there are times when we do things differently. But my kids need to learn that what might not bother us might bother someone else and they need to be respectful of that and if asked to stop then they should to be respectful of those around them and stop.
I absolutely do not mind if someone else stops my child when they are doing something dangerous, stupid or obnoxious. I expect my kids to listen to them as well.
In the circles we are in, typically the adult will let me know about it after the fact and I will further have a small chat with my kids about it. But in the moment, I am more than fine with them saying something if I miss it. I do my best to be mindful of what my kids are doing at all times but there are always those moments I have to step away, like to go to the bathroom or something, where I might miss something.
Interesting.
I have never even questioned this.
My kids were raised to respect adult authority and therefore if someone, be it me or grandma or the lady at the next table asks them to please lower their voice, or stop kicking their seat they would do it immediately.
I don't think I have ever run into anyone truly being rude with these requests (sensitive or picky maybe, but not mean or rude) but my kids are teenagers now so maybe that's just my mommy amnesia LOL!
I HAVE been shocked and surprised in the past by some kids (strangers, like at the park) telling me NO when I asked them to stop doing something. That kind of attitude and complete lack of respect coming from a child is very telling of the kind of teenager and adult they will be :-(
OMG Dana K's response is golden:
"I do NOT teach him to be obedient (I would rather he learn to think, discuss, question and argue) so I do not expect that he will obey an adult who tells him to do something that does not immediately make sense to him."
Immediately makes sense to him?!
He is a child!!!
The only thing that makes "sense" is: I want what I want, when I want it.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when HER son is a teenager LOL!
Anywhoo, of course I believe in the "village."
There are too many clueless parents out there, letting their kids run wild and do whatever they want.
Thank goodness for helpful neighbors, friends, teachers, counselors and other community members willing to step up and guide these "free spirited" children, and teach them how to be respectful, kind members of a civilized society..
I have no trouble with embracing the village as long as everyone is of the 'right" mind with it. In other words that they respond with kindness for the child and in a fair manner. Some people think their child does no wrong. If I trust the people I have no problem with it, if I see that that person has little insight or for-thought or little understanding for children and such I tend to observe and also to be a little more proactive myself.
Personally, I've cared for many children and have had lots of family and always treat each one as individuals and each situation as individual. At the same time I take in account the group. Everyone should be treated the same, basically speaking. Discernment is key, as well as true love for everyone.
I have a hard time accepting village. I see some parents who think there kid can do no wrong. The kids do horrible things behind their mothers backs and the parents act like their kids are angels. I've had parents tell me they back up their kid whether they are right or wrong. I've seen adults look at my daughter's really pretty blonde hair and even though they have not met her give her nasty sneers. Do I want my daughter think thats ok. No sorry not happening. That being said I am first to pull my daughter up short when they misbehave yet watch other parents do nothing while their kids act horribly.
i totally agree with what youre saying.. when my daughter gets older i want her to know that other adults in the family/ close friends should be listened to.. if my aunt tells her no jumping on the couch, she better get her butt of the couch lol.. but i think thats totally different than someone stepping in and acting as a parent or trying to take over.. if i were to tell my daughter she cant do something but my mom for example allowed it, thats something i wouldnt be too thrilled about... help is always welcome, but overstepping boundaries definatley isnt
i always accept family help graciously and thankfully. i would not have made it this far without them! they are our babysitters, counsel during hard times, extra sets of eyes during large gatherings...we have the same morals and values and i know their expectations for my child mirror my own. i'm not one to have "friends" that are close enough to be called family, but if i did have friends i trusted that much, yes, same applies. we have always had wonderful luck with childcare providers and teachers - i have always trusted them with my son's care, 100%, too.
my only issues are when judgment enters into their "help" - which thankfully, RARELY happens in my family. love 'em! :)
I have no problem embracing my village within reason. The problems I have is when a member of the village can only see what someone else's child is doing and not their own (or act line mine is the problem when she was the only one doing what she should be) and/or directs them in complete disagreement with what I have instructed (letting my child do something I have said "no" to or getting on my child for doing as I have directed).
I support the whole village wholeheartedly. If my grand kids are doing something wrong and some one sees them and lets them keep doing it then my grand kids get hurt that person is just as responsible as anyone else. They should have said "Honey, that's pretty dangerous, be careful". Then come and told me. My friends are the same way.
I truly believe that parents who don't want anyone else telling their child they need to stop doing something must be pretty insecure about their parenting ability. They must feel they have to be in total control of their child at all times or they will learn something different that those parents want. I think that kids need to learn from a whole host of situations and parents aren't always the ones there.
As for being at the park or somewhere else where there are strangers there are ways of handling that too. It doesn't always work out but one can hope...lol.
I was at the park one day with my 2 grand kids I am raising. There was another little boy there and he was climbing all over the slide, up the slide then sliding down, never using the steps/ladder part. My grandson knows you're supposed to go up the steps and down the slide part for safety reasons. This other little boy just kept on doing what ever he wanted and him mom never said anything even though she appeared to be watching him well.
Of course the inevitable crash occurred. My grandson came flying down the slide and the little boy started up the slide at the same time. I told my grandson to tell the little boy he was sorry that he got hurt on the slide. That you're supposed to go up the steps and down the slide. The mom got totally pissed at my grandson's "apology". I asked her why she thought he was supposed to be apologizing for and she said for knocking her child down. I explained to her the way a slide worked, she said it didn't matter, kids should play how they wanted...I calmly explained back that if they played inappropriately they often got hurt and this was a great experience to teach that principle. Then we walked to the car and left.
The kids kept asking me what those words she was yelling at me meant but I told them she was speaking a different language and I didn't know.
Kids need to learn rules and often parents are not omnipotent enough to see every little mistake so allowing others that you know and trust is a great way of making sure your child knows that everyone is watching and they can't get away with anything.
Updated
I support the whole village wholeheartedly. If my grand kids are doing something wrong and some one sees them and lets them keep doing it then my grand kids get hurt that person is just as responsible as anyone else. They should have said "Honey, that's pretty dangerous, be careful". Then come and told me. My friends are the same way.
I truly believe that parents who don't want anyone else telling their child they need to stop doing something must be pretty insecure about their parenting ability. They must feel they have to be in total control of their child at all times or they will learn something different that those parents want. I think that kids need to learn from a whole host of situations and parents aren't always the ones there.
As for being at the park or somewhere else where there are strangers there are ways of handling that too. It doesn't always work out but one can hope...lol.
I was at the park one day with my 2 grand kids I am raising. There was another little boy there and he was climbing all over the slide, up the slide then sliding down, never using the steps/ladder part. My grandson knows you're supposed to go up the steps and down the slide part for safety reasons. This other little boy just kept on doing what ever he wanted and him mom never said anything even though she appeared to be watching him well.
Of course the inevitable crash occurred. My grandson came flying down the slide and the little boy started up the slide at the same time. I told my grandson to tell the little boy he was sorry that he got hurt on the slide. That you're supposed to go up the steps and down the slide. The mom got totally pissed at my grandson's "apology". I asked her why she thought he was supposed to be apologizing for and she said for knocking her child down. I explained to her the way a slide worked, she said it didn't matter, kids should play how they wanted...I calmly explained back that if they played inappropriately they often got hurt and this was a great experience to teach that principle. Then we walked to the car and left.
The kids kept asking me what those words she was yelling at me meant but I told them she was speaking a different language and I didn't know.
Kids need to learn rules and often parents are not omnipotent enough to see every little mistake so allowing others that you know and trust is a great way of making sure your child knows that everyone is watching and they can't get away with anything.
I totally agree with this. Even if the parent is right there and is telling the child no jumping on furniture and the child doesn't stop if I'm there I will say something along the lines of " sweetie you need to listen to Mom/Dad". We all know parenting is not easy so saying something to back up the parents is always a good idea.
Even if I am out and about and see a child doing something unsafe I will say something, 'sweetie, wait for Mom and Dad. Or sometimes if I see a parent following a child who is running through a store and the parent is saying Johnny wait, Johnny stop and the child keeps going and laughing, I will step in the child's path, not touching them just blocking them and laughing with them, until the parent catches up.
I'm on both sides of this fence :) !
I trust my family implicitly. They DO occasionally make mistakes, but they're honest in them, and people handle things differently (not mistakes). I LOVE that I have my parents, sibs, and close friends (that I regard as family) in active & guiding roles in my son's life. He has sooooooo many people who love him!
While in preschool & later homeschooling... I got to hand pick the teachers/coaches/other adults in his life. I'm rabidly biased (hey, I chose them!) ... But I loooooooved that village as well.
Keep in mind we moved 8 times in 5 years: MANY of the neighbors we have had were PHENOM. I could trust them totally with my son. REALLY great communities.
Jumping back into homeschooling... In addition to all of his coaches, teachers, friend's parents... We were also really active in our community. From the gas station, postal workers, grocery, dim sum, etc... My son had a LOT of adults in his life that he'd interact with 5-15 minutes a day.
(The irony, is people -now that we're back in public school after 5 years talk about how much "more" social he is. Ummm... No. Homeschooling we dealt with apx 100 -of the same- people every week year round, and 400 per year -different sports, drama productions, etc- in public school he has about 6 adults in the school, and 40 classmates, and 50 people year round. So being in public school he has 20% of the social exposure he had while homeschooling. His 'village' is soooooo much smaller, now!)
Which leads me to the other side of the fence.
His dad is a jerk. At best. He's an abusive alcoholic. He comes from a family that makes him look like Mother Theresa. I trust neither him, nor his family, one iota. He's almost killed MJ son more times than I can count, puts him in dangerous situations daily, and is emotionally and verbally destructive.
As a confirmed workaholic, in addition to the rest, I didn't have to worry much while we were married (120 hour work weeks = not a lot of time home).
But the courts gave him 50/50 custody (I HATE Washington state)
In addition to his fine self (fortunately the courts DID ban him from taking our son to see his family... Convicted pedophiles, gang bangers, addicts, etc.), he has him in daycare that has been sanctioned so many times for blatant violations (overcrowding, no background checks on staff... And when run, many showed up with crimes against children... Injuries, substandard equip, etc.) that its being forcibly shut down after 2 years of monthly warnings. (Its the cheapest option around... He very why my 6figureSalary ex chose it).
And then there's the public school conundrum: of there being no input from parents whatsoever. No teacher choices, no oversight, etc. that's just public school. Most of the time its FINE... But it does mean that if you get a bad teacher or a group of bullies... You're up a creek.
And even the good teachers (and my son has awesome teachers!) keep giving my son bad advice (like trust his father, I'm sure he just wants the best for you, etc.)... Because they don't know better. Its driving my son's counselor nuts... Because the school keeps telling my son to do stuff that is putting my son in danger.
So, yah. 6 of 1, half a dozen of the next.
LOVE the Village & Ive seen the village and I don't want it raising my child.
i'm totally with you.
most of the parents i know who brag about how they 'get up in that _'s face for daring to speak to my child!' have monsters.
i doubt anyone wants to return to the days when adults felt free to hit or yell at other people's kids. but a word of reminder, or even a gentle admonishment?
it is good for kids to learn to at least listen to and consider what an adult is telling them. it doesn't mean they'll turn into obedient robots and climb into a fiend's car. it just means (or it should) that they realize that the world is large and they can learn from a variety of caring people in it.
khairete
S.
