Do I Issue the Stop Drinking Ultimatum?

No, I'd work on being more indirect and subtle. He has to want to please you, so work on getting him to like you more and to want to please you, and he will give it up on his own. If you would like some more insight, visit the blog What Women Never Hear at http://wwnh.wordpress.com -- wonderful blog!

No ultimatum - yet.

My name is Dad OP, and I'm an alcoholic.

Alcohol to us is simply how we function. We consider ourselves to be "the peice of sh*t at the center of the universe". Read that again - piece of sh*t...center of universe. AA for me was like Life 101 - the remedial class.

All the things you normal people learned while growing up - consider other people, you can't control anything but yourself. I had to go learn that out of a book, and in meetings with a bunch of drunks.

Al-Anon is for the family of alcoholics (whether a parent, husband or child). It's where you go to understand him and what he's thinking - and you and what you're thinking. It's a place to talk to people that are in your exact shoes and ask them what they did.

As for the ultimatum, I would say after you try Al-Anon, ask the therapist, call a rehab facility about an intervention AND try to drag him to AA meetings - then yes - i would stage an intervention with friends and family (and preferably a counselor from a rehab), and give him the ultimatum.

Hi michele-

My ex is/was an alcoholic. We had been to several marriage counseling sessions when alcohol consumption came up. He declined to go to other sessions.

I went to alanon for a while...'distance with love' was the message I got there, and frankly my once 'great love' for him was withering to contempt.

I stayed in the marriage (and in counseling for myself for a LONG while) and his drinking continued to increase. Then, in a drunken stupor, something unspeakable happened.

I divorced him.

The kids...funnily enough are mostly relieved. He has a 'free pass' to see the kids anytime he wants...he need only be sober.

He did not attend the HS graduations of our 2 most recent grads. He has not seen the 'younger' 5 kids in over 3 years now. I am in and out of court for support issues. Our family home was foreclosed on due to his failure to pay...the list goes on.

He has remarried...I actually like his new wife. She married him...in FULL denial that he had any drinking issues...He was hospitalized last year for liver issues....

I cannot be objective about this...I have lived a nightmare...BUT I will say...stay in counseling for YOURSELF! No matter what happens with your hubby, working on yourself...and 'your' issues will only serve to prepare you for whatever the future holds.

Best Luck!
michele/cat

*private me if you wish!

ONLY do this if you're willing to follow through.

Yes. I've done this. Because I really WAS done.

Use specific words. X or you need to move out. X or I'm filing for divorce. X or I'm moving out.

"Done" is pretty vague. ALSO, think about what would change your mind. If he's still a jerk when he's NOT drinking... then it really isn't the drinking... it's the being a jerk. If he's never home because he's out drinking... it isn't the drinking, it's not being home.

It's usually pretty easy to assign blame on one "thing"... but it's rarely the "thing" that is at fault. Meaning that simple ultimatums don't usually work so well. Either you NOT actually willing to divorce on the spot / only mean move out for awhile... or it's just manipulation... or it's not the simple thing (meaning they quit drinking and become 10x the jerk, the problem isn't gone).

I would suggest going to your therapist solo to have a lengthy and frank discussion about ALL the things that are dealbreakers for you, and which of those things are tied up in the drinking.

But once you've drawn that line in the sand, there's no coming back from it. Because if you aren't ready/willing to follow through... you lose a lot more.

never issue an ultimatum unless you are truly at peace with it backfiring on you, which it sounds like you are. I would propose this question of the therapist and see what advice you are given. It all depends on how you go about it. For instance .... "when you choose to drink, you choose to seperate yourself from your family. Get help, show that you are committed to quitting, and I will support you 100%. But if you choose to continue drinking, you choose to be apart from us. You will need to find somewhere else to go when you are drunk"
that would go alot farther than - its either the bottle or us.

AFTER READING YOUR SO WHAT HAPPENED:

It has nothing to do with what you are asking. If he is unwilling to make some changes, are you? Are you strong enough to leave or ask him to leave unless he agrees to enter a program? If he's "high functioning or not" what are you going to do to improve your mental state and unhappy situation?

You can issue an ultimatum but unless you are prepared to follow through with a permanent break, or it will mean nothing.

Have you considered a separation and giving him six month or so to clean up his act? This way the road to divorce will be gradual or the road to reconcilliation will grow stronger.

Do you have children? If so how are they doing?

Blessings...

You can't give an alcoholic an ultimatum to stop drinking. Alcoholics are always always alcoholics like a diabetic is always a diabetic. Sobriety is a lifestyle choice that takes commitment, therapy, and support. And most often does not happen overnight.

Explore Al-anon for yourself. Encourage him to begin Alcohol Anonymous meetings. If needed, try in or outpatient therapy for his alcoholism. But, he must first admit that he has a problem... that is the first step in recovery.

For yourself - stay in therapy. It will help you make the life decisions that you need to make. If you are beyond caring, then it may be time to walk away - for your own health.

My father was brilliant and talented. And he was called a high functioning alcoholic for years - but, ultimately, there really is no such thing. He went to work, paid bills, etc. but he was not there emotionally for the family, and eventually, his drinking interfered with his job, and he lost it. After that, it was a painful, and slow, downward spiral that caused irreparable damage to himself and everyone around him. It was tragic to see and something I separated myself from when I was in my 20's. He had dried out by the time my son was born but literally was not the man he used to be (the term is wet brain), and died 1.5 years later.

I feel for you - it is a hard thing to deal with.
Please take care of yourself.
God Bless

That's not really the way it works with addicts. If you are ready to make that ultimatum, then be ready to separate.
An addict/alcoholic is not going to stop because you say he should.
Maybe I'm confused because it sounds like your therapist is implying it is BECAUSE you guys argue that he drinks? Poppycock.
Any good addict can find 10,000 reasons a day to use/drink.

I suspect that (hopefully) he means that once the alcohol issue is addressed, you will have less TO argue about and he will be relating with a clear, sober mind (win/win) but you cannot MAKE him do anything. He is free to choose to get help, just as you are free to end the relationship if you're "done" dealing with his drinking.
Have you ever attended an Alanon meeting? It might really help you.
All the best.

While I am sure I would want to do the same if I were in your shoes. I think you need to work within the confines of the counseling. It has been 16 years of needing counseling. Things will not change overnight and you can't expect overnight results. Could you increase the frequency of your counseling sessions?

What does your counselor suggest?

As a former alcoholic myself, I can tell you that HE has to want to be motivated to not drink. It is possible that he doesn't care either at this point (and in answer to your question, I, too, have been at the point even in my current marriage where I don't care - but we were able to hang in and move past that). Remember that YOU are the only one you have control over. Thoughtfully consider what YOU need to do to regain sanity. A legal separation may be the first step, letting him know that he must be sober to re-enter your home and life. You will quickly know what he is going to choose. You must be prepared that this is the end of your relationship. If you are there emotionally, then this may be the only way to save things. Please attend some Al-anon meetings (for family and friends of alcoholics) before you make any big decisions. This has been going on 16 years. Taking your time to work through what the right answer is deserves a little time, assuming you aren't in any physical or major emotional danger. My best to you.

You just started counseling and want to tell him it's over before giving the therapy a chance? This is not the way to think this through unless you are already done and are only going through the motions.

He may not be ready to consider stopping drinking. He may not care if you issue the ultimatum or not. He may not think he has a problem, sort of like not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.

What I'm trying to say is this:

When we are more vulnerable, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, our mouth is able to spout off stuff we normally keep to ourselves. Being a guy, he probably holds a lot of stuff inside and does not have a healthy way of getting it out of his system. Therefore when the alcohol loosens his lips, things spout out that he normally represses. They are not always the real thing he is thinking/feeling either.

When kids are mad at us they yell they hate us, their mouth is working without the benefit of their filter keeping the stuff inside. They don't really hate us, they are angry and hurt. They are saying the worst thing they can think of to try and hurt us emotionally because they are hurting emotionally and blame us.

So, I would say give the therapy at least 6 months, with him and you both going jointly then perhaps some private too. That way you can each work on things for yourselves and then the relationship as a whole too.

If, after 6 months, he is still feeling the same way and not benefiting from the therapy talk to the therapist about the ultimatum. They may be able to say with some familiarity if it will work or if finding an attorney is the next step.

I think that marriage counseling is a big deal and that many times it takes a while to see a big change. I would give it as much time as possible.

Dad on purpose gave good advice.

I have heard that addicts/alcoholics do not get in relationships, they take hostages.
It sounds like you are a hostage to whether or not he decides to drink that night, what he drinks, how much he drinks, what his mood will be.
You may still love the person he is but that perception is clouded by the drinking.
If you are asking for advice, I'd say, separate and see what happens. Al Anon will help you see your part in this.

I have experienced almost the exact same thing. I tried for a long time to "communicate" with him, only to be frustrated because what worked one time didn't the next. He also was a functioning alcoholic, but in my opinion (and my counselor's), likely has bipolar disorder as the root, the alcohol is a form of self-medication. I later discovered through therapy that it is nearly impossible to communicate effectively with a person who has been drinking. Rational thinking is one of the qualities that is severely limited by alcohol consumption, and is a requirement for effective communication. The blame might be shifted to you, and you might feel responsible, but you are only responsible for yourself (including how you allow others to treat you). In making an "ultimatum" that he seek help for his drinking, use "I statements", rather than blaming statements. Example: instead of saying "You're such a jerk when you're drunk, either you quit or I'm leaving!", you would rephrase as "I find that it is a lot easier for me to talk to you when you are like this". I think your counselor can guide you on what is most appropriat for you to say after that. Of course, this means that he HAS to be sober at the moment you are talking to him. If you've already tried this, a group intervention or an intervention from someone else might be appropriate.
The only way to heal in the relationship is get him to realize how it is damaging himself, you, and your marriage, and inspire him to make a change. Otherwise, you need to do what is best for you. I left, and it was hard. About six months after I left, he sought help. I had become so numb in the relationship, that it took four months after that for me to want to go to counseling with him. I also took that time (10 months) to take stock of myself. I have made a lot of changes. Though we are NOT at fault for what others do, we are at fault if we continue on in the same manner. If you are numb, you likely have lost perspective on healthy relationships. One of the most helpful and most painful things I did was to go spend time around happy, healthy families. NOT the ones that seem perfect, but the ones you know that have disagreements and work them out. It helped me reset my "normal" and made me realize just how bad things were. The other thing was talking to friends that knew me well, though it was embarrassing. It helped that I wasn't responsible for hiding anything anymore, and honestly, they ALL knew what was going on but were afraid that maybe they were wrong or that they'd alienate me if they asked about it.

It's only potentially effective if you mean to follow through with your ultimatum.

My SIL finally gave my brother the ultimatum, and I'm so happy to say that it worked! He chose his family over booze, and actually gave up drinking. I didn't think he had it in him.

From experience.....you can give the ultimatum, but they can not stop or should not stop drinking for you because that will never work. They have to stop for themselves.

the first person I was engaged to was an alcoholic, but at that time oh so many years ago I did not know what that meant or was.....really. In and out of halfway houses and trying to no avail.....wedding called off...luckily.

Next man I met told me he was an alcoholic, but compared to the last guy I was with he was nothing. (you would think I was a booze magnet and I don't even care for drinking myself) and I did marry him which ended in divorce. Yes he was and is still an alcoholic.

So from experience you either accept it and learn to live with it especially if THEY choose not to stop or you move on with your life. The choice is not an easy one.

I have been remarried for almost 20 years now so life has been good after all the bumps in the road.

Good luck on this one.

First of all I say no to the ultimatum. Next I suggest Alanon. I didn't attend for long, but it sure helped. Lastly, you might say no to the Jack and let the rest go. I know that's what my MIL did and she and my FIL came to an agreement.

My husband drinks too. He functions highly. Has a good job and strong work ethic. He supports us and never drinks when taking my son to activities. I choose not to focus on it. I find the more I do, the more it bothers me. I hate to say it, but I ignore him when he starts slurring.his words. I go to bed. Thankfully, we have a guest room also, so if he is too drunk when he comes to bed I sleep in there.

He has enough other great qualities that for now this one I can live with.

wow, first of all, how did u stay together for 16 years? i've just become victim of drinker/gambler husband. married 5 years. yes, i completely understand being beyond caring. and u have to care to give ultimatums, i reckon. i only cared about how his drinking lifestyle was affecting our 4-year-old son. so i told him to find a job in another country, and he promptly left. but only down the street. pathetic. obviously 5 years of non-communication will lead to disaster no matter what the problem is, but i'm not sure that the marriage could've been saved by communication or therapy, as the problem of drinking/gambling was 100% on him. and of course, our core values were totally different, which i found out too late. i would suggest counseling only if u r both on the same page regarding core values. in my case, the only goal i had was making sure my son had two parents, which is why i put up with it for 5 years, and would've continued to put up with it. but spouse doesn't share those values. .... anyway, in my experience, drinking/gambling is a permanent condition that destroys everything in its path. :-(