Behavior in Kindergarten - Stephens City,VA

I think he would do better in a public school with a normal sized classroom on 20-25 kids.

this is not working.. and you are paying money for this.. go to the public school.. see if it is a better fit for him.

I can only think of a handful of kids that ever acted like this in kindergarten.

I know you said you all saw a Professional and they did not find anything, did they at least advise you or give you some tools? Would you consider a second opinion?

How does he act at home. Does he listen to you and his dad?

Do you have to keep an eye on him at every moment?

Does he play well with other children in the neighborhood?

Can he play by himself? For how long?

How is he with transitions.. Ex, When you tell him, "ok, time to put away your toys! Then wash your hands so we can eat."

What if he says I want to play longer and you tell him, sorry out of time.. How does he react. Can he do this with no fuss? All of the time, some of the time, never?

When he has a tantrum, meltdown etc, how do you all handle it? How often does this happen at home?

What is this "special attention" you mention? You say he needs this? What does this include?

It could be he just needs another year to emotionally mature. Has he never been in daycare? If not, this structure and the expectations could be a bit overwhelming for him. especially if all day seems too much for him.. This is not unusual that a child be held back to gain emotional maturity.

It sounds to me like this school is not a good fit for him. Can you move him during the holiday break?

Here is why I think this:
1) A self-policing policy for K students sounds developmentally inappropriate to me. And it's clearly not working for your son.
2) He's a very social child, but he's in a class with only 4 other students, none of whom he seems to click with (I say this because he's looking for other kids to play with at recess). A bigger class size may be much better for him.
3) Things that happen at school are best dealt with at school. They shouldn't be calling you to handle every tantrum. An elementary school teacher and principal should be able to handle this, but they are not, and your son knows it - he knows just what to do to get mommy to come and get him. You said it yourself - their discipline actually feeds his ambition to get attention from either the teacher or you.
4) Your son is excelling academically. In my area, the public school is actually better for kids that are outside of average, because the teachers have a lot of experience taking a single lesson plan and teaching it at several levels within the same classroom. In my area, some teachers at private schools don't have the resources or experience to do this, because they aren't required to (the public school teachers are required to accommodate all levels).

I only know of a few kids that caused problems in my kids K classes. I think it's completely unacceptable and the school should call you if he is having those issues. I expect the school to keep my kids safe and in a healthy environment, your child is disrupting that environment.

Why is he allowed to bring toys from home to school? That's a huge no-no, for the reason you saw here...it caused a big problem. Hitting is never okay. Teasing is not okay either. I can see where a 5 year old will hit if he can't find the right words to use, but he should absolutely go home if he hit.

I also think it's an unfair statement to say you're not sure why the school is having such a hard time. Has your son been raised and told to respect all other adults? Has he had encounters with other adults in authority positions before this year? Keep in mind that even though he is one of 4, he is not the only kid. The other 3 kids parents are expecting the same thing you are and it's only one teacher. She doesn't have 100% of her time to focus on just one kid.

I think he needs an outlet, maybe a therapist to talk to. He needs to learn more appropriate ways to express his anger or frustration. His behavior sounds more like a toddler to me than a 5 year old. I'm sorry because I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's just my observation.

When my kids have had problems in school, we have always worked as a team with the teacher. We bring the kid to the conference so they can hear us working with the teacher and making a plan that will be followed at home and school. The kid and the teacher knows what the consequence will be for a bad day at school. For each kid it's different, but everyone knows what the deal is. And we always stick to it. There is never a break...if the kid doesn't follow the rules/instructions, then there are consequences.
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Thank you for your SWH - it helps to ask a few more questions. Are his problems most often at recess? I would think if that is the case, then if he misbehaves, he loses recess. Simple. We have a 5th grader at our school that recently lost lunch/recess with the class because of her behavior...it worked to curb her behavior. Your son may need that. But I still think a conference in front of him where he sees you and the school (teacher, principle, etc) are on the same page as far as making him behave.

Just because he's academically ready for K doesn't mean he's socially or emotionally ready. Throwing tantrums is a sure sign of emotional immaturity.
My good friend's son had similar issues. He repeated K and it made a HUGE difference. By the time he started 1st grade he had caught up with his peers socially and emotionally and he enjoyed school so much more.
I think you need to look beyond his academic strengths, because if he isn't mature enough to function in a classroom it doesn't really matter how "advanced" he is, does it?
I think he just needs another year to grow and develop. He just doesn't seem mature enough for a full on structured school day.

Make sure that you and the school are on the same page as far as acceptable behaviour goes. If the child is allowed to interrupt you at home to get attention, he will expect to do the same with the teacher at school. If you tell him it is ok to bring his own toys to school, then he will be upset when the teacher tells him he can't play with them at recess. Discipline needs to be immediate and consistent, both at home and at school. Go over classroom and school rules with your child and your teacher and make those rules at home rules.

Reread what Laurie A had to say. She asks some very good questions. I hope you will take the time to answer them honestly and as objectively as is possible.

My son was never like what you describe, and he was young for kindergarten. Heck, he didn't act like that when he was enrolled in K4 (the very first time he was in any setting that didn't include me routinely--he was never in daycare). Some kids do need more time to adjust, but there is a difference between needing to adjust and having problems.
Go down the list Laurie asked. There are degrees of "adjustment", and what you describe sounds outside of normal to me.

Your school doesn't have the resources to put him in a room unattended and give him no attention. Those kinds of safety rooms are not present in many schools and frankly, loads of parents fight against them (they are more or less small rooms devoid of furniture). So, you'll need to come up with a different solution to the tantrum issue.

Dear mom, he's 5 and 5 year olds don't act like this. Sorry.

He needs professional evaluations. There is something going on. Have a professional psychologist that does evaluations for their income do this. They should have you, dad, each teacher, and maybe even other staff who interact with your child on a daily basis fill this paperwork out. They will each five their opinion on his behaviors and actions. The doc will take all the questionnaires and will be able to put together a valid report as to what might be going on.

My hubby and I are hardly ever in the same book, much less on the same page as far as anything to do with the kids. BUT on these questionnaires we had almost identical answers. The answers that differed were right next to each other. The teachers also had nearly the same answers as we did.

His first eval showed a strong result for Sensory Processing Disorder. We did a lot of stuff that was suggested to us and a lot of it worked, bouncing on a trampoline did NOT work. It wound him up like those never wind watches, the more you move the more they wind up...OMG! He would bounce then he would bounce off the walls for hours and hours, even way past midnight.

We learned a great deal about this disorder and made a lot of progress towards him succeeding in pre-school.

By the time he started Kindergarten he was on half a Ritalin in the morning before school and another half at lunch. He didn't have any more during the day after school. He's in st grade now and takes a whole Ritalin in the early morning and takes a half at lunch. So in 2 years he's gone up 1/2 pill.

Ritalin has been around the longest and it has minimal side effects for his ADHD, it's our miracle drug. He can sit still in class, focus, not go off having temper tantrums, etc...he's functional in class.

I suggest you have professional evaluations done by someone who does evaluations for their living. Pediatricians are not qualified to do evaluations. Well, in a way they are but it's like this. Would you go to an OB/GYN if you needed a heart surgery? No, you'd go to a Cardiologist or Heart surgeon. So even though the OB/GYN had clinical's and did study heart medicine they didn't study that area specifically to the point where they are experts.

He's old enough to be in this class, it only has 5 students. He should be flourishing in this environment. The teacher should have her eyes on each child every minute they are in class. She should never be able to say "I don't know what happened, I was working with another child". A kindergarten teacher in regular school might have 25-30 kids by herself and know if one was teasing or hurting another child. She should have been able to specifically tell you what happened to set your child off to this point.

I know it's late in the year to be thinking of this option, but have you thought of putting him back in preschool for the rest of the year, and letting him start kindergarten next year?

I say this because preschools -- good ones, anyway -- are designed to teach the very issues your son seems to be struggling with: social norms, self-control -- functioning in a group, in short. The assumption behind kindergarten is that kids have at least a basic mastery of these skills and they're ready to learn to read. If your son doesn't, then it might be better to keep him in a setting that's really set up to teach group/social skills, and let him start kindergarten when he's ready to shine.

I would also recommend continuing down the evaluation path. It's a wee bit atypical (though certainly not unheard-of) for a child to be struggling with these issues at 5. If you can pinpoint an underlying reason (and this may involve a heroic amount of searching), you may also be able to pinpoint a solution.

I say all this as the mom of a child who's academically advanced but whose social development has been uneven at best, and at times mildly delayed. It's been a hard road, figuring out what's what, but it got much, much easier once I really told myself, "Okay, we're not on 100% typical developmental territory, here." That allowed me to accept that my son wouldn't always be a natural fit everywhere I put him, and to focus on his strengths and challenges in equal measure.

you're right, 5 year olds have good days and bad days, and schools should be mentally equipped to handle both. especially small private schools where the teacher isn't being overwhelmed by 30+ needy littles.
even the hitting incident isn't over the top. 5 year olds aren't always in control enough to use their words. sometimes they lose it.
but i'm with them in having to call you if he is really not able to calm down. the tantrums and hysteria that don't blow over are really not typical, and i'm not sure what the school SHOULD do short of calling you when he doesn't knock it off after a couple of minutes.
i don't think public schools will have anything better to offer.
it does sound exhausting- i'm so sorry! if the professionals don't have anything to offer (and it's great that he doesn't have any red flags) then you just have a really really high maintenance little fellow, and may have to resign yourself to intensive interventions for a couple of years while his emotional maturity catches up.
khairete
S.

Academic knowledge and emotional maturity, are 2 different things. And it has nothing to do with age.

Being in school, all of this is life lessons... for him.
And he will have to adjust.
And being this is life.... he cannot expect, that how he is handled at home, will be the same, as when he is at school. NOR can it be that way. School and home, is not, the same.
It just is.
And you cannot expect the Teacher of any grade level, to handle a child the same way at school, as they are at home.
Your son, will learn...even through difficulties.
Schools, no matter how big or small, cannot "customize" things for each... child.
And a child, will learn the hard way.
And all of it will impact his emotional growth and COPING skills.
All of these things, are learned.
A child also has to learn, that you the parent....also support the Teacher.... and the schools method of management.
Otherwise, a kid will learn that they don't have to listen or obey, at school nor to the Teacher.
I work at an Elementary school, and I see kids like this. They think they can act anyway they want, and that Mommy or Daddy will scold, the Teacher for anything 'wrong' they do.
Not saying this is you... but a child... NEEDS to learn, HOW to be in school and amongst others.... adult or children, and it has nothing to do with how academically smart they are or not.
This is about social and behavioral and emotional... development AND learning... proper COPING SKILLS.
Coping skills are taught.
Not intrinsic.

By this age, a child should know what "right" and "wrong" is.
If your son does not know this, he needs to be told. Not being told in a roundabout way.
When he does wrong or something mean or inappropriate, you need to say DIRECTLY "That was WRONG. That is NOT nice..." etc. Don't dance around it. He needs to know, literally.... not in flowery language... what wrong and right is. What nice and mean, is. What proper and improper is.

This is school.
And this is how it is.
And all throughout school, elementary, middle school, high school, college.... things will NOT be customized just for only 1 child. And there WILL be ALL types, of Teachers and ALL types of classmates. And a child needs ALSO to learn... how to adapt.
And with parental guidance, a child can learn this.
From this age onward.

My son is a June birthday, and at 5, we had a similar year in Kindergarten. The first several months were really, really hard. He was bored and would act out in class. He would not finish his work in class, not sit still, would through tantrums when he couldn't get his way. He's very strong willed, NOT ADHD, NOT sensory perception disorder - nothing wrong with him, just really hard 5 years old. The others in his class (11 other kids - still a manageable number) were either girls, and nearly all we a full year older than our son. It makes a HUGE difference.
Our school sent home a sticker on good days, and a note with specifics on bad days. We started rewarding good days with positive rewards - an extra book at bedtime, picking the breakfast the next day, etc. Once daily good days became more the norm, we changed the goal to 3 in a row. Then 5 in a row, and the reward got bigger - a lego treat, a special trip to a park, etc.
We never got any really good advice from our teachers, counselors, on how best to help him get through this adjustment to school. ...
However, this year, we're in first grade, and it is amazing what a difference those 3 months over the summer have made. We didn't do anything specific other than try to have a consistent routine with TONS of free play bookended with healthy snacks and lots of sleep. In 1st grade, our son is doing well with classroom work, rarely gets notes sent home.
I guess to summarize - my experience contrasts a lot with Gamma G's response. Hang in there, try to help your son understand the routine, the expectations, manage the transitions, take deep breaths to manage frustration. Pursue evaluation, but also give it a year's time. 5 years old for boys is a LOT different than 6 for boys. At least that's how it's been for us... :-)

hi mom2two...

sorry you are having to deal with this. Personally from what i have read from other mothers experiencing the same thing...i honestly think its the teacher who can not or will not deal with ANY child who has an attitude issue. It requires patience, a little extra time to help correct a child who act out.

my son is going through the same issue at school. His teacher is very passive, has patience but doesn't have the time to deal with my son as she has 18+ other children she teaches. I was recently told that teachers wont assist those in need who need a little more focus and attention, as there are 15+ other children who can and will follow direction. Basically, odd child out is left to defend for themselves.

A teacher who makes a difference treats all children equally and attends to each ones needs. i read a post from a teacher who brought her students together as a team to aide a student with a mental illness. This student has a behavior issue and would lash out towards others and say inappropriate things. This teacher helped this student by working with the other students by telling them to help this student out. Correct him when he says something inappropriate and teach him the correct way to speak. Show this student the proper way to interact with others. Amazingly this child changed drastically. This student shined and felt loved and appreciated. Cause others cared and wanted to help the student out.

If we had MORE teachers like this, our ADHD students would get the necessary help then be put on medication or put in the front of the class or even singled out in some cases.

My son's teacher rolls her eyes at my son, or sighs with frustration. My son feels this, see's it and reacts on it. Its truly sad to hear my son say " i don't want to go to school mommy, all i do is get in trouble." My son is outspoken, stubborn and LOVES to test the playing field. Something he has done for many years.

He is a challenge, but with focus, positive attitude and encouragement, my son shines on with drive, focus and determination. I seen it first hand at home when he can't sit still, gets aggressive, has a tantrum, etc. Its because I am willing to sit and take the necessary time to give him the tools to get back on track, get grounded and put his listening ears on.

Sorry but too many schools require kindergartners to act accordingly. These students are just fresh out of pre-school, if others first time in a school setting. Too much expectations of our kids at this age. I hear it WAY too much of this exact same problem. Makes me wonder what really is going on with our teachers/education and what is required of our children at the beginning stages of their education. At age 5, they are just starting to learn to work in large groups, less play time, no nap, homework, etc. That is A LOT for a 5yr old to mentally handle.

Out bursts, attitude, crying, lack of focus, etc....to me is understandable at this age and quiet frankly expected!!!! That's just my two cents. Feel there should be less expectations, learning of course, and play to learn too. Once a child reaches 1st grade, or even 2nd grade, then have higher expectations of a child's behavior in the classroom setting.

Work with your son at home. Encourage him, keep communication going and speak with him on his daily activities in school. Ask questions. I learned to never tell my son he is bad and he is a trouble maker. I tell him he is a wonderful child who is bright, loving, funny and VERY smart. He needs to focus on putting his listening ears on and make good decisions. If he needs help, he should not be afraid to ask for it. Then i have him do something i know he can do, to give him a boost in confidence, especially on days he is really down on himself.

Your son just needs a little more direction and work on staying focused. Also a little more work on how to treat others, how to ask for help when his situation (other kid hitting him, etc.) isn't working out to talk with an adult. Little things make a difference. Doctors are not in your childs head...its up to us parents to listen to our children. My son will always tell me "i want to listen, i just don't know how." Clearly my son is speaking out to me and i am doing all i can to help him.

Good luck!

This all sounds normal to me. My daughter went through a stage a little while back where she wouldn't take No for an answer. She was testing. I remained firm, and it passed quickly. There are some great books..one is called "i just don't like the sound of No." You may want to read that to him, as well as others from that series of books. But for me, my daughter spent a few weeks throwing tantrums, not accepting No, etc. It was hard, but I remained firmed.

He could be testing the teacher since the class is so small.