I took my eldest son to the doctor yesterday because he wasn't feeling well. My youngest was there with us. We had to wait for the doctor 30 minutes in the examination room. The doctor arrived and examined my son and entered info into his computer. I was asking my boys' to settle down, stop talking, stop playing and they weren't exactly responding. The doctor asked my eldest son to listen to me. Then my son had to go to the bathroom. When he was out of the room, he said my eldest seem to lack the ability to follow "social cues". Doc said my youngest son "feeds" off big bro's social cues but li'l bro social cues seem to be much more normal.
Doc wants me to have eldest tested for "Aspergers Syndrome".
I have been thinking about this. When I take my youngest son out, by himself, his behavior is so much different than when he is with big bro. But when I take big bro out by himself, his behavior doesn't seem to mellow much.
I'm a bit stressed now.
Well, what to do now and where do we go from here?
@Laurie: Doc provided a referral but the referred psychologist accepts no insurance. That is part of the conundrum.
@Rosebud: He was basically suggesting that the "directives" and "subsequent disciplinary techniques" were ineffective because of the "possible Aspergers diagnosis". I am now reviewing his life in my mind thinking about this and trying to make sense of it all.
My inference is that my youngest can follow the directives because he has the ability to follow social cues, but my youngest misbehaves, because he "feeds off of my oldest son".
@Dawn B: Nope, he has only been my son's doctor for a few visits. He is a very prominent doctor and a lead physician. I honestly don't believe that another doctor would have "caught it" which may be a good thing because perhaps it is very mild, if indeed a diagnosis is obtained. But the doc's field of expertise is often on behavior..as opposed to some pediatricians that have an off specialty of pediatric nutrition, per se.
Aww, Diana, I am sorry that you are having to deal with this, but don't be afraid to have him evaluated. Aspergers is not a terrible condition to live with, but it is quite helpful for the parents to know what they are dealing with and to be able to have some tools available to them. I'd go ahead and have him tested.
Call the doctors office back and ask them for a referral. That way your insurance is more likely to cover the cost.
It is always good to have as much information as possible.. Could be their is no Aspergers, but if there is, it will give you a path you can follow to help your son.
Hi - I just went back and read the original question about going into the stores etc. And I first want to respond to many of the people who responded to you that your kids are out of control:
I am a parent of a child on the spectrum who does lack social cues and outtings are hard, hearing feedback to 'control your child' is heartbreaking, please stop judging harshly people you do not know because there is a possibility of an underlying cause that you do not know about.
My son is not quite 5. He's extremely hyper active and seems none of the discipline techniques worked - I've studied Dr. Brazelton, Supernanny, 1-2-3 Magic, etc, etc. etc, and was so frustrated when after months NONE of this advice worked!!!!!!!!
Reminders, removing from the situation, behavior charts - those have helped however I have had to accept that at least for now outtings with my nearly 5 and nearly 2 year old are few and far between. I can handle one but not both typically. As my son has gotten a little older things have gotten better but he does lack the social cues understanding and will pick and pick and pick at someone not knowing he's pushing someones buttons and doesn't seem to understand until a major reaction is given - physically removing from the situation, removing someone else from the situation (and I mean, picking him up and setting him somewhere else - not just telling him to move).
Guess my point is - I understand. If, If, IF it is aspergers - a thick skin is necessary for the judgement you will receive - I'm still working on that.
Just based on descriptions of your boys' behavior, I would not necessarily think your eldest has Aspergers. Lots of kids who aren't particularly disciplined would act like your sons.
However, there may have been some other component your doctor thought he saw. So it can't hurt to have him tested. Doesn't your doctor have any suggestions, since he's the one who brought it up?
p.s. I know some wonderful boys who've been diagnosed with Aspergers.
What you do is smile, you have someone who is looking out for you. Your pedi sees something that he feels needs to be looked into, look into it. When you have something going on that is out of the 'norm' it's best to know what is going on and create a gameplan and move forward with the plan that is created. Have an active roll in all of it, educate yourself and write it all down.
Has this doctor seen your older boy before and brought up things prior to this visit? If so, I certainly would have him evaluated. It won't hurt. I know we moms want to do what is best for our kids. Hang in there and it certainly would help and possibly create more peace and cooperation with your boys when you are out with them If he has Asperger's then you'll be given tools on how to cope and manage. Sorry you are going through this right now. I have two boys myself and they are quite the rowdy bunch so it can be hard to decipher what is normal and what isn't. Go with your instinct. Best wishes.
Our son has ADHD, which is basically a cousin to Asperger's and Autism. I want to tell you not to be afraid of any of this process.
There are plenty of psychiatrists or other specialists who can conduct an evaluation that will accept insurance. Don't give up. Go back to your pediatrician and mention the problem and ask for another referral.
You don't know for sure it's Asperger's yet. It's great your pediatrician is suggesting an evaluation by a specialist to confirm. Meeting with a specialist is beyond just getting a diagnosis (if one is even needed); it's about getting access to resources to help your child lead the best possible life. You can make life-changing, wonderful changes in your son's behavior.
Things definitely turned around tremendously for our son once we got the ADHD diagnosis and treatment. The medical community really is on top of care for these types of conditions and can make a "wow!" difference.
Best of luck! I hope you get some answers and solutions soon.
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Get him checked then you would at least have an idea of what the souce of his behavior troubles come from and learn the strategies and disciplines necessary to help him work through his condition as well as deal with school and life.
Be encouraged, it isn't the end of the world but the beginning of learning some things you both never knew or experienced before. It can be a very good thing for both of you. Keep us momma's posted.
Ditto Laurie but a couple of questions...
How old are your boys?
And what have been the consequences (parental rules) thus far for not listening to you in public and private settings? All parents have to bring siblings along to Dr.'s appts. and all parents have to contend with the one not getting the immediate MD attention...Waiting is just plain hard on little ones, especially rambunctious boys.
So don't feel you or your family has been labeled in anyway yet.....just call for a referral, follow through, get the info...but keep disciplining with love and logic.
Deep breath--thinking of this as an opportunity to learn about and understand your son better.
Call your doctor back and ask him to give you another referral to a different doc. Tell him that you want to do the right thing and get him checked, but can't afford to go unless it's covered by insurance.
Also, maybe it's worthwhile to contact Early Intervention in AZ & find out if they have free programs/evaluations:
Arizona Early Intervention Program, Dept. of Economic Security
Molly Bright
Part C Coordinator & Exec. Director
Phoenix, Arizona 85012
Phone: ###-###-####
Fax: ###-###-####
____@____.com
www.azdes.gov/azeip/
Ditto Laurie A.
You will never know, unless you get your son checked up.
And yes, younger siblings do often, feed off of the older sibling and the dynamics there.
As I understand it, Aspergers is considered to be in the Autism spectrum along with ADHD, have you checked in to Autism sites like AUTISM Speaks? You might be able to find resources for doctors there.
I agree with Monica, check with the Melmed Center. We went there for my daughter about 4-5 years ago when we were trying to find answers to her issues. She ended up being diagnosed with Autism. Our insurance did not cover the psychological evaluation, but I believe they do accept insurance. They worked with us on the fee, lowered it to the uninsured rate and allowed us to make payments to them. They also offer a lot of classes and support type groups to help you and your child. At the time we lived in Yuma, and now in Prescott Valley, so we have not been able to go to any of the classes they offer. But they are great and are worth the money. Not only that, but with the diagnosis the school is able to offer extra services to my daughter to help her with social issues, speech, staying at grade level, and they have provided a one on one aide to assist her all day long. The sooner a diagnosis is made, the earlier the interventions can start, and the better off your child will be. Yes, it can be a scary process and the thought of your child being labeled is a little hard to handle. But in the long run, your child will benefit from having a diagnosis sooner rather than later because the problems can be addressed before forming into hard to change habits.
I am curious to find out if your sons school has had any issues with his behavior. If so, they can do testing in school to see if he falls under any of the categories where the school district can offer support in school for him.
I am not saying that your child has any disorder. But the fact that the doctor said something is worth checking out.
How old are your kids? Did he ask any other questions about your son? This sounds a lot like my 2 boys at the doctor's office when they were younger. My son was even evaluated for Asperger's (at the school's request) and he was not on the spectrum.
If he's at least 3 years old, you can have your local school district evaluate him and it would be free.
If the referral is to the Melmed center in Paradise Valley, it may be worth the money to go see them for the testing and submit to your insurance company afterwards. My son is ADHD and "classic" gifted in that he is super smart but misses the social cues that we seem to know after pre-K, Kinder, and such. He attends a group program there that teaches him these cues and how to handle emotions, bullies, and communicating effectively. It is worth the money to me (not sure if insurance is going to reimburse yet) to know that he is improving significantly after three sessions. Other moms who have children on the spectrum tell me that they are amazing when it comes to testing and treatment. Learn all you can. A diagnosis doesn't mean the end of the world but will let you know how you can help your son be successful in school and the rest of the world. They will also help you manage his behavior and that will be less stressful for you and your younger son. Good luck!
Many children with Aspbergers, autism, and/or ADD/ADHD will see an improvement in symptoms with a change (improvement) in diet. **LOTS** of mothers of these children will testify that when they do things like get rid of artificial colorings and flavorings, that the children get a lot better; some go gluten-free and/or casein-free (a protein in milk); some need to go on a whole foods diet with nothing artificial. Although the current medical thinking is that these things are just mental and the kids need a psychologist, it has never been shown that there is not a physical link/connection. You remember the old saying, "you are what you eat"? Well, some kids' brains don't seem to be able to handle a lot of the additives that are in most packaged foods these days, but they thrive on diets of "real" foods like fruits, vegetables, meats, and minimally-processed grains and other foods. Worth a shot, imo!
