Here's the scenario. I am charging a mother 40 dollars per shift for 2 children. This mother needs flexible care. She has a schedule that changes every week and often at the last minute. She needs any of all 7 days. She also needs mostly nights and weekends. But her schedule can be any of these, 3-11, 4-12, 5-1, 6-2, 7 -3, 8-4, 9-5, or 10-6. She is required to clock in 20 minutes before her start time and needs to drop off 1 hour for drive and parking time. I have needed to re-arrange my schedule quite often to meet her needs. I have had to provide diapers when she has run out and formula too. I have provided wipes the whole time and clean sheets and blankets and beds. I get up and change the children in the middle of the night, give bottles to the younger one, and lend a listening ear when mom is stressed. I've been helping with potty training and generally feeling that I am going above and beyond.
The problem is that mom feels that she's paying a lot and seems to be saying she feels she is paying too much. She pays me a week in advance and when the older child goes with his dad last minute she doesn't ask for that money back. But she also often gets extra time out of me so that she can sleep.
Today she said a lot of things that didn't feel at all fair. One of which is that she feels that I have pretty much had it easy because her kids sleep so much while in my house. She really DOES have a hard time, is alone mostly, is not getting child support and maybe I could offer a little less or have her adjust the weeks pay for days her son misses. But I really don't feel I should need to and or that I can do much more.
Am I being kind enough or too kind?
I do want to say that no part of this question is about licensing. I am allowed to be licensed or not licensed in my state and I have been both. Back in the day, I was EASILY and quickly licensed in a dumpy little house because it just happened to meet all the licensing regulations the first time through. It was only 500 SQ feet! The yard was a small postage stamp yard and the going rate for care back then was 40-50 per WEEK per child. Licensed caregivers in my state warehouse children often caring for 10 children at once which is only good for the incredibly young and energetic which I was when I was licensed. As we age, most of us develop arthritis and bad backs and knees from all the years of playing on the floor and hefting around children. Most woman of my age shouldn't be doing 10 kids anymore! Sadly, my house needs 15,000 dollars worth of improvements and it's not a bad house! It's large, we've updated it in every way it matters so that it's not going to go up in flames, and our yard is huge. It's just not the preferred style and would need major functional changes if I wanted to have 10 kids, which I DON'T. Not everyone takes too many children. So don't anyone get their panties in a twist. A very RARE person will get licensed and only keep a handful of children. But most people that go through the long drawn out process, change their house in order to qualify, end up needing to be full to the max in order to pay for the changes. Or they are young and idealistic and they think they really can handle 10 kids without paying a significant price someplace. Also, parents are usually NOT willing to pay more for licensing and I'll tell you why. If you are looking at 2 candidates... A) is a 20 something young lady licensed for 10 and charging 100 per week. She has little experience, but she's licensed. But B) has 20-30 years of experience, a nice house, only keeps 4 children so that she can give them more attention, and she charges 120-140 per week, who do you choose? If you are desperate and can barely afford the 100, you go with the licensed. If you have a little more money to spend, you go with the provider with more experience and more TIME to devote to your children. To be licensed or not licensed is a totally different debate. I don't do 10 children anymore because I believe 4 (my unregulated legal limit) is better for everyone. I do provide this care in my home and I choose to have a verbal contract because I would never have time or care enough to take someone to small claims court to try and enforce a written one.
I really should let the mother go. But she is not going to find SAFE care with anyone as experienced as I am for less. Sadly, in my geographical area she would likey find someone cheaper. But they would not be better and it's taken her little one months to get to know me. I'm not ready to throw in the towel because this mother is taking her stuff out on me. What I do want to know is who or how many would work for less and maybe someone has some ideas for how to communicate better to an over stressed person that obviously doesn't even have a clue how flexible and caring I've been towards her, not only her children.
Also to one persons point....theoretically I could take another child when the little boy is gone. But that's not going to happen because I never know when his dad will last minute like take him. I can't advertise for it if I don't know when the times would be and don't have enough drop in parents to call around and see if any of them want to go out that night. It seems that the people in my area that want to go out mostly just hire cheap babysitters to come to their homes and then complain when they aren't very good or very motivated. But again, that's another rant entirely.
That price is fair, in my opinion. We are only getting one side of the story, but I can't imagine anyone charging less. Can she look into state assistance for childcare?
I am in KC, and I pay $30/day for ONE child, in an in-home daycare. I feel like I have a pretty good deal too.
You are not being paid enough, especially for the random schedule. She will have a VERY hard time finding someone else to do what you do.
Wow, I am also a daycare provider and I would say that from what you have written that you are being very nice by only charging her what you do. I am sorry, but I wouldn't do it for that small amount. Sounds like your lady is starting to try and take advantage of you by trying to guilt you into giving her a cheaper rate.
You could offer a discount when the child goes to his fathers house but I wouldn't. This is your business and how you make your money as well. She agreed to the price when she started bringing her children to you. She won't find anyone cheaper or willing to do what you are doing for her.
Good luck!
I think this poor Mom is overwhelmed with life in general, and perhaps she is hoping to catch a break by getting you to feel sorry for her.
If you think what you charge is fair, and she agreed to that price when you began your arrangement with her, then I wouldn't worry about it. Leave things as they are. She knew the price going into the deal.
Unless you just feel, out of the goodness of your heart, that you want to help her. Then a few dollars less would make her feel like she got a better deal, but not really pull all that much from your pocket.
The thing is, though, if you do it once, then a little while down the road she is going to decide that price is too much too, and start working on you again to lower your price. Hey, it worked once, it might work again.
I find it unusual (and the mom should consider herself lucky) that you charge per shift and not per week. Most people charge a flat fee for the entire week, whether the children show up or not.
My daughter has always found this to be true for her daughter, who is now 7 years old.
Her daycare/babysitters have always charged one fee for the whole week, regardless of shift changes, and she has had to pay that price EVERY week. Even when her child was absent from care.
So in that way, your "mom" is getting a pretty fair deal.
In my opinion, I just don't think it is about the license. As a mother, I would feel fully responsible for vetting anyone I would leave my child with. I did not need the state, whose standards are purely superficial, to tell me who was qualified to care for my child. Children need far more than clean diapers and sheets. They need people who create an environment where they feel safe and loved and can learn and develop. Honestly, I get uncomfortable when we discuss the care of these precious little souls as if we're comparing prices of carpet cleaners. There are so many children who are being 'warehoused' and we have a number of children growing up with attachment disorder as a result. What we call attachment disorder in children is generally called sociopathy in adults. We, as mothers and childcare providers cannot afford to underestimate the importance of this issue.
I think the whole conversation needs to become more human and focus on what is at stake. If you can provide for all the real needs of two to four children at a time, and the children are thriving, AND you allow yourself to be on-call 24-7, I cannot imagine anyone thinking that is not worth $20 per child for a normal workday, much less without paying overtime.
What it sounds like you need is the language to help this mother, who is challenged by life's responsibilities , to wake up and smell the coffee. If I were in your position and heard a parent complaining about my fees, even though the complaint may be only the venting of frustrations, I would want to clear the air in the most respectful manner possible. I would not hesitate to approach such a parent with words something like:
I have been listening carefully to comments you have been making and it seems you may have some doubts about the amount of payment we have agreed upon. I am more than happy to break down my reasons for charging what I do. Since I do not care for more than 4 children at a time, children under may care have the advantage at least twice the healthy attention they would receive by caretakers that would charge only slightly less while trying to care for up to 10 young children at a time. With the extended hours I actually have the children, more than 10 hours for every 8 hour shift you work, at $20 per child I can only make $8 per hour at best. And for that $2 per hour per child, I am providing a building with full utilities, a groomed yard, bedding, meals, cleaning service, maintain backup supplies for times when parents cannot provide them, and am on call for all shifts. Whether sleeping or awake, I am taking responsibility to keep the children safe, clean, and in an environment where they can know they are loved and their needs are respected. I cannot imagine providing all this for less. Obviously, once the overhead expenses are deducted, I am not even making minimum wages. Often, people who work for less than minimum wage receive tips to supplement their income. It is not my intention to complain or to suggest tipping. Because some things I have heard you say, I just make sure we are on the same page and are clear and comfortable with the agreements we have made. I would not want there to be any room for resentments to develop between us.
As far as the issue about the child that is not always present and the mother has not asked to be reimbursed, I would not hesitate to ask if she understands your reasons for not offering reimbursement, since this may not have been something that you both discussed and agreed upon. Then I would explain that I have assumed she understood that I have to charge for being available for periods of time and that it would take a good amount of notice for me to be able to fill that time slot with another child who needs my care. If, however, you do feel that this is not a fair arrangement, we can discuss any ideas you might have on the subject and I am sure we can come to an agreement that is respectful to everyone involved. If she does want to discuss it, you might consider offering a slight discount in consideration only of expenses that you may not incur when he is absent. It is not fair to not pay you for services unused when you have made yourself available to provide that service. On the other hand, if you do actually spend $5 less on supplies/food, you might consider allowing that $5 per shift discount. It really might be worth the $5 to maintain respect and good-will. But, it might also be well worth an additional $2 per hour to accommodate swing shifts and being on call for last minute changes. If you have not charged anything extra for the on-call service, the mother might be very comfortable letting go of the idea of the $5 discount once she realizes that what you are not charge far exceeds what you are not discounting.
Sometimes it really helps to take the time to occasionally consult with your clientele, to ask for feedback, and to make sure things are progressing in a way that is supportive to everyone. This gives you the opportunity to bridge understanding, share facts, and most importantly to discuss the progress and needs of the children. The unity and mutual respect between the adults in a child's life is very important to a child's emotional well-being. Unspoken resentments often slip out in ways that children perceive, but do not fully understand. These things worry children in ways most adults never notice.
I hope these thoughts are helpful to you as you sort out the best way to resolve these issues. Best wishes and good luck! And, hug those precious babies for me!
In my opinion, she is taking advantage of you. BIG TIME! $40 dollars a day...for 10 hour days....that's $4 per hour....wow. Part time babysitters are at least $5/per hour, maybe more, depending on how many children. You may want to tell her to shop around, get some price quotes in writing from other daycares and/or sitters, and bring them to you. She'll NEVER find someone as reasonable as you. Trust me.
9-10 hours of care, for 2 children, 'round the freakin' clock, for less than $5 an hour?? Essentially $2 per hour per child??? Only $200 a week???
Honey, where do you live, because I'm seriously considering moving there.
I realize price is geographic... but here in seattle... for 40 hours of care (much less 50-60 which is what you're providing) it runs about $1500-2500 per month. And that's during business hours, AND group rates, much less 1 on 1. After hours care is a LOT more. Ditto drop in rates. That's median rates, btw. I know some families who pay over 4k per month for childcare, because they have to split between a day nanny & a night nanny or daycare + night nanny. The "range" in our area starts @ $10 per hour, and caps at about $35 per hour.
Split the money out and you're charging $20 per kid per 9-10 hour shift. That's $2 an hour per child. How much lower does she want you to go???
I pay college students to come to be home while my son is sleeping $20 plus I FEED them, for only 4 hours of care.
Does she even realize that you're being paid $2 an hour? Would SHE work / devote her time for that little money?
First, daycare providers don't get paid enough for the long hours and the hard work they do. Secondly, the fact you are having to constantly adjust your schedule for her needs should not constitute you having to lower your prices anymore.
For the diapers and formula, if she signed an agreement that states she is to provide these items, then she should be charged. You don't get them for free? You have to put out of pocket too right?
I am a single mom, no support for my ex and a day care provider myself. Parents single or not, need to follow the guidelines that we providers set. This is our lively hood as well as our career choice. They must respect that, follow what is set or find care else where. Why lower your standards any less? Understand times are tough, but the mom needs to step up and be a responsible parent. No matter how tough it is being a single parent.
Once one takes advantage and gets away with it...they will keep doing it. As far as her personal business, as a daycare provider, that should not be brought into your daycare. Getting to personal with your families will cause problems later. She has girlfriends for that and its wrong of her to put you in that type of situation.
As far as her kids are concerned, every child is different while in the care of someone else. Its normal. Explain that to her. Heck I will! lol. Don't bend over backyards, keep both your feet on the ground and stand up for your hard work, time and business. She feels she pays too much!!! She is paying you less then minimum wager per child. Care is #1 for your child, u pay what u pay, otherwise stay home and take care of your own children and get a nanny job. Thats what I did :) Now I got the best of both worlds. Free childcare, playmates for my son and a career I love.
Good luck and stand strong! We providers are so under appreciated for our hard work.
This is your business, why in the work would you devalue your services so much. $40 per shift for two kids: that's about $2/hour per child.
You are an angel on earth!! Actually I think you are being too kind. She has nothing to complain about. How many options does this woman have? Right, hardly any. And if you know her kids and take care of them, ESPECIALLY in the middle of the night, I think that is going above and beyond. I know she is paying you also, but I think night pay should be more, and no set schedule should be even more. You are altering your whole life for this woman and her kids. You may agree to do this, but you should be paid well for it also. Also, don't let your sympathy for her take over. You may get walked on because of it.
wow, you're getting paid peanuts. offer this mother to take her children elsewhere. i guarantee she'll be back before the week is up.
i think you need to charge more.
ditto on licensing. i hope you're licensed/
Lord you are inexpensive! I pay my own daughter $10 an hour to watch her younger brother and sister when I work. These are older kids one starting middle school this year. If you ever find yourself in StL look me up.
Seriously though what you are charging is way less than what you are worth. With that you are already giving her a break.
I am a mother of three and I have a terrific babysitter who has been with me three years. I pay her hourly to care for two children so I can't relate to $40 per shift for an 8 hour shift? That sounds like almost nothing you're getting. Most day cares charge a certain amount per week, but yes, it sounds like you're going way above and beyond if you're there at night, even if the kids are just sleeping. My husband and I have gone away and left my babysitter in charge, to pick them up from school to bed and school the next morning and I pay $100 for each day which consists of a shift from 4 p.m. until 8 a.m. the next morning. Yes, mine go to sleep from 8 p.m. but the same I'd pay her for babysitting at night when we go to dinner, it's worth every penny to me since they are safe. In your situation, I would advise you to have a contract, an oral one is fine as long as you discuss these issues and come to an agreement on them with her. You need to sit down and discuss the issues of the changing schedule- maybe it's undoable for you based on that. Who could work a changing schedule like that? Sounds crazy that she can expect anyone to provide care for two young children at the last minute, and not give you the supplies you need and then switch it around on you, then say you're not working hard enough. When parents go to dinner and the children are sleeping, we typically pay $13-15 per hour for someone to just sit and watch T.V at my home while my children are sleeping, but that's exactly what it costs to have a responsible person care for them. Anyway, you need to talk to her and you'll discover what her expectations are and she will hear yours. Perhaps, she is really expecting way too much and you should go elsewhere. I doubt she will replace you for less money, or even the same frankly. A good, responsible person, where one's children are safe is worth a lot.
Is this person a family member? I wouldn't do any of the rearranging you are doing for my clients. You are going way above and beyond and she should be grateful $40 a day for each kiddo, it sounds like you are charging her $20 a day per kiddo, is that right?
It does sound like she is having a hard time, but you are in business and you have your own life. I'd be very firm with her about what you want to be paid and what you expect from her. I dare her to find someone else who will do what you are doing!!!
My at home babysitter charged 10/hr for one child, she was really flexible for me as well, but I think she's getting a great deal, since no daycare is going to do that. And PS she lived in an apartment, he loved it, as long as the kids are safe, who cares (I went to a licensed day care center that was great accept for a 2yr old was found wandering down the highway and they didn't know she was gone, our last day there).
It sounds like you are an amazing child care provider and you go above and beyond the call of duty. From the sounds of it deep down mom realizes it because she feels so comfortable talking to you about her life. That being said, you have to draw the line somewhere. I think that the amount you are charging is a bargain and you shouldn't feel bad about it. If you think that you are charging too little, you shouldn't feel bad about telling her that you need to raise it a little. The best way to communicate with her would be for one week make a little journal and write down each time the children wake up in the middle of the night, any time she changes things last minute on you, the exact times the children are there, and anything else you feel is above and beyond. Then wait for her to start discussing pay with you. You at that point can explain in detail why you feel what you are charging is fair and you will have concrete examples as to why. The choice at that point will be back on mom. It's her responsibility to decide whether or not you are the right provider for her. Let her weigh the options...this should not be your burden. You are doing the right thing and again, sounds like you are concerned because you are a caring person. Good luck!
It sounds like you have the kids at least 40 hours a week. When my son was in day care, I paid $105 a week. It included meals because it was government subsidized (the same program as school lunches). My son was 4 and potty trained and didn't have any special dietary requirements. Younger kids cost more, I believe, and had to provide their own diapering supplies. I paid weekly, and didn't get a refund for days missed. I called around a LOT and this was the least expensive place I found (though it was a GREAT place), and their hours were not as flexible as you have to be. So that might give you an idea of "fair" pricing. Private, in home, care generally costs a bit more.
However, even if the kids sleep a lot of the time they're at your house, you do have to get up for them, which disrupts your sleep. And having to change your schedule to meet hers every week make it hard for you to plan anything! So I would say, you are definitely being kind enough.
Its true that she could probably find someone less expensive. But probably not someone willing to be up at 2 a.m. Remind her that you provide a lot of the "supplies" - most providers will charge extra for any of that. Maybe you and she should both look around, independently, and see what others are charging, and hours of availability. She'll probably be surprised at the deal she's getting! And remember that you are a point of stability for these kids in what sounds like a hectic life. Let her know how much you care about the kids and want to give them the time and attention they deserve. From your post, I can tell you genuinely care about the kids you wath. Hopefully she'll realize that she's got something good here! :)
It's up to you to give her a price break. Most people won't do that for someone - they charge a flat rate unless they are subsidized for low income clients (and there's a ton of paperwork for that, I'm sure). I probably wouldn't. My only suggestion on how to talk with her is to make sure it's a time when she's not in a rush to get to work or home, and when the kids aren't demanding a lot of attention. Start with how much you care about the kids and want to help her, then state concerns, and end with something positive again.
Good luck! I hope you find something that will work for both of you!
Wow you are fantastic for doing this kind of service. If I were her I would thank my lucky stars to find someone to be so flexible & in such short notice.
My friend needs someone to watch her 11 1/2 yr old dghtr twice a week from 6pm to 7 am at their home or my friends & only one person responded that they would do it for $40 a night. If I were her I would not complain at all or ask for a "credit" when the one son is gone.
Bottom line is you are really awesome to do this for her & she is sounding very ungreatful, probably because she is so stressed out. It's the old saying that people don't realize what they have till it's gone.
Because of how flexible the schedule is, I think you are being fair...and $40 for 2 kids??WOW I think that is a bargain. She needs to realize that if she was taking her kids to a normal daycare, it would be ALOT more than that. I pay 140 for 1 kid 5days a week.
You and her should sit down and talk and come up with a contract. Just list that the wipes, sheets, blankets are free but the formula and diapers will be billed at a separate rate. If you come up with a weeklly pay vs a daily pay, that would help her with budgeting. The Child Support issue is not your problem.
She is very fortunate to have you and no notice flexibility. Since she needs to drop off an hour before, I'm assuming she gets there at least a 1/2 hour after her shift ends so you're looking at a minimum of 9 1/2 hours. $40 a day for 2 kids licensed or not is nothing. We go to a private daycare in a converted home. They are open 7-6 and charge a dollar for every minute you are late. I haven't found anyone in my area that is flexible. Under 2 they charge $200 a week, 2-5 they charge $175 a week. They give a 10% discount for the older siblings. In all we pay $367.50 for the set hours above. I would love to be able to occasionally work later but it's not an option. There are daycares that are open until 6:30 but they are about $500 more a month, the one that wasn't was a bad facility and I pulled the kids in less than 2 months.
I would think that if she was to find good care somewhere else with the same flexibility that she would pay more.
If we get a babysitter on the weekend then we pay $12.00 an hour for both kids. It costs us $50 for a babysitter so we can have 4 hours to ourselves.
It sounds like the kids need some stability and I hope you can work things out since you are so caring and helpful with extra costs, etc. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
