My son has been going to an in home daycare, upon referall and loss of our regular care, for about 5 months now. I have never been a huge fan of the lady due to personality conflicts but I let it play out because I could tell she was good to my son and he liked it there. However, at this point these "conflicts" have become too much to handle considering I still haven't gotten a contract even though I have requested one and she seems to keep changing the "invisible" contract rules on me...ex. change of hours, late policy, etc. My husband and I decided to take a vacation with our son about 1 1/2 month ago (in her verbal/invisable contract is unpaid a week for us and a week for her) so we did not have to pay her for this week he was not there. Now, I have decided to terminate daycare with her due to family changes and unhappiness with quality of care. I gave my two weeks appropriately and paid full payment for both of those two weeks but she is still trying to tell me I owe her back for the week we took vacation because it's not fair that she didn't get her vacation. So essesntially she wants me to pay a full week's rate when my son is not there to "make-up" for the vacation we took a month and a half ago that was agreed upon with her. I had brought up terminating in the past and could see how this wouldn't be fair to her if she would have given me that vacation and then I removed him from her care, but this is almost 2 months later and I didn't even know this was going to happen so how could she?! Furthermore, I don't feel like it's my fault that she hasn't taken her vacation yet......someone please help me with this I am thoroughly frustrated at this point! :) Thanks!
Thank you all so much for your responses! Your feedback really helped me confirm that I was doing the right thing. As many of you stated (as did I) there was no contract in this situation, which is true, but I was never concerned with this issue from a legal standpoint....more from an ethical one. I know that she doesn't have anything on me legally but regardless of everything that has happened, or what she has done throughout our time with her, I wanted to be able to walk away knowing that I was doing the right thing morally. Your responses really helped with that as well! I had no intention of "screwing her over" by any means, but I am not going to be walked all over either and there were many times throughout these last few months that I would ask her to do something (regarding my son) and she wouldn’t do it (ex..writing down daily log, telling me when he’s out of stuff instead of sending him home in a diaper a size too small, changing him more frequently, etc.). Although I still cannot wrap my mind around the idea that she feels she needs to be paid for this week 2 months ago when he wasn’t even present, I do feel 100% sure that I should stand my ground and that I am doing the right thing. I did speak with her today and she did not see it this way at all. We each spoke our minds and she “informed” me that we will be discussing this further which I fully agreed. I will keep you updated on how things go but for those of you who commented on being careful if I wanted to bring my son back there, no worries....I removed him for many reasons one of which was quality of care, and I wouldn’t want him in that situation anyway. Thanks again everyone and I will keep you posted on the outcome…..
This is one of the many reasons I think a high quality child care center is better than in-home daycare.
WIthout a written contract she cannot come after you. Be happy you are rid of her and this situation and move on!!
She most likely won't take you to court. To be really honest, in child care the contract is mostly for your written information. Like you said, the hours of operation, the vacation policy, all those things people like to know ahead of time.
When I had my center I realized that I could not enforce my contract because it was discriminatory to parents who paid for their own child care and didn't use finds from the state to pay any portion.
For example: Late fees, I cannot charge a parent who has a set co-pay through the state because they do NOT have to pay ANYTHING over their set amount. Even if they leave their child an hour overtime, I cannot make them pay for it. I would be breaking my contract with the State and could get it terminated by them if someone complained I was trying to get extra money out of them. I can, of course, terminate my services to them, within the guidlines of the contract.
Also, my attorney told me that if the paper was not notorized and filed it was not a legal contract and that it would not hold waer in court.
So I modified my contract, it became a handbook for parents that they needed to sign saying they had read it. I went over it in detail with each family, knowing all the time that they were going to do whatever they wanted and if they didn't take my bluff of taking them to court, then I would just have to live with whatever they did.
Please be sure to call your local Social Services agency and get the number for child care licensing. This woman needs to be reported and they need to make sure she has the proper hours of child care education to qualify for home child care. Every person in Oklahoma employed in child care, whether in a center or home situation, must take the entry level course, which is 20 hours of basic knowlege of child care law and running a classroom and business.
You never received a contract, she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Don't stress about this. Remove your child and then just walk away.
No contract... even verbal.....
She's out of luck. She isn't going to take you to small claims court over that. I think it is 50 dollars to file.
So she screwed herself with no contract.
I've been a provider for 17 years and hate to hear of situations like this (when providers don't act professionally). If she doesn't have a written contract, there really is nothing to enforce. If her vacation isn't planned out, there is no way for you to know if you'll be there to pay for it - you have the right to terminate when you feel you need to. "It's not fair" doesn't really stand up in court, a judge would want to see the written agreement that you are "breaking." SInce there isn't one, I wouldn't worry about it. Good luck, I hope you find someone wonderful, sounds like you need to find a better fit.
Many daycare providers take the week from Christmas to New Years as vacations so it is not uncommon that she hasn't taken her's yet.
You took your vacation as scheduled and didn't pay because you were not required too. You gave her two weeks notice and paid accordingly. You owe her nothing. Even if she told you when her vacation would be, you shouldn't be required to pay her for it unless it over laps your two weeks notice (not that you would owe her double but just the two weeks as scheduled).
Since she hasn't given you the contract that you have asked for, you obviously have not signed one and therefore are not bound by it. Even if you had signed it, unless it specifically stated that you had to pay her for her vacation if you pulled your son out early, you wouldn't owe her for her vacation.
If you were looking to keep the door open for your son to return there, like for before and after school care when needed, you may want to bite the bullet and pay her at least half of what she is asking but you are not required to do so.
Since the *worst* case is that she takes you to court and the judge says you owe her (unlikely, since there was no written contract, but possible because there was no written contract)... why not wait to be ordered to pay?
I would say since there is no contract she has no leg to stand on. Take your son and find a place for him now and forget the 2 weeks. There is nothing she can do as there is norhing signed.
I would agree with her on it being a bit unfair that you got your vacation, but she didn't, etc. etc. However, she never gave you a contract (despite your requests), so you don't actually owe her anything, technically.
The only thing I would advise is that, if you are going to piss her off by not giving her what she requests, make sure your son is out of her care first. Even if she has been / is good to him, don't take the chance that she will take her anger at you out on him. That chance is not worth a few $$ or a few vacation days on your part.
its pretty simple; you didnt have a contract, so technically you arent legally forced to pay her ANY money except the hours your child has attended, and even that is only because you are an honest person.
what is she going to do? take you to court? she would lose because as i said, she didnt give you a contract or have you sign off on it. she cant treat you any worse than she has because you are ending care anyway. its not like you really have to deal with her anymore right?
i would just do what you are going to do, and forget paying her for this past week. and remain firm; you did not sign or agree to a contract so she legally has no standing to ask you to pay her anything.
I wouldn't worry about it. You have given her 2 weeks notice, fully paid - you've done your part. The back pay she wants really isn't an issue for you - it is her fault she agreed to no pay. She has no legal recourse. Walk away...
honestly, you're not friends with this woman, so you won't be seeing her again most likely. you don't have a contract so she can't go after you. i say drop it and run. i wouldn't even finish out the two weeks' notice if i could help it. maybe you could leave a few days early and then that could be her "vacation" ;) what a wonderful childcare provider. better luck next time.
I guess next time she will have a written contract to give to people with her terms. Sounds like to me she was wishy washy about the whole thing because she wanted to change it whenever she wanted to to accomodate herself. It just doesn't work that way-that is exactly why you have contracts so you don't get screwed and vice versa. You asked her many of times for a contract and didn't get one-this was one of the conditions as to why you left right? She hasn't got a pot to pee in -walk away. Worse case scenario she takes you to court and you get ordered to pay it but doubtful that a judge would see it that way and do you think if she is arguing over a weeks worth of pay she is going to want to pay the fees involved in taking you to court? It's her own fault-she should have had a contract instead of changing the terms/rules every week. She sounds very inexperienced in my opinion but this is what sometimes happens with these "in-home" daycares not that they are ALL bad but I tell you its people like that who gives the in-home daycares a bad name and a bad reputation. I wonder if she is state certified?
your right..no contract..no communication...no money...i wouldnt even give it a 2nd thought-just move on.maybe this will wake her up to do buisness in a proper way.and if this was such an issue for her-she wouldve said something before you went on vacation.but still with no kind of contract..her mouth is null an void.
If there is no written contract, I wouldn't worry about paying her- it's not your problem- as bad as I hate saying that, but it's not. Be done with her and go on.
you have behaved legally and ethically. you have nothing further to do.
khairete
S.
Since you never received a contract (especially after asking for one), I think you were more than fair giving two weeks notice and paying for those weeks. She cannot just change the rules to suit her needs at the moment. I would remove my child and ignore any further contact from her regarding owing more money. Let her file a small claims action if she truly believes that you owe her money. No. 1: I don't think she will. No. 2: Even if she does, she has no contract with you. I doubt that she has a leg to stand on. I sincerely believe that she will "just go away" if you ignore her.
