4 Month Old, Overnights with Daddy

I don't think a baby that young should be allowed overnight visits with dad. I had a friend that had gone through a divorce and he couldn't have overnight visits with his daughter until she was 3 years old. Children that young need their mom, especially if you are breastfeeding. I don't think you are being too hard. If I were you I would fight right now not to let that happen. That would not be good for the baby. Babies need stability.

I think that this new baby needs to be with you since he is still breastfeeding. If you absolutely have to give in, I would only do one night per week...and pump for him. I would explain to the daddy that it is WONDERFUL that he wants to be so involved and care for baby, but he needs to understand the breastfeeding part.. and that when he gets older and is weaned, he can spend three nights a week with him. That's what I would do.

It is my belief that an infant, breastfeeding or not, needs their momma more than any other being at this time in their life. This will change someday...when he is a closer to 18 months or into his toddler years...he will want to spend more time with daddy. But for now, I think you're right...he needs that bonding time with you. He still thinks of himself as part of you, and will for the next few months. He does not have an individual identity yet, and, I think, may feel lost or incomplete without being with his momma for three days straight. Can dad do daytimes, or evening times?

At 4 months old babies do not need their fathers as much as their mothers. If that was the case God would have given the father milk producing boobs too.

You are being a normal mother. Although there is nothing wrong with that, you have an advantage that some women never get. The dad wants the child to be with him too. My children's father made the excuse that children need to be with their mother so he didn't have to change diapers, etc. Pumping during the nights that daddy has him are an easy fix. If dad is not trying to be taking the baby just to be mean to you, then you still remain blessed to have the extra help that most women don't get in separations/divorce. Sleep well when you don't have him so you don't get burnt out when you do. Charish every moment with him that much more and encourage the dad to take him when he wants him,because it may end and then you get hurt in other ways. Don't use the baby as ways to argue. I hope this helps.

C.,
Please don't take the posts saying you are being selfish seriously. You are not even in the least bit. Breastfeeding or not, right now, your little boy needs you more than ever. With the recent separation, even at 4 months, his whole world has turned around and needs the stability of his mother and his home. To be honest, I think it's your fiancee that is being unreasonable (even if he has the best intentions in mind) to want to take your precious baby away from his food source. Your son needs the consistency of his breast milk and the bottle is not the same as nursing (I don't know about you, but when I try and pump, I don't get nearly enough for one night, let alone 3). Good luck with the courts too. I don't know about where you live, but my courts are so biased towards the father it's ridiculous. If you want to talk, I'm here. I'm going through the courts with my ex (we separated when my daughter was 10 months old and hadn't bonded with her because he was always either drunk or passed out) because he decided to come back into her life when she was 4 after he got his 17 year old girlfriend knocked up and moved in with her parents. Again, good luck with everything....I'm sure the judge would rule that it would be in your son's best interest to stay with you overnights at least until he is older. Feel free to write me if you want to talk.

I feel this is a very valid reason for not having over nights with dad. This is going to be a power struggle...show the attorneys/courts and your ex you are willing to do what is best for the baby and offer to pump when you would normally nurse and give the milk to the father, in 'exchange' for just 2 overnights a week. Let them know how long you intend to nurse and when you have reached that time offer another overnight. Compromise is key when dealing with these situations. It is very hard on the parents but even harder on the kids. This is only one of many issues that will come up over the years. Try to establish a good relationship now so that in the future you will be willing to work with each other instead of always paying for someone to decide what is best for your son. Only you and dad know that.
Best of luck

I absloutly think its so important that your son is not passed back n forth at such A young age, yes it is important for father son bonding but at this age its crucial for your son to have security,and mother bonding. Im A mother of 4 trust me on this mothers need to nurture there children.

At least he really wants to be involved. However, your son is only 4mo. old. He is still waking up at night to eat, and unless you plan on pumping (even in the dead of night) to keep your milk supply up (which is a huge pain in the pattoty--let me tell you)then he needs to spend nights with you. At least until you are introducing solids as a major part of his diet. Your delicious breast milk is the best for your baby and that should not be compramised unless under dire circumstances. I would fight tooth and nail to keep your baby with you until he is able to eat a lot more solid food.
This situation is really unfair becasue on the nights that your ex does not have the babe he will sleep soundly, where as your breasts will wake you up regardless :(
Try explaining the importance of breastmilk to the lawyers (maybe get some materials from La Leche League) and say that you do want your son to spend as much time with his dad as possible. Make it clear that you are not try to keep your ex away from him, but you are not willing to compramise his nutrition. Compramise about daytime hours where it is at least easier and more convenient for you to pump. Set an age that you are comfortable with (maybe 8mos or when he consistantly starts sleeping through the night, since you won't be nursing at that time anyways) when his milk intake will need to be a lot lower and he can be away from you at night.
Right now you son needs you more than dad becasue you have dinner attatched to your chest. If you ex could breast feed, it would be equal. One this "obsticle" is eliminated your ex will be needed 50/50. And when he's a teen he'll need his daddy more than you.

GL and don't back down!

I think it is too young to go on an overnite and I think your ex is powertripping you. I'd get something in writing from the baby's doc regarding this, and ofcourse in the baby's favor because of the breastfeeding.
Good luck, and I hope this can be worked out.

No, you are NOT being too hard! Your baby deserves and NEEDS to be with his food source at all times. I think your ex can come over to your home and sit with the baby while you run a few short errands or something. I have no idea why he would want to have a four-month-old overnight anyway. Does he not realize how demanding babies are? He must. Anyway, I commend you on not staying with someone who you aren't compatible with -- it's a hard life otherwise. I hope everything works out for you. Trust your mothering instincts and tell your ex he can have more time with his son when the baby's a bit older -- like 15!!

If everyone has your sons best interest at heart than it would not be as difficult because he is really to young to be going back and forth at night. He needs to sleep in the same bed and need consistancy in his life. It would be best for him to at least stay with you until he is done nursing. However he needs to send time with Dad. I don't see how your son being with his father overnight will be quality time with dad. They are sleeping. I would think his father would rather spend time with him when he is awake.
I think that everyone should look at what is best for him and not that he is a pawn in a game to control the other persons life. Maybe I am off base but this is my 2cents worth. I hope it helps.
C. B

Dear C.,
I agree with other responses here that a breastfeeding baby should be left with it's mother. I also agree that a baby needs consistency such as staying in the same crib at night and such. Most Judges take all that into consideration. But I have a few questions that no one here has addressed.

Does your husband work during the day? Does he have a steady job that he has to go to everyday? If so, then what does he intend to do with the baby during working hours? Daycare? I think that should be addressed. No judge is going to give a man overnight visitation with a breastfeeding child if he intends to drop the child at a daycare center during his working hours. Especially when the breastfeeding mother is a stay at home mom, who will be readily available to the child at all times. Judges in these cases rule for the best interests of the child, breastfeeding is in the best interests of the child, consistency is in the best interests of the child, and a mom who is willing to be there all the time is in the best interests of the child.

Now having said all that, I will say a child needs to bond with it's father as well. Especially boys. But as long as you are breastfeeding overnights with the absent parent should not be considered.

Just my thoughts.

I would really fight the whole no over nights due to the fact that your baby is breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is so important for you child at this age and they need that nuturing. Make sure that you discuss with your babies dad that you will be supplying breast milk for him to give the baby when he does have your son. Stress how important it is from a medical stand point that babies that are nursed have less allergies and health problems growing up. Do some research on it. If your son has been nursed up untill now he may have a hard time taking a bottle. Some babies do.

I know at least in Utah if you are breastfeeding then the father has no right to take the baby over night or long periods of time longer then in between feedings. Now if you are pumping and he is aware of it you might want to see if that changes things or not. If you are not pumping or he is not aware that you are then keep it that way. I know for me with my first I nursed the whole first year just so there was not excuse for the birth father to try and take her overnight or at all, and did not let him have a clue that I had a pump, just to be safe. He ended up backing all the way off after a year (so I never had to have her away from me) and she is now 9 and was adopted by my husband at age 3. I just had to play it safe the frist year and let him disapear on his own. Not saying that this is what you want or what will happen with you. This is just what happend for me. But I was willing to not have any child support and do it on my own in trade for having my daughter raised the way I felt best. She knows who her birth father is, but she loves her dad and never thinks twice about the fact that she was adopted. She also knows she is more then welcome to meet her birth dad someday if she wants.

Hello C.,

I think you are not being hard and your baby needs his mommy! Daddy's are important part in a childs life, (even when they are jerks) He can still bond and get quality time wtih Sahm. Stay strong you are being a very good mom!
happy day
J.

Before I make my comment, I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I have four kids. My oldest is 11 and my youngest is 14 months old. My baby went cold turkey on the breast milk I was giving him in a bottle when he was 13 months old. I pumped 3-4 times per day for the last 3 months. At first it was every 3 hours (except at night) then 4 hours. My baby still wakes up 2-3 times in the night. It has been a long and exhausting year for me. So here is my comment.

First off, I would ask yourself, will the father wake up in the middle of the night for a feeding?(my husband does not even know if I get out of bed...except for the bottles in the sink the next morning)
If he does and he's willing to take a few nights...great! I would be unbolting the kids crib and hauling it myself just so the baby is in his environment and I could get a good nights sleep!

With that said...what idiot would volunteer to take a baby 3 nights a week???? Let him do it for one night (at your house... he can sleep on the couch) to prove that he will wake up and do everything, but what's a good nights sleep worth to you! After complaining real loud my husband finally took a night of the baby for me. I slept in the guest bedroom, and my husband stayed up all night and watched utub to keep himself awake, for fear of not hearing the baby!

And in all honesty...I would never let my kids out of my site until they are 2 years old for more than a couple of hours. I left my oldest when she was 11 months old for about 3 days and it took me a week for her to give me my first hug!

I agree with previous posts. If your breastfeeding, the judge won't take your kid away at night. With that said, I would be breastfeeding until the kids was 3 years old just to not have any sleep overs until then...then maybe you can send him over for potty training(lol)!

Good luck!

Pump! You will be so grateful later that your son has bonded with his father. Breastfeeding is wonderful, and it's terrific that you are committed to it, but you don't have to stop feeding your son well, to nurture his well being in other ways. Your ex needs this time to bond. Heck, if he's willing to get up all night with an infant, PLEASE let him. This sacrifice on your part is a HUGE gift for your son's future. I know it's hard to share, but take the chance for your son's sake. You will have to put your child's needs first on this one, and try to find positives to help you get through it. A child should never have to be away from their mother, but it happens all the time, and this is your chance to have some control over the timing. I also think I speak for more than a few new moms, who would appreciate being able to sleep during the night a couple of nights a week.

Wow, you have received a LOT of advice, C.. You will sort through this and come to a decision that is right for you and your baby. I absolutely do not think you are being selfish or hard in this situation. My 18 month old is still not ready to night wean. You need support from moms who have been there. La Leche League has a legal department that can support you and give you guidance through a leader. Please contact them. Their web address is www.llli.org - you can find a general 800 # there, or, if you go to your specific state, a number for a local leader. They are available to help you. Some people were right, a judge may not be swayed by breastfeeding, so you are going to need to find a doctor that supports you (and believes in nighttime nursing!), an IBCLC that supports you, and a lawyer who supports you and truly believes this is in the best interest of the child. You will not be able to sleep through the night as one mommy earlier indicated, because you will have to wake up and pump. If and when you do have to send your baby to daddy for nights, you will need to make sure your ex is on the same page you are as far as nighttime parenting goes. If he's all for CIO and you respond immediately to cries, there are huge mixed signals for baby. Call LLL and get some help navigating this. It sounds like you are trying to be a responsible, caring mom. Keep up the good work and good luck!

H.

Oh no! You are not being too hard!! I just recently went through a divorce and I have a 11 month old baby. He is still nursing and there is NO WAY that he'll be able to spend the nights with his father. I wouldn't let him go until he's at least two or three-overnight that is.

This is about the child and all of your decisions have to be based on their welfare. It would traumatize an infant to be away from his mother for more than even several hours, let alone over night. This is not in the best interest of the child and any professional helping you, if you seek that route, will tell you that also. If the father wants to come over every other night or afternoon for a visit that would be a much better solution. Or, let him take the baby for a few hours to give you a break, but get that baby back to his mother. You are EVERYTHING to your baby. Stick to your motherly instincts!! Especially during this difficult time, your baby will seek comfort from you and this will come by nursing. Even though they are little, they can sense the turmoil and change in the home. Give your baby plenty of love and reassurance.

A friend of ours had this very same problem. The courts decided he could not have overnights until she was done breastfeeding. Unfortunately, the ex held this over him and breastfed until the child was 2.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, but make sure he gets to spend some quality time with his son too.

C.:

Yes, I do think you're being a little too hard about the whole situation. You can always pump your milk for the nights your son is w/ his dad, if that's what you're worried about. You should be happy that your ex fiancee wants to have his son for a few nights! There are a lot of dads out there who aren't there for their kids. It sounds like your son's dad wants to be there in his son's life. When I had my son (who is almost 7), his dad wasn't around when he was a baby. So, to hear your story it sounds like you may be a bit selfish w/ allowing your son to be w/ his dad for a few nights. You should consider yourself lucky that your son's dad wants to be there!!

make it a pain in the ___ for dad. Go over there and nurse him, he needs that unless he is sleeping through the night.

I am starting to get a divorce, state laws in Utah (I don't know where you are) says that my one year old doesn't have to have any over nights with her dad, she is too young. baby's that age, especially nursing babies, need thier mothers. I would look into what the state guidelines are for custody. I found Utahs and the state courts website, I'm sure most states have something like that. hope this helped

The responses to this post really got to me because I've lived through this very situation. Guess what? My ex got his visits because the courts didn't care about breastfeeding. I hate to be a downer but if it's not unsafe for your ex to be with you I would seriously consider a roomate type situation at least on dad's days so you can nurse as needed until your son is weaned. If both of you are thinking of the babies best interest it won't be a problem but obviously there are some ex's that just don't care what is good for the kids. The courts look at parenting skills but if your ex hasn't done something horrible to your baby, the court will assume he is a good parent and most likely assume the standard visitation schedule. Just be happy it isn't the whole weekend he's asking for. Sadly my son was bottle fed after 4 months because the stress of the divorce was just too much for both of us.

I believe that you are being perfectly reasonable and no judge out there would take a baby from a breastfeeding mom overnight and if the father does not respect that only has himself in mind and is selfish! I think that if you were willing to let him come over anytime (reasonably) to see his son and are willing to take him for visits, you are doing a great job. You need to be there at all times because you are the only one with the needed equipment for feedings! Good luck and don't give up on this you are 199% right!

I'm so sorry this must be such a hard thing for you. You are hearing conflicting advice. For me it would be so horrible to be away from my children. I couldn't even stay away from my 1st until my 2nd was almost born and my husband finally convinced me to get away for a night with him. Right now I am finishing up work and will soon be a stay at home Mom, but I have had to pump for both of my little ones, and that is not the easiest thing to do, worth it, but not easy. At night I imagine it would be even harder. It is much easier to get up for a crying baby than for a pump. I don't think you are being selfish, I mean really how can it be selfish to want to take care of your child. You are in an unfortunate situation and I am sure you are full of pain. Children are a blessing, maybe sometimes they come because of mistakes or accidents (not that I am saying that is your situation), but a mistake that God himself lets happen. God has entrusted you with this child. He will get you through this. All you have to do is turn to him and turn it over to him. He will let you know what is best for your child. Again I am sorry.

You are not being unreasonable and can definitely find the research to support the importance of breast milk (including a recent study that showed breast milk without any formula supplementation raises IQ--use science to support the biological need you feel). I agree with the other mommy to make sure the baby has quality time with his dad and you can be reasonable by stocking dad's freezer with breast milk for times when your son is with him, maybe buy him a thermo "lunch" so that he can bring breast milk on the go with him. Hang in there, you're fighting for something important. If it doesn't go the way you're hoping for, remember that above all, your son needs your love. You're obviously a great mommy and he's going to be okay. Best of luck!

No way would I let my 4 month old baby be away from me for a whole night. Tough luck for dad.

I personally believe it is ABSOLUTELY VITAL for a nursing baby to spend nights (while still nursing) with mom. You and he are still figuring each other out, still working on the bond necessary for continued successful breastfeeding, and introducing a bottle at this point could make breastfeeding more difficult. If your fiancee also wants the best for your son he should see that this is absolutely the best way to go. Perhaps you could compromise with days, though, to help even it out. That way your son gets equal special, bonding time with both parents in this difficult time for all of you. Good luck!

C.,
I agree with you that a 4 month breastfeeding baby may be too young for overnights. It is certainly not developmentally appropriate for an infant to be away from a nursing mother for 3 consecutive nights, and passing the baby back and forth is very disruptive. Hiring a CFI can at least allow an objective third party to be involved - have you considered a mediator instead? less expensive and less intrusive - you and your former fiance would both have to submit to testing and psychological evaluation, including interviews with friends, etc, with a CFI.

As a child and family psychologist myself, I know how very difficult this time will be and I'm sorry your former partner is not being responsible about the best interests of your child. Please feel free to write to me privately if you have more questions.

take care

I have looked all over for Colorado's version of this and can't find it. I am sure that your attorney will know though.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE30/htm/30_03_003505.htm

What I was going to add is... My husband and I both have ex's and all the children from our previous marriages live here with us. His ex is a particular kind of beast and even though we try to work with her, sometimes she lets her alligator mouth overrun her parakeet ass. This is when instead of working with her, we follow the visitation shedule to the letter. When she is easygoing and truly has the best intrest of the children at heart, we pretty much let the kids come and go as they please between the two homes.

I'm sure that most people would agree that the breastfeeding is much more important. I realize your fiance wants his fair share, but honestly, my husband hasn't done full nighttime care of my 12 month old yet. We are just at the place that I would feel comfortable with that. Realize I lean toward overly attachment parenting style, but I think you should go with your instincts as a mother every time.
If I was in your (impossible!) position, I would be pushing strongly for visits in the daytime, even if it means an extra visit day, with a move toward overnights when your son is an older baby and you are ready to night wean (which may just happen when he's with dad!).

You two need to put YOUR issues aside and put the child first. Of course, babies need their mamas. But they also need their dadas. I think the first thing you should invest in is a marriage counselor. I think the best thing for the baby is for his parents to be together. But, I know nothing about your history or your relationship. All fairness considered, I don't see why the baby can't spend overnight with dad. If you are breastfeeding, you can pump and send bottles for dad to feed the baby. Your baby needs consistency and routine. Going back and forth between two houses isn't good --- in my opinion. You and your partner have a lawyer representing each of you. Your baby needs an advocate. This situation makes me sad. For the baby's sake, I hope you work out something good for him.

I think you are right on. Even when the father is at home with the baby the mother still spends more time caring for the infant.

do you have your baby trained on the bottle? try to explain that your boy eats throughout the night if he still does. i would have a very hard time with that. i'll pray for you. good luck!

You are not being unreasonable! Some states even have laws that breastfeeding Moms must have their children at night. Check into it and see if your state has that law! If not, many judges rule for breastfeeding mothers anyway.

Hi C.,

My heart goes out to you. Your fiance is nuts taking a 4 month old baby away from his mommy overnight. That's an outrage. Have you considered contacting the media in your area. Most lawyers are required to take on some legal work pro bono. You never know - this might make an attorney in your area as riled up as we are all.

I think there is some excellent advice below concerning legal aid from La Leche, mediators, etc. I just wanted you to know how many moms are behind you and wishing the best for you and your sweet little boy. Don't you give in without a fight!!!

We're rooting for you!

It will be hard, but he has as much right to your son as you do. Pump bottles to send with him. Sons, especially, need Fathers in their lives. Don't deny your son of a Father because you're selfish.

What kind of man wants a 4-month-old all night?? Is he nuts? Does he have any idea how much work that will be? It's not like the baby is "fun" for a sleepover at this age.

That said, of course you should not allow your BREASTFEEDING INFANT to be anywhere away from you during the night. I would fight this with everything in my being if it were me.

One last thing: How sad that the two of you have separated. I think you should do all you can to work on being together for the sake of your child who needs a married mom and dad to raise him and give him the best possible chance in life.

Hi C.,
Don't second guess yourself. You do know what is best for your baby. This has a little to do with brest feeding but more to do with overall stability and well being. Babies need to live in one home and sleep in one bed. The father can visit at all other hours of the day but over nights need to always be with the primary care giver. In my opinion babies shouldn't have overnights until they are almost 2 years old but. I have been divorced since my youngest was 3 years old so I know ther is nothing easy about a situation where the parents live in seperate places but try to think only of the baby now. What does the baby have to gain from sleeping over at his father's house at this age? The only gain is for the father and as hard as that is, it isn't fair or healthy for your son.
Good luck to all of you. I hope you find a solution,
B.

I went through a seperation when my son was 6 months old and I was not breast feeding at this time. The judge didn't even consider overnights with his dad because he said a child at this age needed to be with his mother. The ex was not happy about it but he didn't dare argue with the judge. Actually the judge would not even consider overnights until my son was at least a toddler. I would fight it if I were you. I am grateful that my son did not have to be away from me at such a time. He is now 6 years old and sees his dad every other Saturday. Everything worked out and I was able to have the special bond with him as a baby that I feel is so important and I'm sure your lawyer as the judge will feel the same way.
Good Luck
D.

Jennifer, if Daddy loves his son, he canNOT take his boy away from mommy at this age for three days. The little one is attached to mommy like mommy is his entire world. It will result with the baby becoming nervous and scared and unhappy which may go into the years of problems.
My suggestion: talk nicely, do not start a WWIII with him, as you have many years of communication coming ahead, BUT
tell him that HE (daddy) need to go to the counselor, and/or children's psychologist/psychiatrist and ask this very question, better even ask from several doctors: he will be convinced.
Tell him it is NOT your whim and wish not to let dad and son communicate, but it is a serious matter for the baby.
Your milk in the bottle does not replace your presence which is a must for a baby until 2-3 years old !!! and if all is well with dad, and a boy is safe and happy there, then overnights would be fine.
If he thinks only of his own feelings, but not the wellbeing and health of the boy, this is not right.
One more psychological detail:
In a very young age, boys are MUCH more attached to Mama,
and girls are much more attached to Daddy.
I do not know why, but this is statistics.
IT CHANGES AT THE BEGINNING OF TEENAGE:
then, boys get attached more to dads (13, maybe 9-10)
and girls communicate more to mamas.
Keep this in mind.
It will be wonderful, if your boy knows his dad and communicates with him always, but dad needs to be reasonable.

So, task number one:
you two adults need to quit warring,
sit on the peaceful ground together and say:
whatever between us, our son needs to be happy,
and we are going to make it happen!
We will consult the doctors and ask what is the very BEST
solution for our son in this situation right now,
and plan for future the BEST steps for our boy.
Your son does NOT need ot see warring parents.
The big percentage of divorces and kids living in two homes is quite normal now, and there are many happy kids
whose parents found ways to remain FRIENDS for the sake of their kids.
GO FOR IT,
good luck and all the best happy days for you three!

Then, yes. THen,

C.,
I think it could be done if you express your milk so that daddy can give it to the baby when you're not there. If you feel uneasy, maybe you need to tell your fiancee what makes you uneasy.
A..

What a difficult situation. There is good legal information at llli.org. Breastfeeding, in and of itself, does not necessarily swing a court decision. You will probably need to offer more frequent, less lengthy visits, such as daily visits of 2 1/2 hours (between feedings). Children need a primary caregiver, usually the mother, for the first five years. Check out that website, then you might hire an IBCLC (go to ilca.org) that can be an expert witness if needed. We are qualified to address breastfeeding, but also the psychological and sociological aspects, including attachment. Good luck.