5 Year Old Very Difficult to Handle

This was my daughter a few months ago. She is now calmer, sweeter, and much more respectful.

I took nervy girl up on her suggestion to read taking charge. Great book.

I suggest that you're trying too hard. Sounds like you expect her to quickly learn how to behave in various situations and stop being difficult. This just doesn't happen.

It is good to talk with her but too much talk only makes the situation worse. She has the mind of a 5 year old and it does not work the same way your mind works. If you expect her to understand why, she won't in most cases.

What I suggest is that you read several parenting books that include discussions of child development so that you understand why some things work and some don't. Then decide on a style of parenting that fits both your way of doing things and the way your daughter learns and responds. I recommend two: Parenting with Love and Logic by Foster Cline and 1-2-3 Magic.

It is a matter of you repeating your expectations over and over in a calm respectful way. It also involves stopping or preventing behavior before it worsens. Early intervention.

Make consequences fit the misbehavior so she can learn that this behavior results in this and the this is teaching her how to behave. It's not a punishment. It's a learning experience. Laughing when you discipline immediately gets her sent to her room because you don't want to be with her when she's disrespectful. See the logic in that.

Take away toys when they're a part of the problem. Take away electronics when she's abusing the privilege of using them. Not when she laughs in your face.

Don't pay attention to the kids at school. Let them stop playing with her if they don't like her rambunctious play. If she complains to you that they won't play with her, use this as a teaching moment to discuss reasons and how she can behave differently. She's already been "punished" by their not playing with her. Another punishment isn't going to teach her anything except that you don't understand and are not being helpful.

You cannot protect her from hurt feelings. She has to learn for herself what makes kids turn away from her, tease her. Your role is to help her learn why this happens and how to change it. Lecturing her will not teach her because she's not understanding what you're saying. You have to ask her why she thinks this is happening. Guide her to figure it out for herself.

When we give kids the answers they learn very little. Well,,,,,,,except to rely on others to tell them how to behave. We want our children to know how to behave because they've made the lessons a part of themselves.

When she comes home crying you don't pick up the pieces. You sympathize with her. You don't try to teach her anything. What ever happened and he crying is the lesson. When she's ready to look at the situation and figure out the reasons is when you talk about it. Not when she's crying and probably not at the same time even.

The discipline that works for my daughter and her children is to send them to their room when they've disobeyed, were disrespectful, not listened and done what was requested. This way there are no arguments. The child has an opportunity to calm down and think about what has happened. They can do whatever they want while in the room because being distracted often helps us to calm down and focus while we work thru our feelings. There is no set amount of time to be in there. They can come out when they're ready to apologize or to talk about the situation in a calm manner if they don't understand why they were sent there. Mom gives them a hug, reminds them why the went in and asks if they understand.

If they haven't done their chores, they have to immediately do them before being able to do anything else. Make consequences be a way to teach right behavior.

By having a routine for discipline the kids get used to it and stop fighting against it. It is normal to fight discipline when it's punitive. What goes thru the kids mind is "it's not fair." Once you do the same thing over and over it does become routine, the child realizes you're not going to change it and learns to figure out how to get the job done.

You seem to have a two-part problem: What to do at home and what to do at preschool.

At home; I think it's time for you to explore Love and Logic or another tried and true discipline program. Personally, it sounds like much of this is attention-getting behavior, and since I don't know you, I am not sure what's behind this and how *you* are (emotionally) when you discipline.

Another book I love is "Taking Charge: Caring Discipline that Works At Home and At School" by JoAnn Nordling. I don't have time to explain it all, but for myself, I loved this book both as a parent and a preschool teacher. There is time spent observing the child and the behavior before attempting to correct it, so as to identify what's behind the behavior (which unmet need) and then different options for making corrections. As a more methodical person myself, I valued this very deliberate process.

What I also love about that book is how Nordling explains a child's level of need for attention and ways to most effectively give positive attention: especially when they are doing something they (the child) finds pleasurable for their own joy. When they are engaged in this way, simply rubbing their back, squeezing their shoulder, tousling their hair, smiling at them-- this really fills them up and validates their whole being. It's a strong, profound way to connect and offer love and attention without a lot of talking.

In regard to preschool, yes, peer correction is a very powerful thing. Maybe some other moms could help out: does anyone have any good social stories for this mom to use with her girl regarding approaching other kids to play, being respectful of their personal space, etc? Your local children's librarian may also have some good books on the subject to offer.

Lastly, I wouldn't overtalk the undesired behaviors, but be sure to point out and give positive feedback when you see her making progress. "I saw how you went up to Rachel this morning and asked her in a sweet voice if she wanted a hug." or "Tasha seemed very happy when you sat with her and played kitchen--your body was so relaxed and peaceful. She seemed very comfortable next to you." I hope the teachers are also using a lot of narrative, reflective language with her :"Oh, when you were yelling, did you notice Sarah's face? She looked scared and upset, and then she walked away. I wonder-- maybe Sarah will play with you if you use a quieter voice? Maybe you should try that." Kids do often take a while to really 'get it' when their peers don't like what's going on, and kids will have challenges even into the early primary years. (My own son is learning that when he only wants to play what *he* wants, his friends will go play with other kids. He's in kindergarten and so many of them are *still* getting it.)

Just remember, every child has their strengths and areas which need more development. I strongly recommend "Taking Charge"... or Love and Logic and hope things improve for you.

Agree with the poster before me. "Love and Logic" worked well for us.

I think that some of it is natural consequences. If she doesn't calm down, they won't play with her. Let her figure that out.

I found How To Talk So Your Kids Will Listen has a lot of good tips. One chapter is on not punishing. Which does not mean let her run wild. It means find a new way to discipline and guide without being so punative. Teach her what TO do vs just what NOT to do. I find I do Time Out far less when I try to think of ways to discipline DD vs punish. Discipline is long term. Punishment is short term.

You can also channel her into things like gymnastics or theatre.

Does she know right and wrong?
Does she know, what mean and nice, is?
She seems to be getting a lot of explaining for things and lecturing. About her behavior.
But have you ever just told her "THAT IS WRONG. It is inappropriate...."
Many times, young kids get over-talked, to. Over lectured to. And just overly explained to.
But, the POINT of it all, is to just teach a child, right and wrong.
Appropriate and inappropriate.
And TOLD... the words "That is, wrong." "It is UNacceptable."
Bluntly.
Then, you walk away.
If she tantrums, let her.
Walk away.
A kid, will deflate on their own. And, especially when they realize, that you will not.... cater to their monster moods and behavior.

And tell her "That is wrong. REDO, that." And walk away.
Then, keep telling her "REDO, that..." until she does so in an acceptable manner.
Stand your ground.
TEACH her, manners.
Don't coddle her.
Teach her, right and wrong.

Being smart and "advanced"... has nothing to do with maturity.
And sometimes, some kids, because they are always told they are "smart" or advanced... they think they can act, anyway... they, want.
It becomes, an excuse. For their behavior.
So, be careful of that.
I see, at my kids' school, some kids like that. Because they are "smart" or gifted... they think they can act any way they want. That they are "entitled."
So again, be careful what you tell your child.
Being smart... takes work. It is not just something on a silver platter.

Give her chores.
Make her do things in the house.
Make her earn.... things. Not things or money... but, praise and camaraderie... with you and Daddy.
Make her learn... what working for something is. What HELPING THE FAMILY... is.
She is 5.
I was teaching my kids that from when they were toddlers.
HOW TO BE... a part... of the family.
How to be... a TEAM.

And sure, if she comes crying home one day because someone didn't want to play with her. Yes, you tell her. That is what happens. She needs to learn... by life, lessons.
You cannot hinder that.
Because, once she enters Elementary school... the dynamics are very different.
And they have to learn: how to compromise and how to cooperate.

When your daughter is mean to you. Take note of it.
Then, the next time she makes a request or asks you something... tell her "I don't know, you were mean to me, prior. It was wrong. I am sad now. You did not apologize. I don't want to, right now...."
and make her think, about that.
And make her apologize... when she does wrong.
Teach her... repercussions.
Not just that it is taking away her toys. Objects.
I have told my kids at times "Mommy does not want to do that for you right now. You gave me a bad attitude earlier. I don't appreciate it. It was wrong. Now, I am busy. I expect you, to know better." And then I walk away. And I TELL them "I will not play with you right now. You gave me attitude...." and I walk away.
I tell my kids, no.
Their repercussion is: that Mommy will not, put up with it nor do anything, for them. And they need to make, amends.
And I tell them PROBLEM SOLVE, that. REDO, that.
Then, come to me.

It is very important... to teach a child, HOW to behave... and make amends. And to apologize. For their, wrongdoing.
You TELL THEM THAT.
No beating around the bush.
NO verbal dances or over talking it.

Hi P., we're having similar issues with our 4.5 and 3 year old. My sitter just strongly recommended "Have a New Kid by Friday." I just started it last night, but it seems awesome for me. However, I think the main idea is being consistent, following through, etc. It sounds like you guys do discipline already, so I'm not sure if it will help or not. But I'm going to give it a try, because I am horrible at follow through! Anyway, may be worth a shot if you want to check it out. Good luck.

Thank you for your answer Marda P.!

I, too, have a 5 year old that behaves in a very similar way and it drives me crazy. I can only imagine how it feels to him.

In our case, my son is currently going through evaluations at our children's hospital for autism/behavior and development concerns based on some other issues he has/had. I am hoping we will get some things to try to make kindergarten and the years beyond pleasant and productive for him. The first parent-only meeting is next week and i'm nervous and excited!

It's a phase, do the same things, lather, rinse, repeat.

I don't have any words of wisdom but I can totally relate. My daughter is 6.5 and also a handful. It seems the older she gets, the worse it is. She talks back like a teenager. Hands on hips, rolled eyes and snarky attitude is what I get day in and day out. I have gotten very strict with her and it's like she could care less. Mine is an only child so I have nothing to compare to. Good luck!

It won't hurt to have her evaluated by your district's child study team. I don't know how it works in your state, but in NJ any parent of a preschool-age child can request an evaluation. Again, in NJ, one of the things they test for is social/behavioral issues. Your daughter sounds a lot like my son. After his evaluation, he was able to receive special accommodations in school including a shared aide and OT. There are loads of free special services for children who need them -- take advantage of whatever you can get.

Good luck!

I think the 3 most important things to consider when you say you are strict and punish her are whether you are consistent, whether the punishment matches and relates to whatever she did wrong, and whether you explain with words why what she did was wrong, and what would have been right in its place. If these three things are WELL in place and you are CERTAIN of not giving any mixed messages, then, and only then need you be further concerned. Often as parents we don't stick to those 3 things above (for whichever reason, often it's fatigue!) and then we don't get the behaviour we would like from our children. Also, you need to make sure that the school is also adhering to them.
Oh, and 1 more thing are you sure she spends enough quality time with you, and she isnt doing it formthe attention?
Good luck!