Am I Being an Ogre?

Let him go. So what if he spends the time getting drunk. It's not like it's his daily habit to do so. It's a vacation, not a life style.

You said OK and then you said NO. You are not being and Ogre. I would tell him that you prefer that he doesn't go, but the decision is up to him. The next time he asks about something like this, say, I don't want you to go......PERIOD! He already knows in his heart the reasons...and they are VALID reasons.

Blessings.....

Honestly, I would prefer he go to Reno with his friends for 2 days and drink himself silly rather than his friends coming to visit me and drinking themselves silly in front of my kids.

It sounds like the PERFECT solution to me.

You don't like his friends, don't like being around him or them while they're drinking and BS'ing, and don't want them (hubby or friends) around your kids while they're drinking.

So hubby is going to go out of town to meet up with them so it's not around you or the kids. That sounds brilliant! Too bad it could only happen once or twice a year, instead of once every month or two. It seems like a win/win for everyone.

What I don't understand, though, is why (if it's not a financial hardship), you'd say no? He can't drink or be with friends WITH you, and he can't WITHOUT you. In either case, you get mad. How does he ever win, if no matter what you're mad at him? Darned if he does, darned if he doesn't.

I would trust my husband - I am his wife - not his mother.

If he decides to go on a bender - it will be HIS head and stomach that hurts later....

If you trust your husband - no matter how much drinking is going on - it shouldn't be a problem....at least not in my book. Let them re-live the old days...they will find they aren't as wonderful as they thought - especially since age is catching up with them!

When they were visiting before - I would have NEVER gone and waited in the car with my kids while they had a round of beer - that's just wrong. period - in my book....your kids need to be exposed to this - why? because through this - they will see that everything should be done in moderation!!! They will see the stupid things people do when they get drunk...

and as to their behavior rubbing off on your husband? the only reason it does is because it sounds like you control the scene and he has to "behave" and be this person he really isn't to keep you happy...just because you are Christians doesn't mean you cannot live your life. God didn't put you here to be a stick in the mud....trust that your husband has morals and values and will not take his stuff out of his pants while he is there...so he gets drunk! SO WHAT?! he's with his FRIENDS!!! Come on - lighten up!

I will be blunt here - this will sound mean - but please know it is NOT meant to be mean - just blunt.....you need to be his PARTNER NOT HIS MOTHER - you said you almost divorced 4 years ago because he felt stifled...stop imposing YOUR morals and convictions on him and let him be a MAN instead of a kept man...you state that he doesn't drink because you don't? OH HELL girl - you wouldn't last one day with my husband!! He too likes the taste of beer - and has 3 yep THREE a night...he knows self-control...when he's had his 3rd one - he starts drinking lemon or raspberry seltzer water....I DO NOT control his drinking nor do I control his life...he is an adult and he can make his own big boy decisions...I don't drink - but occasionally - I think I've had ONE drink (and didn't finish it all) in 3 years....but I do NOT stop my husband from drinking..

Okay really? I'm a Christian and I drink. I am not sure what is going on but you need to take a deep breath. You are putting up a wall and that is not healthy. There is nothing wrong with getting together with friends and being stupid. He's not asking you to go and watch. If they want to relive the "glory years" why not? What is the real reason? Is it the drinking? Is it because you don't approve? You are very judgemental of his friends and their behavior. You don't know if they are alcoholics or they were just having fun on vacation.

I have gotten together with girlfriends only and let me tell you I don't ask my husband for permission! I let him know what the plans are but he would NEVER think to say "you didn't get my permission". Yeah, he's not my dad and I'm an adult. I have respect for my marriage and while I might have "fun" code word for drinking, I would never disrespect my husband nor my marriage.

I would mention to hubby that you are concerned about their activities and that you hope he uses good judgement while on the trip and that you hope he has a great time.

I agree with the one Mama who said you can't hold how you feel in because it will only cause resentment. With that being said, I firmly believe you need to get over yourself & accept the fact that your husband is your husband, not your child.

He is doing his best to please you by meetig you halfway. I don't go in for the whole "we're Christians so we don't drink" line btw, as being Christian and abstaining from drinking are NOT synonomous.

What you're really saying is that YOU have made a life choice & expect your husband to do the same. In the next breath you say that you realize you have been known to stifle him in the past which tells me this: You want your husband to do what you want him to do and be happy about it. That's never going to work out for you. Never. It's a hard lesson to learn, but it's true.

Your husband sounds like a good guy, works, stays home with you & the kids, follows rules that his wife (again, not his mother, but his wife) has set out for him, right? Cut the guy some slack & realize he wants a few beers with his buddies for crying out loud! He's even willing to go out of state so that you don't have to be present for it!

Yes, you are being an ogre-sorry. Just because YOU feel like this about drinking and having fun doesn't mean everyone else has to. While his friends do sound a little extreme on the partying end most of the people I know are actually more like THEM than YOU. People, myself included, enjoy a drink or two once in a while. And sometime more than two. Yep-it can be loads of fun to drink a lot once in a while. While it is not fun for you it is fun for us. And BTW-tons of Christians drink.
It sounds like your DH does enjoy a drink and to have fun. When he married you he was able to put that on the back burner out of love and respect for you and your views. That is commendable and more than many would do. So if he wants to hang out with his friends once a year to have fun and party I really think he should be able to without grief from you.

I would definitely let my husband go--in fact--I would encourage it. It's important for people to get out, get away from the kids, and blow off some steam. My husband and I both go to conferences once a year where we get to hang out with all our old grad school friends. My husband is the best father, the best guy ever--so it makes me happy to think he's enjoying himself and getting to cut loose a little. He drinks himself silly and does lots of other silly stuff--but he comes home and is the responsible, thoughtful, loving person he always is. Frankly, I do the same kind of stuff with my mom and sister (and I'm leaving him with our 4 year old and 1 year old to go to my sister's surprise engagement party in a month). I'm sure I'll be drunk, silly, and doing weird things and it will be lots and lots of fun. But, I will come home and continue to be a wonderful mom, wife, worker etc.

Honestly, it's one thing if you don't want them around your children--but this seems like a perfect solution. Just bank the time and then do something super fun for yourself with all your friends or family.

P.S. You can definitely drink everyday without being an alcoholic. My husband's family is from Boise and because of the large LDS population I think they have a strange attitude about alcohol--they are always worried about offending people by serving alcohol or people seeing them having a beer when we're getting pizza. I find it bizarre--I grew up Montana--and if people didn't have a full bar in their homes I always assumed it was because they were former-alcoholics. Many of my family friends come to visit and they drink precisely because they are on vacation. P.S. these are all religious (mostly Catholic) people--in fact--one of my mom's favorite drinking buddies is the priest. You might consider that you anxiety about alcohol is tied to the cultural attitude about it in the Boise area.

You hit the nail on the head: they are trying to "re-live the old days without anyone cramping their style." Can you blame them? They are not welcome to drink, play guitar and tell dirty jokes in your house (that' fine-it's your house) so they plan on doing it elsewhere, where such behavior is the norm. Let him go! Perhaps you could get a sitter once in a while and join in on the adult fun. You don't have to drink with them, but stop moping and join the conversation, music-making, and 'bad' language. you might actually crack a smile and have a good time! ANd I bet it would mean the world to your husband.

you ought to let him go. He'll actually hate it. He'll find it hard to keep up with the annoying drinkers, probably get hungover and wont be able to wait to get back home to normalcy.
My hubby went to a "football team" reunion about 10 years ago. He was on the fence about going because he knew the pressure (peer) would be on for them all to act like they were in highschool again. It wore him out. They didnt get into any trouble, he was glad to get home and had a few funny stories to share, and never answered any more of the letters for future getogethers with the guys.. lol.

CHeryl O said it best I think.

mI have to say my husband has been this controlling most of our marriage especially about me going to have any kind of fun with my friends and I truly resent him for it.

Do you really want to be "that wife"? The O. who holds onto her husband's balls until he "needs" them? LOL

Regardless of his friends, I trust my husband and would encourage him to go O. a trip like that. As a matter of fact--he takes a few golf trips every year--I have no problem with that.

This is about you & your husband and the trust between you & the respect you have for each other. Not the "other" guys, or Reno, etc.

this seems crazy, this kind of thinking leads people to divorce. If he wants to go and can figure out how to go money wise and time wise, he should be able to...J. because you're married doesnt make you in charge of the other person. If you were worried about things that could affect your marriage that would be diferent, but if he goes on a bender and comes back sober how does that affect you. Let him party for two days and relive his youth and when hes there send him texts abt how you can wait til he gets home to reconnect and do a date night that ends in "fun" Be a supportive wife and have fun with him....who wants to be married to their mom?

Gail - I would have said no too... there is no reason why a group of adult MARRIED men to have a frat party that lasts 2 days. For your husband to even ask to go would send red flags up in my mind... craaaazy and adulterous things happen when drunk men get together. Men are just stupidity in the flesh when there is more than 3 drunks together.

If he claims feeling 'stifled' again - I'd just give him the divorce, get the house and temporary alimony along with regular child support and move on. If you make good and decent choices and decisions, rather than getting hurt for wanting to make a bad choice - that's not being stifled - and you won't change his outlook.

ah, christianity, nothing is more tempting to a man ( or a woman for that matter) then telling them they shouldnt do something, or trying to tell them that their friend is a bad influence, at least from your perspective. this is not a question of whether you should "allow" him to go, it is after all, up to him, not anyone else whether he goes or not. if you really want to impress him and his buddies, encourage him to go to reno with his buddies, tell him go with your blessing, that way, he will be more inclined to police his own behavior, rather then going off with his friends to reno, and get snot faced drunk just because you didnt want him to go
K. h.

Absolutely I would let him go. Part of him is *still* that person who likes to hang out with his friends. He's obviously a good dad and dedicated husband to have given up (most) drinking for you in his REAL life. But he still has a need to let go sometimes. It sounds like you're usually around when you visit with these folks. Here's an opportunity for your husband to really enjoy his friends (in whatever form that takes) without worrying about your displeasure at seeing him with his friends, and as long as he doesn't plan on doing something illegal, I'd tell him "Go have a great time!" It's actually the perfect solution to your dilemma: he gets to see his friends, and you and your kids DON'T have to!

You have a very legitimate point! That is a terrible situation, and you need to protect your children and marriage. Actually, your husband needs to protect them.
You weren't wrong to speak your mind - it's healthy to do that in a marriage. But it would have been even healthier to do so by appealing to his leadership rather than taking the authority role. Rather than not "letting him go," (which indicates you are the leader) you can encourage him to step up and lead by expressing your fears and giving him room to lead. Say something like, "I feel really anxious about the kids being exposed to this behavior. Please protect our family!" I've heard of this attitude triggering the protective response in husbands.
I know that's not very politically correct, but it is Biblical. It may alleviate your husband's feelings of being stifled, too. I recommend Chip Ingram's book, "House or Home?" I heard him preach this series; it was really good!
God bless!
L.

You are both clearly not on the same page here and you need some sort of compromise.

The statement that got me was "letting" him go as in he has to ask permission. You are not his mom.

You don't own him and he does not own you. I've gone out of town with firends without hubby and I don't ask permission to go... I am not his child. He has done the same. Yes, of course we stay in close contact while on a trip.

We are very open and we communicate well so there is no need for "permission" to do things.

Figure out what really bothers you about the trip, communicate with him logically as a partner not a controller.

Your husband is an adult and should be the one to make this decision. It's too bad that you couldn't tell him in a calm and reasonable way how you feel about being around these friends. I suggest that anger is one way that we know where our boundaries are and you needed this anger to be able to express your boundaries.

I suggest that when they had visited before that you could've maintained your lifestyle by just saying no when they wanted to stop and drink and leave you in the car. You didn't say no then and you're saying no now.

Good for saying no now and I suggest that the intensity of your anger is the result of not saying no those many times that drinking happened earlier.

I suggest that you try to calmly talk with your husband about how you feel about the earlier incidents and your fears for the trip. And then let him make the decision of whether or not to go. Work on finding a way to be OK with whatever he decides.

Know that the trip to Reno is not putting you and the kids out in the car or an any other way forcing you to live their lifestyle. Of course, having him gone makes life more complicated for you. If you're going to resent his absence you need to be honest with yourself and him and let him know that is the price you both pay for him going. Then calmly discuss that angle of the trip.

I suggest that you can think of this trip as a bonus for him, a gift you can give him. We are able to choose how we feel. We help ourselves feel better by the things we say to ourselves. Continuing to dwell on the past definitely handicaps the present and the future. It might help for you to understand that you could've said no to being left in the car while they drink. I suggest the real issue are the past visits and not today's trip. It might help for you and your husband to talk about the past and put it behind you.

I can understand why you dislike his friends. It sounds as if they were a bit rude when they last visited. It sounds like your husband got carried away a bit. (Would it have really been that difficult to drop the kids off at home and then go out to the bars? (You guys could have picked them up if you were the driver after they were finished).). It also sounds like his friends have a bit of a party lifestyle. It appears that better choices could have been made all the way around. But here's the deal, laying down the law made you feel bad because you know that it's not what he wants. You know you are being manipulative - telling him yes and then changing your mind. He is an adult, who is capable of making his own choices and dealing with the consequences of his choices. If he has remained friends with these people all these years, that won't change. This sounds like the perfect compromise. He gets time with his friends while you and your children aren't subjected to their antics. And trust me, throwing golf or fishing into the mix, does not curtail the partying....think coolers and cart girls. Let him go and let his hair down, have a night of debauchery. Don't grill him about he events or make him feel bad for having fun. You and the kids plan something special just for you while he's out reliving his glory days. GL!

I would let my husband go, and the only reason I would get upset is that I couldn't go too. My goodness, he is an adult and should be able to handle "peer pressure" by now. I agree that it is not around you and your family so two days is nothing to worry about.

*Riley, you seem to have a lot a good advice- keep it up!

I am torn on this one. If they are going to reno to gamble and drink, I wouldn't be all that comfortable with it. You obviously are very against any kind of drinking, but it sounds like you husband isn't. He doesn't drink because of you, and you said you almost divorced 4 years ago because he felt stifled. I think you need to take this all into account and maybe allow your husband his weekend of reliving his teenaged years. Yes you don't approve, but you won't be there to have to watch it or deal with it. He goes get's it all out of his system and in reality it doesn't affect your family except that you will be alone with the kids for a weekend. If you can, you could either request that you get a weekend with your friends also, or you and he do something special that You like to do (that normally he wouldn't want to). that way it feels "even."
I think in his way your husband's bf IS trying to think of your family and it's life style by not coming there to visit and thus subjecting yourself and kids to all that drinking.

I can understand a man wanting to relive his glory days somewhat, but the more you talked about them doing this in front of your kids and your oldest speaking out about how distasteful this is, I don't think you are wrong at all and think your husband needs to grow up and really think about what his kids have seen.

I agree with the other comments about him not needing "permission".

On the other hand, I would say he should not go out of respect for you. Have you two tried talking about this openly and honestly? Obviously, do it logically and with respect. Most men do not respond well to manipulation or emotional outbursts.

While we are not our spouse's parents you have a right to be concerned because of the negative influence these people have on you. This does not sound like a healthy scenario. Your husband if as responsible as you say he is should understand where you are coming from.

Also, I think drinking and enjoying alcohol within reason is fine but it sounds like these people are irresponsible.

Don't feel like you are being an ogre. Your fears are correct, regardless of how good a person your husband is. Bad influences rub off on even the best of character (as evidenced by your 2009 rodeo story). My favorite quote by Benjamin Franklin is, "He who lies down with dogs will rise up with fleas." Since the Bible carries a little more weight than Ben... Proverbs 13:20 advises similarly, "Whoever walks with the wise will become wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm."

However, you also said you almost divorced because he felt stifled. It is SO hard to find that middle ground of giving good advice/stating your concerns (which I THINK we wives have every right to do) without actually nagging (which I have been very guilty of doing on many an occassion myself). So here's my favorite Proverb for that...
Proverbs 21:9 says, "It is better to live in the corner of a housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife."
The advice I keep hearing in sermons is for wives to live a life pleasing to God and our husbands will learn from our examples (as opposed to from our "nagging"). No one responds well to nagging and it just doesn't work. I find my husband responds much better if I calmly express my concerns and then give him time (as in days) to think about it. He almost always comes around to my way of thinking if I approach it that way. If I get forceful or nag, it never works.

That said, you do have your kids to be concerned about as well. SO, I would calmly tell him one time, since he asked, that you are concerned because of what happened after the rodeo and that his children watch and learn from everything he does. You might even ask him what he is going to tell the kids when they ask what he did on his trip. Then, I would leave it alone and hope he chooses well. I also would apologize for flipping out on him and explain that you got mad because you don't like being put in that position of telling him "no", especially when he probably already knows how you would respond, but that you shouldn't have yelled at him. Maybe he asked you because he wanted you to be the heavy. Maybe he wasn't "strong enough" to say no himslef and wanted you to do it for him (You know, "My wife won't let me.") It's not exactly fair to you to be put in that position, but at least it would mean he knew it was a bad idea and didn't really want to do it to begin with. I would also tell him that you would prefer for yourself and your kids not to spend time with this best friend anymore, explaining that it is not the type of behavior you want your children emulating and that it makes you uncomfortable.

Good luck. Oh, and don't forget to pray about it first. (I always forget to pray about first and then remember after it's too late.)

My husband and I also almost divorced a few years ago, partially for the very same reason as you. When we got back together, I was so afraid of being an ogre that I let him do whatever he wanted and I didn't say anything. I ended up resenting him after holding in my anger for so long, and that was not good!

We have to be able to tell our husbands how we feel without feeling bad about it. I honestly don't know if I would support my husband going or not (probably not), but I would be honest with him about how I felt about it, and let him make his own decision. I would probably put my foot down about that behavior happening in front of my kids, though. You have every right to do that! :-)

I don't blame you for being upset . . . I would be too.

I'm not sure what to suggest that you do - just praying that God gives you some wisdom on this issue.

The only reason I'd be annoyed with my husband going on a trip like this was if my kids were really little so I was going to have to work extra hard all weekend while he partied AND he did it often while I never got the chance. But your kids are older so it doesn't seem like you're upset about him going bc of extra work for you and it's always being unbalanced like that. So if I was in your shoes, I'd ENCOURAGE my husband to go. I love seeing my husband go out with old friends and have fun. If your husband works hard and is a good father and husband and would have fun, why begrudge him that? Having fun is one of the most important things in life. Letting loose for a weekend will make him a happier person which is good for your whole family. Maybe his friends are jerks etc but he's not asking you to put up with them so it shouldn't matter to you what he's doing while he's gone. And I'd bet money that he'll come back so done with that scene for a long time and happy to see you guys. I also agree with other posters that not drinking isn't synonymous with Christian.

do you trust him?

because honestly, allowing him to do this AWAY from you and the kids sounds like a really generous, fun treat for him. you already don't want his friends in your home. as long as you trust him to be faithful (and i assume, not hurt anyone or get arrested) i don't see the issue. if there is a question about his fidelity well then.....

I guess the missing part of the question is:

How is he as a husband and father the other 95% of the time, when the friends are not around? If he's a good dad and husband most of the time, I'd be inclined to be ok with it. Are you concerned about other things happening while they are drunk in Reno (i.e. other women, other substances, or whatever else?)

Would he like there to be more drinking and partying in his day to day life, or is he content to have these little 'beer holidays' from time to time?

Does he feel a sense of responsibility for contributing to his alcoholic friend's continuing alcoholism?

And lastly...is this Reno, CA or Reno, Nevada? I'd be a lot more worried about Reno, Nevada.

No absoloutely not! You are not being an ogre and no I would not let my housband go. I wouldnt feel bad about it either. Cause the whole time he's up there I'd be wandering. I know that there is supposed to be trust in a marriage but according to all this, you have your reasons.

You did the right thing.
I have alcoholics in the family - I see no point in hanging out with addicts regardless of whatever they are addicted to.
You are not the 'heavy' - you are the grown up and some of these friends of your husbands will never grow up - they will die while in their bingeing alcoholic pattern - hopefully alone and not in a car on the road where they might take someone else out with them.
When my husband went to collage, he had some friends who partied weekends on a fairly regular basis.
The thing is - after awhile it got boring.
You get drunk, you might not remember all the details of what you did (or with whom), you might barf offerings to the porcelain god (toilet), you wake up eventually with a headache that pounds you for the rest of the weekend and most thoughts of food make you want to barf till it's the dry heaves.
They got sick and tired of feeling sick and tired - and it's all self inflicted.
How much 'fun' IS that?
Plus the booze is expensive.
Your biggest problem is your husband Wants to be part of this, at least some of the time.
Try to cultivate other (sober) friends whom your husband enjoys/respects.
If he's in a group who resists this behavior and he cares what they think, he'll be able to resist better himself.
It wouldn't hurt for you both to attend some Al-anon meetings.

I understand your frustration with the best friend and the wife, but really your anger should be toward your husband. These people wnat to do what they want on their vacation and that is their perogative. Your husband should be the one to do what he feels best for himself and his family.

With that said, I do like to get together with my friends and have some drinks - with or without kids. We don't get stupid drunk, but we have a good time and I think that is totally fine. But, it would never cross my mind to leave my family in the car while I went into a bar for a drink. That is rude and ridiculous that you even put up with that.

If I were you, I would tell my husband to go, have a good time by himself and be safe. If they are truly going to just sit in a hotel room and drink, there is no reason for you and the kids to go.