Behavior Problems - Lake Oswego,OR

Lying is common at this age. Taking him to the Dr isn't going to do anything and is pretty extreme. You have to continually work with him and guide him and shape his behavior just like you would with any other disciplinary issue.

Dr. Sears has some expert advice for discipline and teaching kids ethics and such:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior

specific advice on lying:
http://www.askdrsears.com/search/node/lying

I would ease up on the talking and explaining. You don't want to exactly ignore the bad behavior don't address it verbally.

Make sure he knows what the consequence is for bad behavior. For ex., if he isn't listening, say you ask him to put things away and he doesn't, then give him his consequence w/o any explanation.

He senses you want him to say something to you but he doesn't, so he knows he's got the 1-up on you. Don't play his game (even though he'sonly 4).

My 5 yo kind of went through something like that, but my guess is he didn't know he was lying. When I caught him lying, I'd tell him what the truth was and that didn'tmatch what he said. If it didn't match (lying) then he was going to get in trouble.

You are talking too much. Stop explaining yourself and giving him reason to negotiate his behavior. He should either adhere to what you tell him or you provide a consequence. He thinks you bluff and you are easy to manipulate, so he calls you on it, and in essence you might be subconsciously teaching him to lie by him not believing what you say...If you say you are going to do something, do it. At his age, he can read if you mean it or not.

Tommy, put away your shoes or you will not get to play with your toy. Don't add to it by explaining why shoes go there or why it is important to listen to you about the dynamics of shoes...just an example, but hope you understand what I am saying!

My pediatrician explained things to me as so.........your child up until they are 18 hears this.......their name, blah blah blah blah blah. No need to say any more.

If he is doing something wrong just tell him "no" and don't go any further w/things - as soon as I started doing that w/my girls, I realized they understood English! Good luck!

sounds like you're trying to teach him how to reason and make good decisions. He's too young for this. His brain development is not to the point that he can reason. Consistent and immediate consequences teach him how to behave. It's if you do this, this will happen. At this age he isn't able to figure out that if he does this, this will happen but if he does this, that will happen, or etc. He acts impulsively, without thinking. Don't ask him for his choices. Tell him the choice he made was wrong. He'll understand this.

I agree that you're setting him up for believing he can manipulate you. You want to know his reasons. So if he can figure out the "right" reason he'll be free. It's too confusing when you want to know why he did something. It doesn't matter why. It only matters that he did or did not do something and that he has a consequence consistently, unemotionally, and immediately given.

Along this same line, don't ask him what he did when you know what he did. Say, "you didn't put your toys away. Do it now or go to your room." Going to his room is the consequence for not doing it. Then when he's able to say he's sorry and put away the toys he can come out of his room.

Don't argue with him trying to convince him that you know he's lying. It only causes him to keep repeating his lie which reinforces lying. If he doesn't already believe it's the truth he will after repeating it several times. When he doesn't tell the truth tell him you know that's not true and go from there. No discussion. At this age deal with what he did or didn't do that was wrong and ignore the lie.

He's at the age when he's learning about the difference between the truth and a lie. He doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality. When you tell him that what he's said is not the truth you are teaching him the difference. Not believing him is the consequence.

An example of how preschoolers, even into the 2nd and 3rd grade don't understand about fantasy and truth is how scared they get by their dreams, by even mildly scary movies and stories. They feel real to them.

When he lies he may even think he's telling the truth because what he says is the way he wants it to be. For this reason be careful that his consequences for misbehavior is appropriate for his age and given in love. Fear of mom's, dad's anger can create the need to lie.

I respond when this happens with my granddaughter with "that's a great story but it's not the truth." I don't argue with her. We don't have a discussion. I tell her this is the way it is and this is what is going to happen now.

I never ask her if she did something when I already know she did, thus eliminating her need to lie.

And I never make her misbehavior a "big deal." It was something she should or should not have done and there is a consequence for it. I try to make the consequence fit the behavior as much as possible. They call it natural consequences. I've found sending a child to their room until they can behave to fit the natural consequence criteria frequently. I don't want to be in the same room with someone misbehaving. And...the child needs time to regain their good behavior.

When she was 5 she said that her aunt lived next to the school. I told her that wasn't true and she told a creative story about how it was true. I finally thought to say, "that is a very nice story and I wish it were true." She agreed that she wished it was true. Thirty minutes later she said the same thing. I could tell her she was lying or I could validate her wish to have her aunt live next to the school and let her know it was a good fantasy and not real. She didn't need to be disciplined for her creative thinking. She did need to know that her story is a fantasy and not reality.

I would say that it's fairly normal for a four year old. At this age, kids are learning about how to press boundaries, and are getting a grasp on the fact that the way they see the world isn't actually the only way to see the world. The fact that your four year old thinks that he can trick you/lie to you is kind of a sign of intelligence - he's abstracting from the reality he knows and he understands now that "what happened" is a matter of opinion.

I have a four year old too, and he has gone through this, and is still testing everything. We've had conversations about the value of being an honest person, and about the difference between being creative and being able to tell stories vs. lying.

I think that the best way to handle this as a parent is to be consistent with setting expectations and enforcing consequences for behavior. Address the lying when it happens by saying something calm like "we tell the truth, and take responsibility for ourselves." I only address it once, and try to avoid harping on it, because your attention can just reinforce the behavior. Then you enforce the consequence for the poor behavior. After the consequence, if it looks like he wants to keep holding to the lie, I'll talk to him about his behavior and his choices, but if he's laughing about it (admitting he lied, or saying it was a joke) I just say it's not funny, and move on.

I feel like as a parent it's important to try to tease apart what is my emotional reaction to his behavior (how is his behavior hooking me into responding in a way that's not helpful or fair) and what is appropriate and fair responding.

I hope this is helpful, if at least to confirm for you that this is somewhat normal and developmentally appropriate for a four year old.

The fact that he is thinking of these things on his own shows he's a bright boy who shouldn't have any problems figuring out what you expect from him, so simplify your approach. He more than likely is getting satisfaction from lying to you when you question him. Does it matter why he didn't listen, smiles and laughs when he should be listening, or lied? Not so much at 4, and he may not really be sure himself. What matters is that he changes his behavior.

What are his consequences? The wrong choices he makes should have consistent consequences so he knows his behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable, without you re-explaining it to him. When he is sent to his room to sit and not play, loses TV for the day, a trip to the park, or another privilege, then he'll start to think about what he did and if it was worth it. When he genuinely apologizes for his behavior and doesn't repeat it he'll be learning that in life you need to make good choices, because otherwise you may not like the outcome as much as you thought you would.

Stop questioning him about the why, and emphasize that he is not to do such and such, and that if he does he will have the consequence of _______. When he does something he shouldn't have tell him he's earned a trip to his room, lost a privilege, or whatever you decide is appropriate, don't talk to him about it but enforce consequences consistently.

T.,
There is nothing physically wrong with your son! He's completely normal. You should sign up for Babycenter.com. They will send you weekly e-newsletters about what's expected of your child at his age.

He has figured out that not everything is real, and that he can tell you something that is not true. His brain is developing rapidly and he's learning every day about action and consequences. I can tell you he's not hearing a thing by you trying to talk things out with him, other than "I'm getting a lot of lovely attention whenever I lie to mom!"

You just lay out the rules, because you are in charge. When you lie to me you will be punished. No exceptions. Then you enforce the rule without emotion. For example, "No, mom, I didn't hit my sister and make her cry." "Son, I saw you do it, and you just lied to me when you said you didn't. Now you will go stand in the corner for 4 minutes because you are not allowed to lie."

It is a phase, it lasts longer for some kids than others. My first two girls were trying it out for about a month, I suppose, and the looks on their faces are so priceless when you catch them lying!!! Because they are still small enough to not have it all figured out, and they believe you to be omniscient sometimes when you catch them! My 3 year old is currently testing the waters, but it's always about silly things and is just here and there. It will come soon enough. *Sigh*

Good luck, and make sure you're consistent and don't negotiate!

This is pretty normal for his age- my son is just starting down this road. He is testing and learning, possibly with a creative bent and possibly with a control/manipulative bent. Either way, you need to be simple and consistent so that he can learn what is acceptable.
There are many parenting books on how to handle unwanted behavior and teaching good behavior- my husband and i have been having this discussion recently. It is very important to me that we are both consistent. What Marda P said below is similar to how we are handling things. What is best for you & son depends on your personailites and how you want to raise him. Whatever your choice, make sure you are consistent and build a solid base to build on as he gets older.

Outside of that, make sure you continue to show him unconditional love and find good behavior to praise.
You can also encourage the creative side at appropriate times, its good to encourage creative stories and model ways to be creative, but keep it separate from dealing with the 'lying/manipulative' part. Be sure to label what you are doing and make it fun, over time he will learn what is OK and what is not.

Try using the love and logic methods (Google the web site). For us, three and a half was a much worse age than two! By the time our son hit four I was ready to do him in, his behaviour was so bad, but at four it was like a switch flipped and he was a nice boy again! Hang in there!

Got to nip those lies in the bud. When you catch him at a lie it's time out or no watching a show he likes.
Arthur is on OPB. He and his friends were very good examples for younger children. Even thought Arthur and his friends are in 3rd grade they fascinate children 3-6 and model the right way to go about interactions.
I even watched Arthur with my grandson. It was so refreshing to find a program that took on all sorts of situations a child might get into and watch them come to the right decision.