Desparate for Sleep

L.,

I recommend the Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Wisebluth, M.D. This is a practical book with straightforward suggestions.

Good luck,
kerstin

I think she knows that you can't take cry it out but in this case a few awful nights of cry it out will have her sleeping peacefully soon. Since she naps fine, she does know how to fall asleep herself but she doesn't want to at night. I think you have to brave the elements and put her in her bed/crib and then leave. It may take 2 hrs but she will eventually fall asleep. the next night it will be better. it may take a few nights. Yes those nights will be hell but then the peace will come after the storm. good luck.

My first guess is she is feeding off of your tension when it is bedtime! She knows you are worrying yourself when it is bedtime and that is playing into it! It amazes me what these little precious angels can pick up on!!!!!

What I would do is cut out the nap or wake her up earlier from them and then wear her out as much as humanly possible for a week. Hopefully she will be so exhausted that she will beg to go to sleep- of course do not let her get overtired at bedtime or it makes matters worse! Watch for her cues! I have done this a few times with my daughter when she gets off track! Also, I have noticed she falls asleep much better with a sound machine in her room. When all else fails- a nice warm bubble bath (lavender) with candle-light and soft music... then one 10 minute cartoon!

As for what time you put her to bed....who cares!!!! Not every family is the Leave It To Beaver household! My daughter goes to bed around 11-midnight and wakes up around noon! Not every family has perfect schedules- I wish mine did! What ever works for your family is fine as long as she is getting about 12 hours a night!

I really hope you get some sleep soon! Many blessings to you!

Go and buy Weissbluth's Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby immediately! It will help. My main suggestion for you is to start bedtime much much earlier! You are waiting until she's way past the phase where she'll go down easily (obviously during the day your timing is right on, so that's good). Our daughter is a bit younger... she's only 11 months, but we have awesome luck putting her down at 6:45-7pm. With my four year old son, bedtime was a battle! And we were waiting until 8pm... I swear this second time around I've done everything differently and it's gone much more smoothly. If kids aren't asleep before 8pm, you are missing the window of opportunity. Then it becomes much harder to get them down. I would probably for the first few days start making lots of noise during that afternoon nap to shorten it a bit so that she's more tired earlier... but after a week or so, things should be better. Also, I hate to say this, but it sounds like you are really not willing to let her cry it out. I completely understand and know how hard it is! The only thing is that you are miserable and sleep-deprived and your routine isn't working at all with all the late-night driving... A few nights of leaving her in the crib (you could go in and lay her back down every few minutes if it makes you feel better---that's what we always did) and your whole world will change. But the older she gets, the harder the process will be. Good luck!

SHe may be overtired, by the time you try to put her down. I would have loves to have a later schedule with my kids, but they just couldn't handle it. My 17 month old does best when he wakes from nap around 3:30 and goes to bed around 7:00. It when I had one or two, but now that I have three it is nice. My husband and I get some down time at night. We also have put him down and gone out, leaving him with a sitter. Of course that was once we were confident of his sleep.
'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child' is a good book, even if you don't use the cry it out methos. It helps you understand the sleep needs of the little ones.

Ugh, this is a hard one. I am also having a hard time with my 7-month-old. We were doing great until she got sick and then got disrupted again. In any case, I would offer two suggestions: first, start earlier, like 7:30 or even 7 pm. Second, if you're really going to let her "cry it out," you have to wait longer than 20 minutes. think more like 45 or 60. I know that it's absolute torture, and I admit having given in many times myself. But it really does do the trick, IF you stick to it.

I always think about how they used to deal with babies in our mothers'/grandmothers' time: bedtime was bedtime, and you just put the baby down and that's it--up to the baby to cry or not.

Good luck!

Hi L.! You must be exhausted! I feel bad for you, but please remember that this too shall pass. And IT IS TOTALLY OK not to cry it out, if you don't feel that's your way. It never was mine; I'm a softie, whatever! It really is not bad to be there for your kids. All children are different, and your daughter may be just more sensitive than most and perhaps she needs you more. You can take it as a compliment. I do agree that the book by Weissbluth has a lot of good info in it. And perhaps your daughter is overtired by 8:30, but not necessarily. You can check by starting the sleep ritual earlier.
What worked for us is getting rid of the crib. I put a really thin mattress (from Ikea's toddler bed) on the floor when my daughter was just over a year. For a long time, I had to lie down next to her and wait for her to fall asleep. Yes, it can be time-consuming, but this was always "our special time", just for the two of us. Very tender and sweet. Yes, she would wake up in the middle of the night needing me, and I would just lie next to her until she drifted off to sleep again. But those days won't last forever. Now my daughter is 3 and needs me only when she has nightmares. When she was about 18 months we bought a toddler bed and put a railing on it (she still moves around the bed quite a lot; it's so funny!). Over time, I stopped laying down with her and now I just sit there next to her bed. We say a prayer together and I sing a lullaby and we both love our little routine, especially now, when I have to devote a lot of time to her younger brother, almost a year old. There are also nights when she says I can go and she wants to fall asleep alone. No forcing the issue; she just wants to be a big girl. I just figured I'd let her feel that I'm there for her when she needs me. My mom was always there for us for bed time (and in the middle of the night!) when I was little and those are the moments I remember the MOST! Now we have a great, close relationship.
I hope this gives you some ideas, or at least makes you feel better about not always following the crowd. You will work this out! Trust your instincts.

I had a similar experience with my daughter. My husband was so tender-hearted he couldn't stand to let her cry-- of course he couldn't stand to get up at night either. I was quite literally pulling my hair out from exhaustion and sleep deprivation until my mother brought me to my senses. (I was getting up every hour for a while). The sooner and more consistently you do it the better. (I breastfed both of mine for 18 months, but no night feedings after a year.) I would rather address it before the habit has been around for several years and the child may remember it!

I let my daughter cry it out at 9 months while visiting my mother-- it was hard, but not too terrible. It only took a night or two. Unfortunately, we later messed it up by not being consistent and going to her when we had company in the house.

The second time, it was much harder. I won't even tell you how long it took..., and I ended up having to move her crib to the guest room so we (including her older brother) could sleep. But I am now sane, and my daughter is much better off with a sane mother. She is also the best one in the house at bedtime.

The process was rough--my daughter would get so upset she would vomit. (She would do this if I left her with a sitter, too.) This does happen. You can get past it. Just clean up later, when she finally falls asleep, if possible. If not possible to clean without waking her, although unpleasant, it is not impossible to sleep in a slightly soiled crib, especially if she can move around. I think I only had to do this twice, once I started waiting for her to fall asleep. My daughter is now a healthy, happy, albeit very stubborn, 4 year old.

Read the Weissbluth book. You're right, that is a late bedtime. If everything was going fine, I would say go ahead (we have friends from other countries that do the same, but their kids sleep in past 9), but it obviously isn't working for you.

We have had to use the cry it out method periodically for our now 21 month old daughter. We used to drive her around, go back in her room repeatedly, etc., but none of those efforts taught her to get herself to sleep and I was, like you, absolutely exhausted and really dreaded bedtime. I had a tough time waiting out the crying, just like you. When my husband wasn't home to help (and keep me from caving and going back in her room), I found the best thing for me to do was to call my own mother. I could still hear my daughter (because I always feel like someone has to be within earshot) but, somehow, talking to my mother and having her reassure me that I was doing the right thing helped me through. After all, she let me cry when necessary and I've never once felt unloved by her!

My son went through the same thing for a bit. He likes to go to bed early, but was having difficulty doing it once the sun was still up at bedtime. He's an early kid - goes to bed by 7:30 and generally likes to get up about 6, so I adjusted my schedule. our bedtime routine starts at about 6, when we take the dogs out for a nice long walk. Then come home, have a bath, some naked baby time, then once he's in his PJs, he gets his blankie, a bottle, mommy cuddles and I read him a book. Then I put him in his crib with two of his favorite books, which he happily flips through as I leave the room. he just wanted to read by himself before bed. Keeping to the routine, putting him to bed early enough and giving him something to do while he puts himself to bed worked wonders. never had another night of refusing to sleep. See if there's something she can occupy herself with in her crib at night after you leave.

Good luck. I know how hard it can be when nobody's getting enough rest.

I know how awful sleep problems can be! I feel your pain. My 17 month old has similar issues. She is FINALLY sleeping thru until a 4:30 wake up call (then back down for a couple hours), but putting her to bed is pretty rough. I do her routine (teeth, pj's, nurse, rock) then put her in the crib awake. I sing to her and rub her back until she is asleep, and it takes a LONG TIME. I must sing Wheels on the Bus 30 times, and other songs too. It usually takes 30 - 45 minutes for her to fall asleep. So frustrating. But "Cry it Out" doesn't work for us, so this is what we do. And we've had success -- my older daughter, who just turned 3 last month, goes to sleep on her own and sleeps through the night!

Before the next scheduled get a way, have a couple of "camping" nights in your frontroom where you and hubble sleep on the couch and she sleeps in the travel crib. You'll be right there with her so this can become a "fun thing to do with mom and dad".

You have a little smarty who knows how to get what she wants just perfectly ;) And she DOESN'T want to sleep unfortunately.
L., you have to let her cry it out. As hard as it is, weigh the pain of that versus what you are going through now! We know she is perfectly capable of falling asleep quickly and on her own since she does it at naps and did for your father.
I had to let both my kids cry it out at one point or another when they started fighting sleep. Come to think of it, my oldest was right around your daughter's age when she started. We did the Ferber method and within a week she was back on track. It was beyond awful though, I have to say. I have never heard her cry like that and the "mama hold" over and over completely broke my heart. But it worked. Once in a while we would have a little setback (often when traveling) but it only lasted a day or two tops. It was really worth it.
My second started fighting naps and bedtime at about a year old. I let her cry it out too but it worked better with her to NOT go in and check on/reassure her. That just got her more worked up. We would say goodnight, walk out and that was it. Her crying lasted an hour and a half the first night and gradually was less each night. She didn't have any problems after that)
Hang in there. I feel for you. Sleep issues are terrible. And dealing with a stressful situation when you yourself are tired just makes things much worse! Many of us have been there too. It will pass. Good luck!!
p.s. when my daughters were crying i would go in the bathroom with a walkman and my husband would "keep watch." The crying didn't upset him quite as much as it did me.

I feel your pain! My two oldest kids had sleep problems and it drove me crazy. We took them to Dr. Weissbluth at Northwestern. He's written a sleep book that you might have heard of ("Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby"). He also does sleep consultations. It's expensive, but for us was well worth the money. You can get a lot out of the book, though.

From my experience with my kids and from talking to Weissbluth, it sounds like you might need to adjust the time your daughter goes down for a nap and to bed. Weissbluth would say that 8:30 is way too late for a 17 month old to go to bed (or for a 2 or 5 year old to go to bed). He's all about putting kids down early. I know it's counter-intutitive, but his research has shown that the earlier they go to bed, the longer they'll sleep. My 27 month old goes to bed at 6pm and sleeps until 7am. My son had the same schedule, as instructed by Weissbluth. If your daughter is fighting sleep at 8:30, it means she's overtired. I also found that my 2 year old daughter has always slept better for my mom than for me. That might be why your father had an easy time getting your daughter to sleep.

Anyway, I would check out Weissbluth's book. He discusses sleep habits according to the age of the child, so you don't have to read the whole book if you don't want to.

Good luck! It will get better. If I could do it, you can, too!!

Hi L.,
I highly recommend the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth. This book can walk you through solutions to your sleep problems. I have been following the book since my daughter was born and she is a wonderful sleeper. Good luck to you!

You may have found some helpful solutions by now, but in case you might be looking for more ideas, I recommend the following resource....

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070100.asp

You might also try shortening those daytime naps. Three hours seems like quite a long time for a daytime nap. You might want to try 1 hour instead.

I don't recommend the "crying it out" method. I believe that that method leaves long-term grief in the little ones' souls, even when they give up on trying to communicate with their tears.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t131200.asp

Best wishes,
J.

My son was two when my husband and I thought it was time to take away the bedtime bottle. Probably should have done that sooner. Anyway, one night we read him a story, hugs and kisses,turned on the wind up music box and the night light, and put him in his crib, without the bottle. He started to cry, I started to enter his room, calmed him, went out of the room. Every time he cried one of us went in the room. Well, you guessed it, this routine went on several times before I gave up and brought in a bottle. That's what he wanted and I gave in. Kids are very smart even at that age. . . if I cry, they'll come in. . . if I keep crying they'll eventually give me what I want. He was totally in control and we were totally frustrated. So one night, in our frustration and exhaustion, we decided to let him cry it out. After 10 minutes of crying, he started yelling "Mommy help me!" in between sobs! Anything to get me in there. My husband had to physically hold me back from entering that room, it was ripping my heart out and I was crying too. That first night, my son cried (screamed) for 45 minutes - BUT the second night he cried for only 30 minutes, the third night about 15, and the fourth night maybe 5 minutes. The 5th night he was silent and went to sleep without his bottle and without us!!! Sweet relief, we did it!! Although it seems cruel, it does not hurt a child to let him cry a while. Make sure he is secure in his crib with no way to fall out or get hurt, and of course you are close by listening to a baby monitor (the hardest part). Another thing is that some kids sleep better with a little something in their stomach. Maybe a small bit of milk or juice, a cracker or whatever, just before the bedtime story. I hope this helps but I want to encourage you, each child is different, and you will eventually figure out what works for your child. Oh by the way, my son is now 33 years old and is a successful High School MATH teacher. He's very good at solving problems! LOL Hang in there!

I know this is hard but I am and early childhood Professional (well was-now I am blessed to be a stay at home mom so I have personal and professional experiences to share) have several suggestions:

First STOP driving her around for sleep.

Every child must be able to develop their own bedtime coping strategy. I mean that she must learn to sooth herself to sleep or she will never develop good sleeping habits. ( I am not advocating the cry it out method but you must take into consideration the needs and realities of your family and driving her around is a method that is impossible to maintain, sporadically effective, and ultimately not beneficial to her or you).

Second, make an appointment with your pediatrician to rule out any physical, developmental, or other medical causes. i.e. ear trouble, teething (two year molars are coming), sinus congestion, or other causes your pediatrician may be aware of.

Third: establish a strict bedtime routine that is loving and slow and tell her over and over the order of what is going to happen. "You are going to have a snack, take a bath, get ready for bed, read a story, say prayers, have hugs and kisses and go to sleep. It doesn't matter that she won;t remember each step right away, you will be establishing trust by telling her what is happening and then following through every time and after a month she will start to remember the routine. My routine suggestion is this: Give her a carbohydrate rich snack about 30 minutes to an hour before bed to make sure she is pleasantly full, followed by a warm soothing bath-feel free to pick up calming aromatherapy scents like frankincense or others to add to the water (both or these rituals will increase her bodies production of hormones and regulatory chemicals that increase comfort, happiness and calmness-honest). After the bath get her ready for bed and read a story or sing a song keeping her in close proximity to you or your husband (in a rocker together or in her bed snuggling against one another, and remind her what is happening and what will happen next). After the story or songs and prayers(if you say prayers) Put hr into bed and tuck her in give hugs and kisses and leave. Again tell her everything you are doing and try your absolute hardest through all of this NOT TO APPEAR ANXIOUS OR WORRIED AT ALL, Iknow that after all you've been through this sounds impossible but the minute she perceives your fear or anxiety you will trigger her anxiety to build. Also, you can try having soothing bedtime music play, but for many children that are having a hard time putting themselves to sleep any extra stimulus can make it harder for them to sleep.

NOW, here is the tough part, you have choices, crying it out is tough and not always effective, so here are the two factors to keep in mind 1. She MUST eventually learn to put herself to sleep, 2. BEDTIME is non-negotiable and BEDTIME means it is time to be in the bed. So, do not allow her out of bed and do not show her that you are anxious because she will read that only as bedtime is something Mom and Dad are afraid of so I should be afraid too. If she cries hug her or rub her back but stay in charge, "It is bedtime, it is time for you to lay down and go to sleep, Mommy and Daddy love you, now give Mommy a hug and I will tuck you in again." Then leave and wait a little longer before you go back in and do the same thing. Acknowledge her feelings, "I am sorry you are sad tonight, you will feel better after you sleep, it is bedtime, bedtime is time for you to lay down and go to sleep. mommy and daddy love you. Please lay down now." You might end up saying it 50 times, and it will be hard, and the first week will be the worst and you may have relapses during the first month and at other unexpected intervals, but I promise whether you do everything I suggest or develop some other routine, stick to the routine religiously for at least 1 month and never ever let her think you are anxious about bedtime.

FYI, my daughter went through the same issues but she is five now and looks forward to our bedtime ritual and luckily we no longer have to do the bath every night and she is much more flexible AND 9 times out of 10 she is asleep within 10 minutes of tucking her in.

Good luck.

I recently had a similar problem and I finally solved it about a week and a half ago. We've never had such a hard time putting her to sleep that we'd take her driving in the car though. You've gotta be frustrated! My husband would put her down or she would fall asleep in our bed which was bad because she's a pretty violent sleeper as well. If she was in her room and would wake in the night my husband would tend to her but he was up so much she'd end up right back in our bed because he was just exhausted. We had her trained well around her 1st birthday in November and it only took me a couple days to get it down but then she got sick in March and this is when things went downhill and we started losing sleep. So I finally had enough but it was a little harder this time because I was deathly afraid that she would climb out of her crib and hurt herself (she's never done it but I think she could). So here's what I did. The first night I put her in her crib and would pat her back. It was like she was scared that I was gonna leave her. I kept reassuring that I would stay. She was sleeping very lightly and waking frequently. After she fell asleep I moved to a bed that I made myself on the floor and each time she woke I popped right up and patted her back to sleep and told her I was there and I wasn't going to leave. There were a lot of tears but she stayed in the crib all night as I refused to pick her up (even though I desperately wanted to). The next night and each there after, I turned the tv on and found something to watch (Finding Nemo) and I told her I would hold her hand and watch it with her but she had to lay down in her crib. Each night movie time got shorter and shorter, allowing me to leave her room within 5-15 minutes. Sometimes I use white noise if she needs to be calmed - she has one of those little lambs and likes the ocean sound. Yesterday I needed a shower so I had my 14 year old sit with her and hold her hand and she was sleeping within 5 minutes. The hardest part is the tears but know that your daughter can do it. I got a pep talk from her pediatrician the day I decided enough was enough. She LOVES her babies (dolls) right now and we took one with us that day to her 18 month check up and the doctor was like, she has her little lovie and that can help her so we include the dolls or stuffed animals in our process of her bedtime routine. She kisses them goodnight and we put them in her crib and she likes to cover them in a blankie. She still wakes once or twice but it's only because she can't find her pacifier. We just go in put and give it to her then she goes right back to sleep. You just have to do it. At her age she doesn't "need" a bottle in bed and it's not good for her teeth but baby step it away if you can. Maybe give her one before you put her down when you're reading the book then save the rest for when she wakes up in the morning. We did that a little too and she really doesn't want it at night now. Maybe a sip or 2 but asks for it when she wakes up in the morning. All I can say is be strong. She loves you very much and you love her very much but you'll love each other so much more if you can get her to learn to fall asleep on her own and you and your husband can start getting some much needed downtime in the evenings.

Hi L.,

I know you don't want to hear this, but you really do need to let her cry it out. I have been there - coslept, drove the kid around, rocked him, let him sleep in a swing...

It will be awful for you and your husband and you are going to feel terrible, but please trust me on this. Investing 45 minutes of feeling really bad for a night or two (or three) will be worth it to start getting a decent night's sleep. You can't be your best if you aren't sleeping and she needs you to be your best.

If you aren't already on a bedtime routine (bottle of milk, story, song, goodnight kiss, lights out) you should try and get a routine and stick to it. Even though she is tiny, if you tell her the bedtime plan she'll understand.

Good luck. I hope you're all sleeping well soon.

I could NEVER could let my baby "cry it out", so we choose a method that I could live with. We had a bedtime routine that never wavered. Then, we would say "night night (child's name) it's time to go to sleep." We would leave the room. After 5 minutes(only if child was crying), we would return say the same thing and leave. Then, after 10 minutes we would repeat process, then 15, then 20, etc... After the first couple of nights when they know that they are not getting a reaction out of you they will learn to fall asleep ON THEIR OWN. That is the key thing here. My children learned to fall asleep nursing or being rocked. So, we had to re-train them how to do this on their own. This is an altered version of Dr. Ferber's method, but it worked for us and I hope it does for you too. Good luck and God bless.

I completely understand! We had the same issue with our daughter (now 9 months) where she just refused to sleep at night and it was the most frustrating thing. My suggestion is to try an earlier bedtime, starting at 7pm. Though, I would just try progressively earlier from your 8:30pm (8pm, then 7:30 and so on). My daughter really did well when we moved the bedtime up. It seemed like she was overtired from the day and had a hard time falling asleep, so we were just fighting that every night. She typically wakes up at 7:30am, and we put her down for the night between 7pm-7:30pm. There've also been some crying it out times, usually 10 minutes at most.

Have you tried a night light in her room...she may not like the dark.

With all my kids I had to practice with the travel bed for a few weeks before a trip at naptime to ensure they would sleep during the vacation.

Sometimes you just have to let them cry it out. Bringing her to your bed is a bad thing if she's keeping you up all night (mommy and daddy need sleep too to be good parents).

I've let all my kids cry it out eventually usually at about nine month to a year. The first night I close their door, my door, and turn off the monitor. About an hour or two after no more crying I check on them and then go back to bed. Crack their door so it doesn't make noise when you are checking on her.

AFter the first night it takes less time and then less and less until they just go to sleep when you lay them down.

All my kids go to bed no problem...three of them. My son started to fuss a bit when I lay him down, but within about 30 seconds he just goes to sleep.

The reason she didn't give you father a hard time is because she probably sensed fussing wouldn't work. She knows you and dad are softies and she's going to do what it takes to get her way.

Your daughter is not consciously thinking I"m going to manipulate mom and dad, but she has learned that she can do it and she will.

My daughter's use to always scream and fuss when I was trying to cook, but if I wasn't home and it was just dad they never did any of that. Because they knew mommy was a softie and would give in.

Just don't give in. I know it hurts and you feel like your heart is being torn from your chest, but it's what's best for her and you.

She won't die.
She won't hate you.
She won't end up traumatized.
She won't have behavior problems.

My children are happy and content. All three (6,4,and 1) go to bed without any issues and are often asleep before I can get to bed. I mean within seconds.

Just grit your teeth....if you have to go in and lay her down after 15 to 20 minutes and tell her you love her, but it's night-=night time and she has to sleep in her special room....then walk away. Do that every 20 minutes until she realizes that mommy and daddy aren't going to give in.

She will lay down and go to sleep if you insist.

First of all it sounds like you are putting her down too late. And she has you and your husband trained. If she slept well for you father she can do it, and she did not know the limits with him so she did not push it. What time did he put her down? What was the routine? You need to let he go to bed with out the bottle or bieng put in the car. I know naps are hard for my son when we are not at home. You need to let her cry it out, maybe get head phones and listen to music while she is crying? Do not be tense, naps are easy because you do not have a history of issues. If you put her down like you put her in for nap it might be helpful. Good luck and get the "healthy sleep habits" book.

Try giving her a bottle before bed not in her room. Then tuck her in her crib and read to her with a small closet light on. She will learn to relax on her own without you holding her. Also make sure she has her lovey to comfort her or a receiving blanket tag or something silky to hold onto. She should eventually fall asleep on her own even if you have to sit there with the lights off until she does. When she wakes in the middle of the night please let her cry it out. We didn't do it with our twins until they were 14 months and wish we would have sooner(they only cried for 12-13 minutes the first time). Please do this all before she starts to jump out of her crib. It will be so much harder when she is in a toddler bed. Good luck you can do it!

Some kids are easy when it comes to sleep habits and some are not. The other frustrating thing is that they change! A battle that seemed to have been won (by mom and dad) is never over! Sometimes the perfect storm a developmental milestone (a burst of independence around 18 months) and a little family trip sets you back to square one. From everything you said I think she has decided that she wants to sleep with you guys at night. I recommend you get a sleep book - I like Weisbluth - and read it and steel yourselves for the nightmare of sleep training. I did it with my first and while it wasn't fun listening to him cry (read - torture for mom) it did work and we've never looked back. The other two kids were easy and we never had to "train' them. I do believe one of the most important ingredients to family happiness is having a bedtime for the kids so that mom and dad get some time at night and the kids get adequate sleep. Good luck!