Hi Mamas:
I live in an area with a very highly regarded college prep charter school. There is a very competitive lottery for places and only about 40 kids get in. About 300 apply. I am wondering how you moms feel about this. To be frank, the idea of a kid's academic opportunities being left to chance is so very disheartening to me. I am asking this because a friend of mine has a child who would have thrived in this school but she did not get in. Other kids I know who are not as academically focused did get in. I guess on some level I would like to see something besides chance be the deciding factor on a child's future.
I also feel like such systems can be divisive. Kids who are friends apply, one gets in, one doesn't. Kid who gets in starts talking about all the great opportunities, technology and small class size and kid who didn't is sort of left wondering what to say/do. Does not getting in demoralized that kid to the point that they do not achieve what they might have had they not even tried to lottery? This school also asks for a $3000 a year "donation" from each family, so I do know there are some families that do not apply because the cannot afford it and do not want to be pressured.
BTW I have not seen Waiting for Superman, I am a public college teacher, so this issue is both connected to my family and my professional life and I did not place my child's name in the lottery for both philosophical and practical reasons.
(One reason I am asking this is because I am interested in starting an grant-based enrichment program for 7-12th grade academically talented students, but I want it to be accessible to more students than the traditional charter programs. If you mamas with kids in that age group have ideas about what you would like to see in such a program, I would love to hear them)
Heidi—did you read the entire post? You state “Your argument seems to be that since the charter schools cannot help EVERY child then they should not help any children; that seems ridiculous to me.” That is not what I am saying at all. I am trying to create more access which is why I am trying to begin an academic enrichment program that will be accessible to more than 40 kids in our county and which will not be lottery based. I have 19 years of teaching experience and am very well aware of the inequity that exists in public education. You quickness to distort my post, which is an open-ended request for opinions and an offering of my own opinion that lotteries are divisive and disheartening and then to call me (are at least an argument I never made) ridiculous, reveals a great deal about the inability we seem to have in this country to discuss education openly without resorting ideological positions (both sides on the charter school issue do this, and that is what I am trying to get beyond).
The school I am discussing was initially given a very large start-up grant by a very well known and very lucrative corporation. The school does specifically request a $3000 annual donation and at a recent school board meeting the issue was brought up because the principal sent out an email to parents that had not “donated.” The school board member was concerned that a person in a position of authority should not be sending out such an email. The ACLU is also going after them because this “donation” seems to be illegal. The parents are also asked to contribute time, which I think is great. As to favoritism, the children of staff and faculty and all previous and current board members are automatically given a place at this school, as are siblings. To get on the board is an arduous process and I would guess that some ‘connected” people have a better chance. None of the parents I know who applied to the board even got interviews, but I do not know why.
I left these details out of my first post because I really want to know how moms feel about the kids that are not picked in the lottery, which is why I asked the question about the enrichment program. The feeling I am getting is that folks who get it are happy and say things like, “well at least everyone has an equal chance.” The folks who do not get in can be very upset, especially when they do not have any other options. They know how disadvantaged their kids are going to be. I just cannot go along with the idea that “Life’s not fair and kids need to learn that” or that there is not enough money to make it perfect for everyone and that is just the way that it is. The thing that makes me nuts is that a very small group gets perfect and the rest are simple told that is just the way it is. It isn’t as if the folks that get in have earned it, although I do understand your points about how a lottery is the only “fair” way to do this. I do not have another method, which is why I want there to be more access for more kids.
You just reminded me that I want to watch Waiting for Superman.
A lottery might not be ideal, but what alternative would you suggest? The school only has so much room.
As far as it being divisive - life's not fair, and kids need to learn that.
I think that a lottery is the only far way to do it for a school like that. I mean, I am sure every parent that put their kids name in think the same about their kids as you do your friends child. You may think this or that kid is less deserving of the opportunity, but I guarantee that the people who love that child do not feel the same. If the school is that much better, I think the issue is why are the regular public schools so far behind? We need to find better ways to fund our schools so that they can be more competitive with the high cost private ones.
Many high quality charter schools have helped families get an excellent education for their children. Most of these families could never afford a private school's tuition and, were it not for the charter school, would be forced to send their children to a failing public school where they would not receive a proper education. Your argument seems to be that since the charter schools cannot help EVERY child then they should not help any children; that seems ridiculous to me.
As for the lottery system, it is legally required for a charter school (which, although not part of a school district is still a public school of choice) to select its students in this manner. Charter schools are not allowed to base their admission on academic ability or social connections (i.e. the parents are friends with the Dean or the parents are influential in the community etc.). That discriminatory garbage is reserved for private schools.
Personally, I am all for charter schools. A charter school is like a laboratory where educational methods can be tested and proved. Charter schools have PROVED that you can take a kid from a poor background, a bad neighborhood, a history of poor academic performance, and you can properly educate that child and send him on to college and a good career! It is simply amazing and worthwhile work that is being done in the good charter schools (I will not argue that not-so-good charter schools also exist, but they generally do not last long). The hard part is applying the lessons learned (by educators) in charter schools to the rest of the public schools. Unfortunately the system is so broken that it clings to its worst attributes and fights and screams when anyone attempts to reform it. This is why I am proud to support high quality charter schools in the meantime.
Also, I have never heard of a charter school requiring parents of the students to donate anything other than their time. It is probably illegal for a charter school to require donations, are you sure that the school in question is doing this or is it just a rumor?
Update:
So it sounds like the charter school you are dealing with IS doing some illegal and/or unethical things, I can see why that might sour your view. But I maintain that it is the exception, not the rule. And if your problem is really with the lottery system then what IS your answer to it? Let in only the "smart" kids who "deserve" a better education? Really, what is your opinion, because just complaining that the lottery isn't fair and may hurt some kids feelings doesn't do anyone any good. I commend you on wanting to help children succeed academically, and I wish you success, but you WILL have to limit the number of students you help, there is no getting around it unless you have unlimited funds and facilities. No matter how you select your students someone is bound to get their feelings hurt and claim that the process was not fair, and yes, that’s the nature of life.
It is a "public school" still, so really they can not just pick and choose. The lottery system is what is in place for public education.
I worked in a magnet program and it was a lottery system. It was tough because we had kids who really worked our program for all it was worth and those that were just there because their parents wanted them there.
If you failed a required course in our program you were asked to leave, this did open up a few spots if they failed in the first nine weeks.
It was tough to have kids there that you could tell really could have cared less.
We had a local back-to-basics school and their rule was (it has since been changed) that you signed your child up at age 3 and they went on the list. However, if your child had a July-Dec BD it was unlikely that you would get in. My daughter had a Sept. BD so I started her the following year and she got in. I guess parents complained and the rule was changed to a lottery system. I personally liked the BD method because at least you could ensure that your child could get in if you waited a year. The lottery situation is frustrating because it is based on luck and you would hope it's based on something else such as aptitude or the commitment of the parent. In the end, though, I think that the idea that getting your child into a certain school will have a remarkable difference in their academic experience is over-rated. I think a school is important but I think parental involvement and their commitment to education is more important.
I think Heidi put it very well. Sure it's not perfect but there's not enough public money to make it perfect for everyone. I find part of the incentive to work is potentially having to pay for private school bc I am not satisified with the public options. Or we may have to move to a district where I like the public schools. I don't feel it's my "right" for my child to get into a charter school or good public one. Just luck or planning or saving our money.
We applied at a fundamental school this year and at first were wait listed. One of my daughters very good friends got in, but 2 others did not as well. I was very upset and it was all "woe is me" and "life is not fair" because I felt we really needed it more as our "zoned" school is not terrific and we couldn't afford private. And she was #1 on the wait list but then dropped to #7 because of "sibling preference" which again upset me, but only because I was sad for my daughter. Well, the school ended up opening another class, so my daughter did get in. Thinking about it all of those months made me realize there really is no "fair" way to do it. At least at our fundamental school, the parents must be involved and attend every PTA meeting or your child is kicked out. (This is an elementary fundamental school). And these kids who are not academically focused- well their parents probably would say they need it more so they can become academically focused. I am not sure what is the right solution here, because it seems to me for our particular fundamental school, if you didn't already have a sibling there, it was going to be very difficult to get into. I am thankful we hit the "school jackpot" and were accepted. We also don't have any fees to pay (is that even legal for a public school to do?) so at least EVERY family (poor, middle class or wealthy) has the same opportunity to attend the school as the next.
It is a bummer as we are on a waitlist for some of these schools, but because it is still part of the school district and publicly funded they have to do a lottery or waitlist I think. They cannont discrminate for religion, special needs etc etc. I think that this is why they have to do the lottery. I could be just blowing smoke but I think this is why.
L.,
Thanks for your post, for your service as a teacher and for your interest in starting something beneficial for kids in the absence of decent programs available to all.
It's a shame that more people here aren't providing more positive feedback for your program, as you requested, but instead are dwelling on the hard but true facts of the system. Sadly uncreative and unhelpful.
I'm a mother of a two year old and have no professional educational background so I don't have a lot to offer but I do hope that some people will chime in with some more positive and helpful thoughts for us all to benefit from.
Some quick ideals I'd think would help any child would be ensuring a strong arts program alongside science and math since they're all so connected and since the arts are so neglected these days. I also think that a child's education should not be in jeopardy because a parent/parents are not, for whatever reason, providing an ideal support system or are unable/unwilling to be fully involved in participating in the program. A mentor program could be built into your program so that say, if a child happens to be gifted, yet the parents are uninvolved, that child could have even more support from the school/mentor to make up for the loss. I'm thinking of underpriviledged children but ideally the mentor program would be there for anyone who needed it (since wealth doesn't automatically ensure an active parental role in a child's education).
Overall I very much agree that regardless of the school, a child can succeed based on the support they receive by parents or other mentors. I hate that we even have to have this conversation and that kids do have to face this type of rejection over something so fundamental. However, kids are resilient and if driven and supported will bounce back and will flourish no matter what. And on the social level, if the friendships are strong enough, they too will survive and benefit from the different paths taken by each person.
Good luck Mama!
