And So It Begins...

I would be extremely nervous to allow another 16 year old to drive my child long distance, especially at night. If he is a new driver, he probably shouldn't be driving a handful of other teens. It's not safe, nor smart to allow that-it doesn't matter how smart or gifted they are, they still can make impulsive decisions at that age, which could end very badly.

No way, I'm with YOU, and I'd strangle my husband too. No WAY, NO way, I'd even offer to DRIVE her myself.......

And everybody knows what a 'relaxed' mom I am! No way.

:(

In our house, if you ask one parent and they say no, then you ask the other one, whether they say yes or no you are in trouble. So I would wait until she gets home, explain why that was wrong, and ground her. Whether she was lying about the group or not, she was deliberately disobedient. My parents wouldnt have let me go to an away game like that unless we were on the bus or someone's parents were driving.

You should also spend the time until she gets home getting on the same page with your husband so you can present a united front.

Good luck!

When I was 15, my dad remedied this dilemma with this one rule... I can go anywhere I wanted ONLY if he drives me there and picks me up when it's over. That curtailed a lot of foolishness. I also didn't get to have a car until right before I started college. That really curtailed a lot of foolishness.

Don't know if that will help in your case, but it's an option.

You are not unreasonable. I agree with you 100% and for all the reasons you stated...and it has nothing to do with a group, necessarily...which probably was a lie. He's a new driver, with multiple accidents, driving on bad roads...out of town? Um, NO.

And just so you know, I "was" your daughter at that age...gifted straight A student, athlete, hard worker, etc...and probably more...and my first "real" boyfriend ruined my life, essentially. Started using drugs, etc...and although I still graduated at the top of my class, I didn't do what I had planned on doing. Now, I am married to that WONDERFUL man (same one!) and we've been sober for a very long time and have wonderful children...but still, just a thought. STICK TO YOUR GROUND, when it comes to rules. Please.

I'm with you. The issue now is not the football game, it is that she went to dad after you told her no. And dad told her yes knowing that you had said no. He should have at least conferred with you to find out why you said no before overriding you and, to be honest, he should have backed up your no no matter what the reason or lack of reason. Parents need to stick together and now allow the children to play them against each other. Yes, I would be fuming right now! Good luck when all get home!

I'm with Dawn that you and your husband need to talk and be clear about the rules. Dounds like there are some new situations coming up that you will need to be in agreement on. I like the one where if one parent says no, you get in trouble for asking the other. I'm going to use that one...

A recent study showed that it's a mark of respect for parents and their rules when kids argue. If they didn't respect their parents, they would simply lie and do what they want. Your daughter sounds like a good girl who is trying to meet your expectations, while still having some room to choose for herself. If you keep changing the goal line during play, she may at some point just shrug and tell you what she thinks will make you happy.

For the record, my mom didn't allow me or my younger sisters to date until we were 16. I don't really think it served any of us well. In my experience, it's probably better to "grow" into dating along with the boys in your age group. Starting as a "newbie" with a "more experienced man" was extremely awkward for me. I felt like I was trying to learn the unspoken rules to a game everybody else already understood, and was often uncertain or embarrassed. But I knew by the time I was 13 what my sexual morals were. I didn't need my mother's protection for the next 3 years to keep me a "good girl."

Yep she played you two like fiddles. Aren't the smart ones great? My two 13-year-olds are light night and day. One has the common sense of a toaster so he lies and sneaks but is too dopey to not mess up the details so he gets caught. And frankly, he doesn't have the planning ability to try anything really good. The other is very smart, good student, and methodical enough to carefully plan what she sneaks. She doesn't mess with us often, but when she does, it's usually something pretty major.

Honestly I hope you're in the car driving to the game right now to drag her home. She'll be mortified that you followed her there, and you'll be able to a) verify whether or not that's where she actually is and b) whether or not her friends are there too. Sounds awfully convenient that the "friends" materialized out of thin air. If I were you, I'd be in touch with the parents of the alleged friends to make sure that the group really was there. Because if friends are required, it's pretty tempting to have them cover for her while she's actually out alone with him.

Not to horrify you, but when I was her age I was also responsible and smart - A student, student council, drama, church youth group, had two jobs to pay part of my private school tuition and buy a car, etc. My parents also had a "no dating" rule but really, while they thought I was at the movies or a game or the mall with friends, I was screwing around in the back seat of my boyfriend's car. Even good girls are sneaky when their hearts and hormones get in the way.

And yep, your husband needs a wake up call. Show him these posts.

The simple fact is you said no...so she went to dad and basically conned him into saying yes. She may have met the criteria, but you still said NO.

I remember once my mom said no...I did it anyway...and she showed up and made me hold her hand the rest of the night in front of all my friends. You can bet when she would say no in the future I took no as the answer and dropped it.

I would be mad at your husband and your daughter. He should have backed you up, or atleast talked to you before agreeing to her going. Your daughter should be punished for going to her dad.
Personally, I would be showing up to the game tonight. Embarrasement is the best punishment :-)

If you said NO, dad should have backed you. The kid is playing both ends from the middle. I would ground her for a month or until the next game is OVER.

You know enough about the boy that he has been in accidents and has not had his license long. Do you know what he drives, what kind of insurance and have you met HIS parents and know their point of view?

You and dad need to have a good talk.

Blessings...

I think that you and your DH need to come to a better way to agree about when she goes out and with whom and that it needs to be discussed and agreed between you. What I would be most angry about was her going behind your back when you'd said NO. If my DH had already told my DD no, then I'd need to find out why before I said yes.

So maybe the punishment here needs to be for going to another parent after she didn't get the response she wanted. That's the behavior that I would focus on at this point. And make new rules for asking for the future. This going anyway and hanging up would make my blood boil.

Oh, and once when my sister was out with her boyfriend and lied about her plans, my mother showed up and took her home. She never did that again.

And if my SD changes her story and says different people are attending, we ask for names. And sometimes we call the parents to confirm. Not always...but sometimes we might call up and say, "So, the girls said they were going to x movie. Does your daughter need a ride home?"

We tell the kids they will never take more privileges than they can earn and their behavior is cumulative. If they mislead me one day, I'm less likely to approve another.

she played you both. i bet you don't let her get away with it again! you said no no no no, so she changed her story and "made it okay" when she asked dad. and he bought it, even knowing you had said no. he should have discussed it with you first. and i would have been asking for names of who they were going with. it happens...don't beat yourself up over it.

Apparently I'm the only one who agrees with your husband. She met your criteria. What was the point of having criteria if you're still going to say no? Kind of gives her the impression that you'll never say yes. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Yes some teens chose to have sex, and yes some teens are not responsible drivers. But some teens do chose to wait to have sex and some teens do drive safely even after they've been in accidents. Why are you selling your daughter short? Why do you assume she is incapable of making a smart decision? I always resented those who said, you know they're going to have sex so you might as well give them a condom. Um, thank you for thinking I can't make responsible decisions and assuming the worst of me. For the record, yes I dated and no I didn't have sex!

You are NOT being unreasonable for 2 reasons:

1.You have every right to protect your child (esp w/a new driver, at night
on curvy road).

2.Your husband totally went behind your back. What the heck was that?
Explain to your hubby you are trying to keep her safe & alive. Tell him a story or two of the teens that went out for an innocent night out because they drove over the cliff, were killed by drunk drivers or drank themselves and wrapped themselves around a tree or other car.

Tell him on your deathbed your wish will be that you were less strict not more strict keeping your kids alive.

Tell him to watch the news one night. Bad things happen to good people.
I now know why my parents were strict & seemed unreasonable. I thank heavens now.

Having said that, I'm sure she will be fine. After she gets home, the next day, have a short, to the point, using just a few words (about 10) to make your precise point: her safetly & well being are in your hands.

Wow, I think you and your husband need to discuss this dividing and conquering strategy that your daughter has discovered and is using. If he wants her to be able to disrespect you and your instructions to her, then he is on the right path for that. But, remind him that it works both ways. He cannot expect her to respect him if he isn't give her what she wants either. You are in for a huge battle if you two can't get on the same page. As for what you can do now, give it to your husband. Walk away from the issue and let him deal with it. Tell him that if he will override you without discussing it with you first, then that she should only go to him for permission for things, and keep you out of it. He has removed your input from it already. Her straight As, job, athletic pursuits have nothing to do with this. Also, I would probably be more concerned with all those kids in the car over the long drive than not. (I don't like them alone either!) I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. I would probably be worried and frustrated. Hopefully you and your husband can have a good talk and figure out the game plan before she gets home. You need to be able to address this well and unified when she gets home (or tomorrow).

Both you and hubby need to dump your "criteria of being in a group with guys and girls."

Those criteria might keep your kid from getting pregnant while out with the beau. But they probably increase her chances of getting killed while he's driving.

Think about it: Think about all the reports you see of kids killed in accidents with other teens driving. Around here, at least, those reports always seem to mention that three or four or more teens were in the car. More ways for the inexperienced driver to get distracted, right? More voices, more laughing, more requests to change the music, more -- sorry, we just ran into a light pole.

You need to get your husband on the same page and that page has to be NO driving anywhere with this kid who has already had accidents behind the wheel. In some states it's actually against the law for a kid of a certain age to have any passengers who are under another age -- usually it means younger teens cannot ride with kids who are 16 or 17 at the wheel. Check your state laws. Meanwhile, no matter what the laws say, you and your husband need sit down and read some back issues of your local newspapers for those articles about kids who drove kids and the ones who never made it home.

Oh, and your daughter played you both perfectly. She got one OK and went with it. You have to get your husband working with you, not against you. No should always trump yes when safety this basic is concerned. After you and hubby get yourselves on the same page, you need to present a united front to her about both your new rules AND the fact she cannot play one of you off against the other and ask for a different answer from the "other" parent when she does not like the first answer.

If it were me, I would go to the game and get her. She would be grounded for a while.

You need to have a talk with your husband about this. He undermined you and that's wrong! If he's going to be a dick about this, tell him that every time she asks you for something, you will refer her to him since your opinion is not needed. And stick to it.

Well sounds like you and your husband need to have a conversation tonight about how these things are going to go down in the future.

He gave her permission, so do not let her tear the 2 of you apart on this. Let him know what you thought the rules were and that you feel like she is manipulating the 2 of you.

Then listen to what he has to say about what he thinks the rules for going out should be.

She is a straight A student and has never had these experiences before.
She is testing you. She actually sounds very mature and responsible. Do not go overboard when you deal with her. Instead explain why you have your rules and where they came from. Then listen to what she has to say about calling her dad after you had already told her no.

The secret is to keep the conversations open. To listen to each other.

We have ideas about we are going to raise our children and what the rules are, but sometimes, we forget to explain why. She is a junior in high School, in 2 years at this time she will be away at college. She needs to have experience with taking responsibility with her choices. She needs to know the reasons for the rules and what the concerns are. She sounds so mature, maybe she can handle a few dates. This way you can monitor their activities.

Example. You are a junior but you are only 15.
I do not feel like we know this young man well enough.
I know he has had some accidents.
This game was out of town, If something happened, it would take us a long time to get to you.
The road is a bit difficult and even experienced drivers can have trouble driving it.

You get the idea..

The main thing is to remind her, the most important job for her right now is school work. If her grades start being affected by this friendship, it will cause you and your husband to have to limit the amount of time she can go out.

I am sending you strength.. Kind of nice to have a quiet evening aloe with your husband..

I say you and hubby need to have a serious talk about getting on the same page. This isn't fair as you're made out to look like the bad guy. The both of you need to figure out what the rules are and if there are exceptions. Sounds to me like the steadfast rule of being in a group wasn't okay in this situation, so maybe you need better definitions of what is okay and what's not. Also, suggest a talk with her. If she's mostly got her head on straight like you say, she's worth talking to about the situation. I say it is worth hearing her thoughts and not negotiating your rules, per se, but trying to help her understand your rules and helping yourself to understand why the rules are apparently hard for her to follow.

Good luck. I'm a far way from parenting a teenager, but I was one not so very long ago :) I met and started dating my husband when I was 15, almost 16. We didn't have any clear rules about dating - when I told my parents about him, they said they wanted him to come over to the house first and our first movie should be with other people. So, we did! After that, I was allowed to ride solo places with him (high school games and such) and have alone dates - but in exchange, he also had to spend a fair amount of time at our house so my parents were getting to know him as we went along as well.

I agree with everyone so far, especially Dawn. The fact that she called her dad after you said no is grounds for punishment. our oldest child is 2 1/2, and we already get on him for doing that. of course it is minor stuff like can he watch Mickey Mouse, and he does it right in front of the both of us, but still. It is dangerous and even if she did somehow manage to coral some other kids into coming, fact of the matter is, she was deceitful in how she went about things. I say 2 or 3 weekends of being grounded and at least 1 other privilage(sp?) taken away!

I think the focus here is she went behind your back to Daddy. My daughter does this and she's only 10. I nipped that in the bud! She hasn't done it in a long time.

I think maybe you need to revise your criteria. I think group dates are okay, but NOT getting in the car with a bunch of teenagers. She should have been allowed to go to the game provided she was driven by one of you. Group dates are okay when the teen is dropped off by a parent and picked up by one. Once they start getting into cars with just themselves, the trouble starts. And a carful of teens is probably MORE dangerous and distracting than just her and the guy!

Sounds like you and your husband need to have a discussion as well as your teen being grounded for going behind your back!

Also, ask her if it was worth it. Sometimes that's a very thought-provoking question.

My kids aren't there. Yet. (My oldest, son, just turned 13, so it won't be that long though).

However, we have had rules about asking the "other" parent after the first one has said "no" for YEARS. In fact, just today, my son called me on my cell (I wasn't home) to ask me IF he could ask his dad about downloading a game to his ipod that I had told him "no" about. He asked me if he could ask dad, and if dad said yes, would it be okay then... ? I said, "sure you can ask him. TELL him that I already said "no" and that if HE says it's okay with him, then it is ok with me." (it was a game I was not a fan of but not adamantly a "no" on). Anyway... we established the rule about going behind the back of the other parent a WAY long time ago.. If they do that (ask the other parent after one has said no, without letting the other parent "in" on it) then the answer is an automatic "no", no matter what the request. And if they do it and aren't found out until later... they would be in SO much trouble. And they know it. Haven't tested it... yet. But they know they are flirting with major consequences if they do that.
THAT is your issue...more than anything else.
Then, (you and dad) discuss some potential scenarios and figure out where you guys fall on the " is it ok" meter.

Oooh, my sons would know they would be in trouble if they went to their dad after I said no, especially after 4 times. That has to be something she knows from both of you that she can't do again. Also, from now on, you and her dad have to agree to check with each other first before answering her on something iffy like this.

Totally with you Mama! I just had my husband tell my 16 year old he could take his small BMW, instead of 'his' large suburban to a football game an hour away taking a 2 lane road. Just floors me!! Why would my husband be so dumb! He wasn't home and it all happened so fast I didn't have time to put up a fight!!

Very good idea on the family meeting, our family went through this stage this summer with our very talented, smart, beautiful daughter. But, what I learned from her was to listen to my "momma senses". Any time I get a feeling that something is going on that she isn't telling me, I am usually right. My husband is actually much more strict with her than I am, so his knee jerk reaction is always no. We both agreed to consider each situation separately and not have rules that have no gray area. She has been completely honest and actually chooses to stay home rather than go to parties or places where she knows we would flip out if (or when) we found out what was really going on. Trust is earned (I agree your daughter didn't earn any of that tonight!) but it is important to empower her have the choice to either do what she wants or what she has been taught to do by her parents. The scary part of your situation is the long drive with the inexperienced driver, I would've reacted exactly the way you did, except my car would've been at that game ready to drive her home and embarass her for lying. Best of luck to all of you!

I totally agree with you ... she screwed up when she went running to daddy. Now, if you knew she would have to pass the house or it was not a huge deal I would have said, please stop by the house before you go I have something for you when she called about the group. If the car was empty she stays in if it's full she stays in b/c in most states it's illegal for teens to drive other teens.
"You must not have more than one person in your vehicle with you, unless accompanied by a licensed driver at least age 21"
that was taken from this website ... http://www.dmv.org/tn-tennessee/teen-drivers.php