R.K.
technically if it isn't a court order then yes she can. She can also it do it if she feels its in the best interest of the child.
if summer custody dates have already been agreed upon (verbal and in writing ie emails) can the primary custodian then change the dates and shorten the amount of time that orginally agreed upon? Time was extended over the 30 day period (an extra 13 days was alloted). I do have the written emails confirming the dates. She just got mad at us and threatened to shorten the time that was already agreed upon. (She got mad bc she said she was being extremely gracious giving us more time with him and that she deserves respect. Then my husband politely told her that "keep in mind that you have asked on 3 different occasions to change the schedule and asked us to give him back a week early, that isnt exactly giving us respect" and that set her off and she said that since we didnt respect her -- we asked if we could pick him up at 4 instead of 6pm bc it takes us over 3 hours roundtrip to get to her house and back home.. my husband and i have a 2 year old too.. and the kids get crazy in all the traffic. She said by asking that we were not respecitng her time with her son who she sees every day. So she said we now could just have july 1-31.. it's really ridiculous and childish.. and we go through it on a daily basis. A few months ago we all agreed to work together as team and to work out our differences but she never tries.. she just claims that she does. )
We all sat down together in April and made a schedule. I have an email of the schedule and her confirming it. But it is different than what the court order says (it states July 1-31st for the non custodial with one weekend for the custodial. We changed it and she got two weekends in July plus two visitations and we got an extra 3 days in June and 10 in August).
The date of the emails start on April 30th, which is after the April 15th date in the court order. I don't know if that is going to hurt us or not.
If she does get away with this then I am assuming that we do not have to abide by our agreement of the weekend she chose or the few nights we allowed for her to pick him up for dinner or a movie. However, I don't think my husband would keep him away from her because we know that a child needs to be with their parents.
** Please no preaching from primary custodians. Trust me when I say she is not a good person sho generally does take her son;s best interest at heart but only her own evil vindictive selfish ways. She is one of those moms that you think don't really exist but do.,
BTW, this is not a new problem... it has been on going for the past 3 years. And it all has been documented but we know that we can't do anything to stop her. She lives a hour and a half away, we cannot fight for joint custody bc of the ligistics (sp??). She has violated the court order multiple times and held him from us... out of spite not because she thinks her son will love us more than he loves her. It is to hurt my husband (they were never married btw).
And to make things clear... we were not fighting back with her. We also respond calm and cool but she gets worked up no matter what. She is just spiteful and crazy... seriously.
Thanks for the advice, I guess we just have to lose time with our little man... as usual.
technically if it isn't a court order then yes she can. She can also it do it if she feels its in the best interest of the child.
It depends what's written on the court approved child visitation agreement.
If in the order it says that you are to communicate via email (ours does) and what is agreed upon is final, then you should have the right to take the days.
Unfortunately, most often the parenting plan doesn't offer this, so it is the non-custodial parent (usually the dad) who ends up suffering or getting "bullied" by the other.
I'd take a look at the parenting plan and if it doesn't say anything about emails, then I'd just try to stay low and quiet around the mom- since it sounds like she's still holding a grudge and using the child as a pawn.
Sorry you and your family have to go through this. Just keep a hard copy of all emails, and document EVERYTHING in hopes that in future court dates you'll be able to provide enough evidence to get custody.
Good luck!
zsMomma and Marie C are correct. If the court order specifies what days and times are to be parenting times they cannot be changed except by agreement between the 2 parents. If one parent does not agree to the other parent's request then both parents have to abide by the court order plans or go back to court to have them changed.
I suggest that the best way to handle this is to calmly agree with the mother and then wait and see what happens. You said she did this because she's angry. If you get angry right back then she has your angry energy to push against and will continue to be angry.
I've worked a lot with people like the woman you're talking about. My own adopted daughter can be that way at times with me. I've discovered that when I agree with someone who is angry that nearly all the time they will stop fighting. It takes two to fight.
Here is an example from my own life. My granddaughter was with me and we were with a friend of mine and her granddaughter who was visiting from out of country. My daughter was angry with me, called me and insisted that I bring her daughter back home. I said, OK, and started twards the stairs. She could hear something and asked what I was doing. I said, "going back to the car." There was another pause before she told me that it was OK. I should stay and let the girls play. She then lectured me about how she's the mother and she has the right to tell me to bring her daughter home and I agreed. Two hours later she met us at the skating rink, friendly and cheerful.
Every once in awhile my daughter gets sensitive and feels insecure about the possibility that I'll "take over" her daughter. I'm guessing that this sort of insecurity is what is causing your step child's mother to act this way. It sounds like this is a new situation for all of you. She and you and your husband are also feeling insecure and the need to stand firm. Everyone will lose if this continues. You are setting the foundation for future agreements which does understandably cause everyone to be extra sensitive and feel the need to exert power.
In this sort of situation, power is really held by the one who can react out of a sense of security. If the child's father agrees to her demands there is a chance that as the summer goes along she will relax because she won't feel the need to be sure she has power.
Have the child's father tell her he'll agree in a calm manner and let it drop. The two of you won't feel secure because this is a new experience and a new way of doing things for both of you. Over the years ahead, as you see this work, you will feel secure and so will she. Remember that you are setting a foundation. It may not go smoothly at first. It will take time, perhaps months, perhaps years to develop secure feelings and ways to co-operate with each other.
You have nothing to lose. If you fight her now, you know you will be fighting all summer. If you start out agreeing, you are allowing for the possibility of cooperative feelings to develop.
After thought. My daughter and her ex had some difficulty with parenting times at first. It was like he was trying to prove that he only had to take his son on the days and for the times specified in the court order. My daughter, and frankly me too, were angry. It felt like he was rejecting his son. My daughter tried to encourage him to take his son more often and to be more flexible about the days. After 3-4 months of this she decided she was just going to go along with his rigid schedule. She couldn't protect her son from his father if he really was wanting to not have much to do with him. In another few months the father relaxed. He and my daughter are easy going about the parenting time now.
It takes time to settle in to a new routine and a new way of looking at life. My grandson was a baby when they were divorced. My grandson is now 7 and his father has obviously enjoyed his company for several years now.
I strongly believe that you, your husband, and child will come out ahead if you can be flexible and calm at the beginning. Go along with her new schedule and see what happens. Your husband is right. His child needs to be with both parents. He also needs both parents to be gracious with each other.
Remember too that all communication needs to be between your husband and his ex. She will feel threatened if she has to deal thru you.
To my understanding from my lawyer friends, if it is in verbal and written documentation but not through the generic court docs, as primary custodial parents, we can change it but if there is a disagreement,then yes, you would have to go to court. I was thinking of doing joint custody with my daughters father and thought we would have to physically go to court but I was told if we did it verbally and written that would be good enough.
Please visit http://www.freeadvice.com. It is a legal forum where they have a section on custody right down to grandparent rights! You post your state and your question and look for responses especially from senior members who are often judges/lawyers. I hope that helps you. I can't imagine she can go against court order without repercussions. Are the two of you willing to fight and take her back to court?
If a court order is violated multiple times, she is in contempt of court and can be jailed and/or fined. She could also loose custody. ALL violations must be documented and reported.
The father of the child has the court ordered documents, when its time for a visit and the mother does not comply, call the police. (He should have the documents with him at all time when visiting). I would let her know in advance that he plans to get the police involved and if she ends up being arrested, he will take immediate custody. Most of all do not make an idle threat, follow through if she does not comply.
Blessings...
This BS about alloted time and all that...no she can't shorten anything within the confines of the law. And if you have emails and a visitation schedule then if the cops show up, show it to them and say...here ya go...and we'll have him back on THIS date.
My ex tried to do this more than once. I am the custodial parent but when it came right down to it, I made sure they were there on schedule. It was the NON CUSTODIAL that kept "not putting them on the plane"...
If you have it in writing, if you have a schedule from the court (divorce decree) then i'd simply nod politely and say what ever and then plan my vacation without batting an eye. A fight is what she wants...and if you keep fighting she's getting her way. Treat her like you'd treat a 3 yr old temper tantrum thrower...apease then do what you want (within the agreed alloted time).
I simply CANNOT STAND so called parents who use their kids as pawns. It's pathetic...
Good luck to you and yours.
Whatever the court agreement says is what goes. No, primary person can not change dates unless it is in the court agreement that they have that privaledge. I would remind the person of this and let them know you can take them back to court if they are in breach of the court agreement. Otherwise try to work it out in a civilized way
Let me be frank. Can she, yes. Legally should she, no. But you have no legal recourse to force her to comply with any agreement short of hiring an attorney and taking her to court. Both parents are supposed to follow the written, agreed upon plan as per the court documents (divorce decree/parenting plan). Quite simply if she arbitrarily changes it without his agreement, then she is in contempt of the court documents. Not that being in contempt does you much good as you will have to go to court to remedy the situation which in your case will be well after the summer vacation. Our stepdaughter was kept from us weeks on end becuase her mother refused to allow visitation. We had to call out the sheriff every time we were supposed to pick her up. He would file a report which we had to present in court. But even the sheriff cannot force the ex to comply with the orders. The sheriff can only file a report stating she violated the agreement. If you have to go the sheriff route, you will need your official divorce decree (with the seal) and all written correspondence documenting the agreed upon summer vacation. The sheriff will attempt to contact the ex so you need to know her phone number and/or address. Frankly it was cold comfort every time we drove home empty handed because she refused to be reasonable. Good luck and lots of hugs.