Broaching the Subject of Marriage - Best Way to Go About It??

They absolutely have to have a discussion about everything. Marriage, finances (they should know each others), children. That is the only way either one can make an informed, responsible decision about whether to move forward or move on. She could just pretend and wait and find out 5 years from now that he's not the person for her, or she could jump into marriage and find out he's got debt she never dreamed of. Trust me, that is a NIGHTMARE that could take years and years to work through and affect her being able to be a stay-at-home parent should she choose, etc. She also needs to discuss kids. She may want her career while he may have visions of her being a stay-at-home mom while he goes about and does his thing. She needs to just be honest and open and talk to him. These are huge issues and there's no time like the present....

Wait, she hasn't broached any of the big important questions about marriage and they have been together for 2 + years? What do they talk about?

Well in the living together aspect I am going to run to scientific studies:
http://divorce.suite101.com/article.cfm/living_together_b...

In the same vain as some of the other answers -- If they can't discuss kids, finances, the intent of the relationship, and the future, then they are no where near ready to get married.

My guess is that she is paranoid about scaring him away and that she avoids talking to him about serious things because she is insecure that he will break up with her. She sounds overly cautious. I think instead of advising her about him, I would ask her if she feels she is a great catch. Hopefully she does, and then, tell her that she should set her standards high- no living together, no crappy finances with the guy. Use it as a time to build up her self esteem as to how wonderful she is and what kind of guy she deserves because I think she may have freaked out over her age (30) and maybe she is scared that she can't do better than him.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think they have any business talking about marriage if they've been together 2-1/2 years and she doesn't know anything about his finances and apparently he doesn't know that she might not want children.
It just sounds to me like they don't know each other very well and talking about marriage at this point seems premature. That's just my opinion.
That's what I would tell her.
It sounds like they have lots to talk about before they even consider living together or getting married. That's a discussion best saved for later it would seem to me.

Best wishes.

Wow, one would think they would know each other better after being together for so long. And yes, they need to talk this weekend.

My husband and I knew this kind of stuff since our first date, simply because we talked about our 5 year plans and what our goals and dreams for the future was. It got all of that trouble out of the way since we were comfortable about it and since we didn't feel any pressure from the other. If they feel comfortable talking with each other, then this should be able to happen naturally.

They just need to have a night were they say , where is this heading, what in 5 years, what do you plan to be/have/doing... what are your goals and dreams, how to do plan to accomplish them...

I wonder, what have they been talking about for the past several years? Marriage takes tons of communication, it's something that one should be able to do with a person you date as well, so if the communication isn't there now, how will it be there later?

If he has brought up his desire for children, she needs to be honest that it isn't in her plan... that could be a deal breaker for a lot of people, or it may not. This happened to my friend, he was married for several years to a women who never wanted children, but told him she did. Once he found out she had different plans, she turned out to reveal this whole other side of herself he never knew. They divorced, but it would have saved years of heartache had they been upfront with each other from the beginning.

I would tell her that if she is considering marrying anyone, the communication lines need to be open. They should be talking about where they see their future and anything that impacts that. They need to have an understanding on certain issues before they get married - kids, finances, etc. I don't have a problem with living together before marriage. Better to know if you are truly compatible before marrying, and they are 30. I think that she should be able to comfortably bring up these topics to him to see what his opinions are and where/when he sees things moving forward.

It seems unusual to me that they have dated for 2 1/2 years, and haven't talked about any of this stuff... that just seems off to me. I don't really have much advice for you, except to say that I definitely think they need to start communicating better, and on a deeper level. And it kind of seems to me that if they haven't been doing this already, at 2 1/2 years, maybe they aren't the best match. I'm not being judgmental, that's just my humble opinion. Curious to hear what others have to say.

I agree with a lot of the PPs...sounds like she doesn't know this guy at all.
I would suggest pre-marital counseling for them IF they are both open to the idea of marriage. My personal thought is that after 2.5 years, they haven't discussed anything so I think he's just not that into it.

I agree with Shane and Marci (and others). I think it is tragic that 2 people could be together that long and still be afraid to talk about major life issues like marriage, kids, finances, etc. The fact that she is emailing you to ask you if she should even talk to him about these things is a HUGE RED FLAG and the answer to the marriage question at this point in my opinion should be NO. You can not have a marriage based on fear of communication. So until they can talk openly and honestly, they probably should take a step back.
Also, it sounds like he's not interested in marrying her (at this point) since he also hasn't brought up these issues with her. Finances are a HUGE issue for men. Most men don't want to pop the question until they feel "financially stable," so maybe she has a legit fear (or he has a legit financial situation that he's concerned about). No matter what, she needs to be direct and find out the answer to every question she has about him before she deciedes to marry him (and vice versa).
Sorry to be blunt, but I also find that people who are afraid of confrontation and are worried about offending other people also respond well to upfront communication (and if nothing else, can learn from it). So please...model direct, upfront, honest communication to her and encourage her to not only talk to him about everything she's worried about, but also to be completely honest, clear, and direct with no fear of his responses.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I do believe in marriage as a life-long commitment, so there should be no walls between the two of them to prevent them from coming together completely as a couple. So the advice you could give to her might be: have open, honest, clear, no-holds-barred communication, in a respectful and loving manner, with the mindset that if they truly are on different paths, that it is ok for either or both of them to respectfully bow out of the relationship and move on. And if they are on the same page...wait until they are married to live together. She should enjoy those extra months without having to deal with his laundry, bathroom, and kitchen messes--and marriage is SO much better if you wait to live together (for some of those very reasons)!!! Best of luck to all of you!

You are so thoughtful to research this before giving her feedback. What a great friend you are... I am kinda point blank and I have no problem asking a man that I know well enough to sleep with what his debt is. I just say, How much do you owe in cc debt? Real easy. I figure if we are sleeping together, we feel comfortable. I also assume that if I want to marry him that I feel comfortable. SO, my question to you is, why does she want to marry him if she doesn't feel comfortable enough to ask him basic questions you could ask a friend? If she hasn't been honest with him about how she feels about kids by now, why not? Something is a little off if she is doing the deed but unable to be candid with him. I would wonder if she really had feelings for him or if she just felt she should marry him because she had invested 2 years already. It's a tough place for you to be I can see. No one wants to spell out the tough stuff cuz it usually falls hard on delicate ears, however, if you don't point out the obvious and ask the tough questions, what kind of friend does that make you? geeze, I wish you the best with this. It sounds challenging. Be her friend by being honest. Good luck :)

I am surprised that she wants to talk about marriage with a man that she doesn't even feel comfortable with enough to ask him about his finances and talking about children and marriage. She might be rushing in to this too soon. Maybe she needs more time to get to know him better.

Wow! First off...YES! They need to talk.

After 2 1/2 years, she really should know all this information, he should know it about her but it doesn't seem like they talk which doesn't bode well for a strong marriage.

If they disagree about kids, they should both move on. That's too big of a deal to linger around not being upfront about.

As for marriage, my rule after learning the hard way is "a date and a diamond before you live together"...really, if he can't make that committment, you make the committment to share finances.

Anyway, yes, they should talk, she needs to be honest, he does too and then they need to figure out if they really have a future together or not.

-M

NL.
I see you had lots of answers already, and I pretty much ditto every one. But the advice to give your friend would be on how to start the conversation she should so have already had a sense of after 2 1/2 years. She should just ask him "Where does he see this relationship of theirs going? " That will open the door and she should ask the direct questions if his response is that he wants to continue to be with her.

C. D.

They've been together 2.5 years and she doesn't know any of this? Gosh, I find that kind of weird. I don't know what you could tell her. It's THEIR relationship and what kind do they have if she doesn't feel after 2 1/2 years that she can openly and honestly talk to him? I hope you get some good advice. Good luck!

You said the correct thing.
She could get a detective to check him out. People do.
She could say, "there are so things I have to talk about".
Living together without marriage is often bad for the woman.
Lawyers don't recommend it.
B.