Ok I'm at my wits end. Every night we start bed time for our 3 1/2 and our 11 yr old at 8:30. Infact we try to have them inbed by then sometimes a little later by the time prayer is done. My 3 1/2 yr old fights it every single night. Over the summer we moved him into our older son's room bc he had a bunk bed and we have baby number 3 on the way so eventually his room will be the nursery. He was extremely excited about and has done great until recently. So recently every night he claims he is scared and will scream or cry. I've tried everything from searching for monsters to having the dog sleep on the bed with him in my older sons room with a lamp on and music playing. It is now to the point that if he doesn't lay quietly we move him back into his room so he doesn't keep our older son awake. Even now he's in his room wining off and on wanting us to come in there. My husband thinks it has to do with the daycare nap schedule. Not sure how long she lets them sleep but the other day my husband picked him up around 4ish and he had just been woken up from his nap. Today I picked him up around 3:30 like usual on Wednesdays due to an activity we do and she was waking him up. I asked her about nap time once before and she mentioned they usually go down for nap around 12:30 and 1:30 depending on how late lunch ran. If they are going down even at 1 or 1:30 and not waking up till after 4 that's a pretty long nap. Since Thanksgiving my husband has let the boys play xbox which I thought might have something to do with it but today he was playing lego batman with our 3 yr old so nothing really scary. Other games (I hate) that they sometimes play is call of duty. That one I could see maybe upsetting him but how in the world do I get him to go to sleep. I mentioned today no more xbox during the week so hoping that helps but other than slipping him tylenol or some other drug to get him to sleep how do I get him to go to sleep like he's suppose to. We try to stay on schedule as much as possible but sometimes stray from it especially with turkey day but otherwise pretty constant. I don't remember having this much trouble with our older son. If he fought it you threatened him with spanking or talked sternly and that was it. I don't rem him fighting it like this. What am I doing wrong or what can I do to fix this.
side note. During the day he's well behaved with exception of occassion, eats well and even likes brushing his teeth with the following story time and prayer. As soon as prayer is done it starts.
Thank you for all of the great information. I'm definitely going to try the staggered bedtimes and maybe even move him back into his room. Figured would eventually do that but was afraid the constant feedings would wake him up but figured once NB was sleeping through most of night that we would move them back together. I do like the idea of the "Go away big green monster" and the monster spray. I'll try those first before moving him back just in case NB crying will keep him up. Sent a message to the daycare requesting she not let him sleep for too long or past 3:00 to see if that makes any change. I'll let yall know how it turns out.
Yes, that naptime is really late. Both my kids were/are in a daycare center and naptime was strictly from 12p to 2p. My 16 month old goes to bed at 7 and my 5 year old goes to bed at 8
Nap sounds long, but I wouldn't blame it on that. Young kids have active imaginations and it could be anything. Around that age my daughter was scared to go to bed because she thought Swiper from Dora was going to take all of her things and her away. Poor kid!
I'd give him his room back. I think it would be better for the 3.5 year old and baby to share rather than the 11 year old and 3.5 year old. The 11 year old probably has older kid hings that might be scary for a preschooler. Just my opinion.
our school district enforces "quiet/rest time" for the 1st semester of KG. With my daycare, I do naptime up until the summer of KG. This makes the transition easier for all involved.
But I make sure the nap is earlier....immediately after lunch. & for all children, it's over by 3pm. Right now, I have children between 18months- 3yo. Lunch begins at 11:30-12:30, depending on arrival times. That means they're asleep by 1pm at the very latest. Most of the kids sleep about 1 1/2 hours, except on Mondays...when they could easily sleep all day!
A couple of thoughts: video games are stimulants for kids. The kids may be sitting/sedentary while playing them....but the games are mentally stimulating. I do believe this is part of the problem. Evenings should be "down-time" for preschoolers.
Also 8:30 is a little late to be starting bedtime for preschoolers. With such a gap in your sons' ages, I would highly recommend separate bedtimes. Get the little one started for bed at 7:30, & allow the older child to stay up. This method works very well for many, many families + it ensures quality time for all involved. It sounds as if the little one is feeding off of the older child, acting out to get attention.
I realize my response is contrary to the previous postings. Hope this helps!
Three and a half seems too old for a nap that long. It probably is disrupting the night sleep. He's probably gotten into a back sleep cycle of going down late and napping too long and your provider either feels like he needs the sleep or likes the long break with all the kids napping. I'd ask that she shorten his nap to an hour, or hour and a half at the latest. (On the later side if he goes to sleep at 12:30. I think 4pm is too late to wake up.)
But you don't say that he's having trouble going to sleep necessarily, just that he's claiming to be scared. That could be separation anxiety or the fear of the new room or something else. Just because he's excited about being in a new room doesn't mean that it's comfortable for him yet. It can take months for kids to adjust to a change like that. And he's at just the right age when his imagination is exploding so he's able to scare himself with all kinds of thoughts. If something on the video games upset or disturbed/scared him, it probably doesn't matter if he's not playing it for a day or even a week. He's got that in his head and it's hard to change those fears.
I'd get rid of the game all together. Read him books like "Go Away Big Green Monster" that empower him to have control of his fears. Give him reassurance. If you can find out exactly what it is that he's scared of or worried about, you'll have a much better chance of solving the sleep problem.
I just noticed that you don't start bedtime until 8:30pm. That's too late for your little guy imo. He may also be having trouble going to sleep because he's overtired. Try to have him in bed by 8 with a shorter daycare nap and see if that helps. If he still seems wound up, you might even try a bit earlier than that.
good luck~
Our son did this when he was about 4 1/2. He was so tired from the morning activities at daycare he would need his sleep but then would not go to bed until 9ish. The daycare started waking him up after about and hour and letting him read a book or do other quiet activities. I would also do separate bedtimes for each child. Ideally if you can give the 11 year old their own room I think that would help. If that is not possible try to find some space for the 11 year old in the house he can call his own to hang out in.
he's not too old for A nap - but it might be running a bit long imo.
but more than that, i can't believe no one has mentioned - 3 is a prime age for night fears. my son was convinced there were spiders in his room for a period. we had to get 'spider spray' and let him spray the whole room (we used air freshener and a water bottle, at different periods). at one point around the age of 4, he had a fever and was sick for about a week, worse than your run-of-the-mill cold - in the dark, with a fever, he SWORE his ceiling was crawling with spiders (it's a popcorn ceiling so you can imagine how his eyes were playing tricks on him - i caught the same bug and i saw it too, creepy!)
anyway, try the "monster spray". give him some power. but keep standing your ground and make sure you're not dragging bedtime out even later...good luck.
Nope - nap schedule has nothing to do with it.
Starting at 2 to 2 1/2, their imaginations are going full tilt - day AND night.
This is when nightmares can start up.
And this stage can last a long time (several years).
Sleeping patterns in children are in development - you get nightmares, night terrors, talking in sleep, sometimes walking in sleep - and it's all normal stuff that most kids completely grow out of sooner or later.
Our son would wake up terrified in the night and he'd cry and come look for me.
Finally, child got smart.
If he woke me up - he knew I'd take him back to his bed.
So he started coming to our bed without waking us up and he'd just tuck himself in at the foot of it and hold onto my foot till he fell asleep again and we'd find him there in the morning.
You might want to put a sleeping bag for him next to your bed so he can be near you when he's afraid.
Some kids do this till they are 5 or 6 yrs old.
It's hard but they do outgrow it sooner or later.
3.5 seems a little old for a nap.
Yes, yes, I know some kids still do nap at that age, but mine were pretty much done when they potty trained, around 2, and our preschool had a "quiet" room for the non nappers to go to. That was a place where they could rest and be somewhat still and peaceful even if they weren't sleeping.
I know if my kids took a nap at that age they would've been ready to party at night too!
Any other daycare options or are you stuck?
I would hate sending my kids (or myself) to a place where I was expected to fall asleep on command :(
Reduce the naptime and get your son out of the room when games higher level than E are being played. There are game ratings for a reason and its not just the violence / cussing on the screen. its also the movement the darkness etc. A child of 3 has no business being in the same room as call of duty.
that's a way long nap. It should be 2 hours, max. If he's falling asleep, then he still needs the nap, but it should be limited to 2 hours, and certainly not late in the day. I would talk to the daycare about this. They should be on a consistent time schedule, and not take advantage of letting kids over sleep. My daughter's preschool naps at 12:30-2:30, like clock-work.
My son is seven, and bedtime is at 8. When he started school at SELF, I had his bedtime at 6:30-7(at age 3). He always took a two hour quiet time after lunch. Sleep was irrelevant, he had to stay in his room and lay down.
On the subject of games. I watched my friends children, one was your con's age at the time. He wasn't allowed to play big scary games around the younger kids. Period. I refused to back down, even stood up to his parents, my friends who I consider family. It was reported back to me that his sisters night terrors went away.
I suggest if the older one doesn't mind, to have him help in little brother's bedtime routine. Have him read a bedtime story, talk about the cool day they had. If he sings, have him belt out a few relaxing songs(I used to sing to my siblings old church tunes or nursery rhymes rocked up a bit). This by the way, will interrupt your older ones and your routine for a while...oh, about a month. He needs to be present as will you two, starting with in the room, then in a few days in the middle of the room, then a few days later slowly inching out of the room until you are in the hallway. He needs to see you are present and there for him. Soon, he will not mind you not being in there he knows you are there. But always have the brother or one of you read him a bedtime story to set it all up.
I do approve of soft relaxing music being present at night, as it's comforting noise.
My son had separation anxiety since my ex left when he was 16 months. He still has it to a lesser extent, but for the exception of loud storms or a noisy neighbour arguing, he sleeps in his room. I do let him fall asleep in my bed then move him, always talking to him as I am doing so, that I am there for him when he needs me. He's been sleeping in his room by himself since he was just shy of four.
I seriously hope you are joking about giving him Tylenol to help him sleep. He won't be able to use it when you are older if you do so, because his body will adapt to it, and it won't work.
Other than what I suggested, hang in there Mama! Changes are a comin'!
IMO, it is absolutely the nap schedule! Sleeping until 3 or 4pm...and for 3 hours maybe even 3.5 hours? I would be speaking with the daycare provider like yesterday!
Consistency is the key. Whatever you do, do not give into the crying and whining. Stand firm. Most of us go through this with our kids at one point or another. My kids are famous for stalling at bedtime!
I can add...if they go down late, 1:30, then sleep until 3:30 that is only a 2 hour nap. Not a 3-4 hour nap.
If she is having to wake him up he needs the nap. If he is in any child care setting he will be required to lay down until he is on at least kindergarten. The state has strict rules/laws about rest time.
That said. I would ask your provider to work at getting their lunch done by 11:30 and nap time starting by noon at the latest. Then getting him up around 2-2:30 is the correct time frame. He is getting older and needs that large motor skill type play all afternoon. Dinner then more playtime too.
I would do two things - either change his bedtime accordingly or ask her to wake him by a certain time (I try not to let DD nap after 4PM) and then also start the lead time to bedtime earlier with no xbox within an hour of bedtime.
You might also ask him if there's something about his room that bothers him. At 3, they can have wild imaginations and not want to miss things. I started leaving the light on (at DD's request) til I went to bed and that kept her in her bed vs crying that she saw something.
You either need to have day care change their stuff to suit you or you need to adjust to suit him. To be honest, with new baby you may want to have staggared bed times and allow him to go to bed a few hours later. Does it cut into mommy daddy time sure, but you are spending it in misery any how right? I would suggest bed time be at 9pm then push it back if needed again. I also agree that 3 is too old for naps for most children and clearly yours is one of them that no longer needs it.
At 3 and a half years old, he might be growing out of taking naps. Both of my kids stopped taking naps when they were 2, so to me, he seems a little old to still be taking naps. Maybe when he is at day care he can just sit quietly and look at books or color? I agree with you about the scary video games. Call of duty is not really appropraite for a 3 year old. Lego batman, totally!! My 5 year old LOVES that game :)
I would ask the daycare to either let him do something else quietly when the others are napping, or if he has to nap, ask them to not let him sleep longer than 1 hour at most.
Children this age need about 10-12 hours of sleep per day...so the nap thing would really only be an issue if he is sleeping that much at night AND still napping 2+ hours during the day. While the average age to transition from one nap to no naps is between 3-4, some kids do nap until 5 and I would be reluctant to give up my peace, er, I mean my kids nap. If it were me I would tell daycare to make sure he only naps for 1 hour a day (depending on how he slept the night before). If this doesn't work I would try to take that beloved nap away. Also, I would try putting him to bed BEFORE his big brother, since he likely needs more sleep...especially if you take away the nap...try to be in bed by 8:00 at latest for preschoolers!
It sounds like his daycare nap is the culprit but you're stuck because if the daycare "makes" them lay down for nap time he does not have a choice.
He may lay down for nap unable to sleep at first but eventually he falls asleep.
It sounds like they may be putting him down after 1:30 for nap.
He's probably fighting bedtime because he honestly isn't tired enough to go to sleep for the night yet. That would freak me out too. Plus you changed his room so he's learning to deal with that change, too. I would let him go to bed later.
It's impossible to fall asleep when you're not tired enough yet.
You could still do prayer time but not have him go to bed right after.
Be glad he's not falling asleep on your right when you get home from daycare (meaning no nap at daycare) because then you wouldn't spend any time w/him at all. You wouldn't get to actually see your beautiful little one. (Silver lining). Like I said, just try to move his bedtime later. Best of luck!
I would definitely suggest that your son's nap-time be reduced. His total amount of sleep for proper growth and development should be around 10-12 hours a day. Our son is nearly three and takes a two hour nap every day. I would also suggest that while you are working at getting him back into a schedule that you give him some liquid melatonin. We give our son .025 mg when the clocks change, when we travel, as well as when his schedule has been altered. It helps to re-regulate his circadian rhythm. We get ours from Natural Grocer and use the Natrol 1mg bottle. Four droppers full is one mg, so we only give one.
