5-6 Year Old Sass and Defiance

Probably not much useful in the books because this is typically a great age. Kids have traditionally started school at 5/6 for that very reason. They are usually old enough to listen and follow directions but still young enough to want to please the adults around them. I subbed in K many times and loved that age, not for their occasional tears and snotty noses, but for their attitudes, they were great!
Next time remain calm but firm. No, you WILL come with me, now. If she pushes it just say no, we are going. Once you get home you can remind her why children stay with adults in public until they are older. At her age she should have the basic cognitive skills to understand, and she is too old to be throwing a fit (if that's what she did?)
And parenting is not always "graceful" in fact it's often messy and hard so you'd better get used to that. If she's got a "teen" attitude now it means you've already started losing her respect and at her age that's truly frightening, she needs YOU to be in charge!

I have a 5 year old and a nearly-7 year old and yeah, it's the age. My oldest especially is a 'tester' and will challenge me on any little thing if the mood so strikes her. Not only is it testing the boundaries and limitations, but it's testing out the power of language and the effect is has on other people.

I try (but don't always succeed! lol) to be as calm and matter-of-fact with her as possible. Otherwise, I'm just aggravating the situation by become loud and emotional like my daughter. I also use the line "I gave you my answer and it's not going to change" and it seems to be effective. Another thing I do is have *them* repeat my answer or instructions back to me as in "what did I ask you to do and are you doing it?"

Personally, I wouldn't man-handle my child into doing what I want. A defiant toddler is one thing, but a 5/6/7 year old that testing out her independence and language is another, and just picking her up like a piece of luggage seems wrong to me. But if it works for other people without making the child feel helpless and inconsequential *shrug*

If it were me, I would respond as if her comments were no more than inconsequential ideas.

"I can just leave home, I don't have to go with you"...
"oh, honey, I know that sounds exciting for you and we are leaving right now. If you want to leave home, let's make a plan for that when we get home so you can at least get your clothes packed up and think about what you want to take with you."

Calm, collected, "it ain't no thing" peaceful attitude from you. I'm sure you are going to get a big, open-mouthed stare if you call her on it by agreeing with her. Sense of humor, keeping it cheerful,you stay unruffled.

"I can walk home"
"yes, you can honey, but the police might have something to say about that. See, they don't like it when kids go off without their parents [don't say 'parents leave their kids' because it puts her back in the drivers seat, you are calling her bluff] so I thought I'd help you out with this one."

Sometimes, if you can agree to her statement without letting her do what she wants,it stops the argument. It does sound like she is either doing this as an attention-getting action or is certainly testing the waters.

Does this only happen when you are out and about? If that's the case, the next time your husband is at home and you have the chance not to take her with you, I'd seriously consider making a point of leaving her at home. If she wants to go, a short "you know, when I told you it was time to go, you were rude to me. I don't need that nonsense and so you can stay home." Short and sweet.

Another idea would be to have a clear 'currency' consequence (you know, we talk about a kid's "currency" on this site--- about how kids all have an Achilles heal, something they love to do/watch/play). When it's calm time, simply state "The last few times we've been out, when I have told you it was time to go home, you were very rude to me. I'm concerned that you are developing a bad habit of saying rude things, and so this stops now. Whenever we hear you threaten to leave or rude talk, you will lose time doing (currency item or activity) or (item) will go away for the rest of the day, or even the next day."

If the problem is also happening throughout the day at home, consider reversing it: have her 'earn' time with her special item/show by completing a day without rude remarks or sassing. You'll have to figure out what's going to be more effective for her(taking the item away or letting her earn it) , and you also have to let the sulking go while calling her on the threats/remarks. In short, don't pick on everything she says, but do be clear with her when she's crossing those lines.

<I do have to say, 'old school style', that if I had threatened my parents with leaving off by myself, they likely would have pulled out and driven around the block-- giving me just enough time to burst into tears and wish I'd never said anything before they came back and said "are you ready to go now?" I'm not recommending it, but the thought did cross my mind. >

My daughter regularly told me she wished she could live somewhere else - that she was going to run away. So, calmly (most of the time - but not all) I'd ask her where she would go to live, and which mom she'd rather have. I'd bring up the names of other moms we knew well (close friends, neighbors, BFF's moms, etc.) we'd go through each mom and we'd "evaluate" them as if she could go live with them. She's cast off every mom except one, my neighbor across the street, Virginia. So I'd offer to call Sandy and see if she wanted a daughter. I went to so far as to ask if she'd come over to visit me because I would really miss her - since she was after all my girl who I love. We never got to the point of calling Virginia - she always backed off by then. My son did consider moving out to the backyard shed a few times - but I reminded him that it was still part of our home and that it wasn't really running away. His food source was going to be sneaking into our house at night and taking food. ;o)

So I guess what I'm saying is that I entered into "rational" conversations with my kids about their options if they chose to run away. I asked the questions and allowed them to arrive at their own conclusions. But I always made sure they understood that I loved them and only wanted the best for them and that I would miss them desperately if they ran away. Some may call it guilt, I call it honesty and learning how to fully evaluate your actions.

Good luck mama. Before you know it she'll be 15 and will really be pushing yoru buttons! Get plenty of rest and plenty of practice now saying "no". :o)

After reading your SWH, I would say that giving her too much freedom is your problem, mom.

What I would have done after the taco incident is put her in her room while everyone was eating tacos and not allowed her to have that for dinner. She could have had something from the frig by herself after everyone else enjoyed the tacos. THAT would have made an impression on her.

As far as the arboretum is concerned, I would have picked her up and deposited her into the car and told her that her comments were not welcome. She knows perfectly well that you won't actually drive away without her, and I think that it's a bad precedent to set that you tell her you'll let her do something that you both know that you won't do. Pick a time you have someone at the house who will stay with her (not play with her, but stay at the house), and take the rest of the kids out for an hour to the arboretum. Tell her she cannot go because of her attitude the last time she went. THIS is how you get it across to her that her sass and defiance have a REAL consequence. You already told her that you would withhold going from her. Stand up to her and make this consequence happen. You don't need a book to figure this out, mama. You need consistent action. If all your threats ring hollow to a child, she will milk it for all it's worth.

My daughter is turning 6 next week and we've been dealing with this a lot this past spring and summer - one time she even told me she was going to be 6 and she is going to be in first grade and I can't tell her what to do anymore.

OH REALLY?

She's always been a strong-willed little thing, so she challenges me constantly but it seems like lately it's been really ramped up - everything is questioned, everything is, "But why....?", and I've started to realize that some of this is her personality, but I don't have the patience to put up with it all the time. "1-2-3 Magic" works well with her. And reminding her that if she is going to give me a hard time, we are not going to do whatever fun thing is planned. And when she wants to keep arguing about it, just telling her, "I'm done talking about it - I gave you my answer and it is not changing." A few times when her behavior has been really over-the-top, we've taken away "screen time".

And I admit, sometimes I handle it gracefully - and sometimes not. ;)

Ok, I must be missing something here. I'm not seeing an 'issue', of course I haven't heard the tone, or the mannerism's behind it, but overall I think this is not a 'big' issue.

So 'she can walk home', she sounds like a smart girl, use your smarts and your words to make an impact as to why she shouldn't. Of course she probably could walk home, but is it a safe move? Did she want a cold dinner? What was her plan if she got lost?

"She can leave home, she doesn't have to go with you.". Again a true statement. Make her think, she can leave home without you, but the law says differently, the law says that until she is 18, she has to live at home and she has to follow your rule. If she doesn't go with you what are her plans?

You fight smarts with smarts, she is going to keep you on your toes. Her independence is a great thing, I bet she's been 'doing it' on her own since she has figured out how to put her shoes on. If you try to battle at every turn, you will find her teens years unbearable, she has said nothing that isn't true. There was no defiance or sass, she stated a fact, now show her that her facts have error's.

Also as I think others have mentioned make sure that your expectations are very clear to her when you are doing something. If you are going to dinner before you get there spell it out for her. Let her know before you leave what will happen if she doesn't meet those expectations.

Have you considered maybe she has too much freedom? Since you homeschool she does not have the structure and 'discipline' that other kids experience in a regular school setting.

I am not sure a book is going to provide you the guidance you are seeking. I feel a lot of parenting needs to come from within. You instinctually know what is right.

From how you've described things in the past, I think you're too afraid to crush her spirit but I think you do need to reign her in. Like you said, she is 5 not 15. I'd hate to see her at 15 if you don't get this under control now.

I believe in natural consequences. My consequence for the first scenario would be: Since you chose to give me a hard time about getting in the car, we will not be getting carry out or eating out for x amount of time. Similarly with the second situation: You gave me a hard time when it was time to leave the arboretum, so our outings for the rest of the week are canceled. You may feel like this is punishing yourself and your other kids as well, but it's really the best way to nip this in the bud. She needs to see the direct result of her poor choices. If you don't do this, and head out to another fun outing today, she'll think oh, Mom could care less that I didn't behave when it was time to go home, so I'll just keep doing it and keep getting to go to fun places.

I've had to do this with my daughter. She is very strong willed and doesn't like to be told what to do. While we still struggle with a lot of things, the act of getting her to leave a place when she's told is one that we've overcome. When she was your daughter's age, she would have terrible tantrums when it was time to go home from somewhere and she wasn't ready. I would talk to her ahead of time and remind her that if she acted up when it was time to leave, we wouldn't come back for a long time. And I followed through. One time she acted up at McDonald's Play Place and I didn't take her back for a whole year. Every time she would ask to go, I reminded her of how she didn't listen. When we went back after a year, she listened when it was time to go. She ran off of the equipment to get her shoes.

Learning from their own mistakes is what it's all about. This definitely creates a responsible, independent person!

I'm like you, no hovering on micromanaging, lots of freedom of choice. But I have a no tolerance policy for that natural behavior and it has nothing to do with anger. Someone below commented on homeschooling-I also homeschool and BECAUSE of that, I have been strict on behavior. Much stricter than some of my kid's "regular school" friends. Whenever my kids attend public classes and events, I get compliments on their behavior. My daughter got "student of the year" for her entire Tae Kwon Do school. The only reason my kids can complete their school work gracefully every day and sit through their music lessons politely and travel to attend mature events without being disruptive is because of discipline. Sometimes they can go wild. Sometimes they have to absolutely behave.

When your daughter pulls one of those stunts, don't feel mad, just handle it as a matter of course. Firmly. And immediately. After one warning. She'll get it quickly. At five there is all the self-control necessary to mind you so you can go back to being laid back. I recommend Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson. Sure there are reasons developmentally WHY kids wanna act that way. Doesn't mean you have to let them. The more effective you are, the less you'll have to deal with it. If she's just attempting this at five she's got a good nature. You can put a stop to it. If you're getting mad, it means you're waiting too long to step in. There usually are lots of little infractions before a child grates your last nerve. Intervene right away to prevent all that. When she talks back, FIRM warning. If she does it one more time, major follow through. She'll stop. My 7 year old sometimes wants to "walk home". We can make a game of it for a bit, but once I say, "Ok, for real now get in the car" that's it. She wouldn't try to push it past a boundary that's always been there.

Do you give her consequences for back-talk?

My 6 yr old is really big on back talk right now, so I've implemented a system where he starts each day with 10 points. Each time he speaks disrespectfully to me, ignores me, or sasses he loses 1 point. At the end of the day, if he has less than 5 points left, he's the first kid to bed. If he's lost all his points, he's first to bed and also isn't allowed any screen time the next day.

Seems to be helping quite a bit.

I have a dry-erase calendar in the kitchen with our daily activities, so I just write a "10" on each day, and as we go through the day I change it as warranted.

One thing I think is soooooo very helpful is to not let them get you frustrated,upset or ruffled in any way with their behavior. It is a huge pay off for a child to think that THEY have control over YOU. And...when they see mom get all upset...bammo...they feel they have won!! Even if you come back with taking a privilege away...they still feel they won...they got you upset.

So, when she says "I can walk home". Which essentially is "I don't care mom...I am going to do what I want to do." You CALMLY say, "That is right, you can walk home. But a policeman might stop you because you are too young to walk home alone. It is your responsibility to follow the rules just as it is MY responsibility to follow the rules and I have to follow the policeman's rules by driving you home."

Talk about expectations and have her repeat it to you. "Jane, I expect you to to go to the car in two minutes so we can leave. Now Jane, what do I expect you to do in two minutes?" Then have her say it right back to you. I am telling ya...it works. We learned this in a parenting class. There is something about them stating out loud what they are expected to do...it really works for us. We use it with our 13,10 and 7 year old.

It is a neat parenting "trick". We ask alot of questions in our home that makes them state the end result we expect. "Where does that sweatshirt go?" Then they state "oh...up on the hook." Then I say, "That's right hun..thanks for putting it away." They may have had no intention of helping out...but something happens once they have stated it out loud and you say "That is right..thanks for putting it away." 9 out of 10 times they look at me strange...but then put it away. Then once they REALLY put it on the hook I say thanks again.

We learned we had to totally change how we were talking to them...to not tell our kids to do something..but instead put it in the form of a question. I know...sounds like mumbo jumbo psycho babble. But I swear it works!!

Just yesterday this was our scenario. Cereal bowl left on the table. I used to say.."Hey Joey, come put your cereal bowl in the sink please." Not anymore. "Hey Joey, where does your cereal bowl go when you are done?" He said, "The sink" And he got up from his game and put it away. No fight..no arguing...no dallying. Try it!! It works..but it takes a little while to break you and your child of the old habit. Sometimes you have to ask the question a few times..but the trick is to have them state the desired result each time.

Good luck and best wishes!!

The two examples you mention here both involve her wanting to walk around outdoors alone. Right? Walk home from taco place, leave home at some random time....

Maybe someone put that thought in her head? The idea that "big kids" get to walk places outside by themselves?

So I agree with Flaming Turnip - give her some wiggle room to do that. Instead of driving to [fill in blank with name of a not-too-far-away place], walk there, and you can walk behind her at a safe distance.

It's good exercise. And she might really enjoy that!!

I call this the "Kindergarten Girl (or boy) Syndrome." It's a stage they go through when hitting new thoughts of independence, at 5 or so. Another word for it is bossy. You can tell yourself, "Yay! She's getting more independent and more confident!" (Yeah....right). Just keep being consistent and insist on good manners, like you always have. She should ease out of the sassiness within a year. Be sure to know her "currency," so you know what consequence will have meaning to her. If it's TV or friends, whatever - be ready to follow through with whatever you deem unacceptable and enforce a consequence for that behavior. Good luck!

This is what happens when you micromanage your kids. They hit a point where they say I can do this! Thing is since they were never introduced to age appropriate freedom they go with stupid stuff like walking home from taco bell.

The easiest way to counter it is giving her age appropriate freedom. Friend a couple blocks down, let her walk there on her own. Yeah watch the first few times but she will be so jazzed being a big girl she will follow every rule you give her for the adventure.

This is the time where you show her that you can physically make her do what you want. You simply go to her and pick her up and walk to the vehicle, put her in the back half where the child proof locks won't let her out, you put her in her seat belt, walk around and get in and drive off. She will get the idea that she does have to mind you and that she is not allowed to take a stand and be defiant in public.

When one of ours does this they also get a swat on their hiney. That's our style.

The problem with free range parenting is when YOU need to do something or be at work on time or make a doc's appointment. When she has to do something that is not what she wants to do.

She is the parent and has chosen to not put you in an authoritarian role. So good luck. She is her own boss and no one is going to make her do anything she doesn't feel like doing.

I know you homeschool and you mention free range parenting below so I wonder if she doesn't have enough structure? Not enough other adults as authority figures? Just a thought. I send my kids to public school which I think you look down on partly bc it's too structured and they went to preschools and some summer camps and I never had this type of problem. Both girls. Now 7.5 and almost 9 and very respectful. My 9 year old can get a bit sassy but rarely and not badly. It might be just too much time with you... Every kid is different so sometimes I think kids who are in big daycare all day are sassy bc of that but maybe there has to be a balance. Niether extreme is good. Maybe she needs time with other authority figures that she can't test as much...

ETA: I'm not sure how she runs wild yet also you have tons of structure. Seems to be a contradiction. Not trying to criticize as I know you're devoted and have your hands full. Just food for thought.

Sounds like you have a handle on it. Its just the frequency that is bothering you.
It's the age.

I teach Sunday School from right out of Kindergarten to 2nd grade. The poor lady that has the kids right before they come in my class deals with this a lot. Suddenly, they know EVERYTHING. They don't want to listen. They are smart mouthing her. They are whining. So much fun!

I am prepared from the get go to jump in with both feet. I give them a significantly greater amt of responsibility. You are right to increase her responsibilities. You just haven't gone far enough yet. When you get to the point that she says, but I want to be a kid! Then you have gone far enough.

There should not be a day that she is not carrying a package when you are out. She should be cleaning. She should be helping in the kitchen. It's not a punishment, you are just recognizing that need for independence and meeting that need.

Just keep on keeping on, mom! You will have your sweet girl back when this ballance is equilized between childhood and reality.

You teach her "right" and "wrong."
And you make her, apologize to you, when she acts like that.
Many kids (I work at my kids' school), know what sassy is and whatnot, but... they are not TOLD per say "That is wrong. Correct yourself now."
They instead get explanations/flowery explanations/debates/negotiations/time outs. And that is not effective after awhile. And they do not even, apologize. You just need to tell the child "That is WRONG. NOT acceptable."
Blunt, pointed, words.
Then, make the child correct themselves (because they DO know how at that age), and have them apologize.
And if they don't apologize right then, you tell them "You go think about yourself, and you return and apologize. I will be waiting." And then you walk away.
You let them mull over it.
Many kids, cannot or do not, self-reflect. Hence, they don't even think about how it affects others. So, start to, teach a child this. To THINK...about their actions and how it makes others feel.

Developmental stage or not, the child must learn, that acting that way is, wrong.
And you need, to, correct it.

And if the kids says "well so and so acts that way...." then you TELL the child "You don't have to be a copy-cat and follower. Have your own mind. You KNOW that is not acceptable. You know better... SHOW me."

This is perfectly normal, but absolutely unacceptable behavior.
You need to nip this now or she will be an unruly teen.
If my children did that sort of thing to me, I'd take them by the hand and march them right to the car. I would tell them in no uncertain terms that at almost 6 years old, they know how to behave. They'd get strapped in and we would go home. They would have to sit and think about their behavior on the very quiet - no talking and radio free ride home. Then at home we would discuss the behavior and the many reasons it was unacceptable. We would also discuss the upcoming event that they would be missing because of said behavior. And they would miss it - no question.
Next time you have plans to go somewhere, remind her before you leave the house what you expect - good behavior and when it is time to go, it's time to go. If she doesn't behave, you will be leaving early. If she gives you a hard time when it is time to leave, we won't go next time.
Then, if there is a next time to visit with friends or whatever, you remind her that she didn't come when asked and she can't go this time. Maybe next time.
I can honestly say that I didn't have any issues with this past the age of 3.5 because I did not tolerate any of this type of behavior. We left one birthday party early because of bad behavior. That's all it took. No more issues.
Good luck!