Advice for a Good Friend

I really agree! If you stay home then rules come with the territory and if not then get out if you are such a grown up, a little 'tude is to be expected but respect is CRUCIAl!

I think there are a couple of things going on here. The 19 yr old is probably not acting responsible b/c at no time before this has she ever had to be! So while I agree with previous posts that tough love is in order here, I think it would be a disaster just to kick the kid out of the house. I think it's time for the mom to recruit some professional help. She needs to have someone show her how to say what she means and actually enforce it (the hard part). But the 19 year old also needs education on how the real world works (how to rent an apartment, the importance of good credit, etc) from a neutral third party. At this point, if you send this clueless, fledgling adult into the real world with no support, she's only going to screw up more. The idea is to teach the 19 year old that each "adult freedom" she craves comes with responsibilities.

I would believe the best thing to do would be to tell her she needs to move out she has one month to find a job. If she doesn't find a job then she needs to be kicked out. Sometimes kids need tough love and thats what it will take. If she is not trying to find a job and still getting attitude the first to weeks then she needs to leave. When i weas that age i did the same thing and my mom kicked me out when i was 19. After she kicked me out i had to get my stuff together i had no choice. I believe that was the best thing my mother did. I thought i would never talk to my mom again but now we are best friends.

My rules are that you can stay home if you are taking full credits at college and must be able to pay for their own car expenses ie insurance and gas. The rules are the same as when they are under 18 with a 12 curfew and no friends over when we arent home as well as the same chores. Our jobs as parents is to teach them to fly out into the world. They can move out and try their wings knowing the door is open to them if they need to get on their feet not just because they don't want to work. Life is tough and they will encounter rules their entire lives so we can't sugar coat life for them.

Ah...do I 100% understand your friends position. I've been there with my oldest who just wanted to do what he wanted to do. I was a single mom and struggling terribly financially - he wouldn't work steadily, wouldn't help around the house, gave the attitude, etc. I let him treat me this way for almost 3 yrs. I was too afraid to throw him out. Nothing I said or did made a difference. We'd talk, he'd cry about how miserable his life was, etc...it became routine. I finally realized I wasn't helping him at all.

So - as a mom who has been there done that, here is my advice:

TOUGH LOVE. Throw her out. Sit the daughter down and don't lecture: Tell her the way it will be - absolutely NO discussion about it. This is the way it is - deal with it. She has one month to change her attitude, get a job, contribute to the household (rent - $400 mo <includes utilities> plus food expenses - this is really to help pay that 6K back) and follow house rules (making sure that the house rules treat her like a responsible adult roommate rather than a child). If she can - and does it willingly - she can stay. IF she doesn't: She's out. No money help from mom - no help of any kind. Tell her to pack her bags (or pack them for her) and get out. The daughter has friends she can stay with and she will be fine. She will figure out quite quickly what needs to be done to survive on her own.

Now, here is the kicker. I treated my son like a responsible adult roommate. I didn't give him a curfew, I didn't tell him when he had to be home, etc - he was an adult. Just as your friends daughter is an adult - she MUST be treated like one. This shows her respect and she will either return the favor or not. You can't expect any adult to appreciate being treated like a child. Treat her like a responsible roommate and lay down the boundaries. As roommate we will work together to: Pay the rent, buy the food, keep the house clean, etc. If you don't have a job and don't carry your share of the weight around here - out you go. No parties - period: My house, my boundaries. If her daughter doesn't want to go to school - fine. Her choice - BUT she MUST pay her way at home. Period. Mom can choose to reduce the rent if daughter goes to school full time.

The bottom line here is in order to expect our children to act like adults and be responsible we must teach them how, then expect them to and then treat them as adults. My son got a job, is living on his own now. Apparently doing alright. He is mad at me still (it's been a couple years) and doesn't talk to me much but I know I did the best thing for him. It was hard - still is...nearly impossible to do tough love. But you won't help your kids if you let them mooch off of you and treat you with disrespect...

I wish her luck...she can call me if she wants...I get it oh so well...

Warmly,
J.
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First off, I'd love to hear about Kitchen table play and learn....tell me about it.

Second off, I am a little strict when it comes to this, however my boys are both YOUNG so please call me later to see if I'm able to enforce what I'm saying now.
1- She needs to enforce the rules that her daughter needs to follow in order to live in her home. Plain and simple, if she doesn't, her daughter will run over her day and night...sounds like she already is.
2- when I moved out at 18, my mom made a point to help me get back and forth to work when she could, always made sure she bought me a bus pass a month since she wasn't always able to pick me up, but I couldn't use the excuse that I couldn't get to work (smart lady) and she gave me a $100 every two weeks for grocerys(well she took me, didn't actually give me the money). The rest was left up to me. It worked out really well, for both of us. She got to see me 2-3 times a week when she would give me rides and we went grocery shopping together, and I never had the real desire to go home....but knew I had a support system there in case I had any trouble.

Hope that helps
K.

Dear A.,

Your dear friend’s daughter is not a teen with a “tude”, she is an “adult vandal” with accomplices. $6K worth of damage to one’s parents home speaks more then simple “disrespect”, it basically says, don’t get in my way or I will destroy you too…you owe me!

Staying home – should not be an option. How long ago was this destructive party held? Has a police report been filed? If not. Why? Name the names including the daughter’s name.

Moving out – her bags and cloths should be on the drive way and locks should be changed immediately. She obviously has no respect for her mother. Let her stay with her wonderful friends and expect them to support her lazy ways…So what if she drops out of school and has to actually find a job and place of her own? Maybe, she will think twice before she has her next party.

Lastly, this will hurt your friend more then her adult child…but in the long run, if the girl is worth a dime, she will get her act together and apologize to her mother. If she doesn’t, then would the continuous bad behavior and pain do your friend any good? She is a human being not a doormat. Love her, support her and help her grow a backbone.

Blessings…..

It matter less what she decides to set down as rules and consequences as whether she is ABLE and WILLING to enforce the rules and institute the consequences. We all know that rules are just words, but if you don't follow through with the consequences, then the rules mean nothing.

Rules in our house: everyone pulls their weight re: picking up after themselves, pitching in to empty dishwasher, clear/clean up after dinner, etc. They do their own laundry (one day has been chose by each to be "their" day).

Both have part-time jobs because we don't pay for their extras, only groceries and utilities. The most important rule is: go to school with decent grades(locally) and we pay either tuition OR books, cover car insurance, etc. Don't go to school and you pay rent (really hard for them to come to terms with paying rent on a room they've lived in all their lives).

One daughter works almost 30 hours a week, goes to school fulltime and coaches JV softball each spring.

One daughter tried the "I'm not going to school" route --- ended up moving out because she couldn't stand to pay rent for "her" room. That lasted less than 6 months because it's hard to pay for everything when you only work part-time. She is now back at school fulltime and living at home.

It was very difficult to evict our daughter when she refused to go to school and stopped paying us rent, but it was the best lesson she ever learned. It wouldn't have been fair to her OR her sister if we hadn't enforced the rules. Now both of them know how hard it is to be on their own and that they need to be well-prepared in order to do that.

The hard part is sticking with delivering the consequences.

Wow! Your friend definitely needs to lay down some rules! First, as for the move, initially I would have said tell her to offer to pay the security deposit BUT since she did so much damage to her mother's house, I wouldn't offer that. I would definitely tell her she has to move, give her a date, and then leave her on her own. She kind of ruined the financial help deal with all the damages I'm sure her mother has to pay for. I would tell her that any funds that would have been offered for assistance are now going to pay for the repairs to the house. Moving would be a directive, not a suggestion. I would also lay down some rules for the time in between like no friends over. She's already shown that she is not responsible enough to entertain so there would no longer be any friends welcome to the house. If she choose to get another job, fine. After all, she's moving so it will be her who suffers the consequences. And as to the move, I would give her a date, help her pack and when moving time comes, I would load the stuff in the car and ask her where to drop it off. I do know what I'm talking about - I had to do that with my daughter and ended up leaving her and her suitcase on a street corner. It was tough, but she managed to figure it out and she's been alot more respectful of me and my property ever since! There is no substitute for tough love and it sounds like this child is in desperate need!

My parents always said they make the rules and if we don't like it, leave. I agree with that. Here's a thought... have her take her daughter to small claims court to pay for the damage. If I were her, I would give my daughter a certain amount of time to find a job... say a month... but she has to follow the rules. I would tell her after she is at her job a month, she had best be out. If she can't afford to rent an apt, then how about a room somewhere else. Her mom could check the place out first. If her daughter is to stay, then she needs to get a job and follow the rules. Good luck!

Many wonderful suggestions here - Your friend may want to give her daughter one more chance and I can see that, but only after she has made it clear that her daughter must pay for the damages AND follow reasonable adult rules as outlined by other. If the daughter doesn't want to do this, then out she goes. The hardest thing I've ever had to do was kick my 19 year old daughter out after numerous parties, finding drugs, weird friends coming over, money going missing, totaling the car I gave her and damaging the rental car we got - basically a total lack of respect for herself or her family. It was made doubly hard by the fact that she has a severe case of Lupus. I told her I would only pay for her medication and doctor visit copays. I had the locks changed the day she left. I politely hung up when she would call and berate me. It took about a year, but she finally stopped acting like the victim, she had found a job, and she would actually call and talk like a normal person.

Most young adults can make it on their own (with the help of friends), but we do them no favors by continuing to enable them. Most parents fear their kids won't love them anymore, but I think that is just our fear, not the reality.

My advice to you is don't give your friend advice unless she specifically asked for it.

who's paying for school? the "child" should be completely cut off from any monetary support until she agrees to her mother's rules. she is a woman now and needs to take responsibility for herself and her actions. i recommend she move out as soon as possible, and until then she needs to count her blessings and have some gratitude towards the woman who is raising her, housing her, and probably sending her to school. her mom could suggest these options:

1. stay in the house with mom, pay rent, sign a lease and agree to specific rules of behavior.

or

2. move out, pay rent to someone else, and do whatever the hell she pleases with her newfound independence

good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Hi A.,
I am a family therapist and I specialize in teens and their families, and here's my 2 cents worth. Your friend needs to start setting some limits now. Her daughter is an adult, and won't act like one until she's treated like one, which means, taking care of her own mistakes. A deal should be worked out on how she's going to pay her mom back (including some not-too-punitive interest). Then some rules should be laid out, with the understanding that if she can't follow them, she's out of the house. It's harsh, I know, but this kid has got to grow up, and sooner would be better than later.

Wow...

She's 19 and "grown". Too grown for mom's rules and has no respect for mom. Moving out is not the word - put her out! She wants to learn the hard way so put her out there to see that it's not as hard at mom's house as she thinks. The rules of the world are tougher. One thing I know is that my child will respect me in my own home. I love you, but I don't have to deal with you and your disrespectful ways especially since you are now of age where you are responsible for yourself. If the mother doesn't stand for something she'll fall for anything. She's showing her daughter that she'll fall for anything which is why she's being treated like that sticky stuff on the bottom of her daughter's shoes.

I have never been disrespectful to my parents and have never given it a thought. Mainly because the Bible says "honor thy mother and thy father", but also because I know they'll knock me into next week -- even in my mid 30s.

Moving out: Considering the 6k in damage, the mom shouldn't agree to cover any expenses. If the mom has to cover expenses than the daughter is not ready to move out and be on her own. Does moving out require the mom to be a co-signer on a lease? If so, I don't think that's a good idea. The daughter didn't give it a second thought about damaging the mom's house. She'll likely look at having her own place as "complete freedom" and run wild. She'll create more financial problems for her mother if anything. If her daughter does not take responsibility for herself then she will always look for an easy way out and will want to come back home.

Staying home: Yes, there should be specific rules, chores, a curfew, she needs a job and she should pay some rent. This will prepare her for being on her own. And, if she can't check her attitude at the door she need not enter. Plain and simple.

Hi A. -

Your friend is doing a big disservice to her daughter by enabling such dysfunction. She is teaching her daughter to disrespect others, to not be responsible and to never grow up. And your friend is thinking she is being 'compassionate' by allowing these behaviors to continue - nothing could be further from the truth.

She needs to kick her out of the house. Period. And then she needs to send her a bill with a payment plan for the $6K in damage that she caused to her mother's house. If the daughter drops out of school, that is the daughter's choice - not the mother's - the daughter is 19 and can choose her own life.

IF your friend somehow allows her daughter to stay home, then there needs to be substantial rent (charge more than the going rate, so that there is incentive to move out), and adherence to all rules - otherwise she moves out.
Rules should include household chores, being a full time student, basic civility.

Tell your friend good luck - and to stand up for herself-!

The daughter needs to get a job so that the mother can feel o.k. about telling her she has to shape up or ship out. Admittedly, this would be hard to do if your child didn't have a source of income.

If the girl treats her mother hooribly, it is because the mother has allowed it. Mom needs to toughen up and make her pay back the 6K fromt he party.

Just my 2 cents.

Hey A.~

I think with reading over 2 hrs of advice you have on here, your friend should do fine, if she is attentive to the advice.
I was reading up on this Kitchen Table Play and Learn, and very interesting- and worthwhile. Congratualions on the best seller!
I just wanted to say that your friend is not alone. Being a parent is not easy but it is rewarding. I have seen a lot of children at 17 who think they can run over thier parents, and end up in the streets, but later in life- they come to thank thier parent and are their best friend and support. It is tough and a lot of tears will be shed, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Keep on supporting your friend, but don't hesitate to show her what she is doing wrong either. Friends must be honest, even if it hurts. Good luck and know we are praying for you.

I only have a 6 year and 12 year old at home but my idea would be the following if i was in the situation. I am so sorry and angry at the same time-so many teens these and GenX's think they are ENTITLED to so many things--no mattter what they, do say or act with their parents or people around them.
Regarding the daughter--"TOUGH LOVE"--give her 3 months to find a job and an apartment to live in. PICK A DATE FOR HER TO MOVE OUT AND DO NOT CHANGE THE DATE--DO NOT BACK OUT OF THE DEAL--STICK TO YOUR GUNS--IT WILL BE HARD BUT I KNOW THE MOM CAN DO IT--YOUR DAUGHTER WILL BE BETTER IN THE LONG RUN--YES SHE WILL PROBABLY DISLIKE YOU--HOWEVER--MOM needs to know that she is a valued person who has done her best to give her daughter good values, love and support--but when RESPECT is broken by a daughter and son--then things need to change. Roomates and information on affordable appartments can be found on campus through resources provided by the college: plus they have areas where jobs are posted all the time and usually change weekly.
Then break down the expenses the daughter will need to cover--food, insurance (if she has a car),gas, entertainment, cell phone, telephone--the bills we pay as adults and--all the fun stuff teens want but never pay for ( partying with friends ect...)Th
Mom: I would offer to pay for the 1/2 of the deposits that are needed when you move into an apartment.( again she is helping but not paying for everything). Keep helping to pay for tuition but make it a requirement to keep a certain GPA or she should not have to pay for school.
It will be hard on mom-but take it from me---when you are not tough on children and make them responsible for their actions--how will they ever make it when they start their career and family of their own in the future.
Good Luck and God Bless
V.
MAKE

A., I would suggest a few things to your friend and than stay out of it. I would hate to see it backfire on your advice. Personally have 2 grown girls, I would kick her butt out. She is an adult and adults live on their own and pay for thier child-like mistakes. Any kid that had a party in a
parents house with that kind of damaage doesn't have respect for them. The person that pays the bills, rent, etc. is the person who SETS the rules and if she CHOOSES not to follow them she is out. We wrote the rulescontract down and all signed it! KIDS threaten they will quit school, oh well. It is hard in the real world and I believe they need to learn that by living it. Some don't listen and take advantage of parents and the parents let them.
She doesn't even have a concept of money/expenses and that is
why she got fired and had a big party.
Good Luck. I hope your friend stays strong and firm!

i am a "tough love" parent. as long as the uppity 19yr old is still at home, she needs to comply to the rules her mother has decided must be respected. if the young lady would prefer to give her mom the finger, missy can go couch-tripping. maybe a taste of the real world and all its difficulties will cause missy to reconsider how she has been behaving. the world is really hard for most of us. only a select few get the comfort and affluence to bypass the major survival struggles. young missy aged 19 has a loving mother she is frankly treating poorly. mama wants her to move out and help pay for some of the costs? how utterly generous and kind of mommy. but why should she? because she loves her daughter? love aint about rewarding being trampled on.
i know many people wont agree with me and frankly, i dont care. i have raised a daughter who was a nightmare until after out in the world a few years and faced with the gritty realities. and now my husband's 19yr old son is living with us and is receiving a significant wake-up call. he however is opting to comply with only a little bit of complaining, which given his age, is truthfully, rather lightweight.
missy 19yr old uppity needs a genuine wake up call.
her mother has the right to live as she needs and wants to in her own home. her daughter is over 18 and mommy is no longer the financial source, nor the guaranteed roof over her head.
why people molly coddle is beyond me. molly coddling never gives kids a lift up into facing factual data about reality, and does more harm than good. Love sometimes has to be rather tough. my husband's son used to think "crocodile tears" would work our nerves. when he learned it did not, he was royally pissed. since that confrontation a couple months ago, he has been making more effort to respect the rules. he still whines and complains, but that is also part of how 19yr olds operate. however, his behavior has improved tremendously.
the crux between childhood and adulthood is pitted with complexed obstacles. i opt for a rather plain speaking and blunt approach. after 18, parents are not responsible for paying for their kids or supplying them a place to live. i wont even go into " she is attempting to assert her independence"...geesh, they start doing that @ three and continue stage by stage, so why @ 19 that is significant is beyond me. same old, same old, i got the dumb button, the uglygimme cap, the freaking t-shirt, and the ballpoint pen that never worked from when i got the bugger. LOL!!!!, in my opinion mom of uppity 19yr old missy needs to get tough and stand by the standards she needs and wants to live by. uppity 19yr old missy has friends and if need be, she can sleep on peoples couches.
financial willingness to help? missy needs to get another job and mom could say, i will provide you the security deposit for a modest studio apartment, but thats it! hope this helps....blessings and good humor.

I am not so sure that your friend will take kindly to you giving this advise. I have a daughter who had the 'tude and thought because she was 18 could do as she pleased. She thought she didn't have to do any chores so she stopped. I actually had to serve her an eviction notice. The law says you cannot just kick your child out if they have been living there and I wanted this to stick. She straightened out for a bit then moved out. She is a wonderful child now and is still very independent. She calls me almost every day (even though I am the one she hated before she moved out). There is hope...

I too have a 19 year old daughter that lives at home and attends a local JC. Sounds like your friend with the 19 year old trouble maker needs to set some rules. Sending her out on her own and paying the bills is just telling her it is OK to do what you want and mama with pay the $$$$. Sounds like mom and daughter need to sit down and have a talk. Hold the daughter accountable for her actions. Work out a payment plan to pay mom back for the damage to the house. Even if she pays $20 a week/month, it will teach her responsibility for her actions. Maybe next time she will think twice before having a party in moms house. Option 2 is my choice. Goodluck!

Yes, move her out. It's time for the responsibility and consequences to be her own. If she cant handle being on her own, she should know she is welcome back anytime IF she follows the rules, no exceptions. I think Mom could (if she is able) handle all the moving expenses and possibly the deposit for a place. Duaghter will tend to lolly-gag so she doesn't have to move so tell Mom to give her a time to be out. It's hard because we want our kids to be allowed to be kids with all that that entails, but this is too much irresponsibility. She will carry through her whole life all the things she gets away with now, as well as all the things she learns now.

This is one of those hot topics.

If your friend has managed to raise a child with this kind of attitude, do you really think your friend is going to be able to change now? Your friend's daughter became this way because of your friend's style of parenting, and likely no advice in the world is going to enable your friend to take charge.

From looking at your list, it's apparent that you probably know everything your friend needs to do without any advice from the moms. But since you're asking...

If the kid stays at home: mom's house, mom's rules. That's it.

If the kid moves out: help her get started, and occasional help as she deserves it. If she sucks mom dry, the help should cease.

Hi A.:
Seems like the two are a bit conflicted. If she's moving out, a lot of the problems will go away on their own. But, if she's moving out and rules are being imposed on her (curfew?) then she's not really moving out. How does your friend expect to control those rules when she's not there? What does she want to do? Does she really want to go to school? Would she rather work? Maybe give her that option. Tell her, I am willing to pay these expenses for you if your going to school. Sounds to me that your friend needs to stop treating her like a child, and let her make some decisions on her own.

A., Bless you. Your friend needs to know that what is going on with the 19 yoa is NOT personal. The daughter is just 'smelling her tail'. Is there a male involved? She might need to visit Planned Parenthood (they have awesome info and counselors)
Why does Friend need to pay any exterior bills for this '19 yoa'; if she is out of control in Mom's house what can happen in her 'own' place? They do what you allow them to do. Friend need not feel guilty being a single. Friend need not try to buy respect from '19 yoa'. Your friend needs clear rules and consequences. Don't reward bad behavior or throw threats that you don't intend on keeping. Does '19 yoa' have clear and finite responsibilities? Is the '19 yoa a leader? If so, assist her in constructive use of such skills. Can you speak share with?
If '19 yoa' really wants freedom; she can define her responsibilitis toward independence on a time-line. This is a time when the phrase "This hurts me more than you" really has substance. Best Wishes!

Hi A.,

Wow! From the responses I had no idea how many mommies think like me. I wholeheartedly agree with Allison and the other mom's who say for this girl to get it together.

But I am curious about your friend and if she is ready to throw down the hammer. I am not sure the help and assistance should be wasted on the daughter but given to your friend in support and encouragement. She has been letting her daughter walk all over her for too long and now she has to stand up and show her that a woman cannot be bullied by their children. The mother has to decide to kick her out, because why would the daughter leave if she is getting to do what she wants and get away with it.
It sounds like your friend needs help standing up, and cutting her daughter off. At least until her daughter gets it together.
I believe we are here for our children to help make them selfsuffcient and responsible adults. And tough love is absolutely necessary to accomplish this.
Good luck to you and your friend.
I remember being 19...I knew everything!!! I wish I was still that smart!

Has your friend thought of setting her up in a dorm room? Even JC's have dorms. I went into a dorm my freshman year of college. Went home for vacations. I've gone back home for one week while selling one house and waiting to move into the other.

She'll like being her own person so much she'll never want to go back home. Then the mom can enjoy the adult that her daughter has become.

Hit the Road, Jack!

Seriously, give the child an opportunity to turn around with some guidelines for paying back the damages, correcting her behavior, and living pleasantly with one another. If those changes do not occur, work on an exit plan with budget and give a deadline for the girl to be on her own.

My daughter is on her own and a dream child (now)! She works, goes to school full time, volunteers in her brother's class weekly, spends pleasant time with the family and is a GOOD girl. We do not pay any expenses, other than medical.

Wife of 1: ;0)
Mom of 4: 19yr girl, 11 yrboy, 6 yr boy, and baby due in 2 wks!

The girl is 19. She should be treated like an adult... which to me means "if you want to live in my home, you pay your way." That doesn't mean pay money, although that might be part of it. What it does mean is you respect my rules and my home. If you can't do that, you are welcome to find your own way. I'm getting the idea that the mom is paying for the college, so is concerned about her investment. It sounds to me like this girl may not appreciate her education unless she has to figure out how to get it on her own. There is nothing wrong with a young person getting a job for a few years to earn their education and going back to college later. Often it makes the education more valuable, because they then take it seriously.