Disipline... and Adult Sabotage! (More like a RANT!)

My mother used to keep my son (her grandson) and she would set a timer and challenge him to get the room cleaned up in 15 minutes then change the time smaller as he advanced.

Also, even though it is the child's room or in the living room toys are scattered, I read a book that said to praise and thank children for the work they do, because that makes them proad to accomplish things. Guess what--it worked with my children.

The parents get to decide how they wish to discipline their children. The grandparents already had their chance. I believe you are being fair. I say if you decide to write an email to all, that you don't send it out after drafting it. Wait a day. Re-read it. Have a partner read it. Have a friend read it. Wait another day and re-read it. Then send it. Best of luck!

These boys are 4-years-old and it sounds to me like you are a bit of a control freak. It's okay to teach them but it sounds to me that you want them to do this or that exactly like you think they should... have you considered letting these kids be kids. And the 'grandparents get to break rules" part... grandparents were grown to be able to spoil their grandkids. Now when my grandkids were young and some still are, there are rules but yet there is spoiling.

I think you need to take a deep breath and calm down. Let the kids be kids and you can do so while still enforcing rules but don't be so freaking controlling.

Hi C.,
It sounds to me like you're doing a great job with your sons! You have a system that works, and that is all that matters. Channel your inner CEO, and the next time a family member tries to tell your kids what to do, firmly tell that family member that all directives need to come through you FIRST. You do not need to go into your reasons why, because frankly it's nobody's business. So if one of the grandparents declares that it's clean up time, you can tell them, "If you want to pick up Bobby and Joey's toys for them, that's fine, but our rule is that we clean up once per day before bathtime. To avoid confusion in the future, you'll need to run your requests by me first rather than telling the boys directly." Just keep repeating this every time someone makes a request of your kids. Eventually they'll get it.

This tends to happen a lot around our house when my parents come visit. I have a 4 year old who is very routine-oriented and has a very hard time transitioning between activities. Her older sister is not like this at all, so my parents have no idea how to handle my little one. No matter how many times I tell them how WE do things, they insist on doing things "their way" with the logic that it worked for me when I was little, and it worked with my older daughter... it's very frustrating. Finally I said to my parents, "Remember how when I was young, and thought something was unfair, you used to tell me that when I grew up and became the mommy, I could make up any rules I wanted? Well, these are the rules I made up!!" It was a light-hearted way to get the point across that it's my house, and we go by my rules, not theirs! =)

I say send your email, sister! They're your kids and it's your house, and if you have a system that's working to keep yourself sane, then your family needs to support you and follow along. We only have one child, but I do still feel the same sort of sabotage from family. Over the last couple years I've learned to choose my battles with the family, too. But I've lately found when I bite my tongue on the family it has negative consequences for my daughter and/or our good behavior. So my vote is tell them, and like you said, if they don't like it, they can stay home! (Oh, but it'd be good to get your spouse on board if you're sending to his family members, too.) Hope that helps. Good luck!

It is hard as an outsider to imagine exactly how these situations go down but when your family decides to announce "clean-up time" why can't you just say that we clean up later in the day before bath and bedtime. You could even say that if they feel that it needs to be clean right now they can pick up a few toys on their own but it is not the boys job right now. It can be done in an easy going, even joking voice. If they don't want to clean they probably won't announce a clean up time again :)

you could just tell them all; "i'm having some issues with the boys, and we have found that our family routine works better when it isn't changed at the last minute and as much as we appreciate your visits, we are asking that everyone who visits the boys and us respects our house rules, wefind that it relaxes our children and lets them know whats expected of them, its much easier on us and we get better behavior out of them. if anyone feels the urge to encourage the boys to do anything, please make a game out of it so that our children don't become confused and feel that the routine has changed.

lots of love
XXXXXXX

its just an idea; that way its just informative to them as to what is help and what isn't and you can expect to have an easier time on their visits; if not feel brave and stand up for yourself, everyone knows motherhood and raising children is difficult and they will most likely understand once they have calmed down...

I don't have any great advice, but I have had similar issues with my family. I just wanted to say that I think you are 100% right and making the right choices and are handling/disciplining your kids the right way, especially under the circumstances. Good for you! Perhaps your family e-mail idea is a good solution, sounds diplomatic enough. I almost wrote a "rant" like yours over a month ago. I got to the point where I decided that I had to say my peace to the offending parties (in a concise, fair, meaningful, and calm way) and if they didn't like it and disowned me, then well, maybe it would just make my life easier!
Do what's right for your kids and yourself.
I wish you the best,
C.

Your are right, C., you are ranting!!! But oh it feels good too, right!

I agree with you - clean up once per day. If others don't like it, then too bad. I have learned the hard way too, and my living rooms gets clened up once per day now too, so I am glad someone else does tis.

And share this with your family, as you have planned. Let them know the reasons why. If they come over, take them to the kitchen to talk, or outside on the deck.

But especially, I feel that you Should Not let your family tell your sons what they should be doing, and getting them to do tasks you have not scheduled them for. If you drew a more strict boundary, you will feel less tired, and I am sure your guests would feel happier too because they know where they stand. It sounds like its way too confusing for your boys. Adults are not always right, and respect works both ways. I would not want any of my family or friends coming over and telling everyone hat to do - that is very disrespectful to you and your kids. Stick up for yourself and your kids, and demand more respect in your home.

Your kids need a little more understanding it seems, when it comes to tasks. You are modeling GREAT patient behavior to them, so teach others too to respect them and show calmness to them. What is it with adults bossing around kids ? - one day they will talk back, and it will be adults who get the surprise. Nowadays, and as the kids get older, developing a conversation about pros and cons of issues and how others are affected buy decisions helps them get on the right track - we ought to be done with the days of bossing and directing.

Keep up the good work!, P.

I have to agree with you. Your children understand the rules you have set up for your house. You have enforced and made them follow those rules, thereby commanding their respect for your authority as their parent.

If family members come to your house and "change" the established rules, they, not you, should be in charge of making them comply. Children need to know that they should respect an adult's authority by obeying. However, if the adult does not take charge and make it happen, they are not due that respect. Also, children need to understand that different people have different rules, whether it is within your house or at someone else's house, they need to follow adult authority, but those adults must earn it. It should not be your battle!

I think you need to talk to your family members to inform them of your "house rules" and the struggles you have had getting the children to follow them. Tell the family that if they want the children to do something outside of normal house rules, they, not you should be in charge of the situation and command the respect for their authority as a means of teaching the children those lessons.

I totally understand...I have a stubborn 4yo and although at times family members did not understand that I choose NOT to fight every battle with her, they are beginning to get it now that I explained the situation. They don't always like it, but they stay out of it unless they want to mete out the commands and/or discipline. You will probably find that they do not want to be in charge of your children and may continue to make disapproving comments, which you just ignore completely, but they will butt out of making commands on the children in your home. Take care and try not to stress!

First of all let me just say WOW!!!! That sounds really frustrating! It sounds to me like the response you are planning on making is appropriate. I think sending your e-mail to everyone like you said is a good way to do it too. Does your husband stand behind you on this decision? but it really seems to me like you are heading in the right direction and handling it all appropriately.

Hello C.,

My name is J. and I am the mother of Twin Girls Born 02/05 :) I definately agree that you have to pick your battles and follow through is KEY! It sounds like some of your family members and not on the same page. I think sending out a email would be a great way to everyone on the same page and not be pointing fingers. However, if everyone wants the BEST for the boys, they need to take the direction from you and follow your rules, so that the boys are not confused and they are not getting mixed messages. I have learned that clean up time is usually best at the end of the day, because the toys just come back out again....lol If we are doing painting or a craft project however, we clean up after the project is completed...and mom helps with this. I have also found a great Responsibility Chart that I use with my girls. It's magnetic and helps teach and reinforce the importance of responsibility and promotes a sense of accomplishment. It is made by Doug & Melissa Inc. I purchased them at Toys R Us, however their number is 1-800-284-3948. I wish you the best with the boys and before you know it you will blink and they will be heading off to College :)

Take Care,
J.

Hi C.,
I don't have other suggestions for you, mainly because I think you are all over this on your own. Just a little note of support. I think you are a super mom and that you are right on target with your plans. I don't think many people know how hard it is to take care of twins all by yourself. It's not just twice the work, it's more like 2,5x the work, albeit so very rewarding. I also think your idea to email your family is excellent. I'm also a mom of wonderful twins - and I'll be stealing some of your ideas with my family :) Good luck.

Sounds like you have gotten good at remaining calm with the kids, time to use those skills on the unruly grownups. Maybe one thing to do would be to find a time before the grandparents have started doing their thing and just really calmly let them know what it is that you are doing with the boys, how and why you think it works and ask them for their support (maybe suggest things they can do to help). It's probably important to lay it out in a non-accusatory way to them and let them know that while you appreciate the motivation behind what they do normally, you are working hard to do what's best for your kids which is by doing things this other way. It's your house, they're your kids, you get to make the rules (get your partner on board with this too, you can present a united front). If the grandparents want it clean before clean-up time, then they should do it themselves, in my opinion. It sounds like they are expecting you to conform to their expectations in your own home. You could also try training your kids to help you train the grandparents, like you say "When do we clean up our toys?" and they say, "Before bath" or whatever then you say, "Does Mommy make you do it before that?" and they say "no" in front of the grandparents so that the gp know that you have rules and standards and that the kids know what they are. If the system you have devised works for you and your kids, it is up to the other grownups to conform to your wishes when they are guests in your house.

OMG!! I read your post and had to laugh. I have the exact same problem. I can't tell you how many times I have started a group email and then just didn't finish it or completed it but didn't send it. And then when we have everyone together (like yesterday for Father's Day) I get to listen to the grandparents talk about what I'm doing wrong and how my kids "know they can get away with things" when I'm around. AHHHH!!

Personally, everything you are doing sounds perfectly fine to me. I too have the "pick your battle" mentality. But then when they come over I get "looks" and feel the pressure that I have to discipline my kids for things that I normally would not even think twice about. I wish I had an answer for you, but I'm curious to hear what others say. I never did send my emails out, but maybe that will do the trick. I'd love to hear how that goes.

Good luck!!!!

Hi C.,

I think your decision if quite fair! huraay for you to stand up for yourself.

I would recommend talking to them in person rather than through email if it is at all possible. The written word can be SO easily misconstrued. Much of our communication is done through verbal inflection, eye contact,and reading facial signs and gestures. This is all lost on an email, and so your TONE can come off totally opposite than what is intended.
This is going to be a touchy thing for them, just be tender and you should be fine!
Good luck,
Gail

***sigh***Don't you LOVE family??!! Luckily, i let everyone know way before our son was born that I MAKE THE RULES!!! The only person who tries to push the envelope and try to change how things go in our house is MY SISTER!! Of course, it has to be my family!! But, I put her in her place right away and let her know that what she is saying is not how we do things in our house!! She backed up and shut her mouth!
I wouldn't send an e-mail; just verbally share with them how things are ran in your household and that they need to respect that. If they cannot, well, then you decide what happens.
Good luck to you and your family!

Hi C.,

It sounds like a simple conversation would do just fine. It sounds like your family is trying to "give you a break" and help you with the boys.......not even knowing that they are making life more difficult for you and the boys.

Just talk to them. An email might be insulting to them, and that would take things in the reverse direction :O)

~N. :o)

C.,
It sounds like your sons have what my son has. It's called a processing disorder. WE can not give him more than one thing to do at a time, or he forgets what he was supposed to do and nothing gets done. Then it becomes an argument as to what he has to do and why. He also has a mild form of ADD, and went to speech therapy for 10 years. (since he was 2). He is now 15 and doing much better now, it all depends on the teachers. He has to have structure. SO, tell your family that you are the parent/teacher, and this is your structure for your kids
and it's what works best. You could also consider training them to put something away when they are done with it each time, then it won't be so much of a struggle when it comes to nite time chores. (just a thought) My middle child told us once what slobs her brother and sister were. They at the time all shared a room...I never knew how true that was until we got them all their own rooms....wow was she right!!!! Anyway, good luck, and tread tactfully in your e-mail to them...
they still need relatives that visit. My kids don't have any the either passed on, or moved out of state.
W. M.

Hehehe - I have a little boy who is almost 3 and not speech delayed and he also can't handle more than one instruction at once. I have to coach him through clean up time too and sometimes, if he is having too hard a time we just stop and go straight to getting ready for bed (since it is generally a sign of being too tired) He's also very persistent and gets to do more things than most kids because otherwise we'd fight all day! My hat's off to you for surviving two of them!
Our parents live on the east coast and only come out a couple times a year, but we have no quams about telling them ahead of time what the schedule is and the rules are or reminding them if needed. They're starting to get it and respect us in our role as the parents. The only drawback is that you might not get babysitting help so easily anymore - but you gotta live daily life! I think your open letter is a great idea, actually. Just make sure to sleep on it and edit it before you email it out.

My Mother in law is always trying to do things her way when she visits, an my kids look at her like she is nuts! I am sorry for your frustration level- especially when it is over situations in your own house!

You will know better than most if your family can handle a mass email. In my family, it would be taken as bitchy and heartless rather than in a vein of understanding as intended. Perhaps you could invoke "expert opinion", such as : the boys' pediatrician recommended that we keep directions simple, so I just have the boys clean the play area once a day.

Four-year-olds are notorious feet-draggers, and I can only imagine what two at once must be like! You are wise to pick your battles. If they insist on ignoring your wishes, maybe, as the other mom said below, kindly saying that it's not in your routine is a good idea. I hope you find a workable solution!

C.,you are doing great things with your boys. I think really explaining to the "family" how things work is a great way to help them understand.

Stephanie

C.!
HAULT! i have not used this saying in years..but it stands for do not get too Hungrey.
Angry..(forget the U?) Lonely or Tired.

I hear you. Overwhelmed. Well Intentioned. Worn down.

Do not write the email. If you write one. Send it to yourself and wait two weeks.

Email is not the venue.

Also, as a mother of two intense young kids, one with speech and lanquage, auditory delay and as a woman who needs order, take heed.

Create a visual calender and schedule.
Draw or cut out pictures of when is when, what is what...
Laminate it.
Post it..

To the grandparents defense, you have people in your life coming to help.
THAT IS awesome.. This is not to say they can break rules but you can help them understand by loaning them some books on the language development.

Also, kids with speech and language delays (be sure to explain to them that speech is the ability to talk, language is how we speak, process information, socialize, engage) relies on everyone's support.

Here is where you and I might differ (which is ok:)..but children with these issues tend to need order more than most. Not rigid order but to be able to follow directions, they need a lot of visual order..so labeled baskets, choosing just a few toys and a time, then "put back" teachers them some much needed and harder to aquire skills, especially if either of them have motor planning issues.

The twin issue also bodes a lot on you because they are different and same all at once.
Hang in there :) you are doing great..I hear the overwhelm..make sure to schedule some quiet time for you!
Feel free to email me if you have questions.

I really dont have anything else to add..I think you are headed in the right direction..and just as stated below..I think person to person talk is better then email too..Peaole tend to take things the wrong way reading something. But good for you for standing up for yourself and your family..Thumbs up to you :)

C. Z

hello C....

it is YOUR house and they are YOUR children, so whatever YOU decide are the rules with regard to IT and THEM...well then too bad for everyone else. by the way you should never feel as if letting your, less than capable of doing so neatly, children prepare their own sandwich is letting them get away with something...sure you do so because you would rather not incite a hungry independent riot, but parents who choose to stand firm on "no mommy's making the sandwiches" because letting them do so would take longer be messier, and require more work, are not taking the opportunity to truly experience the joys of parenthood...i know that the process of letting them do for themselves is very time consuming, but i bet at bedtime when going over the events of your day with them, you have many more positive beautiful pictures of happy children then say the mommy who takes up every battle, well, simply because she is the mommy and has no time for indulging messy children, after all it's also these mommies that have to clean the playroom for the fifth time today... enjoy your kids at a kids pace and in a kids space they will be beautiful happy adults one day and thank you for it. on a side note, that mommy with the perfect house, perfect kids and perfect smile is probably losing her mind trying to keep up with herself and her poor children are miserable i'm sure of it.

here, by the way is my helpful hint to you. you said the grandparents are at your home often and i assume by often you mean much too often...so the next time one of the grandparents insists on sabotaging your harmonious home with "TIME TO CLEAN UP"...try this; with your hands held firmly on your hips as you stand in the middle of a toy laden playroom floor with a larger than life smile on you lips and a bit of that crazed wild eyed mommy look we can all get when we're about to go off the deep end in your eyes, answer back loudly and for all to hear..."heck no grandma WE like it this way" then look to your children who will surely be looking at you somewhat confused, and nodding at them smile and say, "huh boys" getting them to join your stand against sabotage, then you can face grandma and add; "at least until after dinner, because that's when we like to tuck all our toys in for the night"..."but until then nothing goes into the toy box, unless the boy's decide THEY want to put something into the toy box, or choose to put THEIR things away, it is a free for all and the toys only come out of the toy box"..."but if you don't like it grandma, YOU can put our stuff away."

sure you might be the topic of family conversation for a while but with this spreading news will come less visitors, and probably a whole bunch of offers to help you out...and heck take advantage of their concern and generosity, it will make them feel good let someone drop off a home cooked meal one night a week, and another pick up a couple of loads of laundry on another night of the week, and why not let one of the others do your weekly grocery shopping on yet another night of the week. but thank them and deny their offers after about the third or fourth week,you don't want to be greedy or take advantage of those you truly do love and care for and besides with all the extra time you've had with your boys after three or four weeks, you will have just about gained every step back they sabotaged of your progress. by allowing them the opportunity help out with those time and energy draining chores that would have and could have done on your own without incident, you can involve them in your lives without involving them in your lives...they'll feel good, you'll feel good, your boy's, and they are the most important here, will feel good...everybody feels good. so why not put your foot down, and then for three or four weeks put your feet up, except for after dinner, the one time in your day YOU choose to help YOUR boys pick up their toys.

You've gotten a lot of good responses here that I agree with as well. I also say, no need to explain the 'why' behind what you do or justify yourself & your routines, just explain the routines to the grandparents. I also agree that an email may be taken the wrong way so maybe a phone call before the visit would work. We also have a 4 yo who has a sliight speech delay, as well, & even tho we have a playroom right by the living room w/plenty of space, toys are constantly being dragged into the living room & then it looks like a cyclone hit it! Personally, it drives me crazy to step around all the toys throughout the day so kudos to you for being tolerant of that! I 'help' him clean up one thing before he drags out another thing. When my parents or my in-laws are visiting, I make sure that our son keeps his toys to a relatively smaller mess (if that's possible!) & somewhat out of the way cuz I'm worried that the g-parents will trip & hurt themselves somehow....especially my somewhat frail-ish MIL. I don't want to sound like the devil's advocate here but, could it be that the g-arents are worried about tripping & getting hurt? At 4, your boys are old enough understand about getting hurt from tripping over something (or the toys being broken from getting stepped on) so maybe you can talk w/them b4 the visit about keeping things somewhat contained or out of the path of traffic. Best of luck!

Hi!
Take a deep breath, you're doing just great! I have this same problem with some members of my family. The other thing I'd add when talking to the adults is "don't ask something of them if you don't intend to follow through, whether it is helping them do whatever chore or putting them in timeout for not doing it"... the person who STARTS the task/discipline whatever must FINISH it. if someone else jumps in, respect for the first person drops and they're seen as a pushover. I have the opposite problem, someone else catches them in something and then I'm called in to discipline. Doesn't work that way. I didn't see the transgression. YOU did. YOU warn them or put them in time out. Same goes if I see it and start disciplining... don't jump in... g-pa's are especially guilty of this!!! Like they're magically going to stop or do whatever if g-pa says so! My husband is lots better about letting me handle it if I start it and I've learned to stay out if he starts it, too. I've also learned that the more adults are around, the more they act up... more witnesses??? If the other adults in your family still are resistant, maybe suggest they take a look at Supernanny (the book)... it covers a lot of those kinds of things and how to deal with them. Awesome writing and lots better than the show! Good luck!

Rant away dear! I would too if my family was basically undermining my decisions all the time. :o) First, I would like to say that most two year olds can only handle one instruction at a time. This is normal and not a 'disorder', just being two. With that in mind I wouldn't try to explain to your family about how to handle 'these' kids, just take it from the position that in your house this is the way you've decided to handle clean-up. It works for you and your boys, and they need to respect that. If the clutter really starts to bother them during the day, they are welcome to pick up a few toys that the boys are not currently playing with, but they may not ask the boys to do it. Nor may they grumble about 'having to clean up for you'.

Please explain to them that while you understand their point of view, your house is yours and your kids are yours. Therefore, the decision about clean-up (and everything else in your house, regarding your kids) is yours.

I also wanted to say that allowing them to make their own sandwiches (or whatever) is great! I always did that. How else are they going to learn things? Everyday kids are exploring their world and making discoveries. It is great that you realize that those discoveries don't require a huge outing. The kitchen can be quite the adventure and the discoveries can be very practical. How do you spread peanut butter anyway? :o) By the time my kids were in first grade they were able to get up with an alarm, get their own breakfast (dishes in dishwasher), get dressed, and pack their own lunch for school. This is not a miracle, just taking it one step/skill/instruction at a time, and not making a big deal of the messes and mistakes along the way. Far from letting your boys 'getting away with' stuff, you are preparing them for an independent life. Well done!

C.,

That was quite a RANT! Good that you got things off your chest and hopefully you have NOT sent out a family email...BECAUSE, if you want to create more DRAMA and distance yourself from family, that would surely do it.

Why don't you make a chart for the boy's a post it where everyone can see it. PLAY TIME, NAP TIME, BATH TIME, BED TIME, PICK UP TOYS TIME (etc.)...Then if someone who is just VISITING, starts in on them or you, you can just say, "We have a chart that we go by, it's not time for the boys to do this or that right now".

I would definately NOT send out a mass email.

Blessings.....